I'm pretty nooby and think it would be cool if gaf held/had some noob inhouse matches or something.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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Gully State
Member
I'm in that deadzone right now...I don't feel like I'm improving at all...There's something wrong with my micro but I just can't figure out how to specifically fix it. I see some people being able to rack up kills as a ganker like nobodies business. What's worse is 9 times out of 10 as a ganker during early- mid game, I'll do most of the damage but another teammate will score the killing blow (carry support doesn't matter) or I'll get the guy down to a sliver of health but he manages to escape... I wish I knew how to address this issue.
Yes, the number shown is the average.
If you're super new I recommend joining the redditnoobs channel and playing with them. I haven't personally looked into their games at all, but I've heard good things about it (aside from the annoying, terrible Lycan who played with GAF, flamed everyone, and said he was too good for this server). I don't know if there are enough noobie GAF members who are on at the same time to make exclusively newbie GAFhouses.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Ok, so I read the long basic guide on Purge's site. I also watched the video on "the very basics" and Purge's video on laning.
Would someone mind recommending me a hero to start with, and then a strat to use?
For example: Choose carry hero X. Stand in the middle lane. Get last hit, prevent last hit. Spec up your skills like this. At level Y buy these items. Then, once you hit level Y+Z, try to [gank, push, something].
Or, choose support hero X. Assist in the bottom lane. Try to pull neutrals into the creep line. [Stay away so that your Carry can get all of the exp | Get exp, but make sure the carry gets the last hits]. Spec up your abilities like so. At level Y buy some stuff. Then, start to support pushes, etc.
I want to play single player vs. bots for a few days to learn the mechanics, like getting last hit and staying alive (i.e. "not feeding").
Also--
If I'm playing support (like Crystal Maiden), do I want to NOT get experience and let my teammates get it? Or just NOT get last hit so they can get money?
I'm very confused.
Would someone mind recommending me a hero to start with, and then a strat to use?
For example: Choose carry hero X. Stand in the middle lane. Get last hit, prevent last hit. Spec up your skills like this. At level Y buy these items. Then, once you hit level Y+Z, try to [gank, push, something].
Or, choose support hero X. Assist in the bottom lane. Try to pull neutrals into the creep line. [Stay away so that your Carry can get all of the exp | Get exp, but make sure the carry gets the last hits]. Spec up your abilities like so. At level Y buy some stuff. Then, start to support pushes, etc.
I want to play single player vs. bots for a few days to learn the mechanics, like getting last hit and staying alive (i.e. "not feeding").
Also--
If I'm playing support (like Crystal Maiden), do I want to NOT get experience and let my teammates get it? Or just NOT get last hit so they can get money?
I'm very confused.
Fixed that for you
If you want to Support - Lich
Go to one of the side lanes preferably with a melee carry, although you can do it with another support. I wouldn't bother with pulling neutrals, it's a medium skill tactic, focus on getting comfortable with the game and the hero, as well as the laning phase. Skill Frost Blast and Sacrifice alternatively till level 6 then skill Chain Frost, Finish off Frost Blast at 7 and get one point in Frost Armor at 8, then finish off Sacrifice till 10. Focus on purchasing wards, don't worry if you don't have that many items, your item independent. If you do manage to acquire currency, purchase Power Treads, Mekansm, Aghanim Sceptre. You want to stay around your carry during the laning phase, when your team starts pushing head towards the tower they are trying to assault, if the enemy team is pushing go defend.
If you want to Carry - Viper
You can either take him middle or go side lane with him, considering your fairly new I wouldn't try to take the middle lane yet, just go to the side lane. Get last hits and attempt to get kills if you have a lane partner with a slow or a stun. Skill Poison Attack and Nethertoxin alternatively till 6, then get Viper Bite, Max Poison Attack and Nethertoxin then start skilling Corrosive skin, get level 2 Viper Bite at 11 though. You should be purchasing Phase Boots, Black King Bar, Manta Style, and Heart of Tarrasque, in that order. Just buy them as you get the gold for them. You want to keep farming till you either win a team fight or your team attempts to push a tower, don't idle around as this is time spent not farming.
If you want to Initiate - Tidehunter
Go to the side lane with a ranged hero, either a carry or a support doesn't matter, if it's a carry let them have the last hits, if it's a support you take the last hits. Skill Gush at 1, 3, 5, Skill kraken shell at 2, and Anchor Smash at 4, skill Ravage at 6, Gush at 7, then Kraken Shell at 8, 9, 10, Ravage at 11, then max Anchor Smash. As for items, you should purchase Arcane Boots, Bracer, Blink Dagger, Pipe of Insight, if your the only support in the game buy wards, ask your team to help you purchase them if you get close to the amount for blink dagger ( 2150 ), if your not the only support save for Blink Dagger but ask the other support if they need help Warding. You want to try and gank if possible, be around your team so that you can either use Ravage offensively or defensively, make sure you have a teleportation scroll on you. Use it if you see the enemy team initiating close to one of your towers on an ally
You want to get experience, but let them get the last hits. Don't worry about pulling till you are more comfortable with the game, you won't be able to do it properly and will become very underlevelled.
