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[TheDeftone]

Is DoF a technically demanding effect? Or a liberating one?

In RotTR it costs about 1-5 FPS. Depending on the scene and the setting (on vs very high), of course.

 

[belmonkey]

How is that wrong? Out of the 12GB that the Xbox One has, 9GB are actually usable and 3GB are system reserved. Even the remaining 9GB won't all go towards the GPU. That's not how it works.

I think there's also the issue of not all of the bandwidth from the APU going to the GPU portion. Not sure how much that could end up bringing bandwidth down towards a desktop GPU like the RX 580 with 256 GB/s; I just remember this graph from years ago:

 

[Trup1aya]

Nothing is free when rendering these kinds of features.

In RotTR it costs about 1-5 FPS. Depending on the scene and the setting (on vs very high), of course.

thanks. I was confused as to whether blurring parts of image made the image easier to render, since there is less clarity.

 

[c0de]

I think there's also the issue of not all of the bandwidth from the APU going to the GPU portion. Not sure how much that could end up bringing bandwidth down towards a desktop GPU like the RX 580 with 256 GB/s; I just remember this graph from years ago:

This was a problem of onion and garlic buses of PS4. It seems MS found a better way as their max bandwidth they achieved is higher in terms of percentage than what we see on this slide. It was also brought up by DF when they had a special article about anisotropic filtering problems present on PS4 while Microsoft applies 16x af to every game not specifically built for the X

 

[Colbert]

How is that wrong? Out of the 12GB that the Xbox One has, 9GB are actually usable and 3GB are system reserved. Even the remaining 9GB won't all go towards the GPU. That's not how it works.

I think there's also the issue of not all of the bandwidth from the APU going to the GPU portion. Not sure how much that could end up bringing bandwidth down towards a desktop GPU like the RX 580 with 256 GB/s; I just remember this graph from years ago:
]

This was a problem of onion and garlic buses of PS4. It seems MS found a better way as their max bandwidth they achieved is higher in terms of percentage than what we see on this slide. It was also brought up by DF when they had a special article about anisotropic filtering problems present on PS4 while Microsoft applies 16x af to every game not specifically built for the X

You may want to discuss the memory bandwidth implications here or at least you may find the information there what you looking for.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1421924&highlight=hotchips

 

[LlamaJohnson]

Since I don't (and won't for some time) have a 4K TV, I wonder how good this will look on my 1080p screen. It's gotta be much improved from the original version of the game, right?

 

[The Wise Old Man]

It's not just resolution though, the difference is pretty noticeable. Doesn't make the ps4 pro look last gen by any means but its a nice upgrade.

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

 

[nubbe]

Since I don't (and won't for some time) have a 4K TV, I wonder how good this will look on my 1080p screen. It's gotta be much improved from the original version of the game, right?

will be greatly improved since XboneX downscale the 4K image to 1080p, for all games

 

[Trup1aya]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

Are you being serious?

 

[Synth]

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

You're joking, right?

If I were a mod, I'd forcefully change your username.

 

[c0de]

You may want to discuss the memory bandwidth implications here or at least you may find the information there what you looking for.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1421924&highlight=hotchips

I already addressed that in this thread. On page 1.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

Looks better on more powerful hardware...who would have know...

 

[Colbert]

I already addressed that in this thread. On page 1.

I know But the others didn't and I wonder why you not just redirected them there ...

 

[The Wise Old Man]

You're joking, right?

If I were a mod, I'd forcefully change your username.

No, this is serious stuff. To the layman (which is what 94% of the gaming market is) these differences are minimal at best.

We're being ram rodded with bizzare and arcane messages of vastly upgraded heat flops, engorged tesselation, and tumescent shading. We don't understand it but we all think we should be excited. It's a runaway freight train with no concrete metrics behind it.

 

[Noobcraft]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen.

This is satire right?

 

[Akai__]

I know But the others didn't and I wonder why you not just redirected them there ...

Because it's not needed.

 

[MaulerX]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

If that's all you're seeing then either your iPhone's screen is bad or you need to get your eyes checked.

