• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

DOOM on Switch confirmed to have motion controls [Up: Waggle, not gyro]

You'd see riots in the streets if anyone on PS4 even attempted to make motion aiming any kind of standard.

And I'd be there rioting.
Lol, that's pretty lame, imo. That's like if you were ready to fight against dual analog because you're too used to restricted camera control in early 3D games. Gyro assist is flat out better than without. It enables a finer degree of aim control and can be tied to a button. It's the best way to play PC shooters with a controller.

I swear it seems like some of you played Golden Abyss and wrote off gyro entirely
 
I’m not sure I’d use gyro aiming in an FPS if it was available. I enjoy it in tps’s, but idk. I think I’d get vertigo or motion sickness or something.

I’d definitely give it a shot though
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
There is a guy that tears Doom up with a Steam Controller and motion controls. The console people needs to allow you to customize your controls on a OS level in the way Steam Controller API works. No one can complain about people using gyro controls when it's a option you put in yourself.

This is one of his older videos, but on a more recent live youtube video going for leader boards he was doing some impressive stuff. His gyro controls mostly the vertical aiming iirc. He has guides on how he sets it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW3B0slwCA0

I use gyro on all my games that have aiming in it now. Mostly on aim down sight situations.

I just noticed this on Big Picture Mode.

G14YccU.jpg
 

Trup1aya

Member
Lol, that's pretty lame, imo. That's like if you were ready to fight against dual analog because you're too used to restricted camera control in early 3D games. Gyro assist is flat out better than without. It enables a finer degree of aim control and can be tied to a button. It's the best way to play PC shooters with a controller.

I swear it seems like some of you played Golden Abyss and wrote off gyro entirely

People continue to judge it by poor implementations from the past.
 

Josman

Member
How on earth is gyro aiming still not a standard option for every game? It's so ridiculously simple and good, specially compared to analog sticks that it shouldn't even be a question
 

Trace

Banned
Lol, that's pretty lame, imo. That's like if you were ready to fight against dual analog because you're too used to restricted camera control in early 3D games. Gyro assist is flat out better than without. It enables a finer degree of aim control and can be tied to a button. It's the best way to play PC shooters with a controller.

I swear it seems like some of you played Golden Abyss and wrote off gyro entirely

I would rather use MKB or some derivative off that. Much better control and should be perused rather than motion control derivatives.
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Is there something in the engine that would make this difficult to implement? Gyro aiming seems like a no-brainer and one of the first features they should have locked down.
 

rjc571

Banned
How on earth is gyro aiming still not a standard option for every game? It's so ridiculously simple and good, specially compared to analog sticks that it shouldn't even be a question

Blame MS for releasing their standard controllers without gyro
 
Ever since Resident 4 on the Wii I’ve longed for motion controls to become a standard for aiming. Just feels so much more natural and intuitive. People mistook dissatisfaction with lazy implmentation of motion controls (like this waggle to glory kill option actually) for an overall notice that motion controls should go the way of the dodo.

That said I’m one of the few people that preferred Twilight Princess on the Wii because even that limited motion control for the sword was satisfying. I’m disappointed BotW didn’t have the same option.
 
I would rather use MKB or some derivative off that. Much better control and should be perused rather than motion control derivatives.

I mean, sure, whatever, but you gotta be realistic. I prefer mouse and keyboard over every other control scheme, generally speaking, but we're talking about gyro support, something anyone using a Switch dual analog controller could potentially take advantage of to improve their gameplay.
Gyro assist shouldn't be dismissed as a 'motion control derivative'. It's the single best application of motion control in traditional gaming, even beyond IR aiming. It allows for 1:1 (absolute) reliable and fast adjustments to your aim. It's the closest thing to mouselook on a controller.
 

D.Lo

Member
Gyro assist shouldn't be dismissed as a 'motion control derivative'. It's the single best application of motion control in traditional gaming, even beyond IR aiming. It allows for 1:1 (absolute) reliable and fast adjustments to your aim. It's the closest thing to mouselook on a controller.
It depends on the purpose, gyro is great for twitchy stuff, IR was great for extreme precision within a frame.

Both are however vastly superior to right stick aiming, which feels completely archaic after you use IR or gyro. After the DF Retro episode on Doom I've been playing Doom 3 on PS3 again recently and it feels so stupid now to use a stick (PS3 stick placement doesn't help either).

Really gyro is equivalent to a mouse, the only limitation is experience and possibly just different hand/wrist muscle application. It is literally as accurate as your wrists can make it, just like a mouse.
 

