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[XiaNaphryz]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-foie-gras-ban-lifted-20150108-story.html

A federal judge issued a ruling Wednesday that overturned California's law banning the sale of the fatty duck or goose liver, a delicacy prized by gourmands for its rich flavor.

The ruling at least briefly reverses what stood as a major victory for animal-welfare advocates trying to stop the common practice of force-feeding birds to enlarge their livers.

U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson ruled that the California ban was unconstitutional because it interfered with an existing federal law that regulates poultry products.

Many in the state's restaurant industry were rejoicing Wednesday shortly after the news was announced.

"I've been jumping up and down for about 90 minutes," said Napa Valley chef Ken Frank, who has been active in the pro-foie gras movement.

Foie gras from force-fed poultry was outlawed in California by a bill that passed the state Legislature in 2004 and went into effect in 2012.

The ban had been challenged in court by the Hot's Restaurant Group in California (which includes Hot's Cantina in Northridge, Four Daughters in Manhattan Beach and Hot's Kitchen in Hermosa Beach); Hudson Valley Foie Gras, a producer in New York; and a group of Canadian foie gras farmers called Association des Eleveurs de Canards et d'Oies du Quebec.

The plaintiffs argued that states can't interfere with federally approved poultry products because they're already covered by the Poultry Products Inspection Act. That law gives the federal government exclusive powers to determine what ingredients belong in poultry. The plaintiffs said it was therefore illegal for California to require foie gras to be made from birds that weren't force-fed.

"California cannot regulate foie gras products' ingredients by creatively phrasing its law in terms of the manner in which those ingredients were produced," Wilson wrote in his ruling.

Experts said the ruling would have no bearing on California's new egg law, which requires more space for laying hens, because eggs aren't covered by the Poultry Products Inspection Act.

A coalition of animal rights groups including the Animal Legal Defense Fund and the Humane Society released a joint statement vowing to appeal. "The state clearly has the right to ban the sale of the products of animal cruelty, and we expect the 9th Circuit will uphold this law, as it did in the previous round of litigation. We are asking the California Attorney General to file an immediate appeal."

A spokesman for the state attorney general's office said the ruling was under review.

Jonathan Lovvorn, chief counsel for the Humane Society of the United States, said he expects the ruling to be overturned, calling it "absurd on its face."

Lovvorn said force-feeding is not germane to the Poultry Products Inspection Act because it takes place long before birds reach a slaughterhouses where federal inspectors are stationed to enforce the law.

Guess I may have to look into making some reservations at a few places while its legal once again.

 

[xxracerxx]

Time to pour one in.

Image of goose getting force-fed.

edited the image to a link.

 

[Korey]

So what are the arguments for foie gras? Is force feeding ducks not a concern to people?

 

[entremet]

This means The French Laundry could start serving its amazing Torchon again.

 

[potam]

Time to pour one in.

I wish I had the mental fortitude to become a vegetarian

 

[lastplayed]

"I've been jumping up and down for about 90 minutes,"

Sounds exhausting.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

So what are the arguments for foie gras? Is force feeding ducks not a concern to people?

as opposed to what? slaughter of animals for eating?

I mean, really, if you're against foie gras, you should be against all meat based product because it's not like those other animals had it any easier.

i don't care because the animal is going to die regardless.

 

[Darklord]

Awful. It should be banned everywhere.

 

[davepoobond]

So what are the arguments for foie gras? Is force feeding ducks not a concern to people?

"It tastes good"

 

[Piecake]

So what are the arguments for foie gras? Is force feeding ducks not a concern to people?

The article states that it has really nothing to do with foie gras. It is all about state and federal power, and the fed has supreme authority over regulating poultry practices. The Cali legislation, apparently, impinged on that authority.

 

[Kieli]

as opposed to what? slaughter of animals for eating?

I mean, really, if you're against foie gras, you should be against all meat based product because it's not like those other animals had it any easier.

i don't care because the animal is going to die regardless.

Why does everything have to be binary. Why?

We're adults. We can rationalize and moralize in modular terms.

You don't need to be for or against for every goddamn aspect of some premise. Jesus.

 

[Mesoian]

So what are the arguments for foie gras? Is force feeding ducks not a concern to people?

