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[Buggy Loop]

Unreal engine 5 was a mistake

I still haven't seen a single game on that engine that makes me go "yep, worth it for the performance you have".

The engine is a fucking hog. I hope studios keep to inhouse engines and didn't jump feet first into UE5.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Another one?

Just looks like shit to me and no one wins. Devs arsenal struggling with unreal 5 on these consoles.

We were duped.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Straight up vhs image quality on the s. PC eventually when it's dirt cheap and I've gone through a hardware upgrade lol

 

[adamsapple]

Xbox version will go on the game fly queue after starfield.

If y'all want 60 fps UE5, non cross-gen games like Fortnite, with the full feature setc...cthis kind of resolution scaling will be more common as the gen goes on.

 

[SomeGit]

Remedy doesn't have a problem with it at all.
Northlight is a deferred renderer. Quantum Break featured 4xMSAA.

They had lots of problems, there even a GDC talk where they explain their problem and solutions to it. MSAA in QB is closer to TAA than a traditional 4xMSAA.

 

[sinnergy]

Another one?

Just looks like shit to me and no one wins. Devs arsenal struggling with unreal 5 on these consoles.

We were duped.

I don’t think we are dubbed , but there is more than check some check boxes in UE5 and call it a day. (It’s pretty easy , now almost any mesh can be a nanite mesh with a checkbox on) They probably didn’t start to look at how many polygons they could push and at what resolutions , with consoles as a base … with features as nanite meshes and lumen active and no EPIC TSR. Looks more like a dev that is over it’s head , with deadline pressure.

 

[winjer]

I thought UE4 was problematic, because of it's stutters and single threaded performance limitations.
But UE5 seems to be on the way to become even worse.

 

[rsouzadk]

720p... damn man, that really sucks, and it is becoming a trending, even on console exclusives.

 

[SABRE220]

These techniques make 720p look better than early 1080p ps4 games.
For example, look at driveclub or bloodborne. 1080p aliased hell. But fsr helps with AA and resolve to higher res... to some degree.
I don't think it looks better than let's say uncharted 4 TAA image quality

Honestly even launch games like infamous second son looked far sharper than this, this image quality is not superior to the decent ps4 games at all. Even killzone shadowfall looked much sharper and it was using a form of reconstruction aswell. This is just dissapointing for post ps4 gen, I mean Im an advocate for not wasting resources on chasing high resolutions on consoles but damn the devs really went yolo mode.

 

[Esppiral]

720p... These consoles are trash... And Sony has the audicy to add a 8K sticker on the box.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Series S moving to become a PS1 demake machine.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I haven’t really been paying much attention to this game, but I does it look so amazing to justify these low resolutions?

 

[rofif]

Honestly even launch games like infamous second son looked far sharper than this, this image quality is not superior to the decent ps4 games at all. Even killzone shadowfall looked much sharper and it was using a form of reconstruction aswell. This is just dissapointing for post ps4 gen, I mean Im an advocate for not wasting resources on chasing high resolutions on consoles but damn the devs really went yolo mode.

You might take a double take. Iq was not too good before taa existed.
But games you highlighted were good looking

 

[TheRedRiders]

I don't buy it that there's too much hardware limitations, Unreal has always been historic for having a lot of overhead. I think a lot of this comes down to poor optimisation and rushed efforts.

Let's look at any great looking game from last generation, AC Odyssey comes to mind, a conservative generational leap over that in polygon count, texture resolution, animations and visual effects is enough to produce a jaw dropping game which can run comfortably on PS5 and Series X at 1440p dynamic resolution at 30 FPS or even 60.

 

[Lysandros]

It is. Tom is blind though.

He is 'very partially' blind i would say... The IQ on PS5 is noticeably better, possibly due to a higher internal resolution like some earlier reports indicated. Just another case to be added to his illustrious track record, the guy clearly chose the right career path.

 

[Darsxx82]

Xbox version will go on the game fly queue after starfield.

If y'all want 60 fps UE5, non cross-gen games like Fortnite, with the full feature setc...cthis kind of resolution scaling will be more common as the gen goes on.

There is hope that FSR 3 will be an improvement if it turns out to be as first impressions of DF anticipate. They say better IQ and 2.5X fps than FSR2. In fact Immortals is one of the first games to implement FSR3.