DivineRage002
Member
In my opinion, Drow Ranger is an excelent hero to practice with. She only has 1 "active" ability, that will allow you to focus a lot more on what's happening around you and getting an overall feel on the gameplay rather than cast spells left and right.
You always want experience, as for last hits, you always want last hits UNLESS you are supporting a carry, in which case you should let him get as many as possible.
Just buy the recommended items to begin with, they are decent enough, just try to make sure that you UNDERSTAND what they do, and that you use them properly.
DivineRage002
Member
I found Silencer to be the ultimate counter to Outworld Destroyer.
Basically renders him useless.
Other than that, yeah he's very situational.
Kappy and Bzm are usually on weeknights and will play newbie GAFhouses.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Thank you!
Ok, I'm going to check out the Drow Ranger. I just felt dumb picking Drizz't or whatever.
yeah archie and tswift play in newbie gaf houses too.
Don't play Drow. She's a carry and you don't know how to farm yet so you will ruin the game for your team. Play Lich first and support your carry. Skill sacrifice first and use it on cooldown so the creeps stay close to your tower and you deny the enemy xp. Ward the rivers. Build Mek. Let the carry get all of the last hits. Deny as many creeps as you can and harass the enemy with your nuke. That's about it.
You need to spectate a bunch of carries to learn how to farm properly and practice last hitting in bot matches before you can play a carry in matchmaking.
Gully State
Member
You want to get experience (so stick around semi- near the creep line) but don't steal last hits from your carry (your job as support is to deny and harrass). You can farm later on midgame if the opposing team is turtling...But generally your gold income will come from roaming with your team in group fights and assisting in kills.
I would also suggest practicing last hitting against normal bots before playing anything that requires farm. So just setup a bot game and play maybe 15 min through to get a feel of the animation/projectile speed/damage.
DivineRage002
Member
I suggested Drow simply to get a feel of the game, since she's absolutely simple to play, allows to focus on your surroundings a lot more and get used to watching the map, calling MIA's, practicing last hits, etc.
And yes, DEFINITELY play bot matches first, at least until you get a good feel of the game, but I still think practicing with Drow will get you started nicely.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Thanks, all good advice; but he was responding to me specifically saying I want to just play bot games at first. I'm not worried about ruining the bot's games. =)
You suggest Drow for practicing last hits when she has the second worse animation in the game among the range carries, second only to Clinkz. Also has no defensive abilities, amazingly slow turn speed, and low agi / int gain ( Agi for good reason )
Stop recommending this hero to people that don't know how to play, she's awful if your not able to gauge when it's safe to farm, how to last hit, and if your not able to use helm of dominator to your advantage.
Please don't try Drow in MM when your done with Bot games. Go Viper -> Sniper -> Drow -> Mirana
In that order.
Does Last Word work on Orb Effects?
DivineRage002
Member
And that's exactly why I recommended that one, to get a feel for that.
No better way to learn than be put straight into a moderately tough situation. If he can learn to last hit with Drow, he'll be set for every other hero out there.
He won't be able to practice last hitting if he plays Lich, since he is not supposed to to begin with, he will also have 4 active abilities, which will just make it all the more confusing to getting a feel for the game.
Could just start with Viper, and learn all those things, with some defensive ability.
DivineRage002
Member
Yeah Viper would be an excellent choice as well.
While Drow has the potential to be unstoppable late game, she is extremely item reliant and has few escape mechanisms early game. I don't know why people recommend her to beginners. Just because a hero has few active abils, doesn't mean they are easy to play.
I wonder if we will get a patch tonight since the test patchdropped yesterday and was light?
I wonder if we will get a patch tonight since the test patchdropped yesterday and was light?
DivineRage002
Member
Because suggesting a tough, unkillable hero will get him overconfident, I had the same problem back when I started playing LoL and I only played Alistar, I got used to towerdiving people, and as soon as I moved to Ashe, I was getting slaughtered.
Basically, these are the MAIN skills you want to learn in DotA, before everything else:
Map awareness/layout
Last hitting
General item knowledge
Using skills at the right time
Drow will force all of those to max effect (yes, even the skills, she only has one but it really is crucial during a team fight/gank), and he'll be able to acquire all four skills rather easily with her. Yes, he will get killed a few time, and that's how he'll learn. He will also be screwing up his last hits quite a lot at first, and within two or three games he'll get a good feel for it.
Gully State
Member
I wonder if it's because people mistake her as an analogue to Ashe from LoL (who is beginner friendly) because they look similar and share one active ability?
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Drow has slower attack animation, harder to last hit.
DivineRage002
Member
You got me wondering, after a quick google this is what I found.
Autocast on = Orb.
Autocast off = Spell.
You were right, unless the Outworld Destroyer is manually casting it, he will get through the silence.
why did you have to go offline right as i leveled my ult on a new heroI don't know man. Ashe, Cait and the like are squishy, sure, but also very easy to learn in their specific roles (have support with you, last hit, stay in the back). I don't think it's a fair comparison.