Lizardus

Member
It depends on the purpose, gyro is great for twitchy stuff, IR was great for extreme precision within a frame.

Both are however vastly superior to right stick aiming, which feels completely archaic after you use IR or gyro. After the DF Retro episode on Doom I've been playing Doom 3 on PS3 again recently and it feels so stupid now to use a stick (PS3 stick placement doesn't help either).

Really gyro is equivalent to a mouse, the only limitation is experience and possibly just different hand/wrist muscle application. It is literally as accurate as your wrists can make it, just like a mouse.

Well said. I still remember my first time with IR pointer controls being Medal of Honor Heroes 2 on the Wii. It was a shitty game even by 2007 standards but the controls and the control customization were sublime. It was a revelation how much better non-conventional controls could be for shooters. It also helped that it was the first major FPS on the Wii with an online scene (32 players!) and I played it for countless hours.

I haven't bought a shooter that only uses analogue sticks on consoles and prefer to play them on PC. BotW and Splatoon feel so natural with motion aiming and it's hard to go back. I hope that DOOM developers find a way to implement them after release.
 

Bunga

Member
I dunno, I'm playing BotW at the moment and I had to turn off the motion aiming. I guess I'm just accustomed to stick aim. For the first 2-3 hours I didn't actually know it had motion aiming and that it was on and thought the game had a built-in weapon sway system when aiming with bows to simulate holding the strings back and wavering in the wind/breathing etc. Turns out I had motion controls on and was trying to aim at the same time with the sticks!
 

Renekun

Neo Member
I was really looking forward and always expected Doom to make use of gyro controlls. It was a bummer when I heard it won't support it.

I am going to wait for a gyro patch, I guess. I want to play it though...
 

sirap

Member
No gyro? NoooooOOoooOOoo

Looks like a hard pass for me then. 30fps with only analog aiming is just too much of a compromise for a game like Doom.
 
I dunno, I'm playing BotW at the moment and I had to turn off the motion aiming. I guess I'm just accustomed to stick aim. For the first 2-3 hours I didn't actually know it had motion aiming and that it was on and thought the game had a built-in weapon sway system when aiming with bows to simulate holding the strings back and wavering in the wind/breathing etc. Turns out I had motion controls on and was trying to aim at the same time with the sticks!

So this time, only use the stick to turn, and use Gyro to aim, and see how that works for you.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
RIP AND TEAR WAGGLE YO love it.
best game to let it all out after a stressful week
 
Very disappointing. My first play through of DOOM in its entirety was with the Steam Controller, making very heavy use of gyro aiming, and it was a fantastic experience. I wasn’t planning on buying the Switch port due to it only being 30fps (it’s still incredible that they got it running at all on a handheld), but not having gyro aiming seals the deal.
 
I dunno, I'm playing BotW at the moment and I had to turn off the motion aiming. I guess I'm just accustomed to stick aim. For the first 2-3 hours I didn't actually know it had motion aiming and that it was on and thought the game had a built-in weapon sway system when aiming with bows to simulate holding the strings back and wavering in the wind/breathing etc. Turns out I had motion controls on and was trying to aim at the same time with the sticks!

you're supposed to use both at the same time. analog stick for sweeping adjustments and motion control for fine aim. it's not one or the other lol
 
Meh aiming with motion controls will always be worse then aiming with a controller for me.

Literally the only reason for that is because you're overly resistant to change, here. There's no other reason. 'Aiming with motion controls', or more accurately, having the ability to fine-tune your dual analog aim with gyro, is far more precise and enabling than aiming with just analog sticks.
It depends on the purpose, gyro is great for twitchy stuff, IR was great for extreme precision within a frame.

Both are however vastly superior to right stick aiming, which feels completely archaic after you use IR or gyro. After the DF Retro episode on Doom I've been playing Doom 3 on PS3 again recently and it feels so stupid now to use a stick (PS3 stick placement doesn't help either).

Really gyro is equivalent to a mouse, the only limitation is experience and possibly just different hand/wrist muscle application. It is literally as accurate as your wrists can make it, just like a mouse.

I wouldn't say that both are superior to right stick aiming. Gyro assist + right stick is absolutely superior to right stick on its own.