 

[DonMigs85]

This is satire right?

LOL, the iPhone 7 Plus screen is just 1080p

 

[In Service]

No, this is serious stuff. To the layman (which is what 94% of the gaming market is) these differences are minimal at best.

We're being ram rodded with bizzare and arcane messages of vastly upgraded heat flops, engorged tesselation, and tumescent shading. We don't understand it but we all think we should be excited. It's a runaway freight train with no concrete metrics behind it.

No - to the layman, Lara's face looks muddy and scuffed whilst the PS4 version looks like she has filler applied heavily.

The pictures are right in front of you. I don't understand all the other technical chuff in this thread but the pictures look far superior on the X.

As to whether that's down to settings others will opine, but don't be bringing this type of bullshit to the thread.

 

[N30RYU]

One X looks better. but I'm not sure looks better enough to make ppl choose MS instead of Sony due the the exclusives of each platform.

At the end isn't about if you can or not play a game 4K natively... is about if that game is gonna even be released on your console.

 

[etta]

One X looks better. but I'm not sure looks better enough to make ppl choose MS instead of Sony due the the exclusives of each platform.

At the end isn't about if you can or not play a game 4K natively... is about if that game is gonna even be released on your console.

True dat bro, Digital Foundry should get into the business of analyzing exclusives instead of this tech analysis shit.
And controllers and friends lists while you’re at it, too, Digital Foundry.

 

[Christocolus]

True dat bro, Digital Foundry should get into the business of analyzing exclusives instead of this tech analysis shit.
And controllers and friends lists while you’re at it, too, Digital Foundry.

Lol

 

[Fredrik]

No - to the layman, Lara's face looks muddy and scuffed whilst the PS4 version looks like she has filler applied heavily.

The pictures are right in front of you. I don't understand all the other technical chuff in this thread but the pictures look far superior on the X.

As to whether that's down to settings others will opine, but don't be bringing this type of bullshit to the thread.

He's just joking, checking what's the deal with a 4K difference on an iPhone screen is a bit difficult when the resolution is low and the screen is small.
But to be fair, the mainstream will probably do exactly this and that's one of many problems MS is facing now.

 

[Head.spawn]

Just to support this statement - yes, I regularly provide persona opinions about games in these videos. If I'm passionate about a game it's definitely going to shine through. It's been that way since we started doing video in this style.

Also to clarify the settings - XOX is using the native 4K here so the PS4 capture was made using the 4K resolution mode (CB 4K). The PC version was captured at 2160p using settings beyond Very High preset.

Native 4K mode is missing some features on XOX. Tessellation is only enabled when using enriched mode, for instance, and you don't get VXAO or other high-end PC features.

I think it's simply a case of Nixxes going back and creating even higher quality assets for the XOX version which takes advantage of the extra memory. I also fully expect depth of field to return in the final version. I think it's pretty neat that they're going back to the game to further refine the presentation.

Remember that this is just a preliminary thing - once we have the final hardware it'll be possible to examine this much more closely.

I'd be pumped if they added an optional VXAO mode in the game, that gives a nice look even though it hits pretty hard at performance. You should totally hit Nixxes up and ask if they plan on adding it. It'd be nice to turn on for pictures/screenshots, but I think it hits so hard it'd be hard to include with a tuned performance mode on PC (10-12fps hit from my experience when I tried it).

 

[AndyD]

Looks really good. It's about time to end the 4k is not different arguments we've been hearing since the Pro came out. Checkerboard is a step up, then native 4k another step up if the devs do it right.

 

[Gurish]

Can anyone explain me this comparison? I mean the Pro and the PC can't render some dirt and dried blood on Lara's face? why are those details absent on those platforms than?

 

[etta]

Can anyone explain me this comparison? I mean the Pro and the PC can't render some dirt and dried blood on Lara's face? why are those details absent on those platforms than?

Those dirt assets have been added for the X version. And the more shocking difference there is the clarity of the native 4K vs. checkerboard 4K on PS4.

