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[phanphare]

Neither do I think so, but you haven't exactly made a case. You've just been wishy washy about this obvious truthiness of Zelda being THE most beloved and greatest gaming franchise ever.

I did, you omitted that part of my post

either way we're not getting anywhere so I think we can just agree to disagree as to not further derail the thread

botw next week!

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Zelda is a fad. Horizon has dethroned it easily.

It's there in the name...
Horizon: Zero L Dawn
... Horizon sounds a bit like Hyrule so we get Hyrule: Zelda

The new Princess is here?

 

[victreeb3l]

Previous Edge 10s for comparison:

Super Mario 64
Gran Turismo
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Halo: Combat Evolved
Half-Life 2
Halo 3
The Orange Box
Super Mario Galaxy
Grand Theft Auto IV
LittleBigPlanet
Bayonetta
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Rock Band 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
The Last of Us
Grand Theft Auto V
Bayonetta 2
Bloodborne

My favorite Zeldas also got 10s. BoTW is going to be legendary.

I should also finish Bayo 1+2 one of these days..

 

[GregLombardi]

Come on guys, can't we reserve these shitposts for weekdays? Pretty please?


Feb / March has turned into a mini xmas of gaming.

 

[Mafro]

Neither do I think so, but you haven't exactly made a case. You've just been wishy washy about this obvious truthiness of Zelda being THE most beloved and greatest gaming franchise ever.

He's given perfect reasons why in the post you just quoted. Better reasons than the "wishy washy" ones you gave.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Lol what?

Even Shinobi would spit on that one.

It's not -the- most beloved Nin franchise in Japan, but you can't say a franchise that sells routinely 10m+ on its mainline opuses isn't beloved, sorry.

Edit: "was joking" claim. Right.

The Zelda series was at one point what many would consider to be widely beloved, but over time, it's become significantly less so. Your average video gaming consumer today couldn't care less about the Zelda franchise.

Additionally, no Zelda game, mainline opus or not, has ever sold 10 million copies, much less sold 10 million-plus.

Here's hoping that begins to change with BotW! I would like to see that happen.

 

[StoopKid]

Lol

 

[benny_a]

He's given perfect reasons why in the post you just quoted. Better reasons than the "wishy washy" ones you gave.

Just listing adjectives is making an argument?

That's better than saying here are the three criteria that I think are reasonable and in these three criteria it is doing better?
Unless of course you doubt the accuracy of the claim that GTA has vastly outsold Zelda or has been played by more for longer.

 

[titiklabingapat]

This has been a great Spring for gaming. Dawn Horizon beating expectations and Zelda being near-perfect is astounding. Good job, Sony and Nintendo.

 

[Principate]

Well when you say things like Gaming's greatest most beloved series etc. you're not really writing it as opinion.

Just saying I dislike reviews that gush with that kind of hyperbole over any game

Breh every main line 3D zelda game has a MC over 90. It has the highest rated game ever and said game is considered more than any other to be the greatest of all time. Of all the series you could arguably say that about Zelda is one of based on critic accolade.

 

[Discomurf]

If the Switch doesn't have dynamic lighting in some places, the Wii U won't either.

Alternative facts there's already proof if this.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Alternative facts there's already proof if this.

In the E3 Build, yes. There's a likelier chance that too was taken out of the retail release.

 

[phanphare]

Just listing adjectives is making an argument?

are you serious right now? lol

of course those adjectives are making an argument. longevity refers to how long the zelda series has been going on, longer than gta. consistency means that given its longevity each entry into the series has remained of an extremely high quality, critical acclaim refers to many entries in the series being considered some of the best games of all time and pretty much every entry into the series was received extremely well, and influence across the medium is self explanatory

I don't know why you're being so obtuse about this. like, it's fine to disagree. I certainly disagree with your claim but I can't grasp how you're having a hard time seeing where I'm coming from.

the zelda series, moving away from all the things I listed above about the quality of the games from the series, influence, and how long it's been going on, is iconic. the triforce is iconic. the music from the series is iconic. it's reach is well beyond the realm of video games. hell Cucco's are iconic haha.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

It's there in the name...
Horizon: Zero L Dawn
... Horizon sounds a bit like Hyrule so we get Hyrule: Zelda

The new Princess is here?

