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Does the hate, hyperbole, and cynicism ever get to anyone else?
- Thread starter Scrabble
- Start date
ArkkAngel007
Member
Because it's everywhere doesn't mean it's ok or should just ignore it. Go into the Gamergate thread and say that about gender/orientation harassment and see where that goes.
Harassment is worse than, though sometimes the product of, what we are talking about here, but it's something that some argue just comes with the territory of gaming and just deal with it.
It also shits up the communication between players and the industry. I still remember people being baffled about why industry members and the media were talking down to the audience after Mass Effect 3 while they typed some of the most horrid things. The few people actually making the case on why the endings were terrible were drowned out by those type of posts and made it easy for the problems to get ignored to continue on as if nothing happened. Same with resolutiongate.
I generally used to be much more up in arms about things I didn't like in gaming a year or two ago compared to now when I've seen the same patterns repeat so many times. When I see obvious hyperbole, like that weird Polygon article about how good DA:I's writing was and how "writing is improved with the evolving of technology" or some such nonsense, I do still shudder but I may just leave a comment or ignore it compeletely instead of ranting about it or being genuinely mad about it.
Pretty much.
Yeah its pretty tiresome but I've grown to ignore that kind of stuff. And it doesn't seem like its an appropriate reaction to hype.
If you fall for hype/extreme claims/marketing once or twice, then you can claim it was on the dev/pubs but after that it is all you. Overreacting because you fooled yourself doesn't make sense.
If you fall for hype/extreme claims/marketing once or twice, then you can claim it was on the dev/pubs but after that it is all you. Overreacting because you fooled yourself doesn't make sense.
oh don't worry i'm far from saying it's okay, i'm always the one complaining about overly negative people... But let's be real here, I don't see it changing anytime soon unless we get our names and actual faces into play
Devil's advocate
Member
When i first started reading online forums back in 2000 or so, i was seriously shocked at the level of discourse. People were hating on perfectly fine games just because they weren't on their system of choice.
After a while i got used to it and, where possible, tried to see the humour in the madness. Last gen was a particularly good time for that with sony execs making crazy statements, the red ring of death and the wii making people think the age of hardcore games was over.
Sadly people now seem to argue over topics like feminism, representation of minorities in games and so on, which makes for far less funny flamewars since the topics actually matter. I still managed to get a few good laughs out of GG, but for the most part those guys are just depressing.
In a certain way i find myself waiting for the next screwup by a big publisher.
After a while i got used to it and, where possible, tried to see the humour in the madness. Last gen was a particularly good time for that with sony execs making crazy statements, the red ring of death and the wii making people think the age of hardcore games was over.
Sadly people now seem to argue over topics like feminism, representation of minorities in games and so on, which makes for far less funny flamewars since the topics actually matter. I still managed to get a few good laughs out of GG, but for the most part those guys are just depressing.
In a certain way i find myself waiting for the next screwup by a big publisher.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
I can see that. Personally I find it a little annoying that these days we seem to have sanctioned positivity and negativity threads for certain games. Would be nice if people could discuss both perspectives in a single thread without it going to shit.
Thread mentions hyperbole which goes both ways. If this is just another thread complaining about criticism then I think it's dumb to blame one side when the extreme opinions exist on both. Thats why the conflict happens and threads go to shit. For example theres lot of complaining about drive by posts but those only work if people freak out and quote them endlessly.
Teletraan1
Banned
For too many people everything is either the greatest in the history of existence or the worst in the history of existence. 1 or 0. There is no middle ground. Lots of crazy extremes to prove some point. The point is then diminished to me because I can't take anyone seriously who tries to discuss anything from those positions. Hate and Cynicism I can get behind because of the nature of this industry. There are some really shady things that occur in this industry and people shouldn't just pump sunshine all day.
I think what bothers me the most on this board is the constant shit posting or posting just a meme that consists of a few words. These posts add absolutely nothing to the conversation and I have to read past them to get to anything meaningful. The first 100 posts of a lot of threads are often pure garbage. I wish people would be more selective in their posts here. Is the 30th Shocking News post really necessary? Or the 40th Dat [topic]? I hope not.
