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Dragon Quest 11 (JP) |OT| whynotboth.gif

R

Rolling Start

Neo Member
Aw, and I was just about to write up a review of it...

If the post-game is going the way I think it is from accidentally clicking some spoilers, I think it would be best to write it up in a separate article anyway because the whole thing is one big spoiler. And somehow I don't think it'll be ruining my positive impression of the game.
 
A

Autumn Wind

Member
Hmm... the items for the hero on the page Hasemo gave me...

Do I have to defeat
Homer
? So that I can get past those
question marks
on the map? It would seem that would be it.
 
E

encephalon

Member
You know, I was saving this impression for later, thinking I might do a write up after I completed the game ... but I'm just going to say it now. The attention to detail is incredible. There are so many times throughout the game where a scene that would normally play out with shortcuts taken is met with the time and dedication to make a single, fleeting moment stand out. And what they were able to do within the engine, with text boxes, just blows me away. Things that would normally be CG or at least briefly switch to a prerendered scene with in game assets are done right there, seamlessly. Scenes are also generally really well directed.

I do like some DQ music, but the music is more often than not a let down that fails to meet the rest of the standards that have been achieved with this game even half way. It doesn't really matter if they orchestrate it, because it often just doesn't fit what's happening in the more dramatic scenes. Only the somber tracks really shine in this game, I feel.

I'm still not done, because I got sidetracked by FFXI (I just "completed" the Rise of the Zilart), but I hope to finish the game soon.

Edit: so I was directed to a floating island and saw a vision.

I guess I'm going to need to go back and play DQIII ... Which I own!
 
A

Autumn Wind

Member
Sakura said:
Think it's lame how you get to level 99 and still don't have enough skill points for some characters.
Click to expand...

Spoiler:
Fight the Nelsen trials and you get extra skill seeds.

Speaking of which...

Referring to post game trials

How do I
marry Emma
?

In other words, what steps do I need to do so that when I select the option, my wish is granted.
 
A

Aeana

Member
Autumn Wind said:
Spoiler:
Fight the Nelsen trials and you get extra skill seeds.

Speaking of which...

Referring to post game trials

How do I
marry Emma
?

In other words, what steps do I need to do so that when I select the option, my wish is granted.
Click to expand...

Talk to Emma in Ishi village. She'll talk about rebuilding Ishi village, and tell you that you need a merchant, a bodyguard, an information broker, and a guardian (mascot character) for the village. So you need to do the events at Grotta, Daharune, the snowfields (remember the sacred beast you fought there?), and at god's rock above Ishi village
 
H

hongcha

Member
Alright, I finished the game today (3DS 3D), took me just a bit under 50 hours. Last boss was super easy with Hero, Senya, Silvia and
Greig
. No deaths and no need to swap in any other characters.

On to the post game!
 
M

mickagau33

Member
Looking at the completition time from some of you, I wonder if I am extremly slow or if things accelerate ? I am 45 hours in and have
the boat again with Silvia and been back to the ruins and got a playable flashback

Also, since I didn't get an answer, any tip on how to get/find in the menu Silvia's puff puff attack ?

And just to reiterate : I am a 40 yo gamer wha has played hundreds and hundreds of rpgs and this game is soooo good, certainly in my all time favorite list. It has this little something that makes me think "I am playing something special"...Last time it occured to me, I think it was Mother 3 in 2006.
 
H

hongcha

Member
mickagau33 said:
Looking at the completition time from some of you, I wonder if I am extremly slow or if things accelerate ? I am 45 hours in and have
the boat again with Silvia and been back to the ruins and got a playable flashback

Also, since I didn't get an answer, any tip on how to get/find in the menu Silvia's puff puff attack ?

And just to reiterate : I am a 40 yo gamer wha has played hundreds and hundreds of rpgs and this game is soooo good, certainly in my all time favorite list. It has this little something that makes me think "I am playing something special"...Last time it occured to me, I think it was Mother 3 in 2006.
Click to expand...

