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[TropicalFish]

I'm suddenly interested in this game.

 

[Reishiki]

I think some people need a crash course in the forms handedness bias appears.

The only time this would be relevant on the gaming side of GAF is in a discussion about Link's sword hand, which this thread isn't.

 

[GearDraxon]

I've yet to see anybody successfully pointing out systematic oppression of this particular group by the videogame industry. That is after all the comment I was replying to originally, right? See, the person I was replying to was implying that the lack of characters representative of this group was part of systematic oppression. Lot of knee-jerk responses seem to be missing that. I'm trying to understand how perceived lack of representation equals systematic oppression. Since lack of representation was the defining element present for systematic oppression I naturally looked at other groups being similarly systematically oppressed and saw that their claim looked quite silly when doing so.

This is, I would say, a pretty singularly willfully ignorant reading of what people's comments have been. The representation is a symptom of the industry's view on the group in question, and so people are happy about the level of representation growing, and cheering it on.

Then again, your initial "everyone is demonized, so any attempt to change that is pointless" is a completely shallow argument, devoid of any attempt to look at context, the current state of society, etc., so I'm not sure what I expected. Abstracting these things into "human nature" is cold comfort to those who struggle with them each day. Your use of "LBGTA-Z" and "perceived lack of representation" indicates that you don't think it's actually a problem. Clearly, others do.

Perhaps we should all go back to Pac-Man, where the "gameplay" was all that mattered and these troublesome topics never came-

DAMMIT.

 

[Woo-Fu]

So does LGBTQZ-A mean something in particular or is just edgelord lol letters?

The person I was replying to changed the set of letters in each reply so I thought I'd cover my bases. No surprise that was misinterpreted by people looking to be offended by anybody who doesn't agree with their point of view.

 

[Messofanego]

Perhaps we should all go back to Pac-Man, where the "gameplay" was all that mattered and these troublesome topics never came-

DAMMIT.

All dat hetero agenda!

 

[Aquillion]

I think some people need a crash course in the forms handedness bias appears.

The only time this would be relevant on the gaming side of GAF is in a discussion about Link's sword hand, which this thread isn't.

Depending on the version, Link suffered from that weird condition where your handedness changes depending on which way you're facing, anyway.

 

[Granadier]

The person I was replying to changed the set of letters in each reply so I thought I'd cover my bases. No surprise that was misinterpreted by people looking to be offended by anybody who doesn't agree with their point of view.

The letters actually have meaning. But instead of "approving" that you decided to just slap the whole alphabet in there because obviously the gay agenda can't have reasoning behind their acronyms.

 

[Chris23]

High chaos run confirmed.

 

[GearDraxon]

The person I was replying to changed the set of letters in each reply so I thought I'd cover my bases. No surprise that was misinterpreted by people looking to be offended by anybody who doesn't agree with their point of view.

LET'S GO TO THE TAPE, BILL!

By pushing back against more equal representation by using irrational justifications in order to maintain the oppressive status quo, then yes, you are contributing to the oppression of people.

"I'm not homophobic/racist/sexist, I just don't want LGBTQ/non-white/female characters to represented in a game because reasons"

I can't believe you think that being LGBTQ is equivalent to being left or right handed.

This is actually the only time Lime used an acronym in this thread, and it was consistent. Nice try. Also, your use of "looking to be offended" is pretty indicative of what you think about people who feel strongly on such topics.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

So does LGBTQZ-A mean something in particular or is just edgelord lol letters?

The latter.

But if there's still a doubt, perhaps it's time to be reminded of this quote, relevant to this poster:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=207679643&postcount=377

The person I was replying to changed the set of letters in each reply so I thought I'd cover my bases. No surprise that was misinterpreted by people looking to be offended by anybody who doesn't agree with their point of view.