I think what bothers me the most on this board is the constant shit posting or posting just a meme that consists of a few words. These posts add absolutely nothing to the conversation and I have to read past them to get to anything meaningful. The first 100 posts of a lot of threads are often pure garbage. I wish people would be more selective in their posts here. Is the 30th Shocking News post really necessary? Or the 40th Dat [topic]? I hope not.
L4DANathan
Member
Precisely this. OP, I think you're projecting a lot. I have only seen a scant few cases of people railing against a company for no good reason. If you're not someone who will despise or be cautious of a company on principle, that's fine, but don't go thinking that the people who do are just mindless drones railing against things just because they can. If you see someone who seems to be going a bit overboard, ASK THEM WHY. I guarantee, 9 out of 10 times, they will be capable of giving you a proper answer (at least here on GAF).
I think there is a difference between avoiding certain threads, and having to avoid every thread about games you like because it gets invaded by the usual suspects whose sole purpose is to say
"game is shit" "why are you still playing that' blah blah blah.
All that does is derail the OP of the thread.
I go into the thread to discuss the topic, walk into a shit storm instead
I. E. Destiny related threads.
The easy answer is ignore people, but then it's like I'm doing myself a disservice because they may act more mature in a topic that is more to their liking, or something I may even agree with.
The Shogun
Banned
This is the internet in general. I'm a huge MMA fan and any forum / news articles I click on for it is nothing but wars and hate.
GAF actually has more great discussion than almost any forum I've ever seen. All you have to do is look for it. Nearly all of the OT for individual games is great discussion. Of course there will be threads filled with anger / arguing but thats called people having opinions.
GAF actually has more great discussion than almost any forum I've ever seen. All you have to do is look for it. Nearly all of the OT for individual games is great discussion. Of course there will be threads filled with anger / arguing but thats called people having opinions.
This will only get worse since companies are more focused on marketing a certain vision of the game as opposed to actually making that vision come true.
The defence force is something that actually gets to me. Very few industries defend their shitty products and such blatant false advertising as this one. For Gods sake, vertical slices and bullshots are the norm here. This circus should be compared to the fashion industry as opposed to movies.
The defence force is something that actually gets to me. Very few industries defend their shitty products and such blatant false advertising as this one. For Gods sake, vertical slices and bullshots are the norm here. This circus should be compared to the fashion industry as opposed to movies.
John Kowalski
Banned
You're free to make it, but perhaps you should first stop doing it yourself.
ArkkAngel007
Member
I doubt that'd change either. Doesn't stop people on Facebook, Youtube, or family gatherings.
And yeah, that's the sad reality of it. But if GAFers want people to listen, they should strive to be worth listening to without hiding behind a 'consumer' tag.
I can certainly agree with the "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" phrase, although sometimes marketing PR from some publishers/devs go further than what should be classified as naivety and falls more on deception and anti-consumer manipulation resulting in legal-theft.
Definitely some practices iv seen would be classified as illegal in some countries, so certain 'reactions' can be forgiven based on subjective POV.
I, as much as most oxygen breathers are guilty of hyperbole but objectively I don't rate it.
Felix Lighter
Member
For the most part, the hyperbole of internet is something I've learned to accept. I know it is very common and seems to be a way to cut through the crowd to get noticed, however, there are a lot of people here and other places on the internet that do not resort to it. It only becomes frustrating when it actually derails a quality discussion.
That doesn't appear to have happened in this thread. Are you referring to something else?
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Generally I disagree. I find more honest opinions outside of the OTs which have a tendency to push out anyone with criticisms. Not the case in all OTs but a lot of them.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
The hyperbole and hate get very old, very quickly. If you believed in it, GAF would only approve of about 2% of the games put out these days.
