AncientDiety
Banned
Seems to me MS just don't get PC gaming or PC gamers at all. They just always do things wrong. Then they wonder why their ideas flop hard.
While I agree with everything in the article, what is different from apple store vs a windows store?
Why is it fair for Apple to do this and not Microsoft? Is it just because people want to continue status quo?
While I agree with everything in the article, what is different from apple store vs a windows store?
Why is it fair for Apple to do this and not Microsoft? Is it just because people want to continue status quo?
Durante can have my respect (as a gamer) for some fixing he did for the gaming community but unluckly he iS ALSO a well-known active user of an famous gaming message board called NEOGAF and like most of that forum users he just seem completely and absolutely anti-ms no matter what......like him lots of other NEOGAF users push everyday this sort of anti-ms crusade ..you can go to check his entire history of doom and gloom post parade.so seen also that one of the bigger executive In MS said already on twitter that uwp is open and they will talk more about it at //build/ conference ...take this OPINION article like it is.....
Obviously, Apple is a big reason this is happening. The main difference is, especially with iOS Apple has never been open. Windows on the other hand, always has, so forcing everyone into a closed system at this point is the issue. If they want to create a new closed platform, and try to get people to switch, fine.
Ultimately, I don't think MS is going to be successful with this, but collateral damage along the way is the concern.
It's bullshit for Apple, too.While I agree with everything in the article, what is different from apple store vs a windows store?
Why is it fair for Apple to do this and not Microsoft? Is it just because people want to continue status quo?
Yeah? Here's how you do it for real: you pull a Sony.They are not deluded enough to believe PC gamers will accept that piece of shit.
Online = free on PC. No way around that.
I honestly don't think this has any chance of working. And thank God for that.It's bullshit for Apple, too.
Yeah? Here's how you do it for real: you pull a Sony.
You put out Windows Games with Gold first, without tying it to any sort of multiplayer experience. You ask for a small monthly fee, and you give out free PC games. You're not trying anything shady, it's just a subscription for games. Humble Bundle does it, right? It's just like Humble Monthly, no problem!
You keep putting out various UWA games on the store, occasionally slipping one of the older ones into Windows Games with Gold. Now you've got people paying a monthly fee, and some percentage (or most) of those games are UWAs.
Now it's time for the next Halo to come out, and shockingly it's going to be on PC, too! Windows 10 store exclusive! But it has cross-platform play, which you need a Windows Games with Gold account to access. A lot of you already have WGwG, right? It's totally "worth it' to have a WGwG account anyway, so why not go ahead and get one?
Secretly I blame Apple for everything (well, let's say 99% of everything) wrong with computing today.Obviously, Apple is a big reason this is happening
While many would probably quibble about calling Windows "open," this does seem to be technically true. Windows contains a big switch to control how it uses UWP apps with three settings. The strictest setting, which was the default when Windows 10 originally shipped, will only let you install apps from the store. The middle setting allows you to sideload UWP apps from anywhere, meaning that it can plausibly be used to enable apps from outside Microsoft's store. The apps must still have a digital signature, but they can be signed with any certificate that the system trusts. The third option is developer mode; this allows not just sideloading, but debugging and other developer-oriented capabilities.
Thanks for the the heads up, will give this article the attention it deserves. And thanks in advance to Durante for devoting your time and energy to writing it.
Edit: as expected, that was a great article. It will be interesting to see which developers Microsoft manages to rope into their efforts at a closed system monopoly. A lot of companies have been pulling this shit over the past decade, Autodesk, Adobe, MS, Apple, it's amazing that legislation has fallen so far behind. I guess there's no law that prevents MS from turning their own product into an even more tightly controlled anti-consumer money maker as long as alternatives exist.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/03/tim-sweeney-is-missing-the-point-the-pc-platform-needs-fixing/
Presumably this article is missing the point which is that at any point in time in the future Microsoft can update the OS or later versions of Windows to remove the less strict options.
The difference with Origin is that EA has no control over the OS. They can't use means to force you to use thier store over any other. Microsoft does have that power.
It was suspicious the moment MS started giving away and even trying to force Win 10 on users. They must plan to make money from these users in a different way. If we're all just running traditional third party windows programs then Microsoft aren't getting a cent from anyone in this model. The plan is obviously to nudge or push us towards the store they get a cut from every purchase.
Hitman GO $0.1 purchase from Windows Store - standard Unity datafiles, plain to see and tinker with.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, if it gains enough traction it become the world's new favourite DRM scheme; it's essentially a new (proprietary) take on .exe files and installs in general.Is there any reason to worry about this if you buy stuff outside of the windows store? I mean is there a possibility that this crap could bleed through and affect games sold through Steam, Uplay etc?
Because if not I think we are worrying about something thats not really gonna be a big problem. If its Windows store only then this thing will die purely by neglect when it comes to PC gamers. Even if it didnt have all the negatives of UWA, Windows store would still have a hell of a hard time trying to sell PC games just because of their history. People will buy uplay stuff before they buy this. GFWL isnt easily forgotten.
