Team Andromeda
Member
Well said.
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Dreamcast documentary by Archipel (toco toco) Part 1
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xpresstuning
Member
I'm a fan of SEGA, so i'll be sure to watch this documentary later.
I think it's a great machine to collect for, despite the fact that most of its games have been ported elsewhere - i believe that should never deter your motivation to collect for a system. You're getting the original physical release for the original console which is a different entity with a different collector's value attributed to it than the re-releases
. If you have the machine and if you're interested to collect video games for it, i believe it's preferable to not be influenced by the fact that the games are ported elsewhere, because it's limiting the potential of the collection you'd have for the system otherwise.
And the Dreamcast is not an exception here, which makes me wonder why it's more often than not treated as such. There's a very small exclusivity value to any console, including the current lineup. With maybe two exceptions that i'm not entirely familiar with (Turbografx-16/Sega Master System).
As far as the console itself goes, it's not my favorite system. I really enjoyed some of its games, but it doesn't have nearly as many great video games as the Mega Drive or the Sega Saturn that appeal to me.
I appreciate these lists, i'm always on the search for good video game channels for subscription.
I think it's a great machine to collect for, despite the fact that most of its games have been ported elsewhere - i believe that should never deter your motivation to collect for a system. You're getting the original physical release for the original console which is a different entity with a different collector's value attributed to it than the re-releases
. If you have the machine and if you're interested to collect video games for it, i believe it's preferable to not be influenced by the fact that the games are ported elsewhere, because it's limiting the potential of the collection you'd have for the system otherwise.And the Dreamcast is not an exception here, which makes me wonder why it's more often than not treated as such. There's a very small exclusivity value to any console, including the current lineup. With maybe two exceptions that i'm not entirely familiar with (Turbografx-16/Sega Master System).
As far as the console itself goes, it's not my favorite system. I really enjoyed some of its games, but it doesn't have nearly as many great video games as the Mega Drive or the Sega Saturn that appeal to me.
I appreciate these lists, i'm always on the search for good video game channels for subscription.
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cireza
Member
Would like to jump to this world line Steins Gate style.
Grand Theft Scratchy
Banned
Yeah, and also saying there was no one over the age of 30. I do like how one of them said they didn't view the Dreamcast as a failure despite its performance and the company's decision to exit the hardware market. There was still excitement for making games on somebody else's console simply because they didn't do it before.
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MrTroubleMaker
Member
Nice, I'll watch this when I get some free time 
Poordevil
Member
Well done documentary! I really felt for that one fella ( sorry, I did not catch their names ) who was apologizing to us for not making games good enough to keep the Dreamcast afloat. But they gave us good games! Even really great ones. I loved Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II. Jet Grind Radio was pretty cool. Some of the games were kinda quirky, but everything was well done. Quake III Arena was on the Dreamcast too. I just can not agree that main reason Dreamcast was cut short was due to a sub standard library of games. Looking back on it I think it was a solid line up, and at the time as a Dreamcast gamer I do not remember thinking, this system could use some decent games. I remember enjoying it and being pleased with the offerings.
EightBit Man
Member
Are you the person who I've seen active on other SEGA forums? Either way, thanks! Think he's been treated for far too long as some sort of messiah, or "savior". We barely hear about SEGA of America pushing the terrible FMV games (seen as the "future of gaming"), lack of localizing some of the greatest Japanese games, the length they wanted to stretch the Genesis' life-time, and the severe lack of belief in the SEGA Saturn, ...and many other things...
This is not the hallmark of good leadership:
(Next Generation (US), issue 13)
Not to say that he didn't do some good things, but I think this man has done more damage than good in the end. And instead of admitting that he shouldn't have been in charge of anything beyond the Genesis, he seems to have convinced a large portion of SEGA fans that SEGA of Japan were the "bad guys", twisting things in order to come out good. Recent example. In short; that man has a very big, yet fragile ego.
Team Andromeda
Member
I'm a fan of SEGA, so i'll be sure to watch this documentary later.