People around these parts like to throw around "crap", "garbage", "broken" and "ugly" as if they are speaking facts. I think people forget that their opinions are just that, opinion, not fact. It's easy to see when people are trolling for the sake of it, and when others are trying to beat a dead horse to dust.
All in all, just learn to not care what some nobody across the country(or world) thinks about something and focus on what you think. Rolling your eyes at negativity and moving on without commenting is a skill a lot of people need to learn. Took me a long time. Assholes want you to reply to them, usually because they need attention, like a baby cries for the bottle.
People around these parts like to throw around "crap", "garbage", "broken" and "ugly" as if they are speaking facts. I think people forget that their opinions are just that, opinion, not fact. It's easy to see when people are trolling for the sake of it, and when others are trying to beat a dead horse to dust.
All in all, just learn to not care what some nobody across the country(or world) thinks about something and focus on what you think. Rolling your eyes at negativity and moving on without commenting is a skill a lot of people need to learn. Took me a long time. Assholes want you to reply to them, usually because they need attention, like a baby cries for the bottle.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
The random unprovoked FFXIII hate on any forums got to me eventually. I know its not the best game ever but I enjoy it and the constant vitriol just started driving me nuts after a while
Its probably why I nearly subconsciously complain about FFXIV:ARR unprovoked
Its probably why I nearly subconsciously complain about FFXIV:ARR unprovoked
The Shogun
Banned
I was referring to a place to have more positive discussion instead of one with a negative connotation.
I'm willing to bet most members agree, and official policy reflects that wish. The mods, for their part, do a very good job of containing the worst of it. But of course you're always going to have tricksters and shape shifters, especially when some level of anonymity is involved. The only advice I can give is to do what I so often forget to do: don't get pulled into the bullshit. The more the obvious troll attempts are ignored, the easier it will be to engage in respectful discussion and debate. There are a number of members that do this, so I usually skim through to find their comments when things get bad.
AntiFacebook
Member
For every game ever made,there would be someone on the internet saying it is shit.
You just have to learn to ignore such things.
You just have to learn to ignore such things.
John Kowalski
Banned
If you can explain how this post isn't declaring the developers responsible for the hyperbolic hatred they are subject to, you'll win a very special place in my heart.
Yep, longtime Fedor fan here and holy hell there is very little middle ground when discussing his career. Same thing happens with Formula One. It's too bad, but it's also not unexpected that people will get heated when discussing something they're interested in because it arouses their passions.
Thats the thing...not every person who likes a game (say Destiny) likes EVERYTHING about it.
I liked Destiny for what it was. The story was ass, the missions were repetitive, and wooo boy dat ending. It is a crazy flawed game. However, I enjoyed what I played of it. Playing though it once with a friend was fun. That doesn't mean I'm okay with the story being bad or the poor mission design or them not living up to their own hype (not talking about the DLC since...I didn't and won't buy it). All of that stuff is bad and should be fixed. However, I'm not going to rag on and on about it for days either. Nor am I going to go into a thread about someone else enjoying it and go "WELL THEY LIED ABOUT THIIIIIIS". Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
Bu-but it is just criticism isn't a good excuse to be a twat. Like If you don't like a thing and have made your point about why you don't...then why do you feel like people need to keep hearing it unless asked for it?
People who enjoy these flawed things generally aren't defending the bullshots,or the awful practices. Those things simply weren't enough to ruin their enjoyment of the product and they'd like to be able to discuss said product without being not so subtly being called a whore or a shill.
SliceSabre
Banned
I tend to tune people out when their response about a game is that it is garbage. The way some people attack a game would make you think the game pissed in their cornflakes that morning or something.
I can understand someone not liking a game and not wanting to play it, but feeling the need to bury it under a mountain of vitriol and down talking it and outwardly expressing your wish nobody play it just seems utterly immature.
