• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

Status
Not open for further replies.

JustinBB7

Member
ok I tried some heroes against normal bots.

sniper: sucks =/, I mean the Q ability sucks and he can only kill with normal attack or the ulti, I thought he was a little better.

zeus: late game I killed a lot thanks to his ulti, I finished with 16 - 10 or so, he's nice but not too good at early game, right?

two heads dragon (dont remember the name): he's a tank or what? 'Cause when i use all my spells on someone he NEVER dies, not even close. so poor damage. dunno.

now I'm gonna try Lich and SK, SK seems very very easy since it's only a QQQQQQQ.
btw it's a shit playing with bots, some are really dumb. =|

Sniper sucks? Q sucks?

..ok..I think you should read some guides. I got sniper yesterday in a single draft match. His Q is great to last hit groups of creeps, slow down enemy heroes, and really helpful with taking down towers.

His normal attack can ministun and does a lot of damage if you get the right items. Specially attack speed increasing ones. I carried my team that match.

Zeus is a good early ganker, with a little help.

Jakiro is hard to learn if you're new because he has a slow turn speed, and his spells are slow. When I played him I got 10 kills early game, but then proceeded to die 11 times late game because I kept going in too close.

Lich and Skeleton King are the better starting heroes.
 

Davidion

Member
ok I tried some heroes against normal bots.

sniper: sucks =/, I mean the Q ability sucks and he can only kill with normal attack or the ulti, I thought he was a little better.

zeus: late game I killed a lot thanks to his ulti, I finished with 16 - 10 or so, he's nice but not too good at early game, right?

two heads dragon (dont remember the name): he's a tank or what? 'Cause when i use all my spells on someone he NEVER dies, not even close. so poor damage. dunno.

now I'm gonna try Lich and SK, SK seems very very easy since it's only a QQQQQQQ.
btw it's a shit playing with bots, some are really dumb. =|

Sniper: I think a common mistake that a lot of people make coming into the game is that a hero is only powerful when he has a lot of effects and casting power when in fact, many of the hard carries are substantial only because once they farm up a ton of items, their regular attack power goes through the roof. Sniper is one of these, though he can be pretty hard to use.

Zeus: he's actually pretty strong throughout, if not a stronger in the mid game.

bots: Bots often have no semblance of teamplay when you're on their team. When there's no human player on the team they coordinate between themselves pretty well. When you play bot games you do it to get a feel for your hero; the bots won't teach you teamwork which is key in an actual game.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
My god, Huskar is now my favorite hero.

Then again I only used him against bots, but it's the first time I made it through a match without dying, plus I got around twenty kills, made it to max level and single-handedly destroyed every building in their base.

Drow Ranger, you have been replaced. (I still love you though! <3)
 

Zareth

Member
ok I tried some heroes against normal bots.

sniper: sucks =/, I mean the Q ability sucks and he can only kill with normal attack or the ulti, I thought he was a little better.

zeus: late game I killed a lot thanks to his ulti, I finished with 16 - 10 or so, he's nice but not too good at early game, right?

two heads dragon (dont remember the name): he's a tank or what? 'Cause when i use all my spells on someone he NEVER dies, not even close. so poor damage. dunno.

now I'm gonna try Lich and SK, SK seems very very easy since it's only a QQQQQQQ.
btw it's a shit playing with bots, some are really dumb. =|

Sand King is a really good hero to start with especially once you get the hang of shift queuing with a blink ult stun combo and he is hard to not be useful even as a beginner since his stun is so good and he has multiple escape options you can fall back on.
 
there is plenty of time later in life to be a scum hero picker. u dun need AM to win.

So true. Never pick AM.

Although the worst part about AM is even a shitty player can wreck shit given enough time, as long as they just buy the right items. Ugh ughhh.

But yeah, never pick AM.

His Q is great to last hit groups of creeps, slow down enemy heroes, and really helpful with taking down towers.

You really shouldn't be using Q for last hitting. Sniper has the longest range in the game, and instant missile travel. You also shouldn't be getting Q early in the game unless you're being forced to push the tower down as fast as possible. Even then, range is superior, because you can be out of tower range and still hurt the tower.

But that's just my opinion. Maybe someone better can chime in with real advice.

(Don't pick Sniper, either. Mostly just because there are way better carries if that's what you want.)
 

dorkimoe

Member
NO STOP IT SK IS A CARRY WHO NEEDS TO KNOW HOW TO LASTHIT STOP FUCKING RECOMMENDING HIM TO NEW PLAYERS

He may be babby's first carry, but you can't carry if you don't know the game.