I think I was at around 35 hours at the point you mention. Perhaps a bit less. Lots of great story developments coming up soon for you. I finished at 49 hours. Just started the post-game. Anyway, it doesn't matter if you're slow or fast, just enjoy the ride!

I agree this game has something special about it. Even though it's a bit too easy even for a DQ game, it's lots of fun and the story is excellent, and that's what's most important.
 
G

Gloam

Member
Getting closer to the ending. 49 hours played.

Back to the
snowy area
. The boss gave me a hard time. Got very unlucky with some of the turns the first couple of tries. It demolished me. Third time was the charm
Greg
and Martina made short work of him with a lot of critical hits. The slower you take the bosses the easier they seem to be. My mistake a lot of the time is going in too aggressively and ending up on the back foot.

Should hopefully finish up the main game over the next couple of days.
 
T

The n00b Avenger

Member
Autumn Wind said:
What is the key to getting +3 on Rank S items?
Click to expand...

Depends on the item but on the highest ranked ones it seems like it generally comes down to praying that your hissatsu triggers while you're making it so you can use that to trigger a bunch of criticals at the end

Start out by raising the heat once or twice and then either the 4 square double power hit on items that have 2x2 areas or just use みだれうち and pray the hits get spread out enough so that you can keep using it without overdoing a certain area because it's the most cost-effective thing you can do

That seems to work for me most of the time
 
A

Autumn Wind

Member
The n00b Avenger said:
Depends on the item but on the highest ranked ones it seems like it generally comes down to praying that your hissatsu triggers while you're making it so you can use that to trigger a bunch of criticals at the end

Start out by raising the heat once or twice and then either the 4 square double power hit on items that have 2x2 areas or just use みだれうち and pray the hits get spread out enough so that you can keep using it without overdoing a certain area because it's the most cost-effective thing you can do

That seems to work for me most of the time
Click to expand...

So essentially what you're saying is that a little luck is required? Good to know. I seem to get +2 without much difficulty but I thought getting a +3 could be done with an exact science.

Edit: Figured the previous marked spoiler out.
 
U

urfe

Member
Played 26 hours, just beat the
fisherman/mermaid
scenario on the train this morning.

It got a little dusty on the train.

Now that I have all characters I feel quite a bit stronger, and think I'm going to focus on the street pass quests a little more. I think next is
a Dragon Quest V forest
, unfortunately I forget the scenario from when I played it originally many years ago.

I was also completing old quests, and I somehow messed up one where a triple tech (excuse the CT terminology) was required, and somehow messed it up. That was demotivating. I'll try again a little later.

I think I haven't bought anything in the game (equipment, etc.) since the very beginning. Crafting stuff is good enough, and I've only gone out of my way to find materials for the bunny suit quest. All my money goes in the bank.

No regrets switching to 3D mode. I should've done this mode from the beginning. I do still love the 2D world map. The world feels so small in 3D.
 
J

john tv

Member
urfe said:
Played 26 hours, just beat the
fisherman/mermaid
scenario on the train this morning.

It got a little dusty on the train.

Now that I have all characters I feel quite a bit stronger, and think I'm going to focus on the street pass quests a little more. I think next is
a Dragon Quest V forest
, unfortunately I forget the scenario from when I played it originally many years ago.

I was also completing old quests, and I somehow messed up one where a triple tech (excuse the CT terminology) was required, and somehow messed it up. That was demotivating. I'll try again a little later.

I think I haven't bought anything in the game (equipment, etc.) since the very beginning. Crafting stuff is good enough, and I've only gone out of my way to find materials for the bunny suit quest. All my money goes in the bank.

No regrets switching to 3D mode. I should've done this mode from the beginning. I do still love the 2D world map. The world feels so small in 3D.
Click to expand...
StreetPass stuff is about to start getting difficult, really from around that one you mentioned onward. It's pretty great, really enjoying it. I've cleared the first 7 floors of the dungeon, got tons of SP maps to go visit when I have time for it!
 