Yes yes of course. Except no. Lime used the LGBTQ acronym consistently, which is a fairly well-known acronym that has a meaning (Q standing for queer and/or questioning. So your claim that Lime changed their acronym in "each reply" is a lie, and based on your posting history, you are just another edgelord arguing in bad faith who feigns surprise when people are "offended" by your BS.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The problem with pointing out systemic oppression is that it's either that we point out a multitude of examples of individual instances of it and it gets ignored or dismissed as being individual and not indicative of a bigger problem that is creating them, and when there are statistics, it's either "remember when games were games," "what do these statistics actually mean," and "artistic freedom."

High chaos run confirmed.

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is this post supposed to mean that you will have a high-kill run in Dishonored 2 due to the presence of LGBT people? Again, sorry if that's not what you meant, it's just the first thing that came to mind.

 

[Reishiki]

Depending on the version, Link suffered from that weird condition where your handedness changes depending on which way you're facing, anyway.

I was thinking of the Wii/Gamecube thing with Twilight Princess, myself.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is this post supposed to mean that you will have a high-kill run in Dishonored 2 due to the presence of LGBT people? Again, sorry if that's not what you meant, it's just the first thing that came to mind.

This was absolutely my interpretation as well.

 

[Aquillion]

High chaos run confirmed.

Instead of low / high Chaos, they should have a Kinsey Scale. You have the option to resolve situations in either a "straight" or a "gay" manner (eg. who does the main character sleep with to sneak into a party), and depending on your actions, the setting becomes more straight or more gay.

Both main characters have extremely sexualized combat moves, and using them on one gender or the other causes the game's Kinsey Scale to adjust appropriately.

 

[Hypron]

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is this post supposed to mean that you will have a high-kill run in Dishonored 2 due to the presence of LGBT people? Again, sorry if that's not what you meant, it's just the first thing that came to mind.

Damn I just noticed this. That's really fucked up if true.

Spoiler

The guy is a junior, it's probably exactly what he meant

 

[Chris23]

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting this, but is this post supposed to mean that you will have a high-kill run in Dishonored 2 due to the presence of LGBT people? Again, sorry if that's not what you meant, it's just the first thing that came to mind.

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

 

[Hypron]

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

And you got all that from a 1-word twitter reply?

 

[Beth Cyra]

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

How is it false sense of representation? They are choosing to do that and it is representation


It needs to happen so it can be common and normal because there is nothing wrong or uncommon about being gay. Its because of decisions to add LGBT as they are doing that will remove it from being an outlier and should be championed. Not written off or undercut.

 

[Alienfan]

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

How is it these conversations just go full circle again lol. All these points have been brought up and successfully argued against.

What's a "true sense" of diversity and progressiveness then?

 

[GearDraxon]

"Guys, everyone gets demonized, and it's not really a big deal, just human nature and sports teams even do it!"

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

Seven days after Orlando, and people think that "tasteless sarcasm" like this is an acceptable way to act.

I'll admit that I didn't leap to the conclusion about what this poster was implying, but I'm going to cut myself some slack and chalk it up to optimism and not naiveté.

 

[BigDes]

Round and round and round we go

 

[Aquillion]

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

It's totally fine if it doesn't matter to you!

But it does matter, a lot, to some people. Remember that not every part of the world is as progressive as (I would assume) wherever you live might be. Many gay people still face constant pressure to stay closeted or a constant sense that they're not normal, that there's something wrong with them. (And in some cases they still face much much worse.)

To people like that, seeing a few people like them in games is a big deal (and, conversely, rarely or never seeing people like themselves in games is a big deal.) When you're a young gay player who is unsure about how you relate to your sexuality, and you're getting mixed messages from society, seeing a lot of heterosexual relationships in games, and no homosexual ones, can really hit you hard, harder than you might think.

I mean I don't know your circumstances -- obviously it's not the same for everyone -- but, again. It matters a lot to some people. And all anyone in this thread is asking (I hope) is that you accept that it matters to them, and that you don't begrudge them that desire for representation. If you can just shrug and say "alright, a gay character, doesn't mean anything to me but I guess that's making someone happy", that's fine.

And, I mean... I don't see what's false about it? If it means something to the people who need it, that's what's important, isn't it?

