Wouldn't mind seeing an entire season dedicated to the Doctor trying to find a lost group of Time Lords or something. Something to shed more light on what happened and how they could restore some form of Time Lord civilization.
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
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Wouldn't mind seeing an entire season dedicated to the Doctor trying to find a lost group of Time Lords or something. Something to shed more light on what happened and how they could restore some form of Time Lord civilization.
What? Iirc everything in S5 made sense... more or less.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I don't think they're interested in that to be honest. Moffatt's quite enamored with the idea of him being the last Time Lord, and I mean River's lost everything that really makes her a Time Lord now.
I know. And I still like the idea of it myself as well. I think it's something to consider in the future. Perhaps not even during Moffat's tenure. And I wouldn't want an all-out restoration of the Time Lords pre- Time War. Just something small.
And River's technically at least part-Time Lord. She only inherited the regenerative feature from them. I've always found the "time head" line to be pretty funny.
I've watched that finale multiple times and the only flaw I found in it was the River didn't recognize Rory as the centurion until she got to Amy's house.
I can't remember. In The Snowmen, does the Doctor mention his realisation about Victorian Clara to them? They're going to be somewhat surprised when they meet her. Again.
I wonder if that's the circumstance in which she discovers that she's unusual. She doesn't actually know yet.
infiniteloop
Member
yes, they are.
The Elite
BOSS
I can do this.
I think he kinda did at the end. Pretty sure he was just like "It's her, she was there and then there and now here and ahhhh" and they're just kinda like "wat" and then he leaves.
I thought it was all explained fairly well with as little plot wholes as possible. Easily my favorite finale in the new series' by far. It's just so unbelievably fun, enjoyable, and entergetic. Season 1's is really the only one that comes close to that feel. Season 2's was also good, Season 3, 4, and 6 were ehhhh though. My finale rating would be:
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang > Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways > Army of Ghosts/Doomsday > The Stolen Earth/Journey's End > The Wedding of River Song >>>>>>>>>> Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords
I loved Utopia but then they proceeded to shit the bed for a solid two hours after that.
That reminds me of how the end of Snowmen was hilarious in a terrible way, the family who was hurt so much by Clara's death is bawling in front of her grave and goes away to the side of the screen in the background while the Doctor gets progressively happy and leaves without explaining shit. :lol
I call The Last of the Time Lords "Doctor Who meets Care Bears" because I expected Martha to turn to the camera and say "Come on everyone, if you believe in the Doctor then say his name!" I am stunned an actual TV show got away with that without a hint of irony.
I too adore the Season 5 finale. The whole plot of the TARDIS exploding everywhere throughout history at once, solved by flying the Pandorica into it so its regenerating light spreads out everywhere at once - but leaving the Doctor trapped at the heart of the explosion and so outside the rebooted universe - but the Doctor working out from clues going all the way back to the duck pond in "Eleventh Hour" that Amy, thanks to sleeping near the crack every night, can re-remember things back into being... Such intricate plotting that just flows so beautifully all the way up to the wonderful "something blue" moment.
I like "Wedding of River Song", but the Season 5 finale is a masterpeice of plotting and emotion.
I like "Wedding of River Song", but the Season 5 finale is a masterpeice of plotting and emotion.
Dr Zhivago
Member
Moffat's explanation for this is that she was pretending not to know him :S
Sometimes River's 'lying' feels more like the writer lying to the audience.
Not that different from Amy wishing the Doctor back into existence.
But that is clearly set up from "Eleventh Hour", where Amy remembers the duck pond as a duck pond despite also knowing that it has never contained any ducks. Which leads to the idea that everything being erased from the Universe has effectively been flowing past her head every night, since she sleeps next to one of the cracks. Whether or not you buy that logic, it's a mechanic that is no more or less believeable for me than the concept of the TARDIS, and one that is set up 12 episodes before it proves vital.
(This is also somewhat true of the psychic network the Master is using in LoTTL, but I suspect that will be harder to convince people of!)
User 100115
Banned
I think that can be handwaved away by the fact that he had fallen into the crack and was erased from time. Given, yeah, she's a time traveler and shouldn't have been as affected, but Amy was affected, so...
That's what I thought too, but then it raises the issue of how the photo 'existed' in the first place.
Dr Zhivago
Member
LOTTL has a much better mechanic than 'Amy has a magic power that will never be used or referenced again', but the hate for that episode is too strong... 
RE River & Rory, Moffat specifically stated she was lying (I'll try & dig up the precise quote). The crack would have been a much better explanation. Moffat did a similar thing with the Astronaut - The Doctor says River probably won't remember it, but she later says she did remember and pretended not to.
RE River & Rory, Moffat specifically stated she was lying (I'll try & dig up the precise quote). The crack would have been a much better explanation. Moffat did a similar thing with the Astronaut - The Doctor says River probably won't remember it, but she later says she did remember and pretended not to.
User 100115
Banned
LOTTL has a much better mechanic than 'Amy has a magic power that will never be used or referenced again', but the hate for that episode is too strong...
RE River & Rory, Moffat specifically stated she was lying (I'll try & dig up the precise quote). The crack would have been a much better explanation. Moffat did a similar thing with the Astronaut - The Doctor says River probably won't remember it, but she later says she did remember and pretended not to.
Well with the astronaut, she likely doesn't actually remember killing him; but she remembers him telling her about it, going to jail for his murder, etc.
Dr Zhivago
Member
She talks about 'pretending not to recognise an Apollo spacesuit'. I guess she could have just forgotten the precise moment of killing the Doctor, but it seems a bit odd.
I keep feeling like they're just going to be cheap and make her
a Zygon
The Funeral of River Song, it makes me think she could be River or is at least related to River
My wildest guess would be she's the computer from Forest of the Dead.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Yes, it was always the Tesselecta.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I have plenty problems with that.
I haven't read any of the synopses/hints/spoilers of the future episodes so I can't comment on that loblaw. I also didn't quote you because I realized the hard way that quoting spoilers shows said spoilers, duh.
That actually occurred to me while writing it right now.
You seem to have plenty of problems with pretty much every finale.
That actually occurred to me while writing it right now.
You seem to have plenty of problems with pretty much every finale.
Why? I mean, it's not the best idea, but it makes perfect sense at least.
Ventilaator
Banned
Something nobody ever explained to me regarding the Tesselecta, even though I asked like three times.
I can accept that the fixed point in time was always the robot, but how in the shit does the Doctor know that? He spent the last few episodes before his death going "Yeah, I really don't want to die, but this is a fixed point, which means I have to. I can't not do it because that would break everything."
And then "Oh but actually, robots!"
I can accept that the fixed point in time was always the robot, but how in the shit does the Doctor know that? He spent the last few episodes before his death going "Yeah, I really don't want to die, but this is a fixed point, which means I have to. I can't not do it because that would break everything."
And then "Oh but actually, robots!"
The second part of my post is my real theory anyways, no worries.
Was just Moffat writing himself into a corner and then doing his best to weasel his way out, I think. He wanted to build a butt load of tension (and did) and it was awesome and then he couldn't think of a better way to make sure the Doctor actually didn't die than "lol writing-breaking robots".
Hot Coldman
Banned
Rule #1: The Doctor lies.
Speaking of which, as I said before, I don't believe the Doctor and River are really married. Going by what we've seen on screen, she shouldn't know his name.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
This pretty much. Nobody could obviously tease a "It's a Ganger Doctor!" storyline then manage to come up with something even worse.
I believe this as well. Although it's probably mostly denial, because I can't believe the Doctor would ever marry someone as conceited.
IIRC, she doesn't yet. But how do we know that it was at their wedding he told her his name? Maybe it was somewhere else, maybe at a certain field?
This makes sense. So then it all works out that Clara is a Wedding Cake.
Well yeah, we know she knows his name. We just don't know when she knows his name.
Maybe he just likes to hear his name being screamed while having sex, which is the only reason he'd ever tell anyone.
Hot Coldman
Banned
One of the many unresolved Moffat plotlines- where does River learn the Doctor's name.
We'll find out within the next year, I would hope.
We'll find out within the next year, I would hope.
What do you want explained? He realized that the fixed point in time was the appearance of his death, not necessarily his actual death. And conveniently, he knew of a way to fake it.
