TatteredHat
Member
By all means, share with us your true feelings on LBGT.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dishonored 2 to feature prominent LGBT characters
- Thread starter theecakee
- Start date
By all means, share with us your true feelings on LBGT.
Messofanego
Banned
Why would someone want to talk against LGBT characters in this discussion?
Come off it. This is in no way shape or form helpful. She/he may not mean it like you took it. You can't have a proper discussion if either side is to defensive.
Edit: hmm, I apologize having re-read it he's asking for it.
TatteredHat
Member
I'm not being defensive, but (sadly?) there is no valid argument against LGBT that doesn't stem from intolerance. I'll be glad to be proven wrong though.
NumberThree
Member
There doesn't need to be two opposing sides to have a discussion.
dragonlife
Member
It's bannable to be an asshole/moron. That's not specific to being against LGBT people, but... being against any group of people almost always amounts to the same thing.
I know that thought the person was saying he was afraid of speaking his mind for fear of banning. Then thought the other person was jumping on his throat assuming the worst. Turns out I can't read, and the guy looks like he's asking for it.
Again I apologize stopped reading right before dude took the leap off the edge.
TatteredHat
Member
Hey, no worries.
So many arguments in here about how it is pandering/a marketing ploy, I think that every game that doesn't talk about LGBT representation are basically pandering to straight people with all their heteronormative subtleties. The base line is: "dont worry straights, no homo"
Really hoping its Corvo/Emily, because if its a target (and there is no non-lethal outcome), after this year so far?! ugh no thanks.
Really hoping its Corvo/Emily, because if its a target (and there is no non-lethal outcome), after this year so far?! ugh no thanks.
A Link to the Past
Banned
No one minds y ou sharing your thoughts. Go ahead.
Earthpainting
Member
The recent thread about straight female protagonists makes me hope it isn't about Emily, if I'm honest. The absence of heterosexual women in leading roles was a strange pattern to be confronted with in the medium. I assume it's it's partially due to the fact that the amount of female protagonists is simply low, but the speculated reasons painted an uncomfortable picture. It's not hard to imagine that it could be done to try and not alienate the straight male part of the audience, who may not want to be asked to participate in a relationship with a male character. If this is indeed the hurdle, it tie in directly to the total lack of homosexual male protagonists. If these folks already have trouble with something as heteronormative as "protagonist girl likes boy", then "protagonist boy likes boy" is going to be a challenge.
While I think gay characters as target in the game could perhaps seem tasteless at the moment, I don't think developers should go out of their way to avoid it. Dishonoured 2 for instance is many months away from release, and hopefully society has healed enough by then that the subject won't make too many folks uncomfortable. Violence is one of the primary methods of interaction in games, and LGBT characters inhabiting these worlds exposes them to these risks. As long as games aren't projecting some sick message onto their specific deaths, I think it should be fine.
Just keep in mind that sexuality and gender play a large part in ones life, and thus it's only fair to be courteous and respectful. GAF's a pretty chill place as long as you don't deny the existence of groups of people, or condemn them for things they have little to no control over. If you can't express your opinions within those parameters, then sure, it's going to be easier to keep those to yourself. Perhaps that time you aren't spending on writing that post can be used to reflect on why you think these self-censored opinions aren't acceptable.
While I think gay characters as target in the game could perhaps seem tasteless at the moment, I don't think developers should go out of their way to avoid it. Dishonoured 2 for instance is many months away from release, and hopefully society has healed enough by then that the subject won't make too many folks uncomfortable. Violence is one of the primary methods of interaction in games, and LGBT characters inhabiting these worlds exposes them to these risks. As long as games aren't projecting some sick message onto their specific deaths, I think it should be fine.
There are plenty of ways to talk about the subject in a critical fashion. Pop in one of the several LGBT threads for instance to see folks discussing potentially problematic elements that float around LGBT sub-cultures, or in media depictions. Poorly handled LGBT characters in video games are thus of course open-season, and has been the subject of many threads in the past. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread though, just because it's done poorly, doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't have been done to begin with. The path to mastery is paved with failures after all.
Just keep in mind that sexuality and gender play a large part in ones life, and thus it's only fair to be courteous and respectful. GAF's a pretty chill place as long as you don't deny the existence of groups of people, or condemn them for things they have little to no control over. If you can't express your opinions within those parameters, then sure, it's going to be easier to keep those to yourself. Perhaps that time you aren't spending on writing that post can be used to reflect on why you think these self-censored opinions aren't acceptable.
lightskintwin
Banned
Did you stop watching Penny Dreadful? Because there was a sex scene between a man and a transgender woman (who still had a male body) that got pretty graphic for my innocent heterosexual male eyes. LOL
Monocle
Member
You don't have to agree that more representation for an underrepresented and often misrepresented minority is a good thing, but I can't really think of an objection that isn't somehow connected to intolerance. Can you?
I mean, if someone said "I'd be fine with seeing fewer black people in media" or "I don't dislike black people, I just don't agree with them" wouldn't that give you pause?
Diprosalic
Banned
people that think this is pandering: i'm curious what would be an example of a "non-shoehorned" lgbt character in your eyes? really like to know, no snarky answers please.
What situation is there to agree or disagree on?
lightskintwin
Banned
Whether it's an abomination or not in the eyes of their God.
Yes, I hope that the characters in this story-driven game are well written too.
Monocle
Member
Some of my favorite people are abominations. I don't plan to burn in hell with them, but other than that, we're like peas in a pod!
-duskdoll-
Member
Nope, i'm waiting for this season to end so i can binge watch it.
Are you talking about the scene between D.G. and that woman?
Monocle
Member
Are there even objective criteria for agenda driven shoehorning? And if there are, does it matter? Tons of straight characters are shallow, especially in video games.
Hopefully we get to a point where straight white males will not refer to black protags or queer characters or strong women in games as token characters. This post shows we are far from that at this point in history.
Means we'll need even more of those. Way way more.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I was going to reply to this person, but then I saw that they were banned. Honestly, it's amazing how much a double standard people have about sexuality, gender, and racial representation.
I was genuinely surprised by this thread. All of the bullshit "shoehorned" and "SJW boogeywomyn!!!" responses were handled pretty well. Also glad people got called out for the whole "I'm fine with it as long as they don't reinforce stereotypes". As if the only "acceptable" homosexual is one whose gayness is completely hidden.
lightskintwin
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
Emperor_Uriel
Member
How does one display one's "gayness?"
I think the issue that some people (including myself) have is that certain styles/personalities are associated with a sexual orientation in the first place. One should have nothing to do with the other.
We need to reach the point where a gruff dudebro space marine and a ballerina princess have just as much of a chance of being LGBT as a stereotypical flamboyant man or "butch" woman.
This is why I love that Mass Effect gives us an explicitly straight, thuggish woman (Jack) and a fairly femme, stylistically unremarkable lesbian (Traynor).
You know what could be better ? a lipstick and a chapstick lesbian.
More than one ... diversity of diversity. Than THE LGBT character does not need to be a representation of every lgbt
It's interesting how this argument exists in another thread, about how female characters shouldn't just be a female skin but should represent femininity. It seems a lot of debate about female/LGBT representation revolves around whether stereotypes should be embraced or scolded, since people disagree on whether stereotypes are useful for representation as a starting template. I'm not sure what the right answer is.
The right answer is both.
You only need to choose one or the other if your game looks like a 90's cartoon.
If you have more than one of each it does not became stereotypes or breaking of stereotypes, they became different people with diferent personalities
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yup. It's a very steady hand that needs to make LGBT characters that are just people who are LGBT, and characters who represent the "LGBT experience."