 

[mooksoup]

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

I guess growing up having virtually every piece of media you consume constant referencing heterosexuality and being framed from a heterosexual viewpoint, and that being the norm, something as small as having prominent characters who are not that, *feels* significant. To me at least.

If you don't notice that sexuality is referenced constantly in media, it's likely because it's heterosexual and it feels normal to reference that. Maybe it only seems "thrown in" to you when it's queer sexuality because that's the only time you really notice that it is happening?

 

[Beth Cyra]

High chaos run confirmed.

Given how recently the LBGT community recently suffered this is some offensive shit even if you didn't mean it in earnest.

 

[Granadier]

High chaos run confirmed.

Fucking hell. Shit tier comment of the year right here.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Just a tasteless bit of sarcasm, i just don't see why sexual orientation should matter to the player, i'm going to be assassinating/doing whatever regardless of a sexual preference. I feel like this is just being thrown in to create some sort of false sense of progressiveness in representation and diversity.

Given that we had a big ol' mass killing of LGBT people, maybe wrong place and wrong time? Not that it's not kinda messed up in general, but like, right now?

Anyway, stop and ask yourself, really ask yourself, what motivates you to believe that this is a false sense of progressiveness. Because the literally sole bit of knowledge we have is that one or more LGBT characters are prominent in Dishonored 2. It really does seem like you have a fair degree of homophobia if you default to an LGBT character being poor, especially wrt your joke about shooting people over it.

 

[Rayis]

What is it about LGBTQ representation threads in any piece of media that brings out the assholes?

 

[Kilau]

Those damn gay agendas

Wow that notebook is fantastic but that handwriting...must have been a lefty

 

[A Link to the Past]

What is it about LGBTQ representation threads in any piece of media that brings out the assholes?

I think it might have something to do with enough people really, really hating LGBT people.

 

[mikefrails]

What is it about LGBTQ representation threads in any piece of media that brings out the assholes?

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

 

[Beth Cyra]

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

That is because there is never a good reason to be against LBGT inclusion.

It would be like the tools who are contrarian in regards to equal representation to Black, Latino, Asian folk and other minorities. Trying to talk against should never be something considered okay.

 

[TropicalFish]

High chaos run confirmed.

What the ever living fuck.

 

[RM8]

I just don't understand why someone would think this is not okay, even after reading the thread. Gay people exist, media unsurprisingly reflects that. Where's the problem, again? I'd genuinely like to know why some find this so wrong and infuriating.

 

[SapphiCine]

Yeah it's a knock at the letters. Not necessarily bigotry though.

I think the biggest mistake was making it acronym based - it was just asking for trouble. Sexuality for many exist on a spectrum, you're never going to represent everyone, even with 26 letters in the alphabet to use. LGBTA works fine, it's not perfect , but adding more letters onto the end is just distracting. I get it doesn't display every possible combination of people, but the A at the end is at least an attempt to represent everyone.

An alternative that is used by my partner is MOGII: marginalized orientations, gender identities, and intersex.

 

[GearDraxon]

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

You're right. Let me just go find where someone implied that they were going to do a high-kill run of the game, because of all the straight people in it.

Like, seriously. The hostility is due to the hilariously transparent feigned ignorance on display.

 

[cityhunter]

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

Seems? No they are. With mod support. Tends to push people that supported them initially away as they get more aggressive.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Wow that notebook is fantastic but that handwriting...must have been a lefty

I resent that!

 

[Rayis]

I think it might have something to do with enough people really, really hating LGBT people.

Yep, it sucks that we just can't be accepted and always have to justify our existence, I'd like to believe we're improving somehow.

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

It gets exasperating having to hear the same arguments over and over again, and posters just handwaving representation as unimportant and needing a good reason to be. All the while ignoring the same privileges in representation they get to enjoy.

Seems? No they are. With mod support. Tends to push people that supported them initially away as they get more aggressive.

If seeming aggressive is all you need to withdraw support, perhaps you weren't being supportive in the first place.