I think it's a great machine to collect for, despite the fact that most of its games have been ported elsewhere - i believe that should never deter your motivation to collect for a system. You're getting the original physical release for the original console which is a different entity with a different collector's value attributed to it than the re-releases
And the Dreamcast is not an exception here, which makes me wonder why it's more often than not treated as such. There's a very small exclusivity value to any console, including the current lineup. With maybe two exceptions that i'm not entirely familiar with (Turbografx-16/Sega Master System).
As far as the console itself goes, it's not my favorite system. I really enjoyed some of its games, but it doesn't have nearly as many great video games as the Mega Drive or the Sega Saturn that appeal to me.
I appreciate these lists, i'm always on the search for good video game channels for subscription.
These are also good SEGA channels
Are you the person who I've seen active on other SEGA forums? Either way, thanks! Think he's been treated for far too long as some sort of messiah, or "savior". We barely hear about SEGA of America pushing the terrible FMV games (seen as the "future of gaming"), lack of localizing some of the greatest Japanese games, the length they wanted to stretch the Genesis' life-time, and the severe lack of belief in the SEGA Saturn, ...and many other things...
This is not the hallmark of good leadership:
(Next Generation (US), issue 13)
Not to say that he didn't do some good things, but I think this man has done more damage than good in the end. And instead of admitting that he shouldn't have been in charge of anything beyond the Genesis, he seems to have convinced a large portion of SEGA fans that SEGA of Japan were the "bad guys", twisting things in order to come out good. Recent example. In short; that man has a very big, yet fragile ego.
I admire SEGA America and Tom K for the effort they did with the Mega Drive/Genesis how they looked to pack in Sonic with the system and also really push the Mega CD and make it a system worth owning (unlike SOJ) but lets face it without Sonic or John Madden the Genesis would never have sold as well. That's to overlook how wasteful SOA was with money and lack of cash flow. Wasting large amounts of money on PR, silly stuff like the Mega Drive 3D glasses, The Activator, The FMV games and the horrible waste of money on the Multi-Media studio (which only one 1 good game and 1 utter crap game) . Tom lies over the 32X, he lies over how SEGA could have had the PlayStation or in how SEGA Japan was horrible to the USA staff and all because he made a terrible call over the 32X and to prolong the life of the Mega Drive; He felt the price advantage alone would win the day, never mind how he failed to get SEGA America pipelines up to 32Bit standards. SOA 32Bit output on both the 32X and Saturn was shocking, terrible and full of bad calls...
It was clear the FMV fad had its days and let SOA was spending nearly $7 million dollars on Scared Pools and Mr Bones was SOA biggest ever spend and biggest ever production and again was an FMV game, add in terrible games like Congo, Ghen War, Black Fire and totally messing up Sonic X production and it was shocking . Also, no one speaks of the job SEGA Europe did, unlike in America or Japan, The NES or Super Nintendo never outsold the Master system or the Mega Drive in Europe. Tom K is just like Trip Hawkings Kings of spin, hype and both talk the talk, but noth not so ready to walk the walk, for their mistakes and look to blame others
Team Andromeda
Member
I'm a fan of SEGA, so i'll be sure to watch this documentary later.
I think it's a great machine to collect for, despite the fact that most of its games have been ported elsewhere - i believe that should never deter your motivation to collect for a system. You're getting the original physical release for the original console which is a different entity with a different collector's value attributed to it than the re-releases
And the Dreamcast is not an exception here, which makes me wonder why it's more often than not treated as such. There's a very small exclusivity value to any console, including the current lineup. With maybe two exceptions that i'm not entirely familiar with (Turbografx-16/Sega Master System).
As far as the console itself goes, it's not my favorite system. I really enjoyed some of its games, but it doesn't have nearly as many great video games as the Mega Drive or the Sega Saturn that appeal to me.
I appreciate these lists, i'm always on the search for good video game channels for subscription.
