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[mysteriousmage09]

MS has seriously gone off the deep end.

 

[Zinthar]

Yeah, I remember when the HD disc format movie war was being wages and Bill said that it doesn't matter because the future of movies was streaming. People were laughing at him thinking he was nuts. Look where we are now.

I don't think people were laughing at him at all about that, and it was accepted as truth in the future because it had already happened to the music industry.

But, it was also claimed, and still is true, that for videophiles Blu-ray movies are still far ahead of streaming.

I'm actually surprised that Blu-ray is still kicking around as well as it has -- at the beginning of the HD disc format war I thought that by 2013 disc-based media would be all but dead and many new movies would skip blu-ray release altogether.

I think the reason digital hasn't taken movies and console games by storm quite as quickly as it did with music and mobile apps is because there's no inherent, significant advantage to digital ownership in those spaces. With music and mobile apps, the ability to have everything instantly accessible in one device is key because you're constantly flipping from one song or app to the next, spending no more than a few minutes with each at a time.

With movies, you're going to put the disc in and spend two hours watching it, and then put it back on a shelf and not touch it for months. The modicum of convenience gained from digital ownership of it is at least partially offset by lacking the ability to put it in your physical collection. And the number of people who care about the visual and audio quality difference between the two formats is still significant as well.

With console gaming, the move to digital ruins certain social aspects that are very important to many. The ability to put a game in a box and drop the disc in a friend's machine is a core part of console gaming culture. I occasionally swap games with colleagues at work, as well (although I'm primarily a PC gamer).

On my PC, digital is clearly the only way to go. But I have nearly 200 games that span two decades of gaming, and a 3TB hard drive to install them to. And swapping discs with friends was never part of PC gaming culture to begin with. And, most importantly, the inability to re-sell games is more than offset by the dirt cheap cost of buying them new on PC.

Frankly, the only way that Microsoft can justify a full switch to DD is by getting pricing down rapidly -- for instance, the way that Dishonored was already just $30 on Steam during the Christmas sale a couple of months after launch. But, of course, if Microsoft can do that, Sony can certainly match those sales with their DD pricing. But at least it would be up to consumers to weigh paying more for disc-based media with resale value, or purchasing the game for less upfront with no resale.

At least with Gen1 hardware, the PS4 is in a much better position to be a great box to buy DD games for simply because it has a user replaceable HDD. Want a 1TB or more HDD because you have 30 games? Done. Want a fast 256GB SSD to save yourself from Gran Turismo's awful load times? Done.

 

[RkOwnage]

Hung out with a bunch of friends tonight that from November 2005 until now had an Xbox 360, and we enjoyed many nights of party chat, Gears marathons, and Borderlands insanity. Seems everyone tonight has decided on PS4, myself and a good friend already preordered and paid off our PS4s, we're converted.

Of course, I don't speak for everyone, but I consider everyone in that room loyal Xbox 360 fans, and we're just disgusted. Of course, we don't religiously play Call of Duty, which apparently is king on Xbox...but I dunno.

on topic: Yeah, Mattrick's a tool.

 

[bumclot]

Mattrick: "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called xbox 360"

This makes it seem like a joke interview or an ill advised twitter post. Amazing.

 

[Jasper Avenue]

Mattrick always looks like he just farted.

 

[True Underdog]

Mattrick: "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called xbox 360"

Wow. That sounds like just straight up trolling.

 

[Dead Man]

I don't think people were laughing at him at all about that, and it was accepted as truth in the future because it had already happened to the music industry.

But, it was also claimed, and still is true, that for videophiles Blu-ray movies are still far ahead of streaming.

I'm actually surprised that Blu-ray is still kicking around as well as it has -- at the beginning of the HD disc format war I thought that by 2013 disc-based media would be all but dead and many new movies would skip blu-ray release altogether.

I think the reason digital hasn't taken movies and console games by storm quite as quickly as it did with music and mobile apps is because there's no inherent, significant advantage to digital ownership in those spaces. With music and mobile apps, the ability to have everything instantly accessible in one device is key because you're constantly flipping from one song or app to the next, spending no more than a few minutes with each at a time.

With movies, you're going to put the disc in and spend two hours watching it, and then put it back on a shelf and not touch it for months. The modicum of convenience gained from digital ownership of it is at least partially offset by lacking the ability to put it in your physical collection. And the number of people who care about the visual and audio quality difference between the two formats is still significant as well.

