-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Eiyuden Chronicles is target of critiscism due to western localization
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I've seen worse, but it's annoying how bad these people are at their jobs.
ssringo
Member
The rest didn't seem too bothersome but this was plenty enough for me. The translator is 100% a Ree user. Not touching this game ever.
It's Ree's favorite insult to sling at wrong thinkers and has been for a while now.
Dr.Morris79
Member
It's a fucking disgrace that people funded to get this game made and at the last knocking these cunts get hold and shit on itImagine kickstarting this four years ago and not even having the option to refund
When did they become arbiters of 'all that is holy'?
What a bunch of arseholes.
Meicyn
Gold Member
You do not want 1:1, what you want is a good faith localization. There are certain things that just flat out do not translate well across different languages, due to not being familiar with the nuances of the respective cultures. So you adjust as needed, but must take care not to change the author’s intent, i.e. if a joke is being told that relies on in-depth knowledge of Japanese culture, the joke will not work for outsiders, and now the character is effectively different in that moment, meaning the 1:1 translation did not accomplish the author’s intent.
The real issue comes from when you change character personalities, shove in your personal politics, or use modern slang/idioms that don’t fit the setting. It is entirely valid to be irritated by this. But I sincerely believe pushing for 1:1 translations will make things worse in a different way.
Case in point, take Final Fantasy XIV. One of the expansion packs officially localized as “Shadowbringers”, which sounds way better than a 1:1 literal translation “Jet-Black Villains”. This extends to other stuff as well, like the dungeon content named “Pharos Sirius” which takes place in a lighthouse controlled by a siren. Translate it 1:1 from Japanese and you get “Phantom Bird Tower Sirius Great Lighthouse”. Pharos means lighthouse in ancient greek, and the Lighthouse of Alexandria is sometimes referred to as the Pharos of Alexandria. The FFXIV dungeon exterior clearly takes inspiration from said lighthouse. This is a good faith localization that is far better than what would have been a boring, literal 1:1 port.
Last edited:
N30RYU
Member
You reward them just by downloading it
Pejo
Member
It's like if you find the most mentally ill person on the street and handed them a bunch of pens and sent them into an art exhibit. That's what this is akin to. I generally never wish losing jobs on anybody but I can't wait until localizers (and games journalists but that's not related) are out of jobs forever. Absolute narcissistic scum thinking that they can improve the work of the creators with their memes and pronoun bullshit.
YeulEmeralda
Member
True. People under 25 only know Suikoden from a Kotaku article.
Kiya's Guard
Member
It's another suikoden, I would even allow no waifus just to play it
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Translation of entertainment can be a grey area requiring some creativity. Sometimes you have jokes or puns that literally can't work when translated so they have to actually write original content to fit the tone from the original, such as an original joke. This is even more likely if they're trying to take voice acting into account and make it sound natural. But some people clearly take the liberties way too far at times.
Last edited:
Deerock71
Member
I was not aware of that, since I don't trifle with them. I only knew it's origin story.
Roman Empire
Member
Well, now I have more than enough reasons to not play the official localization. This thing stinks and it is disrespectful to the original work. I loved Suikoden but I can wait for a fan translation before buying this one.
Porcile
Member
Reading the Japanese it has the same problem as something like Unicorn Overlord. The original writing in Japanese is bog-standard and generic.The localisers probably aren't challenged enough by the content so they try to jazz it up out of boredom I imagine. I'm not even particularly good at Japanese but I could do a direct translatiom of some of this stuff without much thought or effort at all.
Paltheos
Member
Mixed feelings.
The images in the top-left are exactly what I want out of a localization, something that spruces up the minutiae of an individual scene without changing the spirit and context of the script. The localization reads much better than the 1-to-1 translation posted adjacent.
The images on the top-right however... are a mistake. Whether you read it as a jab at identity politics made by a tired translator on his x thousandth line or a deliberate rewrite, neither belongs and should have been pulled during an editing pass. The original lines have nothing to do with gender whatsoever, and altering them as such is inappropriate.
