Well it's out there now. Ha ha.
I wonder what the bom of the ps3 now is.
They definitely sell it for a profit, and it was £135 during Christmas - probably gone up now at retail.
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[Eurogamer\DF] Orbis Unmasked: what to expect from the next-gen PlayStation.
- Thread starter Saty
- Start date
Well it's out there now. Ha ha.
I wonder what the bom of the ps3 now is.
They definitely sell it for a profit, and it was £135 during Christmas - probably gone up now at retail.
phosphor112
Banned
This is waiting for a lazy photoshop...
Lmao.
I am surprised it 2688 post to equate "special sauce" with jizz. That's the first thing that came to my mind. Reminded me of a scene from Harold and Kumar during a temporary stop at a burger joint en route white castle.
No offence to you, I know that you are just relaying information but your pal trolled you.
This sounds like a complete clusterfuck of a console.
3 separate RAM pools, ancient XDR for Cell (are they still making those?), and Cell that "accelerates" Steamroller? Not likely.
Wouldn't it be a decent amount less? That 25W figure comes from the entire APU thus including the GPU. Then again, I bet the Jaguar cores will probably be running at a higher frequency making it closer to 50W.
eso76
Member
I can see it working, and i can see it as a feature MS could market as genuinely exclusive.
Their own channel, their own social network, and a feature which (unlike a motion or touch controller cough) cannot just be copied and offered later as an add on to other consoles.
Not without severely impacting games performances, at least.
See above, i think the possibilities are endless and that's basically the only reason why i could justify half those resources reserved for the OS.
In a facebook and instagram world, i can just see a console manufacturer wanting to include something like that in their console. Not everyone will be interested in broadcasting their games and themselves live, but having capture/upload to your channel functionalities built in the OS ? Seems like a natural consequence at this point.
Horse Armour
Member
The steamroller option would destroy what's in these boxes.
Punkster_NY
Member
DM
Boss Man
Member
What do you mean Twitch is properly integrated? I'm not saying that you can't upload videos, I'm saying that having this type of thing integrated into a console's OS and done seamlessly (to Facebook, for instance) would carry a lot of traction. The point is that it wouldn't be 1% anymore (I'm sure it's a whole lot less for console players), it would be common. Then when high-schooler Trevor presses the button to upload his "awesome" COD video where something "random" happened all of his little friends see it on Facebook with a big Xbox logo.
I'm not sure what an 8 core jaguar would look like. I thought the other day, that Microsoft wanted a quad core jaguar, and were not happy with the target set, so then had too go for an 8 core simply to meet their goals.
Purely because I though it was obvious they were looking to go for a low power device - what with the leak of their plans that had Arm cpus. I thought they sought performance so they went with AMD 8 core jaguars.
Then again, part of me thinks, Sony downlocked steamroller to about 1.8, and then with all the talk about MS going for 8 cores, they sort of jumped on board in reaction to that.
ShadowRunner
Member
I suspect it would just piss people off like all other social media game integration.
May be a nice feature to have, but not something that you can sell an entire console on. Much like cross game chat IMO, for those that use it its awesome, for the other 90% of people its pointless.
May be a nice feature to have, but not something that you can sell an entire console on. Much like cross game chat IMO, for those that use it its awesome, for the other 90% of people its pointless.
Was this put there for Kinect?
Agent Ironside
Member
If you read through his entire post, you can tell he's not legit.
Damn I hope that won't get widespread use or I'm gonna have to start deleting a lot of my facebook friends. The whole 'oh look internet, I played a game and totally kicked ass at it' is one of the worst trends coming from this 'social integration'.
Glorified G
Member
The performance difference between Jaguar and SR at about the same frequency probably isn't that big, making it pretty much a waste of silicon. If the reported rumours of Sony also going for Jaguar are just rumours and they do end up with Steamroller, I have a feeling it'll be more likely running at the lower 3GHz range. If a Trinity APU, where the CPU runs at about 3.4GHz, manages to keep the TDP down to 65W (CPU + GPU of course), I'm sure an improved architecture like SR on 28nm can run at the same range or even higher and not consume too much power.