With console gaming, the move to digital ruins certain social aspects that are very important to many. The ability to put a game in a box and drop the disc in a friend's machine is a core part of console gaming culture. I occasionally swap games with colleagues at work, as well (although I'm primarily a PC gamer).

On my PC, digital is clearly the only way to go. But I have nearly 200 games that span two decades of gaming, and a 3TB hard drive to install them to. And swapping discs with friends was never part of PC gaming culture to begin with. And, most importantly, the inability to re-sell games is more than offset by the dirt cheap cost of buying them new on PC.

Frankly, the only way that Microsoft can justify a full switch to DD is by getting pricing down rapidly -- for instance, the way that Dishonored was already just $30 on Steam during the Christmas sale a couple of months after launch. But, of course, if Microsoft can do that, Sony can certainly match those sales with their DD pricing. But at least it would be up to consumers to weigh paying more for disc-based media with resale value, or purchasing the game for less upfront with no resale.

At least with Gen1 hardware, the PS4 is in a much better position to be a great box to buy DD games for simply because it has a user replaceable HDD. Want a 1TB or more HDD because you have 30 games? Done. Want a fast 256GB SSD to save yourself from Gran Turismo's awful load times? Done.

Good points in this post. Console gaming has had a different culture to PC gaming historically.

 

[slit]

Mattrick: "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called xbox 360"

Fortunately, there is also another product. The PS4.

 

[ERC198X]

It's worse. PS3 actually had potential, more powerful hardware, had no drm, didn't blocked used etc everything but the price was fine. They offer the inferior product in every imaginable way, shape or form AND want a higher price.

Those statements are laughable. I don't know what XBONE higher ups are thinking...

Precisely

Sony f'ed up early this gen, but it pales in comparison to the xbone circus

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Hung out with a bunch of friends tonight that from November 2005 until now had an Xbox 360, and we enjoyed many nights of party chat, Gears marathons, and Borderlands insanity. Seems everyone tonight has decided on PS4, myself and a good friend already preordered and paid off our PS4s, we're converted.

Of course, I don't speak for everyone, but I consider everyone in that room loyal Xbox 360 fans, and we're just disgusted. Of course, we don't religiously play Call of Duty, which apparently is king on Xbox...but I dunno.

on topic: Yeah, Mattrick's a tool.

I think this exact situation is going to play out all over the place.

 

[Clownboat]

There was a point in time when people would say, "All I want my Kinect to do is not record me masturbating on the couch and upload it to an NSA datacenter."

 

[RdN]

What a jerk statement.. Fuck!

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Geoff Keighley had an interview with Don Mattrick (recorded pre conference) - here are some excerpts:


Keighley:"Did you know or did you anticipate the way the people would push back?"
Mattrick:"Absolutely - it's a super passionate community of people... till you use it [Xbox One] it's really hard to understand what all the advantages are."
________________________________________________________

Mattrick: "Xbox has been created by gamers for gamers."
________________________________________________________

Mattrick: "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called xbox 360"
________________________________________________________

Mattrick: "The avarage internet connection is working the majority of the day - people are imagining that it isn't... It's change. There was a point in time when people would say all i want my phone to do is make a phonecall."


more can be found here: link

I wonder what people like Shamus Blackley and J Allard have to say about this.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

It's very strong.

And ironically smells like bullshit.

 

[NullPointer]

With movies, you're going to put the disc in and spend two hours watching it, and then put it back on a shelf and not touch it for months. The modicum of convenience gained from digital ownership of it is at least partially offset by lacking the ability to put it in your physical collection. And the number of people who care about the visual and audio quality difference between the two formats is still significant as well.

This is why I don't buy movies anymore. I can just rent them in HD, and if I want to watch them again in a few months I can rent them again.

Games are different for me because I look for replayability and multiple modes of play. And they're so damn hardware dependent.

But I'm fine with a full on digital future, starting today. Forcing it upon people who don't want it is a huge fuckup though.

 

[TAJ]

Im really tired and the situation never affected me so I dont feel like researching but doesnt Sony allows 3 instances? I'm sure it affects some people but not enough that I've seen it widespread. I've got infinite BOGO across my Android devices but I'm not interested in sharing my account, no matter what I get on it. Between PS3 and Android, heck Kindle also, I've never felt the impulse to give anything away.

I meant without sharing your account info, or sharing with any other accounts.

 

[womfalcs3]

Mattrick: "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called the PS4."

Fixed.

 

[perryfarrell]

This whole debate reminds me of when Diablo 3 came out for PC, and everyone was up in arms about the fact that a single-player game required an always-on connection.

