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DigitalFoundry: RotTR Xbox One X vs PS4 Pro First Look Graphics Comaprison
- Thread starter Colbert
- Start date
Seganomics
Member
I do find all this intense poring over of the details of game presentation fascinating. But as you say, it would be nice if a few of the posters that have contributed here would apply equal forensic-esque scrutiny to PS releases also, highlighting their shortcomings. Sadly that rarely seems to occur.
NXGamer
Member
Yeah, that's kind of the issue especially in this case. The higher quality textures are not always easy to see, admittedly. Someone on Twitter DEMANDED that I find the difference between the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X using a 680x383 shot which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how this works.
You can see this here. At 4K, the difference is pretty obvious right?
...but when you look at a tiny version of that image it's not exactly clear to see.
It gets much worse once heavy compression comes into play and details are smeared. Twitch is just about the worst possible place for that right now.
Wow, what has happened here is a shining example of why I only get into specific detailed comparisons when you have hands on and direct feed, you have been around this game long enough to know this would happen and expected it though right?
The X has 9Gb for apps dedicated, it will be maxing out what ever they intended with its near 3 year old launch now and that includes Pc. This is no surprise at all. I banged on about this (memory boost and bandwidth) at the reveal when I covered it on my channel and site. This will be where the biggest gaps will appear between consoles and aside framerates allow the X to deliver the highest assets from Pc, this is just what the X is all about.
Give Nintendo fans a console with hardware in the same ballpark as the current consoles, and then see how DF threads involving them go. Kinda hard to seriously argue Wii U or Switch against current gen platforms (so they just argue that the art makes the games more beautiful than anything on more powerful consoles).
I mean, were you around for the Wii U stuff before the XB1 and PS4 were revealed. There were insane amounts of crowing about XCX being a huge generation jump above anything the 360 or PS3 could put out, and many were adamant that the difference to a XB1 and PS4 would be negligible.
Dictator93
Member
Oh yeah definitely. That is though at the end just 9 GB in total for an app, and split evenly it is 4,5 / 4,5 or unevenly 3 / 6. So if a game is just generally RAM and VRAM hungry in general due to AI routines, scripts, and ALSO high res textures, you may see games having on xbx to even reduce texture resolution or get rid of displacement maps so as to be below the highest available on PC. Some games that have both rather high RAM and VRAM requirements. Deus X: MD has very high RAM and VRAM usage on my PC. I think I saw it crest 9 GB in VRAM alone @ 1080p.
NXGamer
Member
I am sure that will come in a few years, but consoles benefit from not having to copy chunks of data between pools like Pc. This will enable a much lower footprint on a like for like Pc version. If a game such as Tr here was using 3GB for game, sound, Ai etc logic I would expect that to be the absolute maximum if at all, the 6Gb~ should be sufficient for the increase we see even at a native 4K.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Yes, because only the "PlayStation Generation" has commented and looked for answers.... Many PC fans are in here and haven't said anything about the Pro.
Colbert
Banned
Imagine AC Origins face offXbox One X going to lay out a bloodbath on here
Seeing the discussion here I don't see a bloodbath at all.
To me it seems it is accepted that the X1X beats the PS4 Pro which should be the case just by the better specs on every aspect. The back and forth we see here is particularly about the X1X and PC comparison which honestly is quite amusing. The take away for me is (I repeat myself again) that with some work the X1X can get close to those highest PC settings which is great!
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Glad someone else sees that's where the majority of responses are in regards to. Hardly anyone is "fluffed" over the Pro stuff, yet, some choose to focus on that.
Anyway, gave some feedback in the wake of other people's PC shots, which has helped (at least to me). I can appreciate DF because their comparisons are always the most in-depth, I'd say. Really, if the X1X will have versions that are close to PC versions, even in a few cases, that's a bigger deal than anything else.
wumster3000
Member
PC guys have lit this thread up too.
I honestly don't get why people are surprised. What are people debating here? Xbox One X has a clear power advantage over the Pro, just like the original PS4 had one over the original Xbox One.