IR aiming is extremely accessible, but people tend to mistake that accessibility for precision or accuracy. IR aiming as it was implemented with the Wii Remote has heaps of caveats that keep me from making the argument that it's genuinely superior to dual analog controls, and that's an opinion borne from years of pondering and experimenting with the Wii Remote on Wii and PC.
 

rjc571

Banned
you're supposed to use both at the same time. analog stick for sweeping adjustments and motion control for fine aim. it's not one or the other lol

That's the main reason that IR aiming blows away gyro (and obviously joystick), it allows for both fine aim AND sweeping adjustments with ease. Having to switch between the two depending on the situation is unintuitive and both methods are still less precise than IR. It's very disappointing that Nintendo hasn't gone back to IR since the Wii.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Literally the only reason for that is because you're overly resistant to change, here. There's no other reason. 'Aiming with motion controls', or more accurately, having the ability to fine-tune your dual analog aim with gyro, is far more precise and enabling than aiming with just analog sticks.


I wouldn't say that both are superior to right stick aiming. Gyro assist + right stick is absolutely superior to right stick on its own.

IR aiming is extremely accessible, but people tend to mistake that accessibility for precision or accuracy. IR aiming as it was implemented with the Wii Remote has heaps of caveats that keep me from making the argument that it's genuinely superior to dual analog controls, and that's an opinion borne from years of pondering and experimenting with the Wii Remote on Wii and PC.

You have it backwards. Ir aiming is precise but not accessible at all.

It takes ton of fine tuning, calibrating, and requires a perfect setup.

Gyro and ir definitely better for precision. It's not even close. Just look at need for aim assist vs not needing it. What they are not good at is big camera movements, which is why right stick turning in splatoon makes the combination ideal.

It's fundamentally impossible for thumbstick aiming to be as precise as a mouse or mouse like inputs. You are inputting direction and velocity vs direction velocity and position directly.
 
That's the main reason that IR aiming blows away gyro (and obviously joystick), it allows for both fine aim AND sweeping adjustments with ease. It's very disappointing that Nintendo hasn't gone back to IR since the Wii.

I don't think IR blows away either, to be honest. The most notable thing about IR is that it allows for aiming that feels more natural and accessible, but gyro+dual analog allows for both fine aim and sweeping adjustments with greater ease, and dual analog on its own is more reliable in a lot of ways. Wii Remote IR for FPS aiming has caveats that a lot of people have overlooked over the years, the most notable and important of which being that, since it's a relative (as opposed to absolute) aiming system, turning and turn speed is determined by the on-screen location of the cursor, and so, for example, a player must constantly compensate for turning motion when aiming at even stationary targets which lie outside of the dead center of your screen.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I already have this on PC so without motion controls there really isnt a reason for me to get this :(
 
You have it backwards. Ir aiming is precise but not accessible at all.

It takes ton of fine tuning, calibrating, and requires a perfect setup.

Gyro and ir definitely better for precision. It's not even close. Just look at need for aim assist vs not needing it. What they are not good at is big camera movements, which is why right stick turning in splatoon makes the combination ideal.

It's fundamentally impossible for thumbstick aiming to be as precise as a mouse or mouse like inputs. You are inputting direction and velocity vs direction velocity and position directly.

IR aiming is not a mouse-like input. It's relative, not absolute. Turning and turn speed is determined by the location of your cursor on the screen - that's not how mouselook works.

Gyro, on the other hand, is actually mouse-like. It's absolute. That's why I'm such a huge advocate for it. It's reliable and precise, unlike IR aiming.
 

D.Lo

Member
IR aiming is extremely accessible, but people tend to mistake that accessibility for precision or accuracy.
?? I'd say the opposite. IR (for fast movement, not just light gun stuff) in inaccessible because it is more accurate. It took me a while to tweak up my settings in The Conduit, but I'm confident that I would have easily destroyed stick players if I were able to use it in 360 online shooters of the day.

Metroid Prime 3 was a good introduction to the method, but was too slow.

You have it backwards. Ir aiming is precise but not accessible at all.

It takes ton of fine tuning, calibrating, and requires a perfect setup.

Gyro and ir definitely better for precision. It's not even close. Just look at need for aim assist vs not needing it. What they are not good at is big camera movements, which is why right stick turning in splatoon makes the combination ideal.

It's fundamentally impossible for thumbstick aiming to be as precise as a mouse or mouse like inputs. You are inputting direction and velocity vs direction velocity and position directly.
Agreed.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
I don't think IR blows away either, to be honest. The most notable thing about IR is that it allows for aiming that feels more natural and accessible, but gyro+dual analog allows for both fine aim and sweeping adjustments with greater ease, and dual analog on its own is more reliable in a lot of ways. Wii Remote IR for FPS aiming has caveats that a lot of people have overlooked over the years, the most notable and important of which being that, since turning and turn speed is determined by the on-screen location of the cursor, you must constantly adjusti your aim in order to hit even stationary targets which are outside of the dead center of your screen (or in other words, outside of your cursor's 'bounding box'.