Aloy to the Past

 

[DNAbro]

It's frankly embarrassing how seriously some people take review scores and how they accept them as fact. People are already calling this a masterpiece and game of the generation. I thought people learned their lesson with Skyward Sword. Most mainstream reviewers simply aren't good at playing or evaluating games (and neither are most gamers). The game might be amazing, but I certainly won't be taking EDGE's word for it, or any other mainstream reviewer.

I guess I assumed everyone else grew out of getting "hyped" at age 14, maybe it was just me. It's stupid to get caught up in the advertising spectacle, you'll only damage your ability to accurately assess the game and to play it without bias.

I'm not here to accurately assess the game. I'm here to enjoy a game that I'm excited for. Also my opinions were completely in line with reviewers on SS. That is a 10/10 game.

 

[Prompto]

Previous Edge 10s for comparison:

Super Mario 64
Gran Turismo
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Halo: Combat Evolved
Half-Life 2
Halo 3
The Orange Box
Super Mario Galaxy
Grand Theft Auto IV
LittleBigPlanet
Bayonetta
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Rock Band 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
The Last of Us
Grand Theft Auto V
Bayonetta 2
Bloodborne

That's some damn good company. Don't really disagree with anything on that list.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Lol

Several incarnations of this pic have certainly gotten a few chuckles out of me!

 

[MrSaturn99]

Edge also gave SS a 10? Ehhhh...

Regardless, BOTW looks absolutely deserving of the hype and more. Friday can't come soon enough.

 

[Palette Swap]

It's there in the name...
Horizon: Zero L Dawn
... Horizon sounds a bit like Hyrule so we get Hyrule: Zelda

The new Princess is here?

So you're saying Horizon is Zelda without that L?

 

[Okolonans]

I'm not here to accurately assess the game. I'm here to enjoy a game that I'm excited for. Also my opinions were completely in line with reviewers on SS. That is a 10/10 game.

As long as you acknowledge that you are willingly deluding yourself by buying into advertising/hype and you are giving up any claim to accurate opinions then that is no problem.

 

[benny_a]

are you serious right now? lol

of course those adjectives are making an argument. longevity refers to how long the zelda series has been going on, longer than gta. consistency means that given its longevity each entry into the series has remained of an extremely high quality, critical acclaim refers to many entries in the series being considered some of the best games of all time and pretty much every entry into the series was received extremely well, and influence across the medium is self explanatory

I don't know why you're being so obtuse about this

I'm not being obtuse.

Longevity is how long a franchise has been around, that for Zelda is a long time.
Consistency and critical acclaim is the same thing to me, as there is no objective measurement of quality that we can determine.

Also that Zelda is the most influential is certainly debatable. How many Zelda-likes are there in comparison to Mario, DOOM, Rogue, GTA?

Edit:

I don't know why you're being so obtuse about this. like, it's fine to disagree. I certainly disagree with your claim but I can't grasp how you're having a hard time seeing where I'm coming from.

Because it's not about what you or I feel. The objection by the poster was about a statement about THE greatest and THE most beloved gaming franchise and then the response to that poster being "so you don't believe it is ONE OF the most beloved..." that's not the issue. It absolutely is and it is incredible. But saying it sits at the top requires a better argument than just it's self-evident and if you disagree we will quote you and make fun of you.

the zelda series, moving away from all the things I listed above about the quality of the games from the series, influence, and how long it's been going on, is iconic. the triforce is iconic. the music from the series is iconic. it's reach is well beyond the realm of video games. hell Cucco's are iconic haha.

It is iconic, but that doesn't make it the greatest or most beloved. Mario is iconic, Master Chief is iconic, Michael Jordon is iconic. Those are different qualities than being the greatest or most beloved, although they can certainly overlap.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

So you're saying Horizon is Zelda without that L?

Ooooohh, harsh. Well spotted but no, i'm getting them both so i want both to be great

The Egend of Zeda: Breath of the Wid isn't taking no L's!