I would love to have sales numbers of TR between Steam and the Windows store. And I would be genuinely surprised if the split is anything other than 99.99% to 0.01% between steam and Windows store respectively.
I can understand wanting this garbage to be removed if you want to buy future first party MS games which will not be released on Steam but if you arent too bothered about the odd games MS releases for the PC here and there this doesnt really seem like a threat.
While I agree with everything in the article, what is different from apple store vs a windows store?
Why is it fair for Apple to do this and not Microsoft? Is it just because people want to continue status quo?
What's worrying is the leverage Microsoft has that EA can't have: Microsoft handles the OS, and if they feel like adoption is being too slow yet people are still primarily playing on PC they can be more heavy handed and start making it harder, if not outright impossible, to release and run games on newer versions of Windows without getting the UWA version. At which point you're essentially left with a customizable build-your-own console, rather than a more open platform where you can tinker with games if you really want to or make sure they can still run rather than having issues like with iOS where it just doesn't work anymore and that's that.I see the Windows store working out like Origin has- people will put up with it for the sake of playing the few games they can't get anywhere else, but for everything else they'll use Steam. As long as that holds I don't see it being a huge threat to the PC ecosystem as a whole.
A++ article, though unless there's a PC port of Vesperia I don't know about I think you named the wrong Tales game.
Hell, you can even blame things that were merely influenced by Apple as being acceptable design rather than straight up wanting their profit margins, saves being tied with game files on 3DS could possibly be tied to iOS, while Vita can almost certainly be blamed on phones given how the PSP was better there (and likely both are highly concerned about piracy, but then backed off that angle with Wii U and PS4 anyway thus kind of arbitrarily screwing over handhelds.)Secretly I blame Apple for everything (well, let's say 99% of everything) wrong with computing today.
How can any for-profit company resist that profit margin? It's like back when everyone wanted to be WoW, but now everyone wants to own an app store.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, if it gains enough traction it become the world's new favourite DRM scheme; it's essentially a new (proprietary) take on .exe files and installs in general.
So, yeah. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Only if it actually becomes popular. And over a long period of time.Is there any reason to worry about this if you buy stuff outside of the windows store? I mean is there a possibility that this crap could bleed through and affect games sold through Steam, Uplay etc?
Consider this timeline:
2016: Microsoft convinces some early adopters to jump into UWA by leveraging their console exclusives. They also allow others to sell UWA packages - of course only MS-recognized third party dealers.
2017: Project Centennial (that name tells you all you need to know about the future of Win32) works out and makes it relatively simple to package sandboxed "legacy" Win32 apps in UWA.
2018: With the gradual adoption of Centennial, and more and more software offered as UWA -- and of course a healthy dose of marketing -- the format becomes increasingly popular.
2019: Microsoft introduces DirectX12.5, with some additional features. A footnote mentions that these features are not accessible from legacy (read: Win32) applications.
2020: With even wider adoption of UWA, Microsoft adds additional warnings and hassles for (home, not enterprise!) users trying to install Win32 applications.
While I agree with everything in the article, what is different from apple store vs a windows store?
Why is it fair for Apple to do this and not Microsoft? Is it just because people want to continue status quo?
Man, I wish I didn't have to use the Windows Store because I don't want to support this stuff... But I really can't miss Killer Instinct It's the one and only game I'll buy that is a "UWA".
They just always do things wrong.
Curious - what's your stance on UWP for competitive games? Because the way I see it - most of the restrictions directly benefit these games which are riddled with cheats and other exploits across the board.Durante said:They certainly do restrict access to the execution state of a game/application.
Ding ding ding that is exactly the fear.There's no way they would force use of the store for any application on Windows, though. It would completely break backward compatibility with decades of legacy apps (which is arguably the primary reason why it's used in the enthusiast/enterprise space) and generally destroy everything that makes Windows an appealing platform in the first place. They'll do whatever they can to encourage people to enter the new walled garden they set up, and would ideally like every consumer/developer to use it over standard win32 (though I'm sure even they know that's a pipe dream,) but it would be straight-up suicide for them to put up walls around their existing ecosystem.
I actually like the Windows Store and UWA apps for a lot of things. The Facebook and Pandora apps are fantastic, for example. I've also grabbed a few free games like Sonic Dash on it.
It's a shame to see all the limitations on them tho. Definitely not something I really want for my PC gaming experience.
Good article. The first part is spot-on, the second takes some historical look to be understood. I mean, I'd be even more harsh in my predictions of ms' UWP vision, but I'm an old fart who's had the dubious pleasure to observe ms' entire lifespan.
My stance on competitive games is that they need server-side verification (which includes not making information available to clients that the player is not supposed to have, rendering e.g. wallhacks useless).Curious - what's your stance on UWP for competitive games?
Nope. They were doing things right between the death of GFWL and W10.
AoE II HD, Rise of Nations, Ori and the Blind Forest and some other games on steam.