Neoleo2143
Member
Mad Max Fury Road is an interesting example. Most of the "Story Telling" is mostly handled via complex Cinematography rather than words, not unlike how a good game tells/induces it's story through mechanics and interaction.
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Does a game with bad story but perfect gameplay deserve 10/10 Reviews?
- Thread starter Arnie7
- Start date
Mad Max Fury Road is an interesting example. Most of the "Story Telling" is mostly handled via complex Cinematography rather than words, not unlike how a good game tells/induces it's story through mechanics and interaction.
Elitist1945
Member
SomedayTheFire
Member
Is it telling a story? If yes, no.
Diprosalic
Banned
i mean ridiculous shit happening doesn't mean it's a bad story but Kojima is one of the worst writers who ever got paid to write.
AcademicSaucer
Member
20/10
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Glass Shark
Banned
Any game deserves a score that is reflective of the particular reviewer's level of recommendation for that game. You cannot capture a game's objective quality in a review score. All you can do is capture how much you recommend a game. So if a reviewer values gameplay that much higher than story, and they want to give the game their absolute highest level of recommendation, they should give it a 10/10.
Captain America 3 currently has four full score reviews listed on Metacritic.
While I don't deny gaming reviews have inflated scores compared to movie reviews, 10/10 or five stars has never meant "perfect." Just "I think it's really damn good".
Ewwwww. Linear storytelling is holding the medium back. We have the potential for emergent storytelling based on a player's own actions, and yet people demand the exact same tropes we've had for centuries.
>has an Ico avatar
>trying to greentext on NeoGAF
I kid, I kid, but this really is Metal Gear Rising vs Metal Gear Solid V: The Thread, where there are two superlative games within the same series that excel in different departments, but only one deserves the 10/10 accolade...
and the other one would have too, if not for Konami being nickle-and-diming mercenary arseholes
Essentially, it is down to the genre. Nobody would give a Final Fantasy-style JRPG with a bad story a prefect score, would they? Because story is important to that genre of game. The same with "walking simulators" like Everybody's Gone To The Rapture, Firewatch, Stanley Parable, etc, although that genre isn't really likely to get any 10's anytime soon. Search your feelings...
Yeah, this is my stance on it. A game that heavily relies on its story, but the story is junk cannot get 10/10 reviews (even if it has perfect gameplay). Why? Because a large chunk of the game the developer invested time in is awful, and often times bad stories will create crappy scenarios for you to deal with.
It also depends on the genre. A bad story in a long form genre like RPG really drags down the experience, whereas one in a short action game can basically be ignored.
Depends on whether or not the story is important to the gameplay. Honestly if it devotes any time to a story which is 'bad', I'd argue that detracts from the overall game, but if the story is an entirely extraneous part of the game then sure you can score it perfectly. The main problem comes from scores being a poor way to quantify how good a game is in the first place.
What if said "story" doesn't even get into your face at all? Like, Mario Galaxy 2 practically has no story for that aspect to even be bad.
Elitist1945
Member
Gnome Scat
Member
Depends on where the emphasis lies. Metal Gear Solid V, for example, does not deserve a 10/10 for this reason.
Not always. Silent Hill or Spec-Ops the Line for example are hardly intended to be fun.
Honestly, that's fine since the Cobra Unit was definitely designed in mind first for the gameplay possibilities they presented, rather than someone seriously thinking, "boy, there is a lot of nuance we can wring out of this photosynthetic sniper." MGS3 is a top 10 all-time title for me, but it sure as hell isn't because of its narrative.
Neoleo2143
Member
Beyond two Souls has awful gameplay to begin with. VNs straddle the lines between games and Choose your own adventure books, so it's difficult to classify that. RPGs can also induce powerful feelings through gameplay even if the Story is Weak, as much as I dislike it, Skyrim is quite good at cultivating a feeling of Adventure through its gameplay.
Life is Strange isn't bad at all and manages to get away with rule changes because of its gameplay, which is also conducive to the story telling (rewinding your ways around people and getting to know them, which was the best part of that game in my opinion).
Gameaplay if it is strong enough to produce the intended feelings can make up for weak uses of words.
Because it has great gameplay
Depends on how bad the story is, how much it interferes with the gameplay, etc. You simply can't make a blanket statement of quality when a game could have the most pixel perfect controls of all time but the game's story and premise shoves itself in your face every 20 minutes, making you want to gouge your eyes out.
Sure. Prefect example is Vanquish. However, in that case the game knows the story is shit and hams it up appropriately. So in that sense the story becomes part of its charm. Nonetheless, story is shit and the game is 10/10 for me (with an added caveat that 10/10 does not mean prefect, but close to it).
Rain City Gamer
Member
Good gameplay can carry a bad story, but a good story can rarely carry bad gameplay.
Gameplay is king and I think a 10/10 is worthy for MGSV for that very reason.
Gameplay is king and I think a 10/10 is worthy for MGSV for that very reason.
Because most reviewers do not share your opinion.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I'd say they're apples and oranges. Linear story telling isn't inherently inferior. Plots with diverging paths and choices usually offer a baseline, blank character that does nothing on its own , stands for nothing and makes zero statement cause it's trying to get the player to inject itself into the role of the blank avatar. You can also easily end up with twists that can feel forced cause they have to tie together and accommodate the player's choices rather than present a tightly constructed plot.
chozen
Member
I think gears of war has great gameplay, not last of us. I'm pretty sure thats universally agreed on.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
If it's a narrative-driven game? No and it should get docked hard.