Someone from hongaf told me to play SK as my first hero. It was ok...

Tidehunter was probably a better/easier choice

I tried to teach my friend how to play with bots. Us 2 vs Easy bots. We got raped. The enemy teams bots are always smarter than mine. My bots refused to fight, while the other team seemed to be setting up ganks and shit. So lame.

I played CM last night. Really enjoyed her, except for the fact I couldn't get an ult off and bought the wrong item because I had nobody to ask :(. But I like the iceblock for support
 

JustinBB7

Member
You really shouldn't be using Q for last hitting. Sniper has the longest range in the game, and instant missile travel. You also shouldn't be getting Q early in the game unless you're being forced to push the tower down as fast as possible. Even then, range is superior, because you can be out of tower range and still hurt the tower.

But that's just my opinion. Maybe someone better can chime in with real advice.

I mainly ment the last hitting part for big groups (when the enemy pushed out a few waves) or you can use it on a bunch of creeps and then run off somewhere else. Not last hitting as in normal lane last hitting of course.

Tobi streaming defense playoff match: Western Wolves vs Quantic

http://www.joindota.com/en/live/tobiwan

Dark Seer is in.
 

mbmonk

Member
Hello everyone. I just have a quick question. Is there a way to see what class a hero is in game? As a new player it's almost impossible to remember who is a Carry/Ganker/Support for my own team as well as the enemy teams unless you have memorized the heroes.

Thanks.
 

JustinBB7

Member
Haven't seen Tiny in pro play before so this will be cool.

Actually been picked up a lot last few days. Saw him at least 2/3 times now. Dunno why because it didn't go well for most of those games I think. Don't really remember. Haven't seen night stalker in a while. Kept getting banned first along with AM for weeks, then he just disappeared for some reason.

Hello everyone. I just have a quick question. Is there a way to see what class a hero is in game? As a new player it's almost impossible to remember who is a Carry/Ganker/Support for my own team as well as the enemy teams unless you have memorized the heroes.

Thanks.

Says so in the picking screen and in the learn section. You can go back to the main menu in the middle of the game to go to the learn section if you want as well.
 

Davidion

Member
Hello everyone. I just have a quick question. Is there a way to see what class a hero is in game? As a new player it's almost impossible to remember who is a Carry/Ganker/Support for my own team as well as the enemy teams unless you have memorized the heroes.

Thanks.

It's all there when you select a hero and review his/her data. Hell, you can filter the hero selection screen to only show heroes in a certain role.
 
I have a question in regards to mid game strategy. How do you determine which lanes to push after winning a team fight? I've played through a few matches now where my team loses because we don't capitalize on the man advantages after a successful team fight. A couple of times we all knew to push but because the proximity to the towers were so far away, by the time, we got there, the opponents pretty much were up again.
 

JustinBB7

Member
I have a question in regards to mid game strategy. How do you determine which lanes to push after winning a team fight? I've played through a few matches now where my team loses because we don't capitalize on the man advantages after a successful team fight. A couple of times we all knew to push but because the proximity to the towers were so far away, by the time, we got there, the opponents pretty much were up again.

Depends on where the creeps are I suppose, and to which one you are closest too, and how much time you have.

I always factor in those 3. But in pubs it's hard to direct everybody to 1 lane sometimes.
 

mbmonk

Member
Says so in the picking screen and in the learn section. You can go back to the main menu in the middle of the game to go to the learn section if you want as well.

It's all there when you select a hero and review his/her data. Hell, you can filter the hero selection screen to only show heroes in a certain role.

I forgot I could back out to the menus during the game to check. Thank you both very much. :)
 
I have a question in regards to mid game strategy. How do you determine which lanes to push after winning a team fight? I've played through a few matches now where my team loses because we don't capitalize on the man advantages after a successful team fight. A couple of times we all knew to push but because the proximity to the towers were so far away, by the time, we got there, the opponents pretty much were up again.

Usually you want to go to the lane that's pushed the farthest, but raxxing mid will give you a bigger advantage than raxxing either of the side lanes. Raxxing BOTH of the side lanes obviously gives you a bigger advantage than just raxxing mid.

But yeah, usually just push what's already pushed. Unless it's really late game and the whole enemy team is going to be down for over a minute, at which point, you might as well just go straight for mid, because you'll have the time (if they can't buy back).
 
I have a question in regards to mid game strategy. How do you determine which lanes to push after winning a team fight? I've played through a few matches now where my team loses because we don't capitalize on the man advantages after a successful team fight. A couple of times we all knew to push but because the proximity to the towers were so far away, by the time, we got there, the opponents pretty much were up again.