Your going to get that kind of fidelity and then some my friend.
Some of you guys are getting paranoid about the graphical leap. Its going to be massive; not that I have insider information or anything special but a hunch. This hunch comes from seeing tech demos developed for next-gen consoles that blow everything we've seen in the past year out of the ozone layer.
Yeah. Makes sense. The other thing is that Amd do cut down on features to save power erego this results in a drop in performance too. So those new Kabini chips compared to desktop parts would overall not do so well when you overclock, isn't that so?
To compensate they probably have to make these chips super duper efficient. Heck that has to be the mantra for all cpus and gpus going forward. Power is a bitch. :/
Still if you could somehow get Intel to design the cpu for you, you win hands down.
When they first implemented Facebook/Twitter onto Xbox you had the initial "Hey i'm posting from my Xbox!" And then, yea. No one wants to be the person spamming facebook and twitter with "Hey i just beat this level! This boss! I got this achievement!, Here's a pic of me jumping like an idiot on this Kinect raft minigame!, etc"
I'm sure someone will post as the exception.
And you would pay through the nose for each CPU. Just ask MS how well it went being on team intel.
PS4 will use jaguar because steamroller is not finished yet. It is looking like end of 2013 and that is way to late for a console launch in fall 2013. Hell sony kind of wins they can say well we tried and save a ton using 8 jaguars in 1/3 the die space. If the compute special sauce can handle physics I don't see the PS4 being CPU limited like the Wii U.
I'm filing it under 'possible'. I'll be honest, I preferred the simplicity of what's in the op. RAM/SOC and new controller.
And well, Giggsy, thinking about it, it's like your friend put two and two together, considering Sony bought back those fabs from Toshiba where they make Cell chips, and Toshiba televisions, so you know...
Anyways, welcome to GAF.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" Not saying his words are the truth but they're not impossible/implausible. Let's be honest here, sony engineers have never been ones for simplicity. The vita has actually been the first device to use relatively simple/well-known tech and from what i can tell so far, developers are so well acquainted with it they're struggling to find ways to squeeze extra juice out of it. That's the problem with known architecture, it doesn't force the devs to stretch themselves as much. You end up missing that "special sauce" - i have to laugh at the phrase - because the toolsets are all already there so you don't ever actually end up "coding to the metal"
The companion chip thing strikes me though especially since AMD has a partnership with ARM. All major ARM devices going forward appear to be focussing on this "big.LITTLE" companion chip model. A weaker CPU to keep the basics running and a more powerful one for the extra grunt. In terms of an actual home console that more powerful CPU (super companion ship) could actually be the "weaker" companion chip in the model since the TDP of it would be relatively low compared to the rest of the system. You also get the added functionality of the features built into that SOC
Maybe. Hopefully they're liasing closely with gaikai on the remote play implementation
They'll have gameOS background tasks - like you say, probably universal remote play among them - and then they'll have 'apps' ala Vita. And the OS CPU resources will timeslice between them. How much CPU they'll want might depend on how much CPU they want to give to Orbis apps vs Vita apps, if they're going to be treated differently. Or if they let you pull up more apps in the background than Vita does.
I've no idea what that will boil down to in terms of jaguars, just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they took two, especially if MS is.
Afaik, Jaguar cores aren't able to run at a relatively high frequency because of its short pipeline. Bulldozer and its derivatives have a long pipeline which is why they can easily do 4GHz.
Someone more knowledge about this is probably better at explaining this but from what I know a CPU with a shorter pipeline is able to do more per clock than a CPU with a longer one. This gets compensated if you crank up the frequency but we all know there's the TDP ceiling you need to take into account.
It's all about finding the right balance.
Well Sony devs just released one of the most cpu intensive games on the market in PS2.* Good luck porting guys.
