"Slightly better effects"
Lmao
Man, I'm so jealous that you are able to do this when it's not working for us.Random ass post looking at Lara in leather. PC with DoF disabled, SMAA.
Might even be 4 stages of roughed up and may depend on the outfit. I tried the red expedition jacket and couldn't get Lara to show any cuts or marks, maybe idea is the tough jacket keeps her from getting marked?
If you took the time to read why I fucking got the Pro...the "extra effect" were a bonus to my shitty ps4. If you didn't have a Ps4 before i would recommend it just for the HD size.For some they felt the Pro was worth the upgrade
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227606293
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227209987
Right. I'm entitled to make adjustments to my decisions. Completely overprotective in their future investments.Pixelbox has the benefit of hindsight having owned a Pro now for some time to be able to come to that conclusion. People are allowed to change their mind without being castigated for it
Some people on here may feel the same way in the future about the 1x in that way.
I think those coming from OG Xbox One or std PS4 will see the jump, more than those coming from the Pro.
Microsoft, when they get their act together, provide some fabulous development tools. From multiple developer accounts it appears they have pulled out all the stops and made a decent SDK for the 1x, which is extremely easy to develop for. Hence the accounts of having games up and running in a few hours @ 4k etc.
If the image on the left is only slightly better... ah **k-it not even worth it lol.
Every DF thread will become a mega thread from here on out.
If you took the time to read why I fucking got the Pro...the "extra effect" were a bonus to my shitty ps4. If you didn't have a Ps4 before i would recommend it just for the HD size.
I'm excited to see what they do with future games. I want add, i was against the whole idea but now i see this as like the PC arena where all games will run but if you can afford it, you get the same game with refined visuals.
Damn, an actual accurate summary of this thread without a hidden agenda behind it.Seeing the discussion here I don't see a bloodbath at all.
To me it seems it is accepted that the X1X beats the PS4 Pro which should be the case just by the better specs on every aspect. The back and forth we see here is particularly about the X1X and PC comparison which honestly is quite amusing. The take away for me is (I repeat myself again) that with some work the X1X can get close to those highest PC settings which is great!
I'm nearsighted. When I take off my glasses, the image on the right is what the world looks like to me.
So so, I mean it's pretty evident it's better in Resolution when zoomed in but we've been through this before with the original Pro release vs PC, and even John said in that analysis the CB effects was the only tell sign when zoomed in.If the image on the left is only slightly better... ah **k-it not even worth it lol.
I did the Chapter Replay, you just need to ruff Lara up a bit, a few fire arrows to the ground and throwing her in it does the job.Man, I'm so jealous that you are able to do this when it's not working for us.
It has to be the save game thing versus using the Chapter Replay feature.
Man, it's not that simple. We tried it all. Blowing up everything possible and taking her right to death's door. The decals are there during gameplay but always disappear during the cutscenes. We spent two hours on it. Never worked even one time no matter what on PC. It's broken for us.So so, I mean it's pretty evident it's better in Resolution when zoomed in but we've been through this before with the original Pro release vs PC, and even John said in that analysis the CB effects was the only tell sign when zoomed in.
1.1 picture is not as dramatic and will just be sharper overall picture which will likely be most noticeable side by side, I even didn't know what was improved originally
I just knew the PC and Pro version looked off in the comparison.
For people who have played the game on Pro I don't think this title if worth the upgrade, especially if they played the original on Xbox One and upgraded to Pro, a 3rd time a minor upgrade to one game?
For anyone with a Xbox One and is getting a Xbox One X and has never played it it's definitely worth a look, especially at it's current price.
I don't know, but thats my opinion, not sure what other people think
I did the Chapter Replay, you just need to ruff Lara up a bit, a few fire arrows to the ground and throwing her in it does the job.
A bug perhaps?Man, it's not that simple. We tried it all. Blowing up everything possible and taking her right to death's door. The decals are there during gameplay but always disappear during the cutscenes. We spent two hours on it. Never worked even one time no matter what on PC. It's broken for us.
Thats interesting, wonder if the IQ would be Improved on Pro without it enabled, although I think the game looks great but I've got a 1080p screen so.From the next bit of the scene Lara is closer and well in the foreground but enabling DoF still blurs image.
I'd expect DoF to be in the final code, would be silly without it unless they want dat 4kness and it does look beautiful and also removes the gamey looking edges to bring a filmic like quality.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116044
Liabe Brave trying to spread that FUD as per usual, only to get proven utterly wrong by the man himself.
Welp.
Liliana Eileen solely interested in tedious ad hominems as per usual, only to get proven utterly wrong by the man himself.Oh no, he's OK. We don't have any footage to analyze. I'm just reporting in the demo I played. I provided Pro comparisons with FPS data in the video. It's still very early to judge performance.