F

fionel

Member
The game has indeed been quite easy. I'm 32 hours in and at the part where
our heroes' ship ran into the monster who destroyed the undersea kingdom and we were washed ashore.
I wiped a few times to the boss at
the castle after Greg joins
and also the
spider boss earlier
but nothing in the game poses a real challenge so far. And I actively try to avoid fighting as to prevent myself from being overleveled (lv 32 right now). However my party and their skills are just so OP. Hopefully the difficulty will ramp up a bit from here and even more so in the post-game.
 
E

Eien1no1Yami

Member
I finished the main story a few days ago and I'm playing the post game stuff now.

I don't want to give my overall thoughts just yet because there is a lot of story in post game too that is pretty important.Actually it's like the story just continues after the credtis, you don't feel that the game ended.That's a good thing because honestly I felt that the ending was a little bit rushed.Everything happened really fast and in the end you would have wished for more.
Thank god that the story continues after that and is actually really good.
Funny thing is, I feel that other games would have sold the post game stuff as story dlc or expansions (DA Inq) but DQXI has it as part of the main game anyway xD.
Btw guys how many levels were you when you faced the true final boss?
 
T

The n00b Avenger

Member
I was level 78
and I fought it without removing the cloak of darkness though I'm not sure what exactly that changes
and while I did have to make an effort, I never had to go as far as switching characters in and out or using the 'panic button'(Megazaru) so 78 at least was probably a little too high.

70 sounds like a nice level of challenge. Though to be honest if you want to complete the bestiary like I did, you'll probably end up 70+ almost inevitably
 
D

dragonchild

Banned
Well, "that" happened. I hit the section where I guess I'm obligated to put everything in SPOILER text.

Leading up to it the game was getting genuinely, addictively fun. I was getting very comfortable with the party, the last couple bosses were pretty quick fights, Sylvia and Veronica were a joy. Now, I was already vaguely aware that
something big was going to happen, so when it all went FFVI I'm like, fine, "everything must die" is an animu trope at this point. It dragged on and got very mawkish at the point where the Mermaid Queen was basically showing me shit I already knew -- and MC could've easily deduced or found out on his own since presumably at some point he'd be back on the surface -- and I'm all, "OK, but I had my powers stolen AND I'm a fish, I'll do my best but what the hell am I supposed to do about it?" Well, it turns out there was a purpose, but it was far more sinister and nefarious than I ever could've prepared for.

A basic rule of writing is, "Kill your darlings." George R.R. Martin may have misinterpreted this rule, because rather than literally killing off popular characters, it means if as a writer you're highly enamored with a character or scene or concept, it's probably in fact extremely shitty so it's advisable to remove it from the story. Case in point, Twilight, which if you applied "kill your darlings" it'd be the whole book so. . . yeah.
If you haven't guessed already, you will very soon realize where I'm going with this.