Bottom image is... fine. Working Designs-style rewrite, I assume (a direct TL was not posted). If sassy irreverence is the point of the line, the language used isn't that important. Reminds me of the 'bruh' line in Geofront's Trails to Azure fan translation too. I could see it falling susceptible to the passage of time more quickly than other slang and mannerisms, but its usage in the context for the time is acceptable.
tldr: Some overreactions from people here (unsurprising, for the GAF rage machine against TLs is always hungry), but some of it is justified.
The images in the top-left are exactly what I want out of a localization, something that spruces up the minutiae of an individual scene without changing the spirit and context of the script. The localization reads much better than the 1-to-1 translation posted adjacent.
The images on the top-right however... are a mistake. Whether you read it as a jab at identity politics made by a tired translator on his x thousandth line or a deliberate rewrite, neither belongs and should have been pulled during an editing pass. The original lines have nothing to do with gender whatsoever, and altering them as such is inappropriate.
Bottom image is... fine. Working Designs-style rewrite, I assume (a direct TL was not posted). If sassy irreverence is the point of the line, the language used isn't that important. Reminds me of the 'bruh' line in Geofront's Trails to Azure fan translation too. I could see it falling susceptible to the passage of time more quickly than other slang and mannerisms, but its usage in the context for the time is acceptable.
tldr: Some overreactions from people here (unsurprising, for the GAF rage machine against TLs is always hungry), but some of it is justified.
ReyBrujo
Member
If they were translator they had to stick to the letter (for example, when you translate a legal document). In the case of games it's not a direct translation but a localization, you translate it considering cultural references, differences in languages, general knowledge, etc. Sometimes that means you might need to change names of real locations (because maybe for an American audience saying you must go from Hokkaido to Kumamoto doesn't convey distance as well as saying Dallas to Seattle even though if both take about the same travel time). Or to put another example, referencing the atomic bombing for a Japanese player might have a deeper effect than to an American player so a localization team might change that to the 9/11 attacks just to convey stronger feelings.
Truth is, you must play the whole game to get a feeling of the translation, if everything makes sense or not as a whole. If you want the real experience sometimes it's not just enough knowing Japanese and playing it in Japanese because as a foreigner there might be subtle references (history, old series, or just general knowledge) that you might not catch. I kind of agree with
Paltheos
in that some are overreacting and that this looks more like witch hunting and looking for excuses for backslashing.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Unfortunately, that's completely normal in western localizations and all other languages get fucked because they have to take stupid english localizations, I hope for the day english localizers stop doing this, I really REALLY hate it, why they can't stop putting their stupid slangs and "smart phrases" into localizations? Why do they think everyone wants that? Can't they just provide a normal translation without weird changes (names, phrases, etc.) for other languages and then have their own localization without having to shit completely on the rest of the west?
What I hate the most is fucking name changes, WHY THEY KEEP DOING THIS?
In Xenoblade 2 it crossed so many red lines it literally completely changed dialogs in several situations.
Japanese games translations are always doomed as soon as an american localization gets in place. ALWAYS.
What I hate the most is fucking name changes, WHY THEY KEEP DOING THIS?
In Xenoblade 2 it crossed so many red lines it literally completely changed dialogs in several situations.
Japanese games translations are always doomed as soon as an american localization gets in place. ALWAYS.
shoplifter
Member
to make it clear that you're a True Believer in The Message
Kataploom
Gold Member
You can just translate directly without modifying the sense of the phrase, I'll invent some cases (using my limited japanese) to show you how it feels to read a standard japanese translation:
Dialog: "Yoshi! Ike!"
Translations:
"Alright, let's go!" (Neutral aceptable translation)
"They won't know what hit them!" (Weird subtitle an american localizer can think is better for reasons)
Dialog: "Aaaa! Zettai ya da yo!"
"Uh?! Definitely not!" (Neutral aceptable translation)
"Wait wait waaaaaait, [another_character_name] tell me it's not real!" (Weird subtitle an american localizer can think is more funny hahaha and better for reasons)
Dialog: "Aibo, kore wa saigo no tatakai!"
"Comrad, this is will be our last fight!" (Neutral aceptable translation)
"Watch your steps, our destiny is in your hands! We trust you!"
