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Famitsu Sales: Week 27, 2023 (Jun 26 -Jul 02)

Masterri

Member
I agree with almost everything you say apart from "majority-portable market". As I mention below, PS5 is currently selling hardware faster than PSP or Vita did in their third year. Japan didn't go to portables because they could be played on the go, they went because that's where the biggest games were. That's why I say software is a bigger problem for Sony than hardware.

The PS brand itself is doing pretty well, it just needs more appealing games more regularly.

I thought Rain Code would do 32k, so its way better than what I thought.

It wasn't like people in Japan just stopped playing games on TVs, they just went to the devices with the most appealing software.

Elden Ring did over 1 million Japan including digital, and Dragon Quest 11 S (Switch) did over 900,000 just physical (so probably over 1 million with digital).

The mobile phone market isn't really impacting the console market in any meaningful way, its a separate thing. Portability does indeed help Switch hardware sales, but its ability to play games on a TV screen also massively helps its hardware sales.

Hardware-wise, PS5 is doing better than the PS3 and PS4 did in their third year, but its also doing better than PSP and Vita. Which would wouldn't happen if "Japan = mobile/ portable". Meanwhile software wise, PS5 is probably doing worse than those 4 platforms.
Software is a direct consequence of hardware.
It MC/Famitsu charts feature only Switch games it's because of:
1) not enough appealing PS5 titles;
2) very few consoles on Japanese soil, while the rest is scalped elsewhere.
This is literally it.
Those who claim sales are low because Japanese gamers play exclusively Apex and Genshin or PS4 games they already own are high as a kite on copium.
 

noshten

Member
Yep turns out everything Bloomberg said in November outside of yields is proven correct thus far,

More recently this is one of the things that caught my attention in their article from 8 days ago.


We know which major Japanese publishers are working on PlayStation 5 exclusive games, Square & Bandai.
I think Final Fantasy is the most likely game referenced, the franchise barely manages 1 million in Japan on the PlayStation 4 with a far bigger audience compared to what we can expect for the PlayStation 5 at the end of 2021. Compared to the PS1/PS2 days when the franchise was selling 3-4 million copies per entry - it's still problematic for Square if the game ends up declining even further into 500K to 750K territory.

Final Fantasy VII Remake - 702.853 / 932.821
PS4 Hardware at Launch - 9.016.923

Final Fantasy XV - 716.649 / 1.042.951
PS4 Hardware at Launch - 3.640.602

Final Fantasy XII - 1.516.532 / 1.967.887
PS3 Hardware at Launch - 4.276.480

Final Fantasy XIII-2 - 605.660 / 940.269
PS3 Hardware at Launch - 7.493.243

Most recent Final Fantasy games launched with far bigger audiences to sell to, in 2021 there is very little chance that the PS5 will surpass 1.25 million in Japan even with a late December release. Personally looking at the price, size and line-up for the PS5 I honestly struggle to see how it even surpasses 1 million in 2021.

It's a risk but strapping on a PS4 version while Sony is discontinuing PS4.. isn't going to help either - but it is what it is. Final Fantasy will basically become a lower profile franchise than Square's DQ spinoffs in Japan.

All that's left is Dragon Quest Monster 3 to outsell FFXVI this year, but yeah could have seen this coming years ago when exclusivity was announced.

I guess Square should enjoy the fact that they still have one franchise in the big leagues in Japan
 
Do we actually have data for that, or is this a guesstimate?

Source for all these figures?

Bros they're right there in the post hyperlinked to "source". And I trust VG Sales a lot more than I trust VG Chartz, but they could be off a bit here and there.

Anyway, they have their sources at the bottom of the page IIRC, so you can look from there.

Europe like their RPGs and FF16 is not.

How much have Persona 5 and SMT5 sold in Europe?
 

Madflavor

Member
Bros they're right there in the post hyperlinked to "source". And I trust VG Sales a lot more than I trust VG Chartz, but they could be off a bit here and there.

Anyway, they have their sources at the bottom of the page IIRC, so you can look from there.

I can't really make heads or tails of the sources they use on that wiki page. These are the sources they're citing:

Unless I'm missing something, I don't know how these sources got them to arrive to that 9.2 million figure. I mean it's certainly plausible for FFVII:R to climb up an additional 4.2 million sales since August 2020 with the PC and PS5 release. I guess I was just looking for something more concrete.
 
I agree with almost everything you say apart from "majority-portable market". As I mention below, PS5 is currently selling hardware faster than PSP or Vita did in their third year. Japan didn't go to portables because they could be played on the go, they went because that's where the biggest games were. That's why I say software is a bigger problem for Sony than hardware.