I've come to believe that in pugs, the most important thing is that you push one lane...wherever it is all together. The biggest mistake I see teams make is that one person goes to one lane to push, while another does a different one, the team gets split up, and chaos later ensues. Try to lead and be vocal about where you think the team should go, and if someone else is being more vocal, then bow to him and follow accordingly. Most important is that the team is organized in pub play, not so much the specifics of how.
 
I've come to believe that in pugs, the most important thing is that you push one lane...wherever it is all together. The biggest mistake I see teams make is that one person goes to one lane to push, while another does a different one, the team gets split up, and chaos later ensues. Try to lead and be vocal about where you think the team should go, and if someone else is being more vocal, then bow to him and follow accordingly. Most important is that the team is organized in pub play, not so much the specifics of how.

This is also definitely true. As always, it's easier to organize these things with a group of friends.
 
Usually you want to go to the lane that's pushed the farthest, but raxxing mid will give you a bigger advantage than raxxing either of the side lanes. Raxxing BOTH of the side lanes obviously gives you a bigger advantage than just raxxing mid.

But yeah, usually just push what's already pushed. Unless it's really late game and the whole enemy team is going to be down for over a minute, at which point, you might as well just go straight for mid, because you'll have the time (if they can't buy back).

Depends on where the creeps are I suppose, and to which one you are closest too, and how much time you have.

I always factor in those 3. But in pubs it's hard to direct everybody to 1 lane sometimes.

I've come to believe that in pugs, the most important thing is that you push one lane...wherever it is all together. The biggest mistake I see teams make is that one person goes to one lane to push, while another does a different one, the team gets split up, and chaos later ensues. Try to lead and be vocal about where you think the team should go, and if someone else is being more vocal, then bow to him and follow accordingly. Most important is that the team is organized in pub play, not so much the specifics of how.


Thanks for the suggestions. There was a game where the groups were separated and pushing two different lanes so consolidating would definitely help. It's interesting to learn that even though dying is very detrimental to the team, being up in the kill count really doesn't help you if you don't capitalize on it. I'm really impressed with the game design of this genre.
 
i think tiny is the best duder in game, if he's in my team i tend to pick a hero to baby sit him make sure he gets plenty of farm so he gets mom and scepter. Then watch him bulldoze the other team.
 
ok I tried some heroes against normal bots.

sniper: sucks =/, I mean the Q ability sucks and he can only kill with normal attack or the ulti, I thought he was a little better.

Sniper is an advanced hero that requires map awareness and good last hitting skills. He's not hard to play but he needs those two abilities to suceed. Also I'm of the camp that shrap sucks ass, and to skill up other skills before getting it.

zeus: late game I killed a lot thanks to his ulti, I finished with 16 - 10 or so, he's nice but not too good at early game, right?

Zeus basically requires mid or to be laned with another burst to be good in my opinion. You need that early game ult and to go out and gank with bottle/runes. He's insanely good early/mid game, and wears off toward the end.

two heads dragon (dont remember the name): he's a tank or what? 'Cause when i use all my spells on someone he NEVER dies, not even close. so poor damage. dunno.

Jakiro does kind of suck but I think his damage is fine, level up his damage and passive and then his stun. To truly do damage as jakiro you need to use your ult in a good setup, like a black hole (enigma's ult) or a chrono sphere(faceless void ult).

now I'm gonna try Lich and SK, SK seems very very easy since it's only a QQQQQQQ.
btw it's a shit playing with bots, some are really dumb. =|

I wouldn't recommend playing lich in practice. He's boring and you probably won't win because bot carries are terrible. SK is a good character to practice last hitting/farming as. If you want to go play a real game as a decent character I would recommend sven. He can be a power house and be useful without any real items.

Some tips.

I'm surprised I don't see sven recommended more often for beginning players. Some players are looking for that hard hitting hero, he hits like a truck. His stun is easy to use, does a lot of damage. His skills are simple. He doesn't need that many items. He fits in many team setups. The only thing confusing about him is his skill build, which is really just max his hammer, one in war shout, rest in stats until level 12, then max cleave then shout.
 

Lirlond

Member
Played a game as Shadow fiend there, despite being killed twice in mid I still managed to farm a skadi in less than 20 minutes and a shadow blade shortly thereafter. Unfortunately I didn't get to test him out much in fights as the enemy team just gave up after they lost one team fight..
 

buhdeh

Member
He is both strong early and late. His static field is what helps him stay very efficient even in late game

Zeus is rarely useful late game. Unless you are up against a team of low hp heroes, most players will have too much hp for Zeus to be effective. Even with an a-scepter and/or refresher.
 