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

are you serious right now? lol

of course those adjectives are making an argument. longevity refers to how long the zelda series has been going on, longer than gta. consistency means that given its longevity each entry into the series has remained of an extremely high quality, critical acclaim refers to many entries in the series being considered some of the best games of all time and pretty much every entry into the series was received extremely well, and influence across the medium is self explanatory

I don't know why you're being so obtuse about this. like, it's fine to disagree. I certainly disagree with your claim but I can't grasp how you're having a hard time seeing where I'm coming from.

the zelda series, moving away from all the things I listed above about the quality of the games from the series, influence, and how long it's been going on, is iconic. the triforce is iconic. the music from the series is iconic. it's reach is well beyond the realm of video games. hell Cucco's are iconic haha.

Sometimes people dont want the loss. So they start posting crazy lol

 

[DNAbro]

As long as you acknowledge that you are willingly deluding yourself by buying into advertising/hype and you are giving up any claim to accurate opinions then that is no problem.

The idea of an "accurate opinion" makes me laugh.

 

[Okolonans]

The idea of an "accurate opinion" makes me laugh.

Probably because you spoil all yours by going along with the crowd or the critics. If you actually use your disinterested aesthetic judgment to form an opinion, it will be more accurate than willingly getting caught up in emotion and hype.

 

[LotusHD]

As long as you acknowledge that you are willingly deluding yourself by buying into advertising/hype and you are giving up any claim to accurate opinions then that is no problem.

 

[Realeza]

Edge also gave SS a 10? Ehhhh...

Regardless, BOTW looks absolutely deserving of the hype and more. Friday can't come soon enough.

Skyward Sword is a fantastic game that, when at its best, it offers some of the best gameplay / level design you see in the medium. I wish other games had sections like the Lanayru Mining Facility or the Sandship.

 

[Cerium]

It's frankly embarrassing how seriously some people take review scores and how they accept them as fact. People are already calling this a masterpiece and game of the generation. I thought people learned their lesson with Skyward Sword. Most mainstream reviewers simply aren't good at playing or evaluating games (and neither are most gamers). The game might be amazing, but I certainly won't be taking EDGE's word for it, or any other mainstream reviewer.

I guess I assumed everyone else grew out of getting "hyped" at age 14, maybe it was just me. It's stupid to get caught up in the advertising spectacle, you'll only damage your ability to accurately assess the game and to play it without bias.

Zelda is the most overrated series of all-time. That it's inspired such a huge and enthusiastic fandom is a testament to the fact that the public at large has terrible taste. It has cool music and Zelda 1 had decent depth, but aside from that it's a shallow game series without much to offer.

I see.

 

[phanphare]

I'm not being obtuse.

Longevity is how long a franchise has been around, that for Zelda is a long time.
Consistency and critical acclaim is the same thing to me, as there is no objective measurement of quality that we can determine.

Also that Zelda is the most influential is certainly debatable. How many Zelda-likes are there in comparison to Mario, DOOM, Rogue, GTA?

who said "most influential"?

certainly not my post that you quoted

and the distinction between critical acclaim and consistency that I'm making is that something like OoT, a critically acclaimed game considered to be one of the best games of all time, isn't just an outlier for the series. each entry in the series has received high marks almost across the board.

 

[Discomurf]

In the E3 Build, yes. There's a likelier chance that too was taken out of the retail release.

Possible but I really doubt it. The demo from Dec. looked like it had it. It was probably a custom lighting effect built for the Wii U version that didn't directly port over. The Wii U version might end up being be the 'glowier' of the two.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

As to the third bolded: I'm not sure. I'm thinking about SS, whose design seems to be the starting point for BotW as its antithesis. My hope is that the openworld has an unusually high degree of level design for an open-world, which I think is a possibility, given footage and previews. In that sense, it could follow from one of the core positives that "compactness" had on SS's design over its predecessors. That the world of BotW is a dungeon, in the sense that it should have that sort of dedication to level design, is a SS idea.