Weird to me that people think it being a ganger would make more sense. A ganger doctor definitely wouldn't have looked like it was regenerating.
Oh well, at least people are over asking how a shape-shifting robot was able to glow like it was regenerating.
Well considering his name has been a pretty big point since the end of last season, hopefully we'll find out soon.
That's the point, isn't it - the fixed point in time was always the Tesselecta being destroyed. Or, alternatively, the Doctor just had to be on the beach at that moment, which is a dilemma solved by him being inside it, making it more interesting that it literally just being a robot replacement.
Wasn't the TARDIS plugged in at the time? I assumed that was why.
mightynine
Member
I still maintain that River will end up becoming the Papal Mainframe. Perhaps infected by the Great Intelligence?
After all, the Library computer would give him/it plenty of minds to munch on....
After all, the Library computer would give him/it plenty of minds to munch on....
Hot Coldman
Banned
The Flesh wouldn't have worked at all. No regeneration effect, and given that the Silence were watching over things they probably would have noticed that... also it seems the Silence had no idea that a crew of vigilantes were roaming the universe in a shape-shifting robot, seeing as the Tesselecta managed to kill one of their own and take its place.
It's pretty obvious, really. Besides, they already did the Flesh swap-out trick twice- people complain about the Tesselecta replacing the Doctor at Lake Silencio, but I imagine more would be annoyed if Moffat used the Flesh again.
The Tesselecta probably has the means to make that effect itself. It's pretty high-tech and that.
It's pretty obvious, really. Besides, they already did the Flesh swap-out trick twice- people complain about the Tesselecta replacing the Doctor at Lake Silencio, but I imagine more would be annoyed if Moffat used the Flesh again.
The Tesselecta probably has the means to make that effect itself. It's pretty high-tech and that.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
How though? Did I miss something?
The Elite
BOSS
A fixed point doesn't have to be a prominent figure actually dying it can simply be the appearance of such an event taking place.
Hitler's death is a fixed point in our history from which the ripples on time/space are grand. For all we know he could have faked his death and lived till he was 80 but the effect of us believing he was dead is nonetheless affected. Same goes with JFK/MLK/Lincoln/Caesar/ so on and so forth.
Hitler's death is a fixed point in our history from which the ripples on time/space are grand. For all we know he could have faked his death and lived till he was 80 but the effect of us believing he was dead is nonetheless affected. Same goes with JFK/MLK/Lincoln/Caesar/ so on and so forth.
You didn't miss anything as such. The Doctor just assumed that as long as it looked like he had died, that would be enough to fulfill the fixed point, which it was, and the Tesselecta was the perfect thing to do it with.
And, incidentally, the Tesselacta's original mission was to steal away hitler and then impersonate him until his original death. So your comparison to Hitler's death being a fixed point in time is particularly apt. Hitler only had to appear to die to fulfil his fixed point, while they intended to take him to the future to properly punish him.
Hell, I suppose that's probably where he got the idea now that I think about it.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I didn't like how either of the moffat season finales have resolved.
The Impossible Astronaut resolution(one small step) was brilliant though, so I know he has it in him...
The Impossible Astronaut resolution(one small step) was brilliant though, so I know he has it in him...
Another thing which just came to mind is that after the whole Astronaut story, the Doctor started erasing records of himself, making himself unknown. This eventually led to River being released.
In Asylum of the Daleks, Clara erases all info about the Doctor from the Dalek's hivemind.
Since then we've only had the Great Intelligence who seems to recognize the Doctor in The Bells of Saint John, but that's only because he had met him again in the Snowmen. The rest were only one off monsters and the Angels, who don't really seem to give a shit about who the Doctor is.
I don't have a point to all of this, just thinking aloud.
In Asylum of the Daleks, Clara erases all info about the Doctor from the Dalek's hivemind.
Since then we've only had the Great Intelligence who seems to recognize the Doctor in The Bells of Saint John, but that's only because he had met him again in the Snowmen. The rest were only one off monsters and the Angels, who don't really seem to give a shit about who the Doctor is.
I don't have a point to all of this, just thinking aloud.
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