If it's a regular game with a decent focus on story, but equal or near on gameplay? Dock a little so it's not a 10/10. Probably not a 9/10 for me either.
Gameplay focused game? Story has no impact on rating for me.
If it's a regular game with a decent focus on story, but equal or near on gameplay? Dock a little so it's not a 10/10. Probably not a 9/10 for me either.
Gameplay focused game? Story has no impact on rating for me.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I agree with this. Story can be so bad that it becomes a detriment, like in the hypothetical you used. Mario Sunshine, actually, is an example of the story being detrimental to the whole package. Especially since they make you sit and watch so many cutscenes in the beginning.
But I think most Nintendo games, especially Mario games, inhabit a space where the story is nothing special and yet should not have an effect on the final score because you're not focusing on it. It's used more as just an excuse to get the game going.
Arkam
Member
So why would anyone play something that is not fun? Threatened? Paid?
I thought Silent Hill was fun
That's like asking why anyone would watch a tragedy.
Fun isn't the only way fiction can be emotionally engaging.
A quick read through the numerous 10/10 reviews The Last of Us received would prove that it's not universally agreed on.
HyperCubed4
Member
Story is part of the game, so no.
Or should I say, if you choose to include a story and it's bad, then no.
Or should I say, if you choose to include a story and it's bad, then no.
20/10
You're the most gorgeous person I've met. Just so you know.
Elitist1945
Member
Because its an experience. Whether its a fun experience, enlightening experience, an experience that gets you thinking, its still an experience.
luckygodzilla
Member
As always with cases such as these it depends. If the story takes a decided backseat to the gameplay, like a Mario game for example, i think it's totally understandable to still sing the game's praises to the heavens so long as the crummy story is happily shoved into the background.
However if we are talking a story heavy game such as a RPG where the plot plays an integral role in the structuring and framing of the game I believe it is absolutely justifiable to knock it.
However if we are talking a story heavy game such as a RPG where the plot plays an integral role in the structuring and framing of the game I believe it is absolutely justifiable to knock it.
chozen
Member
Point of this thread, you are saying Last of us has perfect gameplay and Gears of war does not?
Neoleo2143
Member
Because they sought an experience that produced a different feeling. Personally, I would say Papers Please succeeded more than either of those games (Well Maybe not Silent Hill 2). Spec: Ops is dreary rather than the harrowing experience the narrative was. Papers Please is dreary and stressful because the gameplay pressures are dreary and stressful.
If the story is so terrible it actually detracts from wanting to play the game, then yeah I think it's fair to dock points based on story.
Mario is a platformer with a story so minimalistic it's hard for it to be that bad. It's just good Mario vs bad bowser. Nothing wrong with that. Playing the levels is what the game is about, not the story, so 10/10 is perfectly fine.
Mgs story is sometimes laughably bad, but that's sort of the appeal in my opinion, so it doesn't detract a lot from doing the missions, because if feels so good to take out a base.
So if story is intertwined a lot with the gameplay to the point of it hurting the experience of just playing, it's okay to pan a game for its story.
Mario is a platformer with a story so minimalistic it's hard for it to be that bad. It's just good Mario vs bad bowser. Nothing wrong with that. Playing the levels is what the game is about, not the story, so 10/10 is perfectly fine.
Mgs story is sometimes laughably bad, but that's sort of the appeal in my opinion, so it doesn't detract a lot from doing the missions, because if feels so good to take out a base.
So if story is intertwined a lot with the gameplay to the point of it hurting the experience of just playing, it's okay to pan a game for its story.
The problem i have is when "games" like most of TellTales games, get high scores based solely on the story... the games themselves are awful, buggy, ugly messes, with bad animations and facial expressions (for games that rely on emotion... youd think they would give a fuck how well their facial animations were... lol)
People give those games a pass because "story" but i personally dont think they deserve high scores. Obviously everything is subjective... but if a game can get perfect scores for being 90% story and 10% game... then i would say its fine to give a game a perfect score for being 90% game and 10% story... it also kinda depends on the type of game.
Obviously Puzzle games like tetris or super hexagon dont even HAVE stories... and Point and click adventure games dont have much gameplay... Action Adventure should have a healthy mix of both... fighting games...are weird... but, i dont know where im going with this lol.
People give those games a pass because "story" but i personally dont think they deserve high scores. Obviously everything is subjective... but if a game can get perfect scores for being 90% story and 10% game... then i would say its fine to give a game a perfect score for being 90% game and 10% story... it also kinda depends on the type of game.
Obviously Puzzle games like tetris or super hexagon dont even HAVE stories... and Point and click adventure games dont have much gameplay... Action Adventure should have a healthy mix of both... fighting games...are weird... but, i dont know where im going with this lol.
This is basically MGS4 vs. MGS5 for me. They both have equally terrible stories, but one of them has the decency to not have it impede on your enjoyment of the title as you're playing it.
mariosbrother
Member
Whether the story mattered to the reviewer would determine whether it was worthy of a 10/10.
A. Not even same type of game.
B. You are one of the very few people to have this opinion.
Last of Us has great gameplay for it's trying to be, which is closer to survival horror unlike Gears.