I think Lich is a good recommendation for Dota 2 noobs like myself.
I would add Razor right after Viper. Good animation, can be build tanky, easy spells so use, not dependent on on use items.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Ok, so now I'm hearing Viper instead of Drow?
I don't care really, I just want a couple people to experiment with to learn the game.
I don't care really, I just want a couple people to experiment with to learn the game.
If your playing Bot games it doesn't matter but for MM follow the order I did earlier.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Got it, thanks!
I disagree with your ranking of Clinkz, though. I don't think he's any worse than Drow for last hitting ; his animation may be slow, but in not-high-caliber games you can generally afford spending the mana to use his Attack Modifier.
He then packs a wallop and is much easier to last hit with than Drow. May be easier than Sniper, even. Sniper is harsh since while his animation might be quick, the damage he deals early is really pitiful.
Weren't listing the effectiveness at last hitting, just how terrible the animations are, which, Clinkz is the king of shitty animations, with Lina as his queen.
Technosteve
Banned
drow is hard to play, my record of 0 and 30 atest to that
SnakeswithLasers
Member
I kind of liked Bounty Hunter when I was messing with that--the "free crit on next attack" skill was fun for last hit. Is he a terrible class to start with? And would he solo the mid or duo with support, then go gank?
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
People often think the less active abilities a hero has, the easier it is. I don't think that's the case. The game is hard, and that won't change anytime soon. So instead of just finding you simple heroes, look for heroes that you can benefit from as a whole.
Lets go by role, and you can choose from there.
Carry: Viper, Dragon Knight and Riki. Viiper is pretty straight forward. Read the skills. Dragon Knight isn't too complicated, and it gives you a chance to learn a hero that has range and melee all at once. Riki, just because his ult gives you freedom of movement, which can give you time to see whats going on around you, and (hopefully) figure out better positioning.
Support: Dazzle, Lich, and Lion (sorta). The problem with support heroes in bot matches, is you are pretty much relying on an AI to do the important stuff. So you probably won't see much success with these against bots. But anyways, Dazzle is about timing. Nearly every spell in the game has an attack animation that must happen before the spell takes affect. His Shallow Grave is a good example of this, and will help you understand when to use it, and when it is too late. Lich is all about the denying and ult, as far as learning goes. Try to only use the ult when enemies clump together, and the less creeps nearby. His E denies an ally creep for mana. Denying a creep to an enemy denies them some EXP and gold. Which is really good at the start of a game. Lion is more of a ganky kind of support. He has crowd control and burst. I picked him mostly because you can support and still blow stuff up. Not much other reason.
Other heroes you might enjoy:
Antimage - His blink, mainly. Makes it easy to survive stuff. A few of my newb friends enjoyed him because of that.
Axe - Tanky, but fun. He was one of the heroes I started on. He is pretty easy.
Zeus - Blows things up. Everyone enjoys him, for the most part. If you want to nuke stuff, try him out. He is squishy, though.
Shadow Shaman - He does pretty much everything. Lots of CC, a good nuke, and a great ult. I also used this guy to practice.
Venomancer - Pretty easy hero. You can build him support or damage. Get one level in his Q and W, and then max his E. Then spam his E, and enjoy.
Skeleton King - This guy is super simple, but he is a carry and needs to farm well to be effective. Ult gives you two lives, so new players enjoy him.
As always, opinions differ from dude to dude. Some may or may not agree with this. What I can tell you, and what everyone else will agree on is: Don't let a few losses hurt your feeling over the game. This is a game that relies on all five players to do well. When one fails, usually the rest will follow. This is not an easy game, and we all sucked when we started. When you start playing with players, let them know you are new, ask them if they can give you pointers or advice. This will usually calm the ragers down a bit (but not all the time). You may not want to use the voice chat, but I would suggest getting used to it earlier rather than later. Also, take some time to understand the lingo. That will make things far less troublesome for you later down the road.
Bounty Hunter is purrddy good. He needs farm, so make sure you farm. He can go on any lane. You can roam on him too, if you are confident your team can help setup with ganks.
Bounty Hunter normally goes in a side lane with a support. The big draw back is that he has a pretty small HP pool, and you need to keep farming for a while when you aren't killing people, he needs a good amount of items to be useful as the game goes on.
Try someone like Skeleton King, he is fun and easy. Try and Grab an Armlet after you get your Power Treads, pick up a magic stick along the way, then build to the situation.
For skilling him, put some points in stats early game. The way I usually skill him is Stun > Stats> Stun > Stats> Stun > Ult > Stun > Life Steal > Crit > Crit > Ult > Crit > Crit > Life Steal > Life Steal > Ult > Life Steal, life steal tends to make farming actually harder when the first set of towers are still up, and Critical Strike doesn't help to much early game when you have a slow attack speed and aren't going to be doing many consecutive hits on an enemy, but is really great once the mid game come and you have an Armlet.
One thing to watch out for is people who drain mana, which can make your ult useless. Antimage is the big one to look out for, but Invoker, Lion, and Bane also have mana draining. I
Green Biker Dude
Banned
that'd be great, if the update hadn't broken the game
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