Maybe a patch for this console version that also has a 60fps target which is the first demand for FSR3.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I'm not even sure running on a future 5000 series GPU running this ultra max everything and 200fps could save it from the real problem. It's trying to be a graphical showcase and those just don't exist anymore.
The artstyle is great in terms of environments and allows the devs to show off some cool stuff, the problem is there's nothing to show off anymore. There are no real advancements that are any sort of jump. The fakery of these effects and methods have been bridging the gap for years by the time the real thing is here onscreen it means nothing now. Just looks fine.

5000 Series will be a game changing beast.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Unreal engine 5 was a mistake

I still haven't seen a single game on that engine that makes me go "yep, worth it for the performance you have".

The engine is a fucking hog. I hope studios keep to inhouse engines and didn't jump feet first into UE5.

I think they should use Lumen but not Nanite.

 

[Elder Legend]

TLoU2 is proprietary engine and you can see last gen and (so far) this gen devs using proprietary engines achieved better results then the ones using middle ware. TLoU1 looks better than most games released this gen and runs 1440p 70+ FPS on PS5, Ratchet and Horizon also look (and run) much better than UE4/5 games.

UE5 is a resource hog, so far it doesn't produce good results on this consoles. I completed Fort Solis on PC today, Nanite and Lumen etc. but this game doesn't look much better than UE4 games in reality, lumen also creates many artifacts with lighting AND game is heavy as fuck to run.

I am well aware of proprietary engines. My point is that it takes time for developers to be able to fully utilize and take advantage of the hardware that they're presented with inntodays case thats PS5/Series X/S. It doesn't matter if it's UE5, UE4 or custom made in-house engine. Humans are not able to perfectly create something right off the bat without putting in enough time and learning to get satisfying results.

Also, game dev budgets are getting into astronomical development costs. It's already bad as it is and making in house engines forever and ever is only going to be more pricey than ever before. I am not saying devs should strictly rely on UE5 and call it a day, but my point is that game development is going to be getting rather interesting these days and tough decisions will have to be made.

Also, there have been plenty of devs who have proved time and time again that they are masters of UE such as Rare and The Coaltion. The Coaltion has never ever had a bad track record of shitty technicalities or performance in any of the Gears of War titles. That franchises always raised the bar in visuals, especially during the 360 era and every game always had improvements in the UE side of things with every iteration. I suspect that Gears 6 will be moving the visual benchmark once again when Gears 6 hits.

As always here are my top 7 companies in no particular order that always push technicap performamce and visuals forward regardless of the engine they use:

Naughty Dog
Sony Santa Monica
The Coalition
Playground Games
Guerilla Games
Id Tech
MachineGames

There is no argument here, that these folks know what the fuck they are doing and are wizards at whatever they touch.

This particular game was made by a new indie studio that was supported by EA. This is their first title, so you have to understand, bad things will happen. I am not trying to say they are not completely at fault here, but in a case like this I think it's 50/50. Either EA rushed them out for $$$, but it's quite obvious they needed more or they simply lack skill.

 

[pepodmc_]

I cannot comprehend that EA (via EA Partners) financed this shit but refuses to bankroll a new Burnout or a remaster of Tiberian Sun. Life is so fucking unfair.

because they are very stupid

 

[DaGwaphics]

I just question the need for some of the technology, tbh. If you are going to go all out, try and do something that looks like it is doing that. The UE5 demos have been impressive, in some ways even Fortnite is. This, I'm not sure.

But, at least it is another 60fps example. Although I'd say it also makes a case for including a 30fps quality mode.

But, at the end of the day, UE5 was meant to make dev's jobs easier and considering this is a smaller dev it probably worked for them. I don't think you can judge UE5 on these consoles until some of the big studios with a history of quality visuals get to work doing something with it.

 

[shamoomoo]

Holy f..., the Series S resolution....

I don't know why,but the GameCube being there made me chuckle.

 

[Fbh]

but i thought you guys wanted 60fps everywhere? careful what you wish for

not every developer has the time and resources of first party ones, this is the 60fps future for a lot of games

Yes I want 60fps everywhere and I want decent resolution everywhere.
What I don't want are "next gen graphics" which only look marginally better than last gen games and are sending us back 15 years in terms of resolutions. Specially in games that offer no new gameplay, or physics, or interactivity and basically just play like the same stuff we've been getting for the last 10+ years

Literally none of these 720p games (Jedi Survivor, FFXVI, Remnant 2, Immortals, etc) have offered graphics or innovative gameplay that's nearly good enough to justify this laughable picture quality and performance.
We could be getting games like DOOM Eternal at native 4K locked 60fps (or like 1440p at 120fps) or God of War Ragnarok at native 1440p locked 60fps, instead we get better graphics at uneven framerates and you can't even fully appreciate them because the image looks blurry as fuck and is full of reconstruction artifacts.

 

[Lysandros]

Hmm... you seems right... I pic each screen at 4K on this video and all are

Look the hand on the bottom right

At least, maybe is DRS or 1366x768 on PS5 native resolution (wich is not great anyway), but that's explain the framerate difference.

Am i the only one seeing a difference in reflection quality on water surfaces?

 

[shamoomoo]

I might be tripping but at 13:21 the PS5 appears to have a slightly longer draw distance. Because the series consoles seem 1-to-1 but that isn't true on the PS5.

 

[Elder Legend]

I just question the need for some of the technology, tbh. If you are going to go all out, try and do something that looks like it is doing that. The UE5 demos have been impressive, in some ways even Fortnite is. This, I'm not sure.

But, at least it is another 60fps example. Although I'd say it also makes a case for including a 30fps quality mode.

But, at the end of the day, UE5 was meant to make dev's jobs easier and considering this is a smaller dev it probably worked for them. I don't think you can judge UE5 on these consoles until some of the big studios with a history of quality visuals get to work doing something with it.

The Coalition will be doing wonders with Gears 6. They always do.

 

[winjer]

Am i the only one seeing a difference in reflection quality on water surfaces?

Yes, there is.
Series S and X are not rendering SSR. But the PS5 is.
The problem is that on that scene, the Series S ran at 60 fps. The Series X at 56 fps. And the PS5 at 46 fps.

 

[Darsxx82]

Am i the only one seeing a difference in reflection quality on water surfaces?

Am I the only one who thinks that this man I'm quoting hasn't seen the video???



PS. It is only on the game home screen and XSX run at +12fps vs PS5 . During the game SSR difference does not happen.

 

[Romulus]

5000 Series will be a game changing beast.

Yeah but my point is that won't help it much more than it will help Crysis 3. Extra frames and clicking an extra box or 2 in settings.
The games are all using such similar ways to fake reality.

 

[shamoomoo]

Also, there's an additional green light missing from the Series S and PS5 at 13:22 .

 

[Killer8]

I think they should use Lumen but not Nanite.

Nah, Nanite is black magic. Zero LOD pop-in when using it.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I think they should use Lumen but not Nanite.

I can see them wanting to use it for the level of detail it provides, but maybe scaling back a bit on the amount of geometry they want to feature would be best if the overall image was sharper as a result.

 

[March Climber]

but i thought you guys wanted 60fps everywhere?

careful what you wish for

not every developer has the time and resources of first party ones, this is the 60fps future for a lot of games

I don’t care. I’ll take 60fps at whatever low resolution they give me.

 

[AtomicStarving]

 

[twilo99]

Imagine if Starfield was built on UE5....

 

[adamsapple]

I don’t care. I’ll take 60fps at whatever low resolution they give me.

I'm sure the game looks much better in motion than it does in stills.

But there should at least have been an optional "Quality" mode at 30 FPS for the pixel-freaks.

 

[willothedog]

PS5 can't cope and tanks to 40FPS when the screen gets busy

 

[March Climber]

I'm sure the game looks much better in motion than it does in stills.

But there should at least have been an optional "Quality" mode at 30 FPS for the pixel-freaks.

I agree there should always be two modes. The important thing is that this gen is setting a trend for devs to opt for adding performance modes in games. I don’t want them to start walking it back because of a small audience of vocal whiners on social media who want their consoles to pretend to keep up with PCs graphically.

As long as performance mode becomes an industry standard I don’t care what happens next. If this gen ends up in history as the most underwhelming graphically because of that, then so be it.

 

[CrustyBritches]

720p to 4K means ‘Ultra Performance’ Mode. Not even DLSS can pull that off cleanly. DLSS can do pretty good job in ‘Performance’ mode, but FSR2 really isn’t acceptable until you get to ‘Balanced’, which would be 1270p base resolution when targeting 4K.