Okay then, between the two yes software appealing to that market in particular (while still being globally appealing, which can be tricky to accomplish) is the bigger problem. However, I still think lack of a portable option will always act as a suppressor to total sales of hardware and software the longer it isn't a thing

The PS brand itself is doing pretty well, it just needs more appealing games more regularly.

Agreed. FWIW, I think games like XVI and (to a lesser extent) SF6 are a pretty good start for the Japanese market.

A PS5 portable is just not feasible. As in the cooling and power consumption is just not there. Not even on 3nm. Or even 2nm.

I suppose you can make it a lower spec, but then you run into the Series S problem.

Maybe something with an eGPU could be done, but that would require another die, seperate cooling and PSU, and likely drive costs up significantly.

I think a "portable" in the form of something more laptop-sized could work, or at least like a slightly larger tablet. And true that a processor-boosting dock would require higher prices, but there would be a market for it regardless if the price is higher than a regular PS5 model, as long as portability is something it does very well.

It would have to be digital-only though.

What? No, Elden Ring can't be called a JRPG. The term "JRPG" has been around for ages and refers to a video game genre. If anything, I've noticed some really dumb opinions of what a JRPG is over the last few years.
I think it's because some of the people misusing the term "JRPG" are too young to remember a time when the term "JRPG" was used synonymously with "turn-based-role-playing-game". They get confused by "Japanese Role Playing Game" and assume that any game that isn't even an RPG but merely features "RPG elements" developed in Japan could be labeled a "JRPG".

Well, that's one take. But the truth is a lot of JRPG IPs over the past years have moved away from purely turn-based battle systems. In fact that was happening even sooner, going back to even PS2 gen in some cases.

I think there are a lot of Japanese RPGs that still have many of the elements of turn-based JRPGs, and they're still mostly made in Japan, so even if they have a lot of real-time battle mechanics I don't think that should disbar them from being considered JRPGs.
 
Well, that's one take. But the truth is a lot of JRPG IPs over the past years have moved away from purely turn-based battle systems. In fact that was happening even sooner, going back to even PS2 gen in some cases.

I think there are a lot of Japanese RPGs that still have many of the elements of turn-based JRPGs, and they're still mostly made in Japan, so even if they have a lot of real-time battle mechanics I don't think that should disbar them from being considered JRPGs.
I agree that I don't think it should strictly be "turn based" as a qualifier, but at the same time there is no way would I ever call Elden Ring a "JRPG". The term has become used for so much as a blanket these days it seems like.
 

Woopah

Member
Software is a direct consequence of hardware.
It MC/Famitsu charts feature only Switch games it's because of:
1) not enough appealing PS5 titles;
2) very few consoles on Japanese soil, while the rest is scalped elsewhere.
This is literally it.
Those who claim sales are low because Japanese gamers play exclusively Apex and Genshin or PS4 games they already own are high as a kite on copium.
I still think that the majority of those PS5s are in Japan, and people have to be doing something with them.
Okay then, between the two yes software appealing to that market in particular (while still being globally appealing, which can be tricky to accomplish) is the bigger problem. However, I still think lack of a portable option will always act as a suppressor to total sales of hardware and software the longer it isn't a thing



Agreed. FWIW, I think games like XVI and (to a lesser extent) SF6 are a pretty good start for the Japanese market.



I think a "portable" in the form of something more laptop-sized could work, or at least like a slightly larger tablet. And true that a processor-boosting dock would require higher prices, but there would be a market for it regardless if the price is higher than a regular PS5 model, as long as portability is something it does very well.

It would have to be digital-only though.



Well, that's one take. But the truth is a lot of JRPG IPs over the past years have moved away from purely turn-based battle systems. In fact that was happening even sooner, going back to even PS2 gen in some cases.

I think there are a lot of Japanese RPGs that still have many of the elements of turn-based JRPGs, and they're still mostly made in Japan, so even if they have a lot of real-time battle mechanics I don't think that should disbar them from being considered JRPGs.
Lack of portability is definitely a suppressor, but lack of ability to connect to a TV is a suppressor too.
 
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drganon

Member
Software is a direct consequence of hardware.
It MC/Famitsu charts feature only Switch games it's because of:
1) not enough appealing PS5 titles;
2) very few consoles on Japanese soil, while the rest is scalped elsewhere.
This is literally it.
Those who claim sales are low because Japanese gamers play exclusively Apex and Genshin or PS4 games they already own are high as a kite on copium.
Whatever you say there, nautilus.
 