Given that PC usually is a bit ahead of consoles, and has a customer base perhaps more open to change, it's no surprise that an even worse shitstorm has erupted.

But seriously, it's a losing proposition to resist the always-online. It's pretty clear it allows developers to provide better products, that customers will prefer.

(This doesn't address the used game policy, of course.)

 

[faridmon]

It is really sad that we are celebrating something that should be an entitlement to us consumer in the first just because one company's actions.

Sony is not doing good, but they are good just because Msoft were acting like an asshole.

 

[plagiarize]

I wonder what people like Shamus Blackley and J Allard have to say about this.

Shamus would try to take credit for all the good ideas and none of the bad, and J Allard would just stand their looking sharp.

 

[Satchel]

That's fine, but tell us the advantages then. Show us.

Jason Rubin on Bonus Round Live summed it up perfectly when he agreed that the current model needs to change, but said Microsoft is doing it with a stick and without the carrot.

I expect Xbox One games to be cheaper than their PS4 counterparts as a result of the new model. If not, then epic fail.

Everyone will have different idea of what an advantage is to them.

For me personally, discless gaming while still owning a disc is HUGE. Like Steam, buy with a safety net.

I'm aware I would be in the minority though.

 

[funkystudent]

They are missing the point so bad on this issue its crazy.

 

[Metroidvania]

Wow. Just watched the video. He backtracks quickly, but actually says flat-out, 'if you don't have internet, buy a 360, because it's an offline device'.

Geez, Matrick, way to come off as an absolute douche.

edit: and then he goes on to say 'wait til you play it'. It's your damn job to frame the way the console is being received.

 

[$h@d0w]

J Allard would just stand their looking sharp.

Allard's hoodie and blazer combo still give me goosebumps.

 

[A Black Falcon]

That's fine, but tell us the advantages then. Show us.

Jason Rubin on Bonus Round Live summed it up perfectly when he agreed that the current model needs to change, but said Microsoft is doing it with a stick and without the carrot.

I expect Xbox One games to be cheaper than their PS4 counterparts as a result of the new model. If not, then epic fail.

Jason Rubin said that publishers should get money when people sell "used" games to eachother. No, that is not how ownership works!

 

[B.O.O.M]

God the sheer arrogance in those words. Basically saying, no good net connection? Go buy a 360

Amazing..just truly amazing

 

[njean777]

I don't think people were laughing at him at all about that, and it was accepted as truth in the future because it had already happened to the music industry.

But, it was also claimed, and still is true, that for videophiles Blu-ray movies are still far ahead of streaming.

I'm actually surprised that Blu-ray is still kicking around as well as it has -- at the beginning of the HD disc format war I thought that by 2013 disc-based media would be all but dead and many new movies would skip blu-ray release altogether.

I think the reason digital hasn't taken movies and console games by storm quite as quickly as it did with music and mobile apps is because there's no inherent, significant advantage to digital ownership in those spaces. With music and mobile apps, the ability to have everything instantly accessible in one device is key because you're constantly flipping from one song or app to the next, spending no more than a few minutes with each at a time.

With movies, you're going to put the disc in and spend two hours watching it, and then put it back on a shelf and not touch it for months. The modicum of convenience gained from digital ownership of it is at least partially offset by lacking the ability to put it in your physical collection. And the number of people who care about the visual and audio quality difference between the two formats is still significant as well.

With console gaming, the move to digital ruins certain social aspects that are very important to many. The ability to put a game in a box and drop the disc in a friend's machine is a core part of console gaming culture. I occasionally swap games with colleagues at work, as well (although I'm primarily a PC gamer).

On my PC, digital is clearly the only way to go. But I have nearly 200 games that span two decades of gaming, and a 3TB hard drive to install them to. And swapping discs with friends was never part of PC gaming culture to begin with. And, most importantly, the inability to re-sell games is more than offset by the dirt cheap cost of buying them new on PC.

Frankly, the only way that Microsoft can justify a full switch to DD is by getting pricing down rapidly -- for instance, the way that Dishonored was already just $30 on Steam during the Christmas sale a couple of months after launch. But, of course, if Microsoft can do that, Sony can certainly match those sales with their DD pricing. But at least it would be up to consumers to weigh paying more for disc-based media with resale value, or purchasing the game for less upfront with no resale.

At least with Gen1 hardware, the PS4 is in a much better position to be a great box to buy DD games for simply because it has a user replaceable HDD. Want a 1TB or more HDD because you have 30 games? Done. Want a fast 256GB SSD to save yourself from Gran Turismo's awful load times? Done.