Retro Core
Randomised Gaming
Switch retro gaming
Are good channels for SEGA stuff, most of the time
EightBit Man
Member
I feel exactly the same way. Also, things like Sonic 2sday, the luring of third-parties towards the Genesis who were tired of Nintendo's restrictions, and overall marketing of the Genesis and it's software were very admirable actions. And indeed, he's been lying over a lot of things. If Michael Katz was blamed for spending too much money, then Tom Kalinske shouldn't have been put off the hook. Thing is, there are hints of the truth in the book Console Wars (if one reads between the lines/lies), for example SEGA of Japan's Mike Fischer saying to Tom that “Nakayama trusts you more than he trusts his own staff". If we are to believe the book Hayao Nakayama wanted Tom to stay after announcing his resignation. Maybe that was the stone in the shoe, ultimately. And yes, SEGA of America contributed nothing worthwhile to the 32-bit systems, if anything they were held back by them. The early launch of the Saturn in America was also a terrible idea, alienating retailers and potential publishers and developers.
Side question; do you think SEGA of America was instrumental in strengthening SONY and their PlayStation project? Steve Race was working for SEGA for a while, and SEGA and SONY had a close relationship during the SEGA CD period. SONY of Japan didn't really believe in the project at first, but the folks in America did.
And good point on the downplaying of SEGA of Europe's legacy; they did a fantastic job I think. And all without the whole SEGA vs. Nintendo way of marketing; they let the great games speak for themselves. I've never been a fanboy, and it's probably because of the way things were handled here in Europe.
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sublimit
Banned
I haven't read the book Console Wars myself but i heard others talk about it and it really strucked me how the author (from what people said) seemed to make Sega of America the heroes that tried to save Sega and the Japanese part of Sega the types of people who didn't had a clue of what they were doing and how they didn't knew how to sell the console in the West.
I just couldn't believe how one part suppossedly got everything right while the other part got everything wrong...
I just couldn't believe how one part suppossedly got everything right while the other part got everything wrong...
Team Andromeda
Member
I've seen various interviews with Scott Bayless, Marty Franz and The late Joe Miller, none of which back up Tom Kalinske claims of SEGA Japan being horrible to work with (in fact the complete opposite) The recent interview with Hideki Sato puts to bed, any talk of SEGA were looking to work with Sony or had access to the PS Hardware and Phil Harrison even said Sony used SEGA and the Mega CD to get used to working on a CD console. No one, also talks of the SONY issues between SONY America and Japan; arguing over pricing is what made Olafsson leave SONy and also led to SONY Japan firing USA staff and closing down SONY Canada just after the launch of the PSX.
SEGA Japan main screws ups were allowing SOA to develop SONIC X, letting SOA carry on with the 32X, no SONIC team Japan SONIC game and not doing more to get Square on the Saturn . Everyone forgets that untill the FF7 demo hit Japan, the Saturn had sold user base advantage in Japan of nearly 2 million systems .
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EightBit Man
Member
Yes. I've read some of those interviews on the SEGA-16 site (the start of my investigation, really), and of course the recent interview with Hideki Sato. If anything, Namco was the closest partner SONY had with the PlayStation. SONY didn't have to rely on of-the-shelf parts like SEGA did; they manufactured everything themselves. A huge risk, but it ultimately worked out well in the end. The conflict between SONY's Japanese and American divisions is also a interesting story. Even within SONY of Japan there was internal conflict about Ken Kutaragi's proposed system. It's quite a miracle that we ever got to see the system as we know it today.
Yes, I think Hayao Nakayama was a little "too fond" of Tom Kalinske. He was given more freedom than his own staff in Japan, and this is basically the bottom line. Instead of admitting he made major mistakes (within that freedom), he wants us to believe that the Saturn would've been powered by the "same chip that powered the Nintendo 64", or that "our 32-bit system would've been the SEGA and SONY PlayStation". First of all, even if that was the case, I'm absolutely no fan of the Nintendo 64 and it's architecture, and second the Saturn was a fantastic piece of hardware in itself.