Fair enough. The One X may well have twice the effective memory bandwidth of the standard PS4. My metanoia is unjustified then. But I think it's clear that SenjutsuSage's original claim, that One X bandwidth is more than double Pro's, is false.PS4 bandwidth: just below 140 according to
http://wccftech.com/sony-ps4-effective-bandwidth-140-gbs-disproportionate-cpu-gpu-scaling/
Xbox One X bandwidth: 285 according to http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=246627704
There is no sense in comparing the theoretical maximum.
Resolution is more refined, and textures are improved, but what effects are higher in that same mode? This isn't a rhetorical question, I honestly don't recall DF mentioning any.What MS did with Xbox One X allows devs to do a whole lot. Look at RoTR with not just native 4k, but with higher textures and effects.
Liliana Eileen solely interested in tedious ad hominems as per usual, only to get proven utterly wrong by the man himself.
Yep.
Fair enough. The One X may well have twice the effective memory bandwidth of the standard PS4. My metanoia is unjustified then. But I think it's clear that SenjutsuSage's original claim, that One X bandwidth is more than double Pro's, is false.
Resolution is more refined, and textures are improved, but what effects are higher in that same mode? This isn't a rhetorical question, I honestly don't recall DF mentioning any.
If you took the time to read why I fucking got the Pro...the "extra effect" were a bonus to my shitty ps4. If you didn't have a Ps4 before i would recommend it just for the HD size.
Right. I'm entitled to make adjustments to my decisions. Completely overprotective in their future investments.
They cannot mention it, as they do not know. They have access to the same press shots that went out and I have also. It is too soon to be judging micro facets of materials, decals and such from realtime cutscenes without being able to line then up and even then with variations possible you have to account for.Resolution is more refined, and textures are improved, but what effects are higher in that same mode? This isn't a rhetorical question, I honestly don't recall DF mentioning any.
Wasn't really directed towards you, but since we're here why don't you quote the entire post. I used words like quality of life console and refined effects. I really don't see how those statements leaning towards a bias, which I'm being low key accused of. I even mentioned the 5ghz wifi card over it's graphics. I still stick to what i said; if it weren't for the extra perks I would not have gotten the Pro. It's the sum of all it's parts.I read it.
Now sure, you're entitled to make changes to your opinion on the worth of a more expensive console for better graphics, but it's hardly a case of lack of reading that would draw the conclusion that you'd consider the "refined visuals" to be something that would justify additional cost. And it's not like the XB1X lacks the sort of misc upgrades that you'd otherwise cite as making the PS4 Pro a worthwhile purchase.
And I wouldn't say that developers "barely use" the additional resources afforded by the PS4 Pro... rather the 2x performance (and almost no additional memory) doesn't scale very well once aspirations for 4k output enter the equation. It also has a problem with consistency, with stuff like supersampling being up in the air across different titles and boost mode initially not being an option (and being more limited in improvements vs XB1X's equivalent).
here lets see if Gaf can tell me what this is
vs
can you see the blocky effect on the jacket and her hair and edges
you can also see it here on the grenade
what is that? and this is from the same cutscene.
Oh no doubt, naturally. But like Pro, the effort i fear will be the issue.
Resolution isn't refined, it's doubled than what pro produces. 4K native requires double the pixels to be rendered in real time compared to cb using previous rendered frame to add in to the rest. Then you have Enhanced mode that pro only capable of 1080p while the Xbox One X pushes out 4k cb. Other effects such as the hair fx was seen to be improved.
I wonder how Enhanced mode fairs compared to pro on the effects used
here lets see if Gaf can tell me what this is
vs
can you see the blocky effect on the jacket and her hair and edges
you can also see it here on the grenade
what is that? and this is from the same cutscene.
Yeah it'll be interesting to see how the console is taken advantage of.
Problem is you can't talk about the game like all modes are rolled up into one. Before you talked about higher resolution and higher quality effects as if they are both accomplished at the same time.
I'm only viewing this from my phone at the moment but could it be artifacts from CBR? Either that or poor coverage of the AA.
You consistently misrepresent the CBR process, no matter how many times people correct you. Native 4K does not have double the resolution of 2160c, period. It is the exact same number of pixels. The difference is that with CBR, the game tries to retain (but reposition) pixels that haven't changed value since the last frame. If it wholly succeeds, the results are literally identical to native 4K. In usual practice, some of the retained pixels should have been changed, leading to inaccuracies in the image.Resolution isn't refined, it's doubled than what pro produces. 4K native requires double the pixels to be rendered in real time compared to cb using previous rendered frame to add in to the rest.
Here, on the other hand, you're maybe underselling what One X is doing. In enhanced mode it's rendering four times the resolution as Pro (though only twice as much at the same accuracy), in addition to other improvements.Then you have Enhanced mode that pro only capable of 1080p while the Xbox One X pushes out 4k cb. Other effects such as the hair fx was seen to be improved.