I hate Greg. Not because of what he did, in-game. In-game he's just a twit who wound up on the wrong side because he's the typical doofy low-Int paladin and we must show that Evil will always triumph because Good is Dumb. Eh, fine. If you like him, fine. I think he's boring and trite, but he's only one character, and I can personally relate to the desire for redemption. . . or so I'd say, but nooooo. I detest that character on a meta level. He took over the whole damn story.
I'm no stranger to the cliche redemption arc, but the execution of this has flaws that would get the writer thrown out of a damn fanfiction group. There are so many, and they're so terrible, that I'm not even sure where to start. I guess I'll begin with, I was under the impression this story was about MC. But now I guess it's basically about Greg's redemption and MC's whole "saving the world" thing is basically just so Greg can get his redemption freak on, because that's literally why Greg joins the fucking party. (OK, the King's all like "use your talents for the world" but it's basically about redemption and it's not like I was given any say in this.) I'm all for redemption IRL but on a meta level this was the point where as far as I was concerned it wasn't about MC anymore and was now the Greg is the Hero show. Except unlike Celes' beautiful redemption in FFVI that starts BEFORE things go to shit, noting she personally pieces the party back together when they had all lost hope, this is almost the complete reverse. This is basically Greg piggybacking on someone else's self-motivated cause for his own emotional gratification, which is ethically disturbing because what he should be doing is staying the hell behind and defending a town that very obviously would still rely on him for defense but for his redemption arc that stage just isn't big enough, fate of the survivors be damned. (Which is in fact another issue beautifully handled in FFVI when Tera initially refuses to re-join because she felt she was needed where she was.) So after being all "I'm worried about the town" (really? then why the fuck you here bro?) he leaves it because he wants the MC's mission. Second, everything leading up to that moment was the Greg is Awesome show. This was extremely annoying in both quality of writing (utter shit) and sheer, interminable length. The Mermaid Queen showing various scenes where Greg is being all heroic (but not directly shown, oohhhh foreshadowing), then I gotta hear NPCs gush about how awesome this guy is, including MC's Ma and childhood friend. If there's a more brutally efficient way to get me to hate a character, it's having zero confidence in the audience choosing to love a character so you pry open their maws and shovel praise for the character down their gullets, especially using other characters as mouthpieces. The twit himself is just standing around while the King is apologizing on his behalf (and doing a far better job of redeeming himself when he was possessed FFS). But even this isn't enough; I then gotta sit through cutscenes that show just how AWESOME and COOL Greg is by turning MC into a nitwit who needs Greg to not only save his ass but then lecture him in a goddamn fight, all while I -- the player, yes I still exist, I guess -- just sit there. As soon as combat starts I rip through the enemies while Greg futzes around. And I'm supposed to pay homage to this guy? Yes, NPCs are often different between cutscenes and gameplay but considering all the effusive praise heaped on him this is atrocious execution to top it off. It's not like Cammy got this sort of treatment in a very analogous sequence early in the game.
At this point it should be noted that before the Tree went kablooie I was taking a completionist approach, taking 50 hours to reach that scene, making sure to fight every type of monster, pick up every glittery and such. Here, my exasperation and boredom got so bad I completely broke pattern and was speedrunning the game as aggressively as possible. First there was that tedious trek to and through the castle that MC very well could've and should've done on his own, but even at this stage Greg (for all the wisdom he supposedly gained) is still following the King's orders against his better judgment. So much for having learned his lessons. All through the dungeon MC is doing the heavy lifting while Greg (who again, was shown in extended cutscenes being all AWESOME and COOL) futzes around, and then I'm rewarded with extended cutscenes of Greg's childhood and his moments with I Don't Give a Shit About This Guy's Backstory. Then there's the boss, the first occasion where Greg might've been useful since I had to heal almost every round because the boss was completely ignoring Greg (which, well, can't blame him) but he's still futzing around with スクルト and potions. This whole "Greg Greg Greg don't you love Greg look Greg's in your party he's just so COOOL" was taking HOURS (and again, I'm speedrunning now) and I just wanted it to end so I could relegate him to the bench and not have to deal with this cliche woe-is-me-I'm-an-idiot redemption Mary Sue twatwaffle again. If you found him likeable I guess it's a different experience but to me he's an intolerable affront to the writing.
But now I'm stuck with him!!! It would've been way too much to expect a Frog/Magus Chrono Trigger scenario where the player's forgiveness would've meant so much more because the game actually coded an alternate path, but we didn't even get a DQ1, "dost thou forgive me" "no" "but thou must" loop. Originally I'd have been like whatever just to get it over with but when I got to it I was so ready to kill the guy just to be rid of him, or at least say "no" at first as a fuck you to the writers, but there isn't even a damn prompt. He basically gets the King's blessing (didn't we just go through this bro??) to join and then just does after being completely useless in every conceivable way outside of on-the-rails cutscenes. And please don't start with how he gets powerful later; I mean this not just in a meta sense but an in-story sense. Clearly, this guy's biggest failing was unquestionably following orders from his King. Well, I'd just recently completed a mission where the party had to discern between two Queens, one an imposter and the other needing our help. That's in the fucking game!! It had just happened! It was the mission for the last orb, of all things, which showed we needed characters like Cammy or Veronica who can sense when things are off and do things like live as an outlaw or assault someone wearing a crown while this twit just showed he's still blindly following the King's bidding. It's less of an issue but still annoying that IIRC for being an ice queen he's extremely mouthy and the camera just can't get enough of him, but he spends almost none of those words on self-reflection on just how profound his role was in getting the world to this state. I mean, duuude. . . this isn't about you, or me, just, you do realize you can't fully redeem your role in killing almost everybody, right? I mean, making a fort town was a good start but in joining the party this is the one thing that really needed resolution, but that's brushed off with a "I'm not making that mistake again". . . and then does the King's bidding again. Uh, stay away from me, k, bro? You gon' get me killed. So even in-game he should be ruled entirely incompetent and is better off running the village garrison (where his fealty well beyond idiocy would have some actual use)
but at this point it's not about the player's agency so fuck it all.