And yes, the Saturn did very well in japan, being SEGA's best-selling system in Japan. It even outsold the Nintendo 64 over there, Mr. Kalinske. So, why did it fail here? Because of SEGA of America's lack of interest in the system, and I guess not all people, but certainly the ones in charge. One of the biggest pieces of evidences (I think) is that we didn't we see a Genesis-like aggressiveness coming from them, marketing the system. They never pointed out the differences between the PlayStation and Saturn, like the former's lack of built-in memory and pack-in game. Bernie Stolar taking over somehow made a terrible situation even worse, messing up SEGA's relationship with Working Designs, and telling us that the Saturn wasn't their future.
Ruthlessness is what sums up SEGA of America best I guess during the transition towards the 32-bit era.
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Team Andromeda
Member
The
Yep .Tom was a great sales man mind , but SOJ never gave him a game to sell the Saturn, like Sonic .Also, if Tom was still at SOA in 1998 I believe he would have green light the Grandia translation and would have seen more Workings Design games for the Saturn
cireza
Member
Being from France, I can say that MS and MD were very strong platforms here, and very well supported. Many games translated in all languages which was absolutely awesome. I played Landstalker, Light Crusader, Soleil, La Légende de Thor all in French.
Also we did not miss on any major MD RPG and this was also fantastic.
RAIDEN1
Member
The thing is amidst all this talk about Kalinske, (I only just came across the details of the documentary on YouTube a short while ago so yet to see it all..) the Sega Saturn as I've always said was 1992 tech released in 1995....for some reason if you look at it, with the mixed results Sega had with the Master-System they then came back to the drawing board circa 1987 with a system that gave the Super Nintendo a run for its money like no other competitor would! A system easy to develop for etc...now you would think when it came to the follow up for the console they would learn what made the MD the success that it was and then build upon it....instead they made a saturn that was difficult to develop for, struggled to get near arcade perfect ports of what was cutting edge sega games at the time in the arcades, I was shocked to see that Gale Racer which was a take on Rad Racer from the arcades in 1991, the Saturn struggled to even deliver a perfect port from a game dating back to even then....by the time 1998 came around Sega were already on borrowed time in the hardware scene due to the near global flops that were the 32x and the Sega Saturn...their name was in the dirt..hence why you never hear anyone refer to the Dreamcast as the SEGA DREAMCAST...it is a minor miracle that they are still even around albeit as a software developer otherwise they could have ended up like 3DO and Commodore...
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TaroYamada
Member
Great vids but bizarr-o world watching some of these devs say they didn't personally do enough to keep Sega in the race. The Dreamcast's lifespan was very short and the console had a crazy line-up in that time, few consoles rival its release schedule for such a short window of time and I'd argue none have ever had a similar first party line-up of that caliber within a similar time frame.
EightBit Man
Member
Team Andromeda
Member
I always thought France was one of the few parts of Europe Nintendo did well in the 8 and 16 bit days. SEGA Europe really did so much and also long before SONY looked to make gaming cool too
cireza
Member
France is basically Nintendo-land and Sony-land nowadays. But back then, MegaDrive and Master System were extremely popular.
Team Andromeda
Member
SEGA trouble was it did build on what the Mega Drive did well. More power from the CPU, Using Assemble language and using sprites for both the 2D and 3D graphics. Also, let's not overlook how the PS had issues with Arcade ports itself (for a laugh play Xmen COTA or Darius Gaiden on it) how the PS2 was very hard to programme for, never mind how sometimes it couldn't even better Dreamcast for Arcade ports. There can be lots of reasons why an Arcade port doesn't make full use of the system and it mostly down the lack of skill from the developer or more so, the game was simply rushed out to market
Don't get your little dig at SEGA Dreamcast; Not only have I heard many people call it that. I don't really recall many people calling the PlayStation the 'SONY PlayStation' or the 360 the 'Microsoft Xbox 360'
EightBit Man
Member
The Mega Drive had a almost decade year old technology in it (Motorola 68000 architecture was introduced in 1979, but was very expensive at that time). The Saturn's SuperH RISC Engine was almost brand new in comparison.
Stefan.North
Member
I sometimes imagine a world where Dreamcast lived full console cycle and that Sega released at one more console in 2004 
Sega was awesome
Sega was awesome