Thumbstick aiming requires aim assist. That's basically an argument ending fact.... :/

Also, for fps games the pointer didnt feel any more natural than a mouse. You didnt hold out your arm like a gun. It was just resting down on your side and using small movements to move a mouse in 3d
 
Thumbstick aiming requires aim assist. That's basically an argument ending fact.... :/

- Thumbsticks generally use aim assist as a standard, but allow for users to turn it off

> "Thumbstick aiming requires aim assist!"

- The Wii's most lauded shooters shipped with literal lock-on as a standard, but allow for users to turn it off

but that was for no reason

Also, for fps games the pointer didnt feel any more natural than a mouse. You didnt hold out your arm like a gun. It was just resting down on your side and using small movements to move a mouse in 3d

You would think that, going by my posts, I'm perfectly aware of that. I've owned and used a Wii. I've played around with IR aiming more than most, and not just on the Wii.
 

Tagyhag

Member
It would have been cool to see different aiming options, more choices for players.

Really gyro is equivalent to a mouse, the only limitation is experience and possibly just different hand/wrist muscle application. It is literally as accurate as your wrists can make it, just like a mouse.

I disagree, try using Gyro on Quake 3 vs a mouse with a really high DPI and see how that goes.
 
?? I'd say the opposite. IR (for fast movement, not just light gun stuff) in inaccessible because it is more accurate. It took me a while to tweak up my settings in The Conduit, but I'm confident that I would have easily destroyed stick players if I were able to use it in 360 online shooters of the day.

I played tons of Conduit and Conduit 2, and I was real good at them, too. I had twitchy controls set up, but I was never convinced, due to specific caveats, that I'd be able to reliably destroy dual-analog players with my setup.

I always wished for control scheme for those games where the cursor remains at the center of my screen and my IR aim simply turned my character at varying speeds. I think that decoupling screen-space aim and turning creates more problems than opportunities, and I felt like THAT would have been the control scheme that put IR way ahead of dual analog, for me.
 

D.Lo

Member
IR aiming is not a mouse-like input. It's relative, not absolute. Turning and turn speed is determined by the location of your cursor on the screen - that's not how mouselook works.

Gyro, on the other hand, is actually mouse-like. It's absolute. That's why I'm such a huge advocate for it. It's reliable and precise, unlike IR aiming.
You're talking about application, not tech. Unless you mouse is calibrated to move around a mouse pad that is exactly the same size as your computer screen, it is also relative. IR and mouse are much more similar than gyro, this is self-evident with a 'point and click' or lightgun game. You can also set IR aiming to work exactly like standard mouse quake setup, with no or a very small dead zone. So you turn instantly upon any move.

You're just pointing a Wii Remote at a screen instead of your mouse's sensor at a table/pad.

Also, you don't necessarily 'point at the screen' for IR either, it remains just as relative and configurable as a mouse for this reason - you are actually just pointing at two IR reference points, not the screen. As such it can be calibrated so that very small movements of the pointer mean big movements on screen, just like a mouse. The only difference is you can also change pointer sensitivity by changing distance from the screen/bar as well.

Gyro is really just a combination of (infinitely?) more accurate non-pivoted stick for looking up/down. The simplest example of this is in Mario Galaxy with the upright Wii Remote controlling tilt on a ball.

I agree gyro is better overall for shooters these days. But I didn't say IR was, I said it had specific applications that were, and that in my opinion both were superior to sticks.
 
You're talking about application, not tech. Unless you mouse is calibrated to move around a mouse pad that is exactly the same size as your computer screen, it is also relative. IR and mouse are much more similar than gyro, this is self-evident with a 'point and click' or lightgun game. You can also set IR aiming to work exactly like standard mouse quake setup, with no or a very small dead zone. So you turn instantly upon any move.

You're just pointing a Wii Remote at a screen instead of your mouse's sensor at a table/pad.

Gyro is really just a combination of (infinitely?) more accurate non-pivoted stick for looking up/down. The simplest example of this is in Mario Galaxy with the upright Wii Remote controlling tilt on a ball.
Mouselook is absolute. You don't need a mouse pad the size of your screen to make mouse-look absolute, that's not how you define absolute vs relative in this context.

Gyro assist is very close to identical to mouse-look in terms of how it actually works in practice and how your motions are interpreted into camera/cursor movement.
 
As anyone tried gyro controls in a 30fps game? Made they internally tested it and found out it played bad with twice the input lag compared to 60fps. I imagine gyro like mouselook is very sensitive to input lag
 
Top Bottom