It tastes good.

Though I never though it tasted THAT good.

 

[entremet]

as opposed to what? slaughter of animals for eating?

I mean, really, if you're against foie gras, you should be against all meat based product because it's not like those other animals had it any easier.

i don't care because the animal is going to die regardless.

Basically this. Unless you're a vegan/vegetarian, then you have point

 

[XiaNaphryz]

So what are the arguments for foie gras? Is force feeding ducks not a concern to people?

A good percentage of the meat gotten from animals are raised in conditions as bad or worse than the foie gras thing. Foie gras producers are an easier target than going after the guys raising cattle or pigs in those mass production conditions though.

Some claim gorging is not unethical because it's what the species bred specifically for foie gras are used to gorging:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/12/the-physiology-of-foie-why-foie-gras-is-not-u.html

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

as opposed to what? slaughter of animals for eating?

I mean, really, if you're against foie gras, you should be against all meat based product because it's not like those other animals had it any easier.

i don't care because the animal is going to die regardless.

I can understand where you're coming from, but many view it from the angle of torturing the animal as opposed to euthanasia for the sake of production. The liver fattening process is noted to be relatively painful when forced, and a chunk of those fighting against food production companies are simply asking for more humane methods of breeding, growing and storing the animals.

Which is, ultimately, the much larger fight to be fought.

 

[entremet]

A Spanish farmer apparently got similar results to conventional foie gras without force feeding.

I remember reading it in a food mag. Humane foie gras basically.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Why does everything have to be binary. Why?

We're adults. We can rationalize and moralize in modular terms.

You don't need to be for or against for every goddamn aspect of some premise. Jesus.

because it's hypocrisy to advocate one thing but to totally ignore the bigger picture?

it's like saying, "i'm against the maltreatment of these types of animals but I'm okay with the maltreatment of these other animals just because I like to eat these other animals"

 

[wenis]

This means The French Laundry could start serving its amazing Torchon again.

Oh boy don't you know it.

 

[Mesoian]

because it's hypocrisy to advocate one thing but to totally ignore the bigger picture?

it's like saying, "i'm against the maltreatment of these types of animals but I'm okay with the maltreatment of these other animals just because I like to eat these other animals"

Eh.

I think there's an argument for humane raising and butchering of animals.

But I also eat veal and know extremely little about how to properly slaughter and clean and animal, so I'm not going to argue to fiercely either way.

 

[The Tofunator]

because it's hypocrisy to advocate one thing but to totally ignore the bigger picture?

it's like saying, "i'm against the maltreatment of these types of animals but I'm okay with the maltreatment of these other animals just because I like to eat these other animals"

Just out of curiosity, are you against child labor?

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Eh.

I think there's an argument for humane raising and butchering of animals.

But I also eat veal and know extremely little about how to properly slaughter and clean and animal, so I'm not going to argue to fiercely either way.

sure, then argue it for all animals, instead of one. either save them all, or save none

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I can understand where you're coming from, but many view it from the angle of torturing the animal as opposed to euthanasia for the sake of production. The liver fattening process is noted to be relatively painful when forced, and a chunk of those fighting against food production companies are simply asking for more humane methods of breeding, growing and storing the animals.

Which is, ultimately, the much larger fight to be fought.

The article I linked to above claims the animals rarely feel any pain or stress during the process. I can't speak to its validity though.

 

[Man]

Having a french girlfriend who *loves* foie gras my experiences are:

A. It's disgusting. It tastes kinda sweet & expired.

B. Food made by torture is bad.

I politely ate it during the first year visiting my parents in-law but they caught on and serve alternatives now when I'm around. Not that I ever complained but they could tell that it was not to my taste.

 

[Kieli]

because it's hypocrisy to advocate one thing but to totally ignore the bigger picture?

it's like saying, "i'm against the maltreatment of these types of animals but I'm okay with the maltreatment of these other animals just because I like to eat these other animals"

I see where you're coming from. The word hypocrisy did flit through my mind as I wrote that post.

However, I see it as more of tackling a systemic and challenging problem (i.e. the big picture) one manageable aspect at a time. We're not going to prevent meat consumption and mass/inhumane production any time soon (if ever). But we can sure as heck win the smaller battles and work gradually to something more substantive.