I cannot. The main difference seems to be blurryness on the PS4 vs slightly sharper image on the Xbox.

But I don't see how a simple software patch couldn't easily close the gap here. If I was looking at this picture through my pair of leupold binoculars or vortex scope, all I would need to do is adjust the focus slightly until the image sharpened up perfectly. Why can't a console be told to do the same exact thing? That's why I'm dubious of these "incurable variances."

I know, right? Lazy bums.

 

[The Wise Old Man]

Can anyone explain me this comparison?/QUOTE]

I cannot. The main difference seems to be blurryness on the PS4 vs slightly sharper image on the Xbox.

But I don't see how a simple software patch couldn't easily close the gap here. If I was looking at this picture through my pair of leupold binoculars or vortex scope, all I would need to do is adjust the focus slightly until the image sharpened up perfectly. Why can't a console be told to do the same exact thing? That's why I'm dubious of these "incurable variances."

 

[Gurish]

Those dirt assets have been added for the X version. And the more shocking difference there is the clarity of the native 4K vs. checkerboard 4K on PS4.

I think that if you would add those details to the Pro version than this comparison wouldn't be so amusing and shocking as it is now.

Can anyone explain me this comparison?

I cannot. The main difference seems to be blurryness on the PS4 vs slightly sharper image on the Xbox.

But I don't see how a simple software patch couldn't easily close the gap here. If I was looking at this picture through my pair of leupold binoculars or vortex scope, all I would need to do is adjust the focus slightly until the image sharpened up perfectly. Why can't a console be told to do the same exact thing? That's why I'm dubious of these "incurable variances."

I guess that this is not how such things works mate.

 

[Bulby]

But I don't see how a simple software patch couldn't easily close the gap here. If I was looking at this picture through my pair of leupold binoculars or vortex scope, all I would need to do is adjust the focus slightly until the image sharpened up perfectly. Why can't a console be told to do the same exact thing? That's why I'm dubious of these "incurable variances."

1. The resolution is higher on the X. PS4 pro can not resolve these finer details if it isnt pushing the same amount of pixels out.

2. The X is using higher resolution assests.

 

[Frozone]

Those dirt assets have been added for the X version. And the more shocking difference there is the clarity of the native 4K vs. checkerboard 4K on PS4.

This. It's really that simple. I'm not sure why we are getting all worried about whether the PS4 Pro/PC can't do these added features due to hardware limitations. It's all in what developer wants to put their budget into with what resources at the time they are developing.

Native 4k would be a little too much for a PS4 Pro. We all knew this long ago. XboxX has the extra memory to do it. Higher res textures also costs extra memory. PC can easily do it with it's high RAM graphics cards.

 

[etta]

I think that if you would add those details to the Pro version than this comparison wouldn't be so amusing and shocking as it is now.

This. It's really that simple. I'm not sure why we are getting all worried about whether the PS4 Pro/PC can't do these added features due to hardware limitations. It's all in what developer wants to put their budget into with what resources at the time they are developing.

Native 4k would be a little too much for a PS4 Pro. We all knew this long ago. XboxX has the extra memory to do it. Higher res textures also costs extra memory. PC can easily do it with it's high RAM graphics cards.

Well hold on, we don’t know if there was room left for the Pro VRAM to handle the extra textures.
PC yea of course.

 

[GHG]

I still don't understand why the PC shots are so blurry in comparison. Has that been explained?

Apologies if it has, this is a long thread.

 

[Mohasus]

Can anyone explain me this comparison?

Someone smeared vaseline on the PS4 Pro screenshot.

 

[belvedere]

Those dirt assets have been added for the X version. And the more shocking difference there is the clarity of the native 4K vs. checkerboard 4K on PS4.


I know, right? Lazy bums.

Actually DF specifically said the CB vs native difference wouldn't be obvious in motion.

 

[Crayon]

I still don't understand why the PC shots are so blurry in comparison. Has that been explained?

Apologies if it has, this is a long thread.