I think the main reason movies/games are not only digital is due to sizes of the movies/games. It takes me 3 hours to download a 8gb game. It is easier for me to go to the store and buy it, then download it in that case. The people saying digital is the future may be correct, but if the internet structure does not change rapidly in the next 5 years (which I do not see happening) then they are gonna have to wait longer for their digital dream to take over.

 

[plagiarize]

This whole debate reminds me of when Diablo 3 came out for PC, and everyone was up in arms about the fact that a single-player game required an always-on connection.

Given that PC usually is a bit ahead of consoles, and has a customer base perhaps more open to change, it's no surprise that an even worse shitstorm has erupted.

But seriously, it's a losing proposition to resist the always-online. It's pretty clear it allows developers to provide better products, that customers will prefer.

(This doesn't address the used game policy, of course.)

Microsoft still have to code their games to work offline though, as will all devs working on Xbone. They can only count on a daily check in, so most of the benefit devs would get of knowing everyone was always connected is lost. Nothing else always online forces a daily check in, so why does the Xbone?

Always online will happen organically. Trying to force it in a way that offers devs and consumers no benefits... It's monumentally stupid.

 

[Officerrob]

As someone who doesn't root for people to be fired or replaced, Mattrick needs to go. Hopefully the way this has been handled (and eventual sluggish sales) will lead to him being pushed out

 

[Evolution_1ne]

Jesus Christ Microsoft

 

[hyp3rlink]

So, any interviews of Don after the MS and Sony restaurant? I found Sony, Pachter and even couple of Nintendo interviews but nothing from any Microsoft exec. Really wanna see how they respond to Sony after what Jack said in the conference.

 

[teh_pwn]

This whole debate reminds me of when Diablo 3 came out for PC, and everyone was up in arms about the fact that a single-player game required an always-on connection.

Given that PC usually is a bit ahead of consoles, and has a customer base perhaps more open to change, it's no surprise that an even worse shitstorm has erupted.

But seriously, it's a losing proposition to resist the always-online. It's pretty clear it allows developers to provide better products, that customers will prefer.

(This doesn't address the used game policy, of course.)

No it doesn't.

Diablo 3 had a horrible framerate, server maintenance, and a broken game design in Inferno. I stopped playing. Torchlight 2 was much better.

 

[Zukuu]

"There was a point in time when people would say all i want my phone to do is make a phonecall."

Believe it or not, Don, those people are still around. I have an ipod touch for all the other shit. My phone is still a phone, because I'm one of those poor bastards which you have written off (apparently from even existing).

Hi!

I've a 4 year old phone or so, which's battery lasts for over a week. I only use it for phoning (surpirse), sms, calculator and notes. Well and as my watch. I don't feel the urge to be online 24/7. When I'm at home I already have that. Tho, I'm not a purist by any means, I just think the technology is not yet evolved enough for me to be interesting: Unless they have a battery which lasts for a week in standby I won't even consider picking one up. Yep, that's all I need. CBA to charge it prior to every time I want to go outside and therefore have to charge it daily / over night.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

This whole debate reminds me of when Diablo 3 came out for PC, and everyone was up in arms about the fact that a single-player game required an always-on connection.

Given that PC usually is a bit ahead of consoles, and has a customer base perhaps more open to change, it's no surprise that an even worse shitstorm has erupted.

But seriously, it's a losing proposition to resist the always-online. It's pretty clear it allows developers to provide better products, that customers will prefer.

(This doesn't address the used game policy, of course.)

I wouldnt use Diablo 3 for that arguement, Id prefer Diablo 2 over 3 if I had to choose, it also doesn't help when their former project lead basically agreed that the auction house hurt the game (and was probably the primary reason to make the game always online).

Also why do DD devices need to check in? I can play my apps on my ipad offline, my gog.com account stuff offline, etc. This whole "its social, its the future, get with the times!" is a load. You can do all that without a mandatory check in. He's just trying to sugar coat their DRM.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

So what... buy a last gen console as an only option??? First I thought it was a typo ahahahahahahaha, can't stop laughing!

 

[NervousXtian]

On my PC, digital is clearly the only way to go. But I have nearly 200 games that span two decades of gaming, and a 3TB hard drive to install them to. And swapping discs with friends was never part of PC gaming culture to begin with. And, most importantly, the inability to re-sell games is more than offset by the dirt cheap cost of buying them new on PC.