I can understand someone not liking a game and not wanting to play it, but feeling the need to bury it under a mountain of vitriol and down talking it and outwardly expressing your wish nobody play it just seems utterly immature.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
The bolded advice is spot on. I always regret it when I do, it's never worth it. In fact that makes me realise I've spent too much time today complaining about what others post so I'm going to bail and go play some games
Last two paragraphs nailed it, and made me laugh a little. Highfive.gif
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
Would it have made more sense if I said publishers? Just because something is hyperbolic doesn't mean it's unwarranted. An exaggerated criticism of something can have a useful purpose.
This isn't to say that all of the hyperbolic posts fall under this, or even most of them, but threads like the AC:Unity thread about the bugs/framerate issues need to happen. It isn't to say the game isn't terrible, but when the vast majority of what publishers see is seeming support for clearly rushed out products, then they have no impetus to fix things the next time or do better.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Not gonna lie, I'm pretty fed up on it. I quit reading reviews a long time when they were sometimes paid PR or had no idea what they were talking about (See fighting games). It wasn't there it was reviewers not being critical enough and giving games a high score (pretty Nintendo games). However it also comes down the people who read the reviews and take them as fact (see the Uncharted 3 backlash). Or when it comes to games like DmC (as I was explaining in the DmC: DE thread) that it's worth being more open to games than calling it complete or regurgitating what other people said to form as your own opinion. Especially when inconsistencies are made between games and points.
So fuck it, everyone sucks in my book.
So fuck it, everyone sucks in my book.
It's impossible to discuss Assassin's Creed Unity in any thread without wading through a cesspool of scholars who have not played the game, but can't resist the impulse to sound off about how it's a terrible game, and people who played it and enjoyed it are contributing to the downfall of gaming.
If you play something and it sucks, please share your experience with it. If not, you're just making a lot of noise.
If you play something and it sucks, please share your experience with it. If not, you're just making a lot of noise.
Devil's advocate
Member
At least with multiplatform games he's kind of right. I don't want to blame devs/publishers entirely, but there is definitly at least a correlation between how much a game gets hyped and how much it's hated on after release if it disappointed someone somehow.
All games that have gotten large amount of hate in the last few years are games that had high hopes placed on them. Diablo 3, Sim City 5, Mass Effect 3 and so on are all games gamers wanted to be good. Games like "Ride to Hell: Retribution" that barely anyone cared about, don't seem to get much hate at all even if they suck.
So hyping the hell out of mediocre games definitly contributes to the problem.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
LOL, amazingly funny post.
Conversely, though, there are games that GAF has hailed as the Best Thing Since Sliced Bread, only for them to fall way short of my expectations. (I'm looking at you, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze!)
To answer the OP's question: No, not anymore.
It is the internet, which means it is difficult to avoid hyperbole and massive amounts of love/hate towards things. Being eternally moderate on most issues/things, including gaming, I used to feel "left out" of very passionate conversations. Until I realized it's the internet and people get worked up over nothing. So now I make my contributions to threads/topics/etc and move on. I also generally tend to stay away from incendiary threads or posts, which are easy to sniff out based on the tone that is set, quite often, in either the OP itself or the first/second response. There was a recent thread where some dude literally posted something along the lines of " **ck the haters, Nintendo 4 life. " I promptly left that thread and didn't read it again. That extreme fanboy nonsense has no place in my life, my time is too limited as it is.
I don't like if people offend others for their taste, but i don't find being a twat towards a certain product to be problematic. If you have issue with people telling you how bad that game is then you should also have issues with people telling you how good it is. You can't just conduct a discussion in a one way street on the basis of not wanting to hear different opinions, even if you heard them a thousand times already.
SlasherJPC
Banned
It's not just that. It's for various reasons. I might dumpsome streams on there but yeah I don't have the will to continue in a area that seems to favor gimmicks, hatred, and drama. It's much better off this way and I have GAF!
LookAtMeGo
Member
I'm sure it does but that is their job to hype up their products, thats business. The onus should be on us to properly inform ourselves about something before we spend money on it. If anyone expects a publisher or developer to talk about their games mediocrity they need to remove their head from their ass.