The most rational expectation is that most of the effects will be turned up further (better resolve, stronger, more accurate, etc.). It's just a question of which ones, and how much.I wonder how Enhanced mode fairs compared to pro on the effects used
Okay, thanks.They cannot mention it, as they do not know. They have access to the same press shots that went out and I have also. It is too soon to be judging micro facets of materials, decals and such from realtime cutscenes without being able to line then up and even then with variations possible you have to account for.
From the next bit of the scene Lara is closer and well in the foreground but enabling DoF still blurs image.
I'd expect DoF to be in the final code, would be silly without it unless they want dat 4kness and it does look beautiful and also removes the gamey looking edges to bring a filmic like quality.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116044
can't be AA as it effects even the texture on the jacket and the scarf, if you look it seems lower res and a bit pixelated lack of AA wouldnt do that, the blocky edges it would.Them are called Pixels, or "Jaggies"... The process to smooth them out is called "Anti-aliasing".
Anti-aliasing was most noticeable on the N64 in 96", right around when the process started taking form, which took away the Jaggies but blurred the heck out of every outline in the game. They have gotten much better since them days, but to answer your question, yes, them Jaggies are not "anti-aliased"!
I'm wondering that too, but I've never seen CB artifacting beforeYeah it'll be interesting to see how the console is taken advantage of.
Problem is you can't talk about the game like all modes are rolled up into one. Before you talked about higher resolution and higher quality effects as if they are both accomplished at the same time.
I'm only viewing this from my phone at the moment but could it be artifacts from CBR? Either that or poor coverage of the AA.
You consistently misrepresent the CBR process, no matter how many times people correct you. Native 4K does not have double the resolution of 2160c, period. It is the exact same number of pixels. The difference is that with CBR, the game tries to retain (but reposition) pixels that haven't changed value since the last frame. If it wholly succeeds, the results are literally identical to native 4K. In usual practice, some of the retained pixels should have been changed, leading to inaccuracies in the image.
Clever approximations like this are used all over the shop in realtime rasterization. Sometimes they're effective, and in other situations not. Dismissing any of them out of principle just because they're not 100% precise isn't reasonable. To be consistent you'd also have to reject AO, SSR, 2D billboards, some AA methods, etc. etc.
Here, on the other hand, you're underselling what One X is doing. In enhanced mode it's rendering four times the resolution as Pro (though only twice as much at the same accuracy), in addition to other improvements.
The most rational expectation is that most of the effects will be turned up further (better resolve, stronger, more accurate, etc.). It's just a question of which ones, and how much.
Okay, thanks.
and that is another example why DoF, motion blur, chromatic aberration, FXAA, etc, can all burn in hell...
TXAA and chromatic aberration can burn in hell...
The DF Battlefront 2 thread is going to be really bad isn't it?
Cause they are? Native 4k or 4k cb with ultra textures
What MS did with Xbox One X allows devs to do a whole lot. Look at RoTR with not just native 4k, but with higher textures and effects.
I'm wondering that too, but I've never seen CB artifacting before
I'm gonna have to agree, while the overall picture looks good enough to be 4k the detail isn't there compared to Native 4k as evident by zooming in.Again when speaking of what the engine renders in REALTIME checkerboarding renders a scene using HALF the pixels. It FILLS in the rest using the previous frame.
There's a reason why checkerboarding is LESS demanding than rendering an entire scene NATIVELY
lol I'm not dismissing it's a great rendering technique but no way matches native in technical rendering requirements
It's a technical fact
The DF Battlefront 2 thread is going to be really bad isn't it?
Wasn't really directed towards you, but since we're here why don't you quote the entire post. I used words like quality of life console and refined effects. I really don't see how those statements leaning towards a bias, which I'm being low key accused of. I even mentioned the 5ghz wifi card over it's graphics. I still stick to what i said; if it weren't for the extra perks I would not have gotten the Pro. It's the sum of all it's parts.
But that seemed unnecessary, as the bold would pretty much be my way of saying "look at this bit here", rather than everything else.It almost feels like a quality of life console, which i have no problems with. Originally, i got it for space as a 2 TB HD is about 70 bucks. Then i started looking at other improvements such as streaming at a higher resolution (as I am a streamer), better wifi *5ghz; which is clutch. It also runs super quiet; once again proving it's worth ad a streamer. Plus as an added bonus my games looks and plays better with more refined visuals.
It started to become really clear my desire to switch was worth it. My old ps4 was hair dryer loud, running out of space, had a crappy wifi link, and had an issue with the Power touch which would activate during a stream and end it. I'm excited to see what they do with future games. I want add, i was against the whole idea but now i see this as like the PC arena where all games will run but if you can afford it, you get the same game with refined visuals.