Texture work is going to look better and depending on the situation, games are going to render at a higher resolution. What's there to debate? Even with the DF guy here, it's still not enough.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Yeah, I agree completely. I mean, it's basically what we've known. For this game, and probably others, running on an XBOX One X is going to get us closer than any other console out at this time to either visual or performance level if not both of a reasonably decent gaming PC. Pretty good for a $500 box regardless of whether a person has reason to buy one or not.
Vanilla PS4 is more powerful than Xbox, so I dont think that PS4 not needing to drop back to 900p is that Curious.
But yes, as has been pointed out, its not uncommon for games to pump up the effects in cutscenes, as its a totally controlled enviroment.
We see character models get replaced, environments being replaced with partial sets , we see prerensered elements appearing as matte paintings, we see games swapping to higher quality textures , we see post processing switch up in quality and other stuff happening.
Weve also already identified why TGOs screenshots may appear sharper than that from a cutscene. Not that they can be compared beyond trying to identify what is missing vs the cinematic .
Its a minefield .
The only reason the cutscenes are the only bits being compared in the first place is because DF didnt have access to any footage of the gameplay that wasnt heavily compressed, so they have just been doing it from memory and from 5 released screenshots.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Colbert
Banned
That is only 16 pages? WTF! LOL
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Because in there, PC wasn't really challenged. If nothing else, it helped sell more! ;P
We all know that threads that are vaguely positive or negative about certain consoles dont gain any traction.
Thats why.
Without those threads being driveby havens or circle jerks they always fall of the front page.
I think this thread is a good example of a civil discussion that has been pretty low on trolling and the people that have been sticking out like a sore thumb.
Journey
Banned
Probably because a substantial difference between PS4 Pro and PC is expected, but when you see a substantial difference between XOX and PS4 Pro, it's a pill that's hard to swallow for most, and thus more than double the pages of bickering and defending your favorite piece of plastic, PC included.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The power difference between the pro and the x is clearly larger than the difference ever was between Xbox one and PS4. I think that will be the hardest fact for people to accept.
MilkyJoe
Member
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
To hell with civil discussion, we need to have a word about this:
50 posts per page in this day and age? Come on man!
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I don't think many people will have a hard time accepting that. After all, figures don't lie (although I'm not certain of the exact numbers). Wasn't it something like...
PS4 > Xbox One by 40%
Xbox One X > PS4 Pro by 53%
?
That's just pure gpu difference
Xbox One X 12GB 326gb/s is a significant upgrade over pro too with other improvements too
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I know some people were thinking, whoah, the X is doing this game better than the PC?!?!?. I think most everyone here knows the version to aim for is PC, and that the version to look at for top of the line possibilities is PC. The aim of consoles at this point is to get as close to PC quality as possible at a console cost. Any other scenario is delusional, and any article that says otherwise is clickbait.
Journey
Banned
Yep. It will be interesting to see how the same people that made a huge deal over minute differences will react now with substantial upgrades... this thread may just be the beginning... yikes!
I think a lot of people were wishfully hoping the difference between PS4 Pro and XOX would be a wash, but it sure doesn't look that way, the extra bandwidth and memory are proving to make a real difference at higher resolutions.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
There's more than half the amount of available ram for games on Xbox one x, the memory bandwidth available is more than double even without 100% perfect utilization. The clockspeed for the GPU will allow it to perform even better than the tflop count difference suggests because other things are enhanced as a result of that clockspeed in ways that make a further difference between the pro GPU and Xbox one x gpu.
Microsoft used that extra year pretty wisely.
Team Andromeda
Member
Me too, It's just the same as comparing the PS4 or Pro to the XBox One. There's a clear power advantage and that shows it's self. No different with the One X over the Pro. It's to be expected (and to me the bare minimum) that XBox One X multi platform games look better.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
What other improvements? The CPUs are largely the same (X1X's is a little faster). Besides the GPU and memory differences, it should be about a 53-55% difference over the Pro.
That was my thought. I couldn't believe the X had even beaten the PC (the crisp vs blurry really threw me off). I expected a considerably powerful console in the X, but not that powerful.
What other improvements? The CPU is largely the same. Besides the GPU and memory differences, it should be about a 53-55% difference over the Pro mathematically.
That was my thought. I couldn't believe the X had even beaten the PC (the crisp vs blurry really threw me off). I expected a considerably powerful console in the X, but not that powerful.