Edit: That reminds me, I definitely read somewhere that this game takes advantage of four threads, and so the I7s that have more than four threads don't take advantage of the extra threads [I must be getting that mixed up I think]. Well supposedly it's unoptimised. Kind of like Far cry 3, and what Tom's hardware said about games now moving on from two to four cores optimisation wise...
edit: *Planetside 2
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Well Sony devs just released one of the most cpu intensive games on the market in PS2. Good luck porting guys.
Edit: That reminds me, I definitely read somewhere that this game takes advantage of four threads, and so the I7s that have more than four thread don't take advantage of the extra threads [I must be getting that mixed up I think]. Well supposedly it's unoptimised. Kind of like Far cry 3, and what Tom's hardware said about games now moving on from two to four cores...
Which game?
he meant PS3.
No he meant planetside 2
but its not one of the most cpu intensive games on the market..
i thought he meant PS3 because it's games are CPU heavy.
Who the hell just releases a ps2 game? lol.
And why would it be one of the most cpu intensive games on the market?
Graphics Horse
Member
If they could make a cell compatible chip for audio processing, video compressing for uploads and things it could be pretty nice. I wouldn't expect it to be directly programmable by PS4 games but it would be nice for emulation and take some strain off the cpu.
I could be completely mistaken but wasn't it ken's vision that the cell should become the companion chip of all future sony products
There barely is a parallel. That's like saying Android apps will be easy to port to Linux desktops because they both use the Linux kernel.
One huge thing that gets on my nerves is people claiming that it will be easy to port PS4/Orbis games to Linux PCs. That's extremely far from the truth. For some odd reason, people buy into that based on this strange assumption that retail developers use OpenGL on non-Microsoft consoles.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Well, after the Sandy Bridge did so much to destroy AMD, it is nice to see how they're doing so well as to basically take an entire console generation.
If it has 8 cores, that's pretty nice in a way because that means it will get more software developers on the "more cores" bandwagon. I remember for the longest time there was the mantra of "don't every buy more than 4 cores, because it is a complete waste unless you use the rare video editing application that puts them to use."
And the Thuban and Zambezi were in many ways laughed at for competing with Intel's fewer but better cores, with more, but weaker cores. But if companies have to start developing for as many as 8 cores, that will change the game entirely and make beyond 4 core processors far more of a logical purchasing choice.
Well, only if any of that carries over to the PC market. But it certainly could. I don't pretend to be an expert, but if a company was used to developing for 8 cores for consoles, I would tend to think they'd be more likely to do it for PCs.
If it has 8 cores, that's pretty nice in a way because that means it will get more software developers on the "more cores" bandwagon. I remember for the longest time there was the mantra of "don't every buy more than 4 cores, because it is a complete waste unless you use the rare video editing application that puts them to use."
And the Thuban and Zambezi were in many ways laughed at for competing with Intel's fewer but better cores, with more, but weaker cores. But if companies have to start developing for as many as 8 cores, that will change the game entirely and make beyond 4 core processors far more of a logical purchasing choice.
Well, only if any of that carries over to the PC market. But it certainly could. I don't pretend to be an expert, but if a company was used to developing for 8 cores for consoles, I would tend to think they'd be more likely to do it for PCs.
another point is - this is not a jaguar with 8 cores, this is 2 jaguars with 4 cores each, right?
So you basically want all the people who made the right decision in purchasing 4 core Sandy Bridges instead of AMD processors to get screwed over by consoles? Again?
I'd rather there be competition in the desktop space than an Intel monopoly.
In general, so would I. Personally, I'd be forced to upgrade again and that's bad news for me.