Frankly, the only way that Microsoft can justify a full switch to DD is by getting pricing down rapidly -- for instance, the way that Dishonored was already just $30 on Steam during the Christmas sale a couple of months after launch. But, of course, if Microsoft can do that, Sony can certainly match those sales with their DD pricing. But at least it would be up to consumers to weigh paying more for disc-based media with resale value, or purchasing the game for less upfront with no resale.

First bold is false... pc gaming started entirely with sharing software, and it was a very large part of most PC gamers lives back in the day. If you're in your 30's and are a PC gamer you probably have fond memories of installing copies of Quake to all your friends PC and having all nighter LAN parties.

Sharing PC software went away for the same reasons it'll go away with consoles, it has nothing to do with historical significance of sharing.

Second bold.. I bought 2 copies of Dishonored on Black Friday for $25 for the 360 for my nephews. I got them from the MS store online.

 

[TheD]

Looks like everyone here is online to me. How many here have a console with a Ethernet cable plugged into it right now? Why people bitch about something they already have IDK.

smh.

It is not only about having internet that is up all the time (don't forget some places will not have at least 1.5Mb/s internet no matter what), it is about the main use of the console being tied to the whims of MS and their infrastructure (consoles are not supported for ever).

Also needing it to be online at least once every 24 hours makes it harder to avoid all the ads the self entitled cunts spam all over the place!

 

[larvi]

. till you use it [Xbox One] it's really hard to understand what all the advantages are."
________________________________________________________
/QUOTE]

Classic. Kind of like the infamous "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" line. And we know how well that has turned out.

But I'm good with them keeping the 360 infrastructure viable and running for years to come since I have no plans on upgrading and have a huge backlog for it still.

 

[Aristion]

I might be going against the tide on this one, but I am genuinely excited for the Xbox One. Will be getting both consoles anyway, but I think the new Xbox has amazing potential.

Anyway, as always, it will come down to how well the developers create games that use its unique features.

Mattrick, is that you?

 

[MercuryLS]

You can smell the arrogance.

Failure usually fixes that. Enjoy a long, painful gen MS.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

smh.

It is not only about having internet that is up all the time (don't forget some places will not have at least 1.5Mb/s internet no matter what), it is about the main use of the console being tied to the whims of MS and their infrastructure (consoles are not supported for ever).

Also needing it to be online at least once every 24 hours makes it harder to avoid all the ads the self entitled cunts spam all over the place!

Yep, if your in the military and your are deployed you are shit out of luck. If you live in a sweet mountain house with shit ass internet again no luck... plenty of reasons always on is a really bad idea!

 

[teh_pwn]

Yep, if your in the military and your are deployed you are shit out of luck. If you live in a sweet mountain house with shit ass internet again no luck... plenty of reasons always on is a really bad idea!

Or if you live in Austin and you're going to have Google Fiber, but you still don't find it relevant and you still don't want your time wasted with ads that have absolutely no right whatsoever being in my personal space and property. It would be as if Windows 8's start screen or background had ads.

 

[Brera]

it really rubs me the wrong way how geoff really goes in hard, raw, and completely without disregard for reggie's feelings as not only a businessman, but above all, a man, a hopeless, lost man. but mattrick gets off pretty easy.

Nintendo gotcha no Doritos and dew for the pope yo

 

[Off-Kilter]

Mattrick: "Xbox has been created by gamers for gamers."

Yeah I'm sure many gamers asked for this trainwreck. Haha even Xbox diehards are jumping off by the boatload.

Mattrick: "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called xbox 360"

Now this is just insulting. Never have I seen such an arrogant, downright condescending statement in this industry. You can go ahead and shove that Xbox up your ass Mattrick.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

What a arrogant prick.

Here's hoping that xbone sells as good as the og Xbox.

 

[teh_pwn]

Now this is just insulting. Never have I seen such an arrogant, downright condescending statement in this industry. You can go ahead and shove that Xbox up your ass Mattrick.

All in one, input one...

 

[Protein]

I hope this thing tanks HARD. I would give my left nut to see that happen.

 

[travisbickle]

The thing is that the devs can count on it, a helluva lot more than devs for the PS4. There's no back of box stuff surprises, and no catering to a split subset of users.

They are only going to be catering to a split subset of users, the machine doesn't work without Internet!

 

[Xbudz]

Maybe Microsoft are sending Xbox One out to die so they can have a fresh console to go in 4 years when Nintendo has a new machine ready.

 

[abic]

This is amazing I love how Microsoft are approaching this generation!