Hylian7

Member
Played a game as Shadow fiend there, despite being killed twice in mid I still managed to farm a skadi in less than 20 minutes and a shadow blade shortly thereafter. Unfortunately I didn't get to test him out much in fights as the enemy team just gave up after they lost one team fight..

In a real match, you gotta be careful with the early deaths. You need souls badly. Also, try Blink Dagger on him. Blink Dagger + 32 soul Ult = Amazing!

I don't know if you knew this already, but as far as skills go with him, it's something like this (in order of priority):

1. Necromastery
2. Shadowraze
3. Utlimate (Only take the first level of this when you have Necromastery fully leveled)
4. Presence of the Dark Lord
 

Guesong

Member
Never count on WW to give you a third game.

Of all the teams out there, I think they are the less skilled. They lose every game I watch.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Zeus is rarely useful late game. Unless you are up against a team of low hp heroes, most players will have too much hp for Zeus to be effective. Even with an a-scepter and/or refresher.

Static Field makes him one of the few casters that actually does scale into late game dmg wise.
 

Lirlond

Member
In a real match, you gotta be careful with the early deaths. You need souls badly. Also, try Blink Dagger on him. Blink Dagger + 32 soul Ult = Amazing!

I don't know if you knew this already, but as far as skills go with him, it's something like this (in order of priority):

1. Necromastery
2. Shadowraze
3. Utlimate (Only take the first level of this when you have Necromastery fully leveled)
4. Presence of the Dark Lord

I like shadow blade better, unless the team has started to counter it you get to cast your ult with no interruption. It also helps in chasing(combined with skadi it means no one gets away).
 

Artanisix

Member
On pushing: I see a lot of people telling their team to push after winning a teamfight. But it's not just about winning a teamfight. Especially early and mid game, you need to win teamfights outside of your base and close to the enemy base; or you need to gank off a few of the enemy heroes before their team can respond, or else it's near-impossible to push any towers. You also need to weigh whether or not it's better (and it's possible) to do Roshan over pushing towers. A lot of people win a fight in their base and say, "PUSH!" and they make it to the enemy tower before they respawn. This is a big no-no.

On Tiny: I've been playing Tiny a LOT lately and I personally feel that he's really, really, really good. The thing is that he's an incredible ganker early game who can farm easily with Arcane boots. Once he gets Blink/Arcane Boots/(optional)Force Staff, he transitions into the most INSANE pusher with Aghanim's and AC or MoM. And Scepter also increases his farm by loads, much like how Battlefury does with melee carries, except Scepter is CHEAPER and BETTER than Battlefury on Tiny. Battlefury cleave: 225 aoe. Scepter cleave: 400 aoe. Yeah, it's huge, and gives HP, mana, and ridiculous push power. After that, get standard carry items on him and he becomes a monster carry. His only problem is that he needs a decent early game to get going.
 

mbmonk

Member
Reading from "welcome-to-dota-you-suck" guide

I found the bolded part at the bottom particularly interesting, me being a noob. I always auto-attacked the creep line.

Laning

The purpose of laning is to get experience from enemy creeps dying, and gold from getting creep last hits. With the experience you gain levels and with the gold you gain better items. Generally if all things are equal(picks, skill, etc.), whichever team has a level and gold advantage will win the game if they continue the trend. If you play right(perfect teamwork) against another perfect teamwork team, the little things matter.

To improve your experience and gold advantage over your opponent, your best option is to KILL THEM. When you KILL THEM you gain about 250 gold and usually about a level&#8217;s worth of experience. Anyone who supported you in that kill also gets some support gold even though they didn&#8217;t land the final blow.

Your second best option is to ALMOST KILL THEM and make them go back to base to heal. If they go back to heal, they spend 20-40 seconds walking slowly all the way back to base. This is .5-1 levels worth of experience they are missing out on, and they also miss all chances of last hits and denies.

To reduce the effect of ALMOST BEING KILLED you should purchase a tp scroll from base and make the trip back shorter. Yes, it is worth the 135 gold. This is hard for noobs to get over, but that is simply 3 last hits and you are even again. That&#8217;s 3 last hits and a lot of creep exp that you would spend time walking back and forth. Simply put, ALWAYS BUY A TP SCROLL AND USE IT WHEN GOING SOMEWHERE LONG RANGE. The noobs that are ALWAYS under leveled spend a lot of time walking back and forth to base to heal. I don&#8217;t care if you are only 250 gold from getting boots. Buy a tp scroll. Also, ALWAYS CARRY A TP SCROLL AT ALL TIMES IN CASE YOU NEED TO GET SOMEWHERE NOW.