Masterri

Member
Anyway, it's remarkable how digital grew in Japan in such a short span on time.
On PS5 it must account for at least at 95% of all sales.
 

noshten

Member
Up until this year scalpers & PS5s being exported was definitely a big factor

In 2021 the average number of PS5 sold per week was just under 19K, while in 2022 it was 22K, normal consumers don't have the patience to go to lotteries or use bots in order to secure a console at normal price - hence its the ones making Y10,000 profit or more on every PS5 that were doing it. Managing to secure 10 PS5 a week that's $700 profit minimum

With the World Wide shortages and demand for PS5s it meant that second hand price was out of control with PS5s being a lucrative item to resell, in some places you would need $1000+ to buy PS5 - that's more than double the retail price in Japan

There have been multiple reports, anecdotes or comments by analysts during the shortage.





"Frustration around Sony’s limited inventory is growing among game makers as well as fans of the console. One top Japanese game publisher has found players who used to buy PS version of its games are now gradually shifting to purchasing the PC edition"

By the end of 2022 sales were 2.37M of which I would guess that a not small percentage ended up outside of Japan, simply because of the small number of sales per week making it nearly impossible for normal Japanese people to purchase one at a regular price.

This year supply across the World has improved in a major way making the reselling of PS5 not as lucrative, meaning that launch demand is finally being satisfied as Japanese audience is finally able to easily purchase a PS5 whenever they want it, at retail price or even cheaper second hand.

My educated guess is that the realistic number of PS5 owners in Japan is likely around 1.5M to 2M - this would line up with the fact FFXVI is 50% down while actual hardware sales are very similar to PS4 during FFXV launch

The issue is that in the past three years much of the PS4 audience has transitioned to other platforms like Switch and PC. Even some of those purchasing a PS5 are likely getting it as a secondary console in Japan as its basically a very small niche nowadays that's surpassed by PC market

FFXVI was the high point for software on the PS5 ecosystem this year and it couldn't even help hardware hit 100K - there is no title that is going to launch with over 200K physical sales for the rest of 2023 and I don't expect things to improve next year especially if a successor to the Switch is launching

PS4 had the benefit of competing against one of Nintendo's greatest flops the Wii U and a 3DS that was on the way out.
It had basically every single Japanese Third Party launching games on it and trying to push it as much as they can, many of them as exclusives in Japan(lacking Switch version), most of their investments & marketing were focused on the PS4, as Sony had sold them on the idea that Japanese market was in a terminal condition, they needed to also consolidate on PS4 and leave behind Vita since their portable line was being phased out. And perhaps the most troubling idea was that Japanese Third Parties had to look to the West and compete with AAA Western publishers in terms of dev/marketing budgets in order to continue their growth. Sony would ofcourse push any AAA Japanese exclusive and help with the marketing but it left AA publishers behind.

PS5 is in an entirely new situation where first three years were basically wasted - very little compelling software was released exclusively on the system and now it's likely going to be facing off a Switch successor that's going to continue winning over Sony's traditional partners. Switch already managed to get 90% of AA publishers to either go multiplat or exclusive on it's platform - now the successor needs to address the big boys that have been squarely in Sony's corner. Currently choosing PS5 exclusivity is basically giving up on any decent sales in Japan and sooner or later AAA budgets and marketing will sink someone and rest of the market will react.
 
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Masterri

Member
Up until this year scalpers & PS5s being exported was definitely a big factor

In 2021 the average number of PS5 sold per week was just under 19K, while in 2022 it was 22K, normal consumers don't have the patience to go to lotteries or use bots in order to secure a console at normal price - hence its the ones making Y10,000 profit or more on every PS5 that were doing it. Managing to secure 10 PS5 a week that's $700 profit minimum

With the World Wide shortages and demand for PS5s it meant that second hand price was out of control with PS5s being a lucrative item to resell, in some places you would need $1000+ to buy PS5 - that's more than double the retail price in Japan

There have been multiple reports, anecdotes or comments by analysts during the shortage.







By the end of 2022 sales were 2.37M of which I would guess that a not small percentage ended up outside of Japan, simply because of the small number of sales per week making it nearly impossible for normal Japanese people to purchase one at a regular price.

This year supply across the World has improved in a major way making the reselling of PS5 not as lucrative, meaning that launch demand is finally being satisfied as Japanese audience is finally able to easily purchase a PS5 whenever they want it, at retail price or even cheaper second hand.