If the image on the left is only slightly better... ah **k-it not even worth it lol.
Why does the PS4 Pro screenshot look so blurry? Wasn't there three modes on the Pro - 1) 4k native with lower graphics. 2) CB 4k with much better graphics. 3) 1080p with unlocked framerate and low graphics for maximum framerate?
Why does the PS4 Pro screenshot look so blurry? Wasn't there three modes on the Pro - 1) 4k native with lower graphics. 2) CB 4k with much better graphics. 3) 1080p with unlocked framerate and low graphics for maximum framerate?
I didn't quote the whole post, as I figured there wasn't actually a need to, seeing as we'd both be aware of what the full post contained. I quoted the section I did to draw focus to it, as it demonstrated a specific understanding of how refined graphics carry value, even drawing a comparison with PCs where everyone is familiar with the practice of paying more for more powerful hardware in order for it to benefit from extra whizzbangs and pixels. Alternatively I could have quoted the entire post, and bolded the part I wanted to draw focus to, like this:
But that seemed unnecessary, as the bold would pretty much be my way of saying "look at this bit here", rather than everything else.
I acknowledged that whilst your purchase may not have been driven by primarily by graphics, this doesn't have a lot of bearing either way, because the XB1X similarly improves many quality of life aspects also. If a bigger HDD was all someone wanted, $70 for 2TB sounds far more reasonable than trading up for a $400 version of the same console with half that capacity. But that didn't dissuade a recommendation that someone should "Just get a pro.", because unlike here you didn't isolate a single aspect of the upgrade to dump the entire cost upon. And in the case of the XB1X, it wouldn't be "slightly better effects" (plus resolution, performance, etc) unless you had already upgraded to a PS4 Pro... otherwise you'd be coming from an XB1 or PS4, where the the term "slightly" shouldn't really be applied to pretty much any part of the improvements.
You and I know how a good amount of Neogaf members are with not researching information so just providing snippets if info can be completely misleading. Many members do it here. Additionally, I sold my Ps4 for $200 to get the Pro so I did not pay full price. Essentially, subtracting the cost of a HD, I bought the Pro for $120. And if I recall GameStop had a deal to trade in your PS4 to get a discount on the PRO. Lastly, that post was 8 months ago...8 months ago. Enough, for a trial and assessment to make my current statement. Talk about reaching. And I bet the members of this thread didn't even check the date of the post.
I'll state again I didn't direct that post to you, but I stick to my stance. If you have to zoom 200% at specific a position of a rendered frame to discern a difference in image quality, more power to you. IMO, that's not worth $500 usd. It all just seems like a pissing contest for superiority.
And let me make it clear that comment is NOT directed towards you.
The DF Battlefront 2 thread is going to be really bad isn't it?
Liliana Eileen solely interested in tedious ad hominems as per usual, only to get proven utterly wrong by the man himself.
Yep.
You and I know how a good amount of Neogaf members are with not researching information so just providing snippets if info can be completely misleading. Many members do it here. Additionally, I sold my Ps4 for $200 to get the Pro so I did not pay full price. Essentially, subtracting the cost of a HD, I bought the Pro for $120. And if I recall GameStop had a deal to trade in your PS4 to get a discount on the PRO. Lastly, that post was 8 months ago...8 months ago. Enough, for a trial and assessment to make my current statement. Talk about reaching. And I bet the members of this thread didn't even check the date of the post.
I'll state again I didn't direct that post to you, but I stick to my stance. If you have to zoom 200% at specific a position of a rendered frame to discern a difference in image quality, more power to you. IMO, that's not worth $500 usd. It all just seems like a pissing contest for superiority.
And let me make it clear that comment is NOT directed towards you.
WhewLiliana Eileen solely interested in tedious ad hominems as per usual, only to get proven utterly wrong by the man himself.
Yep.
Yes, but that's the point....The PS4 is more powerful than the XB1 and XBONEX more powerful than PRO...so could it be that PRO had a lower resolution than 4kCB in cutscenes????Vanilla PS4 is more powerful than Xbox, so I don't think that PS4 not needing to drop back to 900p is that Curious.
But yes, as has been pointed out, it's not uncommon for games to pump up the effects in cutscenes, as it's a totally controlled enviroment.
And here we go, it's undeniable that DOF blurs the entire image, with DOF added in on PRO + FXAA + a Zoom on a 4KCB shot, puts the XBONEX at huge advantage in terms of clarity, detail and sharpness....In essence, it's not close to an ideal comparison......From the next bit of the scene Lara is closer and well in the foreground but enabling DoF still blurs image.
I'd expect DoF to be in the final code, would be silly without it unless they want dat 4kness and it does look beautiful and also removes the gamey looking edges to bring a filmic like quality.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/116044