(Weird subtitle an american localizer can think is better for reasons)
I wouldn't mind if that virus didn't leak into spanish localizations but we have to deal with whatever the original english translator thought was funny and goofy because anime is funny and goofy hahaha it's just cartoons and whatever.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Kataploom
Gold Member
Frustrated writers that couldn't even find a way in Wattpad, probably
Last edited:
PonyStation4
Member
The translation is amateur level. For example
Japanese = I'm sorry
English = LOL why is your face like that?
They changed the tone of a conversation from one of an apology to making fun of the main character.
Japanese = I'm sorry
English = LOL why is your face like that?
They changed the tone of a conversation from one of an apology to making fun of the main character.
Barakov
Member
I'm hoping they fix the localization issues but that just comes off as they're just fixing bugs. Think I just might bite the bullet and play it in Japanese.
Last edited:
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Man, now I’m wondering how much retarded infantile JRPG dialog was the fault of the original writers, and how much was due to some localized who’s nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is.
Shouta
Member
Pretty much. The only line I saw get brought up that's a problem to me is the "You sure it's a he?" one which is a really stupid one that can piss off everyone if you look at it a little funny. Some of the other screenshots I saw get brought up elsewhere were definitely mostly on point with the complaints stemming from their personal interpretation being different rather than it actually being incorrect.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
What a shitshow. Imo it's fine to localise a little bit to try and make stuff fit better the setting. For example, I don't mind Unicorn Overlord's translation since the shakespearean style fits the medieval setting, and aside from that I think they didn't change much else.
Making stuff up or injecting political shit like "uuuh you sure that's their gender?" is a total disrespect to the original writters.
All this shit reminds of this gem of a fan translation:
Making stuff up or injecting political shit like "uuuh you sure that's their gender?" is a total disrespect to the original writters.
All this shit reminds of this gem of a fan translation:
Last edited:
GHound
Member
Bro you can't just call out Victor Ireland like that.
Killer8
Member
Curious to see what the changes end up being. I wonder how the directive to fix the localization was doled out to the
I have a feeling that in this DEI saturated world they will, but it surely costs money to clean up after them now that more people are making noise about it. The best outcome is for the work to simply dry up and for these people to be out on the streets.
NeoLed
Member
Reward who? Do you know how many hands made this game?
Should we boycott and punish artist/developer because a translator, a small part of the game took some liberties? That sound like an extremist.
We should be able to play/enjoy the game and then complaining about the bad translations at the same time.
NeoLed
Member
Show it here. That's a very good example to convince the point
PonyStation4
Member
Dirk Benedict
Member
We need to complain more and buy less. I've done my part, but I am only one man.
If you don't want to push back on this, that's fine. But other people are willing to, if it can stop or slow down this shit. Otherwise? Let's go back to when games barely had any kind of dialogue at all, minus quick explanations of gameplay, during transitional screens. I'd rather go back to that, than read mother fuckers slactisvism.
I really don't want to read these peoples thoughts. I just want them to translate what the Developers are trying to Honestly Convey!
Is there something wrong with that?!!?
I certainly do not think so.
Last edited:
NeoLed
Member
Is this part far in the story. Maybe I should fire up the game to see it tonight?
From what I see just by that picture, even the JP side didn't show her sincerily apologizing. She is laughing at both language, so maybe the context is they're playing around and she somehow make the MC's face get messed up.
Not having the full banter make it hard to fully convince me there are a big liberties or discrepancy of meaning here
Last edited:
That's an interesting interpretation. Context is very important and, to say the least, isolated screenshots will rarely give you that.
It doesn't mean the specific translation choices cannot be criticized at all, but this idea that any deviation from the literal translation of the original text is forbidden...come on, folks.
Last edited:
I doubled-majored in CS and Japanese, and most of the localization looks fine to me.
Japanese is highly contextual. You have to adapt some things because there is often no direct equivalent. My teacher used to make it a weekly class exercise where we'd be given some Japanese text to translate, and then the next day, she'd go over our answers. 1 Japanese text translated by 20 students = 20 different translations - and the teacher deemed most of them valid.
To highlight some interesting differences between the languages:
GOOD - You've got a lens, Nowa? (fine)
GOOD - There, did you see the glint? (fine)
GOOD - Got him! (fine)
MAYBE - "Well, ladies and gentlemen, so do I"
MAYBE - "Rub-a-dub-dub, don't be a flub"
The above two lines may be justifiable in the context of giving Lian more character. For example, how would you adapt a Kansai or Osakan dialect? Often translators make them sound southern.
BAD - "Chud"
BAD - "You sure it's a he?"
The above two lines are absolutely inexcusable, however. And that's where my benefit of the doubt ends.
Game is going on my shit list.
Japanese is highly contextual. You have to adapt some things because there is often no direct equivalent. My teacher used to make it a weekly class exercise where we'd be given some Japanese text to translate, and then the next day, she'd go over our answers. 1 Japanese text translated by 20 students = 20 different translations - and the teacher deemed most of them valid.
To highlight some interesting differences between the languages:
- Anywhere you've seen a translator use cuss words like "fuck you", "asshole", or "bitch" was the translator adding their own flair, since Japanese curse words are just more impolite forms of the word "you" (kimi, omae, temei, kisama).
- Some words seem like they have a direct translation, (breakfast = "asagohan"). But from a Japanese perspective, asagohan has a strong connotation with a specific type of breakfast (rice, fish, miso soup). You wouldn't call cereal and milk "asagohan".
- Relationships are codified in how Japanese refer to each other. For example, if you had a big brother, you referred to him as "onii-chan" (big brother). Anyone observing you two talk would understand that you two were siblings. It's not common to call your sibling "big brother" in English, you would more often call them by name (like "Mike"). In English, you could say someone is your brother and not specify if they were older or younger. In Japanese, you would call them "onii-chan" (big brother) or "otouto" (little brother) - the non-specific "kyoudai" is less commonly used.
GOOD - You've got a lens, Nowa? (fine)
GOOD - There, did you see the glint? (fine)
GOOD - Got him! (fine)
MAYBE - "Well, ladies and gentlemen, so do I"
MAYBE - "Rub-a-dub-dub, don't be a flub"
The above two lines may be justifiable in the context of giving Lian more character. For example, how would you adapt a Kansai or Osakan dialect? Often translators make them sound southern.
BAD - "Chud"
BAD - "You sure it's a he?"
The above two lines are absolutely inexcusable, however. And that's where my benefit of the doubt ends.
Game is going on my shit list.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yeah, translating is hard and often requires quite a lot of creativity in the localised version to make sure the context and the spirit of the text is delivered. In some cases you need to rewrite it to find something in the target language and culture (you may translate some material differently between UK and American English for example or between English and Italian) because there is no direct match between the two languages (how the heck do you do a simple direct translation of Month Python’s Cheese Shop sketch without a tad bit of creative writing on the translator’s end? This is not the worst scenario either).
Problem is that not all translators are good writers.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Almost always Japanese dialogs are very straight forward, they just say what they want to say directly. If you see slangs, "clever one liners", etc, bet your ass it's the localization team thinking they know better than actual game creators and the actual audience
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Pallas
Member
I love the Ace Attorney serious but good lord, it was kind of awkward playing it sometimes when the game is very obviously set in Japan yet it’s not in the localized version?yikes.
Also, translation sucks but I’m still playing it. As a backer, I’ve been pretty hyped for this game for a looooong time and so far it hasn’t disappointed. Also Suikoden players will know how awful translations were back in the day with those games, minus the political identity nonsense. Won’t let it ruin my enjoyment.
Last edited:
sigmaZ
Member
I mean it can cut both ways. The Japanese can be completely dry and boring and the translation can have more character or the Japanese can have lots of character, but the translation is dry and boring. A lot of old school RPGs had to contend with technical limitations as well. If it's goofy non-Japanese cultural references, that's almost always gonna be the translation company.
Radical Dreamer
Member
Sigh why it always feels like left leaning non binary reddit moderator is translating this...
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I’m just wondering to myself, how much would I hate this insufferable bunch of douchebags if I understood and played in Japanese? Would it be 80% as much as I do having played in English?
I’m sure I will ponder this frequently whenever I’m sitting on the can.