John Kowalski
Banned
No, it made perfect sense, and you could alter the target of you post as many times as you wanted, it would still be as bad, though perhaps at some point it would lose all sense. And hyperbolic opining that is defined by its vitriolic content is never warranted, and shouldn't even be considered criticism in the first place. Being uncomfortable with marketing vernacular in marketing material is one thing, but thinking that you are somehow harming them justifiably for being lied to is asinine. But perhaps you'd rather think that there are no victims, that no one is affected by vitriol on the internet, irregardless of how constant it is.
Documenting bugs and design problems is one thing, using those as a reason to call a game shit (among other even more offensive expletives), to say it isn't worth its price, to continuously discredit Ubisoft as a whole, and a wider yet range of opinionated attacks on the developer's and the publisher's integrity is another.
TheLetdown
Member
These threads have been pretty prevalent lately. So, to answer the thread's question, you're not the only one.
But here's an idea for a new thread that I just had: Is the anti-hate, -hyperbole, and -cynicism getting to anyone else as much as the hate, hyperbole and cynicism? Are we to swing so hard the other way that we can no longer universally disparage or laud a game?
I just like what I like. I'm ready to defend that until the point where I don't feel like it because I'm remarkably lazy.
But here's an idea for a new thread that I just had: Is the anti-hate, -hyperbole, and -cynicism getting to anyone else as much as the hate, hyperbole and cynicism? Are we to swing so hard the other way that we can no longer universally disparage or laud a game?
I just like what I like. I'm ready to defend that until the point where I don't feel like it because I'm remarkably lazy.
KuroPyonyo
Banned
I didn't say it is bad, just I wouldn't do it, I would rather play great game x then tell other people about it.
Don't know why, but it really seems like it's less likley that a happy person posts then an angry person. If you don't keep that in mind it results in a skewed perspective on reality where everyone is grumpy about everything.
Projecting much? Higher standards are nothing more but simply higher standards.
There is nothing inherently good or bad about having higher or lower. If someone insits on 8k resolution in his games you can laugh at him.
But when trying to answer why there is so much hate/cynicism, then the answer could be that the general market rewards lower standards with sales which might not make the enthusiast very happy. Just my theory based of nothing, but my gut.
Don't you want to add hyperbolic? Then ya got yourself the top 3 words gaf likes to throw at things it doesn't like without having to formulate a proper argument.
Now if you three excuse me, I have to gloat because my elitist's ass toys are just of such higher standards then some random persons on the internet. Which is of course very important \s
Devil's advocate
Member
Unfortunately the publisher control the information and the gaming media tends to go along with that.
For example no review mentioned that ME3s ending was going to be what it was.
So blaming the consumer is a bit problematic, particularly when the game in question is well reviewed, by a prestigious developer and part of an acclaimed series. And most hate targets seem to be one or several of those.
Again, there would be hate anyway for other reasons like platform fanboyism, but some of it stems from the fact that it's very easy for major dissapointments to happen.
I'll go even further and say forums like represents people in general pretty well.
Generally speaking, mister everybody thinks in "like / don't like", "yes and no", "black and white". Nuances aren't ala mode. Most people pretty much don't have any and opinions are, most of time, extremely linear. This is what happens when, like in most place of the world, we don't value education of a person over and education in order to shape the next needed worker. This dumbness that is generalised through the world and therefore lack of maturity as people is reflected into everything we produce or create, including opinions and forum posts.
Generally speaking, mister everybody thinks in "like / don't like", "yes and no", "black and white". Nuances aren't ala mode. Most people pretty much don't have any and opinions are, most of time, extremely linear. This is what happens when, like in most place of the world, we don't value education of a person over and education in order to shape the next needed worker. This dumbness that is generalised through the world and therefore lack of maturity as people is reflected into everything we produce or create, including opinions and forum posts.
JamesSteve
Banned
That's very true. The hate that Max Payne 3 gets is absolutely ridiculous. One of the greatest 3rd person shooters I've ever played and yet people strongly criticize it. Pathetic.