But it is not going to follow, by all accounts, on the very tight puzzle and gadget gameplay that reached its peak in TP and SS. Instead, they are introducing freedom into the puzzles and reducing the impact of new gadgets, to accommodate an open world, non-linear game. And that open world, non-linear game is very much not Skyward Sword 2. To varying degrees I could see it as the sequel to any other Zelda, but not SS.

And that is precisely why I have some concern as to how I'll take to it. I play Zelda for the building gameplay of the building set of gadgets and how they interact with a tightly designed world of puzzles, traversal problems, and monsters. The evolution of 3D Zelda was very much towards the tastes of someone like me. Whenever they talk about BotW, they say things that scare me and it is very much a game I'm hoping I love despite it not being what I wanted from Zelda.

The art, the characters, the towns, etc. have me hyped. The open-world/survival gameplay demonstrated strikes me as often neat but not squarely what I'd want. I'm going to have to get the game into my own hands and be won over that no, me being hyped because it is a new beautiful Zelda is not me setting myself up for disappointment.

I do expect that if there's a 'cycle' backlash against BotW that suddenly draws attention to what people remember fondly about SS, it's probably going to be the puzzle/gadget dungeon design, far more so than other distinguishing features of SS like the divisive motion controls or the puzzle-solving traversal of the overworld, especially as the latter is making a comeback of sorts on a larger and more connected scale. When SS came out, I remember thinking that its layout was the first in the 3D series to be reminiscent of the post-LttP 2D line, where just roaming around the map felt as much like "playing Zelda" as the dungeon crawling, and I get the impression BotW will scratch that itch.

This has been a concern that has been in play ever since ALBW came out: whether the skin of non-linearity really does anything to make the logic-puzzle rooms more interesting, or if they are still compartmentalized by item the way they always were. I've been dreaming of a dungeons-in-any-order Zelda for as long as I've played the 3D series, but obtaining key items in any order doesn't make a lot of difference if the puzzle rooms and dungeons are all developed in parallel in isolation from each other (like a good chunk of ALBW and indeed the back half of Phantom Hourglass, which you could in fact do in any order). Ideally, non-linearity would give us challenges that still feel designed, but which are responsive to the player's chosen path and what has been accomplished thus far in the game. (The model for this I've always had in mind is the original KOTOR, where you have multiple well-defined scenarios and solution spaces that change depending on whether you encounter them early or late.)

Creating your own blocks with the Cane of Somaria didn't make LttP feel "less designed", so to speak, and BotW comes off to me as a 3D game practically built around the Cane of Somaria. But I hope that isn't wishful thinking. Even with the mastery of puzzle/gadget design on display in TP/SS, I always felt that most of the key items were too quickly discarded after their assigned dungeon, and I think when people ask for non-linearity what they really crave is a sense that their whole arsenal of tools still matters, and that asking themselves, "What should I use here?" is still an interesting question. In TP especially, often the question was not "What should I use here?" but "How should I use this dungeon's item here?", and that's the target when people describe the LttP/OoT format as predictable. (TWW broke out of this better than most, I thought, by making all of its items relevant in combat, if not in the puzzles.)

I get what you are saying, anyhow. It's easy to understate how TP/SS retained a capacity for surprise because they followed a formula, and were therefore in a place to subvert it. I don't think BotW's design lends itself at all to moments like the misdirection in Snowpeak, where you see ice blocks everywhere and, following the formula, you're thinking the whole time you'll get Fire Arrows or a Fire Rod. And it's glorious when the LttP-throwback mini-boss drops the Ball & Chain, and you take a second to realize, "I get to use that?"

 

[Servbot24]

The idea of an "accurate opinion" makes me laugh.

Why would that make you laugh?

Opinions aren't a free pass for living in delusion.

 

[Okolonans]

I see.

Lol congrats, you went through my profile like a weirdo and found my opinion on the Zelda series. Unsurprisingly, it is different than the mainstream critical opinion (barring the first one which I think is great). Your point?

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Possible but I really doubt it. The demo from Dec. looked like it had it. It was probably a custom lighting effect built for the Wii U version that didn't directly port over. The Wii U version might end up being be the 'glowier' of the two.

In all fairness though that was a different area entirely. That could just be part of THAT.