Now I don’t have a problem with the devs including this as an option for 60fps play as long as they also have and option for 30fps Quality mode.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

You know what? I actually want 30fps back, and for those of us with 120hz VRR screens, also add a 40fps option.

 

[skyfinch]

Series X is a beast.

 

[Gaiff]

Am i the only one seeing a difference in reflection quality on water surfaces?

Tom notes that in that particular scene, the PS5 has SSR and AO whereas the Series consoles do not. Probably explains why the SX is 22% faster despite ostensibly having the same settings and resolution.

The pixel count also appears to be accurate as they confirmed again it is 720p on both after people pointed out the clarity difference. Whatever the case, Tom should have pointed out the difference. Resolution is quite irrelevant if one image is clearly better than the other even though they share the same resolution.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Man, either you're going to have to get a seemingly PS5 Pro or definitely keep on the upgrade path with something like the x670 line of boards on the Ryzen side alongside the upgrade cycle to the newest Nvidia for this to work out for you.

The good thing is I'm on the high end and got a good future proof board but still discouraging to see that this new fancy tech costs about as much as it looks like even if Immortals looks ok but not killer.

They have to enable some toggles to find a middle ground.

This performance has been consistent since I tried the UE5 demos like the forest scenes you can try in the editor.

I got 4k60 with no logic other than some basic movement and the visuals at play. If I recall it had DLSS enabled but didn't specify which version. It also didnt have DLSS FG.

 

[Romulus]

It's hilarious that 'graphical showcase' games are 720p.

For reference the original Xbox in 2001 hardware had 720p games. Even taxing games like DooM 3 could be forced to run it native 720p with extra RAM.

 

[SidViscous]

They only mention the Series S's actual resolution once in the whole video (436p!) - but mention the PS5 running a couple of frames below Xbox consoles multiple times

Sorry but the bigger deal here is a "next generation" console running a game between 40-60fps at a 436p sub PS2 resolution, but after their Series S isn't holding next-gen back video it feels like they refuse to eat humble pie. No 2023 game should be targeting 436p, period, and DF should be calling this out.

Edit: a couple of other comparison videos spotted the PS5 is running at a higher base resolution than Xbox, too early to say who is right, but DF is getting sloppy if they missed this.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Another one?

Just looks like shit to me and no one wins. Devs arsenal struggling with unreal 5 on these consoles.

We were duped.

In truth, they are struggling with UE5 on everything.

A few days ago I looked up the PC review and benchmarks and noticed that the best a 4090 could run it at 1440p was at 80fps. A 4090... 1440p, 80fps. And thats with a CPU that is over 70% better than what's in these consoles.

Unreal.

At this point, anyone who feints being surprised or saying stuff like these consoles are underperforming... Have an agenda lol. This is clearly and Unreal problem.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

It's hilarious that 'graphical showcase' games are 720p.

For reference the original Xbox in 2001 hardware had 720p games. Even taxing games like DooM 3 could be forced to run it native 720p with extra RAM.

Technically even the PS2 can output a few select games at 1080i. GT4 is an example of this.

 

[ThatPolishGuy]

They should have stayed on Unreal Engine 4 and use TAA. 1440p @ 60fps would be so much better- even with a bit of pop-in.

Too bad, and here I thought that this game could be fun. It reminded me a bit of Dark Messiah from the first trailer...

And here we have no real improvement in graphics, nor physics and in sub-par resolution.

Now I won't even consider buying it on my PS5.

I just started building PC slowly. Maybe I will try it on sale in a year or two, that is if they even manage patch it on PC. If not, it's no buy from me.

 

[Romulus]

Technically even the PS2 can output a few select games at 1080i. GT4 is an example of this.

Yes but 1080i is a far cry from 1080p or even 720p. It's still impressive though.

 

[salva]

I do wonder how much better (if anything) FSR 3.0 would look in these situations. Well, I'm sure that's going to be the future over the next few years as more Unreal 5 games come out.
Not surprised with Series S - and I bet majority of S owners wouldn't be either. Isn't that the point of the console. Drop image quality as low as necessary to get the game to run. You buy the cheapest console you get the cheapest quality...?