It's apparently a sensitive subject. We are divided between "dont know" and "pretending it's not there". Dark said it's not dof and not motion blur.

 

[ethomaz]

The Pro obvious will lead look worst than X but something is not right when PC is not showing the same details and clarity of X.

Peharps PC version is not using the same X patch that makes the comparison a bit useless for IQ discussion.

 

[GHG]

It's apparently a sensitive subject. We are divided between "dont know" and "pretending it's not there". Dark said it's not dof and not motion blur.

Well it does look a little odd, unless it's purely down to texture resolution.

Do we have any screenshots from PC GAF in the same spot for comparison?

 

[Frozone]

Well hold on, we don’t know if there was room left for the Pro VRAM to handle the extra textures.
PC yea of course.

The extra VRAM isn't just in the textures. For most graphics engine that use deferred lighting/shading, you are looking at multiple native 4k buffers being rendered off-screen. While it's independent of screen complexity, it IS dependent on frame buffer resolution.

 

[Frozone]

The Pro obvious will lead look worst than X but something is not right when PC is not showing the same details and clarity of X.

Peharps PC version is not using the same X patch that makes the comparison a bit useless for IQ discussion.

The PC didn't have the updated assets. It's quite clear that Nixxes did the extra assets for the contract on making the XboxX version.

 

[ethomaz]

The PC didn't have the updated assets. It's quite clear that Nixxes did the extra assets for the contract on making the XboxX version.

So we are comparing Apple to Oranges here... well I remember the same happened with TR 2013 and PC never got the patch with new graphic/details added.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

It will be interesting to see if upcoming games get this treatment too. So that would mean higher resolution textures on X and also resolution differences in games like ACO, Battlefront 2 because man that picture of the three Lara faces is a big difference and certainly not only the dried up dirt and blood on her face.

 

[mrklaw]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

DF don’t specify their setups in detail every time, but from past experience I’m sure they closed excel on the PS pro before doing these captures

 

[Octavia]

On the PC side, it really looks like there's some kind of extra post AA like FXAA active, which will ruin fine texture details like the light reflections on her skin.

I can't read this whole thread but maybe the dirt on her face could be dynamic?

 

[MilkyJoe]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

"the blind old man"

 

[univbee]

I still don't understand why the PC shots are so blurry in comparison. Has that been explained?

Apologies if it has, this is a long thread.

The XB1X version has higher-resolution (and in some cases, like with the dirt/blood on Lara's face, actually changed) textures, it's not JUST running the same assets that were available in 2015 at a higher rendering resolution. This also translates to PC, as its assets were likewise finalized for early 2016, where gaming in 4K and preparing assets for that purpose wasn't really a thing yet, and other than the Titan X I think the most VRAM you could get on a card was maybe 6 gigs?

The PS4 doesn't have these either for a few reasons. It doesn't really have a RAM increase that could really use higher-resolution assets, and also 4K textures require a lot of space; by way of comparison, Fallout 4 on PC added 4K textures as a later optional download, adding 58 gigs to the already quite large base game.

I'd say it's likely (although nothing has been stated officially about this) that 4K textures could be offered up as a free optional download on PC at least on Steam, which would require a new comparison and probably be a very different conclusion, I'd expect there to be almost no difference on static shots between the X1X and PC versions in that case other than perhaps some extremely minute, barely-perceptible differences, with the PC version still being considered the "better" version with support for G-Sync and the like. I'd be surprised if the PS4 version got much of a changeup, though.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It will be interesting to see if upcoming games get this treatment too. So that would mean higher resolution textures on X and also resolution differences in games like ACO, Battlefront 2 because man that picture of the three Lara faces is a big difference and certainly not only the dried up dirt and blood on her face.

It's possible, but I doubt you'll see this specific sort of thing across the board (particularly with games like Battlefront 2, where Sony has the marketing).

 

[cackhyena]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

Lol is this for real?

 

[cyen]

Any idea when the next videos are posted?

 

[Colbert]

"the blind old man"

"without glasses"

Any idea when the next videos are posted?

Soon™.