Plus, AMD is just not a robust enough company to compete with Intel. At best, the situation would just force Intel to make 8 core processors a standard. This would shake the market for the consumer while still keeping Intel on top. AMD is going to diminish.
to put things in perspective, jaguar is supposedly 10% faster than bobcat - from 1.7 to 1.9ghz. the fastest bobcat processor is the e2-1800. a dual core chip which reaches a passmark (CPU benchtest) score of 800ish. so let's be generous, assume a 1:1 power
erformance scale (unlikely) and give it a passmark of 900 x 4 to represent an octocore jaguar: that's 3600, pretty good right? well roll back to 2011 and the release of the sandy bridge CPUs, most gamers settled for the i5 2500k, a quad core mid-high enthusiast chip which came in a little shy of $200. at 3.3ghz these things can reach a passmark of 6444 - on top of which they are amazing overclockers, with a 25% increase in performance easily attainable by just changing a number
in pure number crunching terms, you shouldn't need more than half the cores on a two year old mid-high end processor to do what you can do on an octocore jaguar.
of course, this isn't quite how things always work out and there are always efficiencies to be gained from proper threading, but i wouldn't expect the jaguar to light a fire under your desire for further exploration of how to best utilise a PC CPUs for gaming.
Curiosly, people are talking of uncertainty about the spec and some individuals are asking others to wait till final specs are revealed before drawing any conclusion. However, at the same time, most people seem confident about permanence of the current specs. So, all in all, what are the odds that Jaguar cores and 4GB GDDR5 will constitute as the head and artery/vein of PS4?
I know what you mean. I played it for the first time, very recently on the 360 and it was plagued with glitches and a few freezes.
Also, it's such a shame that so many people (here and elsewhere) are sceptical about Bioware's ability to weave a good tale. It has been a far fall from grace for Bioware since the release of ME3. The good thing is, iirc, Obsidian recently said in an interview that they'd love the opportunity to work on KoTOR3. So hand them a good engine (because Obsidian can't improve graphical fidelity as they had proven with Fallout NV) and let them do the rest. I hope Disney won't be fools to kill off the franchise.
Remember I'm talking of non linear and very open world games (well, KoTOR isn't totally open world). I have my doubts but remain optimistic.
Perhaps one of Sony's first party will finally do a WRPG and would wow us with presentation and exceed what is to be expected from an open world game. It's good to dream, lol.
I know what you mean. I played it for the first time, very recently on the 360 and it was plagued with glitches and a few freezes.
Also, it's such a shame that so many people (here and elsewhere) are sceptical about Bioware's ability to weave a good tale. It has been a far fall from grace for Bioware since the release of ME3. The good thing is, iirc, Obsidian recently said in an interview that they'd love the opportunity to work on KoTOR3. So hand them a good engine (because Obsidian can't improve graphical fidelity as they had proven with Fallout NV) and let them do the rest. I hope Disney won't be fools to kill off the franchise.
Remember I'm talking of non linear and very open world games (well, KoTOR isn't totally open world). I have my doubts but remain optimistic.
Perhaps one of Sony's first party will finally do a WRPG and would wow us with presentation and exceed what is to be expected from an open world game. It's good to dream, lol.
How would they get screwed over? Right now games are starting to use four cores. Intel's top chip would cover that base and then some. Right now the cpus are under utilised or not optimised for.
Heck Intel is so far ahead, they deliberately don't sell an 8 core, with two cores disabled. The moment Amd fights back all they would have to do is to reenable those cores.
Vol5
Member
Can we really discount the Cell in PS4 after the cost and time it took to bring to market? To abandon such an expensive design and manufacturing effort would seem at odds with Sony attempting to cut costs.
Why not use your own proven technology at a low(er) price for specialized tasks instead outsourcing / R&Ding it all over again at high prices. Makes sound business sense to me....but then Sony don't always make sound business decisions.
Why not use your own proven technology at a low(er) price for specialized tasks instead outsourcing / R&Ding it all over again at high prices. Makes sound business sense to me....but then Sony don't always make sound business decisions.
Developers had a much larger say in what they wanted in the next consoles. And I imagined a lot of them said that if they had to develop for a familiar homogeneous architecture versus an esoteric heterogeneous architecture, they'll always pick the former. It really doesn't matter how much money Sony put into Cell if developers will end up relegating it to 2nd-tier status for development.