 

[rackham]

Breh every main line 3D zelda game has a MC over 90. It has the highest rated game ever and said game is considered more than any other to be the greatest of all time. Of all the series you could arguably say that about Zelda is one of based on critic accolade.

listen I'm no dumb dumb and I understand that Zelda reviews highly but that's just it, imo- imo these games are never 10/10. I've played TP and SS. shouldnt be so highly rated imo. Zelda reviews pretty highly no matter what.

this post will be picked apart no matter how I edit it.

 

[CharminUltra]

I see.

And 2 positive reviews is all it took.

The actual review day is going to be weird.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

That's pretty awesome. I wonder what set Horizon and Zelda apart that gave Zelda the edge(no pun intended), besides it being a LoZ title.

 

[Makai]

Lol congrats, you went through my profile like a weirdo and found my opinion on the Zelda series. Unsurprisingly, it is different than the mainstream critical opinion (barring the first one which I think is great). Your point?

haha

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Just listing adjectives is making an argument?

That's better than saying here are the three criteria that I think are reasonable and in these three criteria it is doing better?
Unless of course you doubt the accuracy of the claim that GTA has vastly outsold Zelda or has been played by more for longer.

At this point, it's indisputable that the GTA series has eclipsed, by quite a margin, the Zelda franchise in terms of sales and popularity, and is now more beloved by a far larger number of gamers across the world.

I myself have never had any interest in the GTA games whatsoever, and would like to see the Zelda series experience a resurgence (and exceed even its all-time high levels of recognition and popularity from years past).

 

[Okolonans]

haha

hot argument, sure convinced me

 

[phanphare]

That's pretty awesome. I wonder what set Horizon and Zelda apart that gave Zelda the edge(no pun intended), besides it being a LoZ title.

you should check out this podcast as they explore that thought in detail and the discussion is quite interesting

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...-the-wild-first-impressions-on-waypoint-radio

 

[UnemployedVillain]

That's pretty awesome. I wonder what set Horizon and Zelda apart that gave Zelda the edge(no pun intended), besides it being a LoZ title.

Have you been reading the previews of both games?

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Lol congrats, you went through my profile like a weirdo and found my opinion on the Zelda series. Unsurprisingly, it is different than the mainstream critical opinion (barring the first one which I think is great). Your point?

I question whether you would be suggesting that the reviews aren't trustworthy, right off the bat, in response to the very first one, if that review had actually aligned with your particular outlook on the series
Previews for this game are universally glowing, to the extent that your post just seems like an attempt to downplay the positivity around this game atm because you're not a fan

 

[Cerium]

Lol congrats, you went through my profile like a weirdo and found my opinion on the Zelda series. Unsurprisingly, it is different than the mainstream critical opinion (barring the first one which I think is great). Your point?

 

[The Last One]

Lol congrats, you went through my profile like a weirdo and found my opinion on the Zelda series. Unsurprisingly, it is different than the mainstream critical opinion (barring the first one which I think is great). Your point?

Talking about weirdos...


You are just embarrassing yourself. Just giving you an outlook.

 

[Struct09]

Previous Edge 10s for comparison:

Super Mario 64
Gran Turismo
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Halo: Combat Evolved
Half-Life 2
Halo 3
The Orange Box
Super Mario Galaxy
Grand Theft Auto IV
LittleBigPlanet
Bayonetta
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Rock Band 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
The Last of Us
Grand Theft Auto V
Bayonetta 2
Bloodborne

Legendary list of games, can't wait to play BOTW!

 

[GinoFelino]

That's a well-deserved sip. Cheers!

 

[Nibel]

Y'all neither deserve Zelda nor Horizon smh

 

[Davey Cakes]

The list of Edge 10s is pretty solid. Replace Grand Theft Auto IV with Red Dead Redemption and Skyward Sword with Dark Souls and it'd be perfect.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

you should check out this podcast as they explore that thought in detail and the discussion is quite interesting

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...-the-wild-first-impressions-on-waypoint-radio

Will do when I have time.

Have you been reading the previews of both games?

Not really, for either. I'm assuming the story is better in LoZ, though.