With MS running over 30,000 simulations using PIX of all the major game engines and customizing the chip to remedy bottlenecks/performance issues devs had too which is why having 4k assets added to Forza had no impact to performance
I think there are still people who assume it will be a wash as some still refuse to understand there is a difference in texture resolution.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
That doesn't really answer my question, though. The differences, that can be measured, are in the image I posted. That equates to a little over 50%. Still pretty substantial.
What this tells me is that people immediately believe that "sharper = better" but, in the world of post processing, that's not always true. I've been saying from the very start that the missing post-fx on Xbox One X would have an impact on the situation and we know that's quite true.That was my thought. I couldn't believe the X had even beaten the PC (the crisp vs blurry really threw me off). I expected a considerably powerful console in the X, but not that powerful.
Also, let's entertain the idea that new textures were added to XOX - some people would perceive that as a slight against the PC or a suggestion that XOX is somehow more powerful. That's just silly. Any additional assets would be a new thing added after the fact. It should be obvious to anyone that those assets could be added to the PC version without an issue. Missing features on PC is always down to the developer not a limitation of the platform, which everyone should understand.
In the end, though, we know that new assets were not added.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I will say, I appreciate you being so patient with the lot of us who were just looking for answers. Stick by it, because I'm glad you stuck around to explain the disparity!
LukasTaves
Member
On hotchips Ms posted some impressive performance gains from the cpu side... The 5% performance degradation due the virtualization no longer being an issue, 20% less latency for a cache miss, 4 times the cache, and so on...
It's not going to make the ceiling performance faster (that still the 30% overclock over xbone), but the real world performance should be higher than 30% over the xbone processor. Likely not enough to get a game at 30 running at 60, but hopefully enough so at least there are no slowdowns due the cpu.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I expect fantastic results from the it. In a sense, it would be nice to have X1X-lead developed games (similar to how PS3-lead games actually amounted to better ports, often times).
I've reached out to TGO in hopes that he can provide steps for this. No matter what, we're still trying to figure out this dirt issue. We haven't been able to replicate it AT ALL on both PC and PS4 Pro. So clearly there is something we're missing that doesn't make sense. Even bringing Lara to the brink of death using those urns and the blockage doesn't help. It just isn't working.
We DO have the markings during gameplay on her face, though, but never during the cutscene. It always disappears.
My only suspicion is that the Chapter Replay option is the big problem here and maybe others were using save files?
Liabe Brave
Member
All this might be true for games, but this particular game doesn't show it (yet?). The better textures are there, but One X has less post-processing, not more. The framerate options are the same, and there's not enough footage to analyze comparative fps. It may well be better than Pro, but we can't say for sure yet.
No it isn't. One X max bandwidth is 326 GB/s, and Pro is 218 GB/s. The One X memory bandwidth isn't even double the standard PS4.
No, that's not how it works. For the same architecture, calculation metrics like TF fully describe all of the improvement. Upping clockspeed doesn't give you higher performance, and then some more higher performance on top of that for free.
If there are changes or specializations to the One X GPU architecture, then perhaps there could be additional gains not subsumed under the clock boost. But as of now, I don't think we're aware of any.
The one thing I do know for sure is that the desert chapter runs better on Xbox One X using "High frame-rate mode" than it does on PS4 Pro. The final cutscenes and escape sequence all dip into the 50s on the Pro but are locked on X1X.
It's likely going to dip in the hubs but it does seem to have a slight advantage in that mode.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
So a giant misunderstanding. Got it! I look forward to y'all's full feature in November!
And yeah, hopefully TGO will give a run down on it.
Journey
Banned
Liliana Eileen
Member
Liabe Brave trying to spread that FUD as per usual, only to get proven utterly wrong by the man himself.
Welp.
PS4 bandwidth: just below 140 according to
http://wccftech.com/sony-ps4-effective-bandwidth-140-gbs-disproportionate-cpu-gpu-scaling/
Xbox One X bandwidth: 285 according to http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=246627704
There is no sense in comparing the theoretical maximum.
Oh no, he's OK. We don't have any footage to analyze. I'm just reporting in the demo I played. I provided Pro comparisons with FPS data in the video. It's still very early to judge performance.
That's not the pro and that's not official.