The final most important thing you can learn about laning, is PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT AUTOATTACK THE CREEPS. There is a place where the creeps meet and beat on each other until they die. This is called the creep line. The creeps do a very exact amount of damage. Generally, if two waves of creeps fight endlessly on flat ground, THE CREEP LINE WILL NOT MOVE. If you start auto attacking or nuking the creeps, the creep line will be pushed closer to the enemy&#8217;s tower. When they enemy is closer to their tower, they are closer to being safe. It is so much more difficult to gank heroes when you can&#8217;t sneak behind them before initiating the gank. For this reason, DON&#8217;T AUTOATTACK THE CREEPS. Instead of auto attacking, right click all over the ground, run in circles until you are ready to last hit, spam the S key(stop) to animation cancel your hero(BEFORE he throws his attack). Just don&#8217;t auto attack.

I tend to auto attack creeps and push the creep line back toward their tower. And I do tend to get ganked on their side much more frequently than on my side. So I am thinking about adopting this. I mostly play support classes for what that is worth.

Thoughts?
 

Guesong

Member
Never count on WW to give you a third game.

Of all the teams out there, I think they are the less skilled. They lose every game I watch.

I'm about to jinx Quantic. I'm so sorry Quantic, but Antimage was better. (...nvm, maybe Tide will find new ways to throw fights again)



And don't autoattack creeps. It's not even a question. You don't have to think about incorporating it. You do it.
 

Deadly

Member
Reading from "welcome-to-dota-you-suck" guide

I found the bolded part at the bottom particularly interesting, me being a noob. I always attacked the creep line.



I tend to auto attack creeps and push the creep line back toward their tower. And I do tend to get ganked on their side much more frequently than on my side. So I am thinking about adopting this. I mostly play support classes for what that is worth.

Thoughts?
Auto attacking is frowned upon early yes. Since your support you should also try denying more and let your carry last hit. Not necessarily always but like 90% of the time. He needs gold alot more than you do
 

vocab

Member
NO STOP IT SK IS A CARRY WHO NEEDS TO KNOW HOW TO LASTHIT STOP FUCKING RECOMMENDING HIM TO NEW PLAYERS

He may be babby's first carry, but you can't carry if you don't know the game.

Pretty much. SK may be brain dead, but he is really item dependent.

Reading from "welcome-to-dota-you-suck" guide

I found the bolded part at the bottom particularly interesting, me being a noob. I always auto-attacked the creep line.



I tend to auto attack creeps and push the creep line back toward their tower. And I do tend to get ganked on their side much more frequently than on my side. So I am thinking about adopting this. I mostly play support classes for what that is worth.

Thoughts?

Stop auto attacking. Pretty simple enough. This isn't league of legends where there's no denies. Keep the creep wave to your tower is a big part of the game. Helps mid gank the lane easier, and it protects your carry from getting dived on. Plus if they dive at tower, someone can port and save you easier.
 

Davidion

Member
I tend to auto attack creeps and push the creep line back toward their tower. And I do tend to get ganked on their side much more frequently than on my side. So I am thinking about adopting this. I mostly play support classes for what that is worth.

Thoughts?

Consistent auto-attacking is basically one of the biggest mistakes you can make during the laning phase.

Don't do it.
 

Cheeto

Member
I tend to auto attack creeps and push the creep line back toward their tower. And I do tend to get ganked on their side much more frequently than on my side. So I am thinking about adopting this. I mostly play support classes for what that is worth.

Thoughts?

You should approach laning as a battle for safe farm against the opponents... doing whatever you can to keep the creeps near, but not under, your tower.... This includes not auto-attacking which pushes the lane towards their tower.
 

Ability loadouts? Holy shit. So, we're gonna be able to customize our abilities, too? (I'll just say that I'm already assuming it's completely cosmetic.)

...I dunno if that's a good thing. Seems potentially dangerous to change the visuals - like particle effects, colors, whatever - of the abilities of heroes. Changing the heroes' skins/accessories is fine, because I don't think anything will change them so much as to be unrecognizable, but if you modify the visual effects of their skills? There are a lot of abilities that I recognize instantly based on their effects. I don't even want to think about what would happen if one day SK's Epicenter gets a new visual effect and I don't realize it and I'm like "WHY AM I TAKING ALL THIS DAMAGE".

What I'm hoping that actually means is that each skill will have an associated taunt or dance or whatever. But I dunno. There's already a slot for taunts. Hmmm. U:

I'm probably overthinking things here. For now, I'm still gonna give Valve the benefit of the doubt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom