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[Mibu no ookami]

I fully expect that every project at this point under Embracer that isn't assuredly profitable or can at least break even will be canceled.

In April of 2021, Embracer's stock was worth 130 SEK.

Since then a few things have happened:

• Their stock has plummeted to 19.67 SEK... That's an 85 percent decrease in value
• In that same time period, the Swedish krona has fallen from 0.12 dollars to 0.092 dollars. To put in other terms 1 dollar used to buy about 9 krona and now it buys nearly 11.

The reason they're laying off staff is because they need to upright their profitability so that they don't have to close studios. Why are they closing studios instead of selling them? Because no one wants to buy them.

The COO leaving is just a precursor for their almost immediate future. People gave Square Enix shit for selling Crystal Dynamics and Eidos for 300 million, but they got out while the going was good.

People ignore that Square Enix bought Eidos for 130 million dollars and that included Crystal Dynamics. They sold for nearly 2.5x the value and Embracer almost certainly overpaid for them. Not sure why people thought these two studios were worth a billion dollars in the first place. We'll see how much Embracer can sell either studio for if they can at all, but I fully expect to see a fire sale across the board to put money into any projects that are viable.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

I fully believe they expected some of their recent games to be larger, and then the 2b from Saudis to keep them afloat. When that game tanked, which probably tanked the Saudi deal, it was their doom. Over extended, and bought too many companies too fast.

I have seen this before in other sectors. KIT Digital in the online video space. Sometimes its done as a pump and dump scenerio where they dont plan on any integration, just inflating their portfolio. Was probably looking at MS to buy them out for Gamepass style games, which could have worked, but there are just too many developers and teams to properly manage.

 

[YuLY]

I fully expect Deus Ex new to be dead in the water unless Eidos is bought by a bigger publisher together with the IP. So currently only care about Space Marine 2 and Tempest Rising from Embracer. And both seem close to release so I think they are safe.

 

[midnightAI]

Don't we know this already? That's why everyone was saying Microsoft should buy up loads of their Studios/IPs (why it's always MS that should do this is beyond me but it's rare you see Sony should buy X studio even though on the face of it Tomb Raider would be the perfect fit for Sony not MS)

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Hopefully Tencent doesn't eat them up or something like that.

 

[shubik]

I just hope that SONY can gobble up some of the ips....

On a side note: I was about to drop some bigger sums into Embracers stock last year. Im very happy I decided against it...

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I don't think most here care. We saw them gobble up smaller studios that ranged from mediocre to mid-high level tier, but I have thought all along that these acquisitions were more for the IP than for the studios, especially in the long run.

 

[ungalo]

let's pray for Warhorse Studios

 

[rodrigolfp]

MS, save them!!!

 

[shubik]

MS, save them!!!

Because Microsoft is so good at handling studios and IPs?

 

[skit_data]

I listened to a podcast the other day where they interviewed people involved in Embracers video game preservation project. I had no idea about that stuff and while that being a pretty good initiative I honestly don't think they should have gone into publishing because its clearly not working out at all.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Because Microsoft is so good at handling studios and IPs?

Because they can buy easily and can be good at handling the studios.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[KWAB]

Embracer Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When the majority of your studios doesn't even have a Wikipedia page you know that you bought just a bunch of random shit.

 

[StueyDuck]

They never really lived though let's be honest.

Aside from a couple remakes and cash in sequels they never really did much as a publisher than buy IP.

I wonder if anyone else could learn a lesson from that

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I fully expect Deus Ex new to be dead in the water unless Eidos is bought by a bigger publisher together with the IP. So currently only care about Space Marine 2 and Tempest Rising from Embracer. And both seem close to release so I think they are safe.

IP costs too much to buy. Maybe if you get a firesale deal it makes sense, but there is more return in creating your own IP. People keep asking for a return of Soul Reaver, but how much is the Soul Reaver franchise actually worth now? Maybe with a competent developer, it could be worth something, but what developer, and do they already have something they're working on?

For Legacy of Kain, you basically need a transmedia blitz to pump value into it. Same with Deus Ex. That takes time and money.

Don't we know this already? That's why everyone was saying Microsoft should buy up loads of their Studios/IPs (why it's always MS that should do this is beyond me but it's rare you see Sony should buy X studio even though on the face of it Tomb Raider would be the perfect fit for Sony not MS)

Does Tomb Raider make much sense to Sony when they already have Uncharted? I think it makes way more sense for Microsoft. Kind of a no-brainer. Maybe it would make sense to have Crystal Dynamics take over Uncharted with the supervision and guidance of Naughty Dog, but not sure Tomb Raider helps them in any way.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Embracer has a lot of studios, but most of them are irrelevant.

Though I guess it will own all the IPs of those closed studios, which can be valuable in itself.

 

[Elios83]

Quite frankly I think Embracer just wanted to get their hands into different things hoping they would sustain and generate profits by themselves just to resell them at the right time to cash on them.
Unfortunately they're discovering that without a clear strategy these studios are generating losses and they're panicking closing them.

 

[Tsaki]

Does Tomb Raider make much sense to Sony when they already have Uncharted? I think it makes way more sense for Microsoft. Kind of a no-brainer. Maybe it would make sense to have Crystal Dynamics take over Uncharted with the supervision and guidance of Naughty Dog, but not sure Tomb Raider helps them in any way.

Yes because only Naughty Dog can do Uncharted and ND will not do UC at the close to medium future. Crystal Dynamics could fill the gap with Lara Croft.
But Sony won't buy them since they are expensive to maintain and not 100% sure that are capable of creating a hit game to justify it.

 

[ungalo]

Did Remnant 2 succeed ? It seems Dead Island did well.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

IP costs too much to buy. Maybe if you get a firesale deal it makes sense, but there is more return in creating your own IP. People keep asking for a return of Soul Reaver, but how much is the Soul Reaver franchise actually worth now? Maybe with a competent developer, it could be worth something, but what developer, and do they already have something they're working on?

For Legacy of Kain, you basically need a transmedia blitz to pump value into it. Same with Deus Ex. That takes time and money.


Does Tomb Raider make much sense to Sony when they already have Uncharted? I think it makes way more sense for Microsoft. Kind of a no-brainer. Maybe it would make sense to have Crystal Dynamics take over Uncharted with the supervision and guidance of Naughty Dog, but not sure Tomb Raider helps them in any way.

My sentiments exactly.

Some shit might even be better left for dead, to allow for novel takes on old concepts.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yes because only Naughty Dog can do Uncharted and ND will not do UC at the close to medium future. Crystal Dynamics could fill the gap with Lara Croft.
But Sony won't buy them since they are expensive to maintain and not 100% sure that are capable of creating a hit game to justify it.

Bend Studios did the Vita Uncharted game with guidance from Naughty Dog. Not sure why Crystal Dynamics couldn't take over the franchise.

Tomb Raider is a dead and dying franchise. I wouldn't pump 200 million for a Tomb Raider game today, so not sure what gap it's going to fill. Not to mention the next game is under contract with Amazon. You'd have to buy them out.

 

[Gaiff]

I just hope that SONY can gobble up some of the ips....

On a side note: I was about to drop some bigger sums into Embracers stock last year. Im very happy I decided against it...

How about neither Sony or Microsoft gets these ips but another third-party does so these games continue being multplatform?

 

[Zathalus]

Please let Titan Quest 2 hang in there.

 

[shubik]

How about neither Sony or Microsoft gets these ips but another third-party does so these games continue being multplatform?

What third party is this supposed to be? The market is consolidating. This process is by far not over. I would rather see games like Deus Ex in the hands of someone like SONY.

 

[Dazraell]

I listened to a podcast the other day where they interviewed people involved in Embracers video game preservation project. I had no idea about that stuff and while that being a pretty good initiative I honestly don't think they should have gone into publishing because its clearly not working out at all.

This sounds interesting. Do you happen to have a link to this podcast on hand?

 

[DeepEnigma]

All part of the plan.

 

[Gaiff]

What third party is this supposed to be? The market is consolidating. This process is by far not over. I would rather see games like Deus Ex in the hands of someone like SONY.

Anyone else. Don't wanna see more exclusives and have to wait 2-3 years to play Deus Ex because Sony gobbled them up. Neither do I want to see the franchise being run to the ground because Microsoft acquired it.

 

[Needlecrash]

From an old heads perspective, seeing these bigger companies take over smaller ones is never a good idea. Ideas and innovations are shoved aside in favor of profit margins and portfolio acquisitions. We all see this a lot in video game companies.

EA is a notorious offender. Buying up studios and then closing them. These games had experiences you couldn't find anywhere else. They had some very unique titles from these studios and then, they got the axe. Personally, I wish Skitchin' would get a modern release but that ain't happening. A list of companies they've acquired and internal studios that wound up closing:

• Bullfrog (Developer of Syndicate)
• Pandemic Studios (Developer of Mercenaries)
• Danger Close (Was originally named Dreamworks Interactive, Developer of the original Medal of Honor games)
• EA Black Box (The OG developers of Need for Speed - Underground 1 & 2, Carbon, Most Wanted 2005) - THIS SHIT HURT. I'D KILL FOR MOST WANTED 2005
• Origin Entertainment (Developers of Ultima & Wing Commander)
• Visceral Games (Dante's Inferno, Battlefield: Hardline, Dead Space)
• Don't get me started on the American Mcgee Alice shit. They fucked over this man's legacy and his work and the IP.

I think Nintendo is one of the few companies that's made acquisitions and none of them have closed. Even when they bought out Hal Laboratory, as a subsidiary in the 90's to save them from bankruptcy when they created Metal Slater Glory that drove them into near financial ruin, they've been going strong and the series has been evolving while maintaining its original identity.

Then, I think of Crystal Dynamics. Known for Pandemonium!, Legacy of Kain, Gex, I see they got acquired but nothing else has happened since they were sold from Square Enix.

I feel that Embracer literally bought off more than they can chew. They've bought so much shit so fast it's pretty hard to keep. They've bought out Volition that closed; and now Free Radical is done. Check your portfolio before ya'll buy and burn shit to the ground.

 

[skit_data]

This sounds interesting. Do you happen to have a link to this podcast on hand?

It's a swedish podcast so sadly its only available in swedish but here goes:

Episoder | Kraftspelen

Vill du veta mer om rättighetskriget kring Tetris? Varför Super Mario Bros är tidernas mest inflytelserika spel? Vad Tom Cruise har med Doom att göra? Lyssna på Kraftspelen!

www.kraftspelen.com

There is some info on Embracers website about the project:

Embracer Games Archive - Embracer Group

embracer.com

Edit: I saw that the creator of the podcast had uploaded a video of their visit on youtube as well:


Edit: One thing I learned from the podcast was that a big part of their archive is actually from Lars Wingefors own personal collection. He must have been collecting a hell of a lot himself.

 

[Fredrik]

How about neither Sony or Microsoft gets these ips but another third-party does so these games continue being multplatform?

Exactly. Sony buying anything at this point is a nightmare scenario for me since they delay their 1st party PC releases and I game 95% on PC now.
Apple would be worse I guess. Or Meta.

 

[crackajack]

The group as a whole gives strong Crytek or Jowood vibes but on a much bigger scale. They will have to release a lot of small budget AA games alongside some AAA efforts or shrink and combine a lot of studios to not implode.
But gearbox, bugbear, 4A games and also the eidos stuff is hardly the stuff that should make them worry.
Square were idiots, any competent publisher should be able to make money back just with Lara croft alone and not always report disappointment, see IO, hitman too. Deus ex though, I don't know, could be as successful as cyberpunk with the right approach. Tanking those studios with avengers was a dumb idea and sank guardians alongside it. Embracer made a steal there, some of the other junk though will be a problem if they even when only aiming at lower end AAA with that plethora of studios.

 

[balls of snow]

Yeah. Im of the mind both Deus Ex and Tomb Raider are dead as doornails, gamewise.

 

[TVexperto]

people in here have no idea that embracer is one of the big publishers embracing video game archives..

Embracer Games Archive - Embracer Group

embracer.com

 

[Roman Empire]

Legacy of Kain Remake won't be this time guys. Hate to see it but Embracer's days are numbered.

 

[DaciaJC]

let's pray for Warhorse Studios

Indeed. I think Tripwire is also underneath Embracer now.

 

[HL3.exe]

Don't much care for Embracer, but this sounds completely fucked for Deus Ex, Thief, ect.

 

[Ronin_7]

Never chew more than you can handle.

 

[midnightAI]

Tomb Raider make much sense to Sony when they already have Uncharted? I think it makes way more sense for Microsoft. Kind of a no-brainer. Maybe it would make sense to have Crystal Dynamics take over Uncharted with the supervision and guidance of Naughty Dog, but not sure Tomb Raider helps them in any way.

Well, yes, you are thinking too narrowly, Sony are more than a games company, think about the entire IP not just the game part of it.

And how many third person narrative heavy Tomb Raider like games have MS made anyway? Sony have much more experience there with or without Crystal Dynamics.

 

[diffusionx]

Embracer was never alive, in that they had a good faith effort in place to become this massive game development and publishing holding company. They were just betting on acquiring as much IP as possible and hoping to flip to somebody else trying to grow fast. I know a lot has been made of the Saudi fund but realistically I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to dangle themselves in front of Microsoft.

 

[RoboFu]

Because Microsoft is so good at handling studios and IPs?

And you want Sony to buy them? Ask bungie how’s that’s going right now.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well, yes, you are thinking too narrowly, Sony are more than a games company, think about the entire IP not just the game part of it.

And how many third person narrative heavy Tomb Raider like games have MS made anyway? Sony have much more experience there with or without Crystal Dynamics.

I'm not thinking narrowly.

Tomb Raider movies aren't doing super well either and releasing a Tomb Raider movie in between Uncharted movies would be a mistake as well.

Because it's something that Microsoft lacks, it would be a good addition to their portfolio.

 

[GHG]

And you want Sony to buy them? Ask bungie how’s that’s going right now.

Who the fuck said anything about Sony buying them? Or anyone else for that matter?

The best solution would be for them to sort their shit out.

 

[RedC]

Well, yes, you are thinking too narrowly, Sony are more than a games company, think about the entire IP not just the game part of it.

And how many third person narrative heavy Tomb Raider like games have MS made anyway? Sony have much more experience there with or without Crystal Dynamics.

That's all the more reason, Microsoft is likely a better fit due to filling in their void of third person narrative heavy game.

 

[midnightAI]

I'm not thinking narrowly.

Tomb Raider movies aren't doing super well either and releasing a Tomb Raider movie in between Uncharted movies would be a mistake as well.

Because it's something that Microsoft lacks, it would be a good addition to their portfolio.

But to Sony the Tomb Raider IP could bring movies, TV series, games etc. it's still a strong IP.

Uncharted has nothing to do with it, we don't even know how many Uncharted films they will make and I'd argue as films/TV Tomb Raider is a stronger IP, or certainly could be if done right.

 

[Havoc2049]

Someone save Warhorse! Kingdom Come Deliverance was great and I would love a new RPG by them.

 

[Kataploom]

Goodbye Darksiders 4

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But to Sony the Tomb Raider IP could bring movies, TV series, games etc. it's still a strong IP.

Uncharted has nothing to do with it, we don't even know how many Uncharted films they will make and I'd argue as films/TV Tomb Raider is a stronger IP, or certainly could be if done right.

Any money Sony puts into Tomb Raider would be money they COULD HAVE put into Uncharted. To divide the money between the two makes little sense.

Uncharted has proven a stronger IP than Tomb Raider. Sony doesn't need Uncharted-Lite.

 

[GreenAlien]

Embracer will be fine. They had like 200 concurrent projects and 16 000 staff. so what if they have to cancel half of them to be able to finance the most promising projects.. They were increasingly profitable the last few years. As long as that doesn't change, everything will be alright..

 

[shubik]

And you want Sony to buy them? Ask bungie how’s that’s going right now.

So SONYS trackrecord of building successful IPs and handling multiple development studios over and over again is irrelevant in your opinion?