 

[Hypron]

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

I've yet to see a single good argument against the topic of this thread. I've just seen ignorance and thinly veiled bigotry. We don't owe people respect when they are blatantly disrespecting an entire demographics for no reason.

And I mean, most people start by calmly arguing their position but after seeing the same disingenuous, misinformed posts for the umpteenth time your posts invariably start morphing into "fuck outta here with that bullshit".

 

[A Link to the Past]

In their defense, LGBTQ supporters seem more aggressive than the contrarians here. At least from what I've seen.

Any post that isn't in full support is met with hostility, regardless of the poster's intention.

It is a debate where one side inherently starts with a disadvantage, especially when we have so little information that being on that side essentially means that you don't want LGBT people in games.

Seems? No they are. With mod support. Tends to push people that supported them initially away as they get more aggressive.

Can't be that the people opposed to this are just really, really bad at debating this argument and tend to say things that make them look really bad, like joking about killing gay people

 

[RM8]

Seems? No they are. With mod support. Tends to push people that supported them initially away as they get more aggressive.

Why won't people respect that some people just want gay people to be invisible, right?

Alternatively - I used to be on the side of gay people, but they're just too freaking loud when they ask for representation!

 

[cityhunter]

If seeming aggressive is all you need to withdraw support, perhaps you weren't being supportive in the first place.

Love that jump to conclusion you made there. It's all or nothing. Stop or full throttle. Without causing to think for one second. Keep it up.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why won't people respect that some people just want gay people to be invisible, right?

Alternatively - I used to be on the side of gay people, but they're just too freaking loud when they ask for representation!

LGBT people should only criticize representation during ASMRs

Love that jump to conclusion you made there. It's all or nothing. Stop or full throttle. Without causing to think for one second. Keep it up.

They made what is a decently fair assumption that since you were expressing the fact that LGBT people were pushing "supporters" (people who can be pushed away from supporting LGBT people because of the tone of people on a message board are not supporters) away, you were speaking from experience.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Seems? No they are. With mod support. Tends to push people that supported them initially away as they get more aggressive.

Please, I beg you, tell me in what scenario can you or anyone justify not giving full support or representation? Or being contrary to LBGT issues or visibility in games.

The reason why it is frowned on is the same damn reason it's not okay to blatantly post racism. The shit isn't justifyable.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Love that jump to conclusion you made there. It's all or nothing. Stop or full throttle. Without causing to think for one second. Keep it up.

Just say what you want to say. Life's too short to hold back.

 

[Satch]

its going to be Legend Emily

queen of bisexuality


EDIT: why did i call her emily... her name is elizabeth... i guess im a fake stan

EDIT: omg her name is emily i was right the first time... some of the people in this thread tricked me

 

[A Link to the Past]

I also love that people act as though LGBT people have mods on a leash. Yep, because we totally, if we had mods under control, would leave a poster unbanned after joking about wanting to kill LGBT people.

 

[hodgy100]

Seems? No they are. With mod support. Tends to push people that supported them initially away as they get more aggressive.

Can you blame them? People either seem to be really oblivious to why people would like to see representations of themselves or they are being disingenuous. And then they throw rubbish reasons to explain away why people like them shouldnt have representation or they don't get why it's a big deal.

It's a cycle that repeatedly happens and I think a few people are getting really exasperated about it.

We just had someone imply they were going to do a high kill run because the game contains LGBTQ characters and even though hey were "joking" it's incredibly tone deaf. So yeah people are on edge.

 

[Rayis]

Love that jump to conclusion you made there. It's all or nothing. Stop or full throttle. Without causing to think for one second. Keep it up.

First of all, I wasn't talking about you, it was a general you, I should have specified

and I suppose you mean to say people are indifferent about LGBT representation, which is fair I guess, just that they shouldn't call themselves supporters when things get too difficult for them.

 

[Jean Grey Will Rise]

Why is this thread such a disaster. Homophobes, y'all lost the culture war. Eat my ass





















oop that was a bit aggressive