Now I'm at the temple and I'm STILL with this jackass and no other company, no way to get rid of him and no end in sight.
There can't be any payoff that can make up for this utter shit; I'm ready to call it quits and not look back.
 
C

Com Truise

Member
Why are you being so goddamn dramatic about absolutely nothing.
He tags along to help out the MC because he fucked up earlier, there is really nothing more to it and there is also nothing wrong with it. "I will become your shield", is what he says, and you can take that literally because he's the best tank. This whole "he took over the story" thing, it's all in your head dude. It's his arc in the story, obviously he's going to feature prominently in it and save the MC's ass. That's how every other character arc in this game works.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
dragonchild said:
Well, "that" happened. I hit the section where I guess I'm obligated to put everything in SPOILER text.
Click to expand...

I don't really know what to say as I never felt as strongly as you clearly do about that section, but I highly suggest you to continue playing.
The part of the game after you get beaten by the 魔王 is not solely about Greg. It's not Greg's story. That single section is about Greg.
I'm not entirely sure how far you are right now, but that section of the game is about character backstory, and that includes characters other than Greg. I wouldn't get so hung up on him.
 
D

dragonchild

Banned
Because again, it just won't end. This game was almost 50 hours of fun for the most part and I was really looking forward to post-game but this is probably the worst writing & execution in a DQ game since Level 5 meddling, and maybe even worse.
If he was just a bonus party member I could just bench him
but the game isn't giving me a whit of agency here. I stayed up late last night to try to power through it and get it over with (which if I'd succeeded, probably no rant) but ran out of energy instead.
It takes an awful lot of bottom-of-the-barrel shitty writing to set 50 hours of emotional investment on fire, and it's on the verge of succeeding. That's what I'm pissed about.
 
D

dragonchild

Banned
Well, DQ was never quality writing but this is Mary Sue Internet fanfiction shit. Don't force me to love a character, and it's not like this happened for the other characters so I have to admit I was completely blindsided. The phrase "Mary Sue" was literally invented for crap like this. I think I'm at the point where his arc is in the rear-view mirror but he's now permanently irritating and
since he's the only other party member
for the foreseeable future I still have to put up with this walking cliche.

I just want the old party back, or at least three other members so I can bench this guy.
 
E

Eien1no1Yami

Member
dragonchild said:
Well, DQ was never quality writing but this is Mary Sue Internet fanfiction shit. Don't force me to love a character, and it's not like this happened for the other characters so I have to admit I was completely blindsided. The phrase "Mary Sue" was literally invented for crap like this. I think I'm at the point where his arc is in the rear-view mirror but he's now permanently irritating and
since he's the only other party member
for the foreseeable future I still have to put up with this walking cliche.

I just want the old party back, or at least three other members so I can bench this guy.
Click to expand...