My educated guess is that the realistic number of PS5 owners in Japan is likely around 1.5M to 2M - this would line up with the fact FFXVI is 50% down while actual hardware sales are very similar to PS4 during FFXV launch

The issue is that in the past three years much of the PS4 audience has transitioned to other platforms like Switch and PC. Even some of those purchasing a PS5 are likely getting it as a secondary console in Japan as its basically a very small niche nowadays that's surpassed by PC market

FFXVI was the high point for software on the PS5 ecosystem this year and it couldn't even help hardware hit 100K - there is no title that is going to launch with over 200K physical sales for the rest of 2023 and I don't expect things to improve next year especially if a successor to the Switch is launching

PS4 had the benefit of competing against one of Nintendo's greatest flops the Wii U and a 3DS that was on the way out.
It had basically every single Japanese Third Party launching games on it and trying to push it as much as they can, many of them as exclusives in Japan(lacking Switch version), most of their investments & marketing were focused on the PS4, as Sony had sold them on the idea that Japanese market was in a terminal condition, they needed to also consolidate on PS4 and leave behind Vita since their portable line was being phased out. And perhaps the most troubling idea was that Japanese Third Parties had to look to the West and compete with AAA Western publishers in terms of dev/marketing budgets in order to continue their growth. Sony would ofcourse push any AAA Japanese exclusive and help with the marketing but it left AA publishers behind.

PS5 is in an entirely new situation where first three years were basically wasted - very little compelling software was released exclusively on the system and now it's likely going to be facing off a Switch successor that's going to continue winning over Sony's traditional partners. Switch already managed to get 90% of AA publishers to either go multiplat or exclusive on it's platform - now the successor needs to address the big boys that have been squarely in Sony's corner. Currently choosing PS5 exclusivity is basically giving up on any decent sales in Japan and sooner or later AAA budgets and marketing will sink someone and rest of the market will react.

They hated Him because he told them the truth.
Oh well, as long as Sony makes money fanboys will be happy.
Also, who the fuck is nautilus?
 

TLZ

Banned
Up until this year scalpers & PS5s being exported was definitely a big factor

In 2021 the average number of PS5 sold per week was just under 19K, while in 2022 it was 22K, normal consumers don't have the patience to go to lotteries or use bots in order to secure a console at normal price - hence its the ones making Y10,000 profit or more on every PS5 that were doing it. Managing to secure 10 PS5 a week that's $700 profit minimum

With the World Wide shortages and demand for PS5s it meant that second hand price was out of control with PS5s being a lucrative item to resell, in some places you would need $1000+ to buy PS5 - that's more than double the retail price in Japan

There have been multiple reports, anecdotes or comments by analysts during the shortage.







By the end of 2022 sales were 2.37M of which I would guess that a not small percentage ended up outside of Japan, simply because of the small number of sales per week making it nearly impossible for normal Japanese people to purchase one at a regular price.

This year supply across the World has improved in a major way making the reselling of PS5 not as lucrative, meaning that launch demand is finally being satisfied as Japanese audience is finally able to easily purchase a PS5 whenever they want it, at retail price or even cheaper second hand.

My educated guess is that the realistic number of PS5 owners in Japan is likely around 1.5M to 2M - this would line up with the fact FFXVI is 50% down while actual hardware sales are very similar to PS4 during FFXV launch

The issue is that in the past three years much of the PS4 audience has transitioned to other platforms like Switch and PC. Even some of those purchasing a PS5 are likely getting it as a secondary console in Japan as its basically a very small niche nowadays that's surpassed by PC market

FFXVI was the high point for software on the PS5 ecosystem this year and it couldn't even help hardware hit 100K - there is no title that is going to launch with over 200K physical sales for the rest of 2023 and I don't expect things to improve next year especially if a successor to the Switch is launching

PS4 had the benefit of competing against one of Nintendo's greatest flops the Wii U and a 3DS that was on the way out.
It had basically every single Japanese Third Party launching games on it and trying to push it as much as they can, many of them as exclusives in Japan(lacking Switch version), most of their investments & marketing were focused on the PS4, as Sony had sold them on the idea that Japanese market was in a terminal condition, they needed to also consolidate on PS4 and leave behind Vita since their portable line was being phased out. And perhaps the most troubling idea was that Japanese Third Parties had to look to the West and compete with AAA Western publishers in terms of dev/marketing budgets in order to continue their growth. Sony would ofcourse push any AAA Japanese exclusive and help with the marketing but it left AA publishers behind.

PS5 is in an entirely new situation where first three years were basically wasted - very little compelling software was released exclusively on the system and now it's likely going to be facing off a Switch successor that's going to continue winning over Sony's traditional partners. Switch already managed to get 90% of AA publishers to either go multiplat or exclusive on it's platform - now the successor needs to address the big boys that have been squarely in Sony's corner. Currently choosing PS5 exclusivity is basically giving up on any decent sales in Japan and sooner or later AAA budgets and marketing will sink someone and rest of the market will react.

Nautilus is that you?
 
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