You sound like he sticks a lot of time with you but he's really not and after you find the other party members he talks a lot less than you think.Well, yeah from time to time he may comment on something and say a one-liner that will irritate you, but really, he isn't the main focus of the story, like at all.
I find it a little bit hyberbolic to quit the entire game because of it.I can maybe understand that it annoyed you and you hate the character, but I would suggest to take a deep breath, relax for a few days without playing and then come back and finish it.All this hate that you bring out right now is something of the moment and not permanent
 
D

dragonchild

Banned
Eien1no1Yami said:
You sound like he sticks a lot of time with you but he's really not and after you find the other party members he talks a lot less than you think.Well, yeah from time to time he may comment on something and say a one-liner that will irritate you, but really, he isn't the main focus of the story, like at all.
I find it a little bit hyberbolic to quit the entire game because of it.I can maybe understand that it annoyed you and you hate the character, but I would suggest to take a deep breath, relax for a few days without playing and then come back and finish it.All this hate that you bring out right now is something of the moment and not permanent
Click to expand...
Well I did need to get that rant out (sorry, folks) but when I say "he took over the story" I don't mean I expect him to be the protagonist going forward. Rather, there are some Mary Sue fanfic things in place that are generally considered by writers as a character "taking over". The NPCs went from talking about MC to
gushing about Greg. MC's rep was never earned in the first place so I'm OK with the first half (in fact when he lost his powers this became genuinely intriguing, though it seems they're not going to do much with it),
but the latter is pure Mary Sue. Second, nerfing the MC in cutscenes. Thirty-plus levels of watching MC grow, only for him to inexplicably turn into a doofus in the name of
giving Greg even more coolness points
. I wanted to throw the controller when
he had the gall to say, "I can't cover for you anymore."
The writers are obviously very, very fond of this guy, and that's the problem. It's a cardinal sin as it is for a writer to enforce one's fondness for a character (as a writer you can be fond of a character, but it's in bad taste to show it); these methods of doing so are as bad as writing ever gets. It adds insult to injury that this is an RPG (at least a movie is shorter) and they're so willing to trash tens of hours of investment in the MC so they can put this cliche on a pedestal. I'm sure his arc is over but since MC is silent
there's only one mouth yapping all the time so it still feels like Greg the Hero show and MC's the one tagging along.

As for going forward, this is going to come down to me knowing exactly how much longer I have to put up with this idiot. I gotta work now, but when I get the chance I'm going to do some digging and if it's more than an hour or so, well, some things are just not meant to be sat through. Even The Phantom Menace mercifully ended at a bit over two hours and I've already endured this for at least as long in spite of my best efforts to push through it.
 
Prophane33

Prophane33

Member
Just a heads up that the official guide comes out tomorrow. Still no update on how many pages, though I expect it to be even longer than the 488 page guide from V-Jump. I likely won't get it till the weekend, but will give my impressions, as I did with the day one guide. Should be getting to the end this week (work has really got in the way lately), so looking forward to having a guide for post-game stuff.
 
P

plenilune

Member
It's weird the
mermaid is alive in post-game past-world even if you made the choice (tell the truth) that would kill her.
Apparently S-E denied it as a bug and called it a feature.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
Finally got around to finishing the game. Wasn't expecting the final boss to be as hard as it was considering my party is level 99 and decently geared. Ending was pretty good, I liked the way they did the credits.
 
A

Autumn Wind

Member
Are there any missable monsters? It looks like I missed the regular
Hell's Claw
and I would like to complete the monster book though there are others.

As for +3 equipment, I usually have to fail once (get +1 or +2) and then remake the item and I get a +3 no problem. In order to get the
Rainbow Pearls
needed I just make lower rank items to +3 such as E, D, or C and then use those to upgrade the Rank S.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
Ok so after you get really finish the game how do you
download the first dragon quest? I enter the code, got the ダウンロード権
but don't understand how to actually download the thing.
 
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