As another poster wrote in this thread, it doesn't even necessarily have to be the complete ban on the production of foie gras. It's more to do with forcing the industry to find a more humane way to generate foie gras without force-feeding + fatty liver (very painful, if it's anything like human fatty liver disease).

As well, we shouldn't necessarily be accepting of inhumane foie gras production just because production of beef/pork/chicken is also inhumane. We should instead address be addressing the problem of inhuman meat consumption in general and how to improve it (in any way possible; every incremental step helps).

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Just out of curiosity, are you against child labor?

it depends on your definition of labor and child

if it's 12 year old working in dangerous factories: yes

if it's 12 year old working to feed large family while parents are disabled with no state help: not at all. work away young one.

 

[SenorArdilla]

So you can buy foie gras now. But is the ban on production of foie gras still in effect?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

uuuhhhh never had the stuff
So they force feed the goose so it inhales the food or something? wtf

We should also ban shark fin.

 

[Kieli]

sure, then argue it for all animals, instead of one. either save them all, or save none

I will fundamentally disagree with you on this point.

Analogies are inherently limiting, but I'll proceed with one anyway (because I know cancer has nothing to do with meat):

A certain type of cancer is incurable despite the vast amount of effort, time, and money that has been poured into it. Ergo, we don't bother with the research to find the cure for all types of cancer.

How the above applies to your conclusion is that saving all animals, for various reasons, is simply not attainable/realistic/practical. Should we therefore neglect the animals which we can help? No, I don't think we should.

 

[Alx]

I wish I had the mental fortitude to become a vegetarian

Poultry that is force fed the traditional way aren't having a bad time compared to most animals raised for food.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=txVkyzOWtYE

 

[The Tofunator]

it depends on your definition of labor and child

Let's say, below legal working age in all countries, being forced to work in dangerous and occasionally life threatening situations such as cobalt mining and factories that make things like cell phones and computer parts.

EDIT:

it depends on your definition of labor and child

if it's 12 year old working in dangerous factories: yes

if it's 12 year old working to feed large family while parents are disabled with no state help: not at all. work away young one.

So wait, how can you claim to be against child labor in factories, but utilize technology that would not have been possible without that child labor?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

As another poster wrote in this thread, it doesn't even necessarily have to be the complete ban on the production of foie gras. It's more to do with forcing the industry to find a more humane way to generate foie gras without force-feeding + fatty liver (very painful, if it's anything like human fatty liver disease).

There are conflicting opinions on this - some have found wild geese who eat so much they naturally end up with the same kind of liver found in force-fed geese. Their livers are pre-disposed to get really fatty from gorging in preparation for migration.

Here's a TED talk about raising humane foie gras:

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_parable

 

[Goldrush]

They can't ban it, but could they force a label on it?

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Let's say, below legal working age in all countries, being forced to work in dangerous and occasionally life threatening situations such as cobalt mining and factories that make things like cell phones and computer parts.

so then they're child slave, and not child labors?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

This means The French Laundry could start serving its amazing Torchon again.

Oh boy don't you know it.

My last two trips there was after the ban - the tasting menu's just not the same without that dish.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Ehhhhh.

Isn't this like shark fin soup?

no, because shark fin was actually killing sharks in the wild, thereby reducing their population to endangered. these geese are born and raise on farms. i don't think they're anywhere close to endangered

Let's say, below legal working age in all countries, being forced to work in dangerous and occasionally life threatening situations such as cobalt mining and factories that make things like cell phones and computer parts.

EDIT:

So wait, how can you claim to be against child labor in factories, but utilize technology that would not have been possible without that child labor?

do tell which technology uses child labor. and source it please

 

[entremet]

Ehhhhh.

Isn't this like shark fin soup?

Not at all.

This actually taste great when prepared with care.

Also duck and geese used here are livestock animals, not apex wild predators like sharks.

 

[The Tofunator]

no, because shark fin was actually killing sharks in the wild, thereby reducing their population to endangered. these geese are born and raise on farms. i don't think they're anywhere close to endangered



do tell which technology uses child labor. and source it please

Samsung devices

Apple devices

Rechargable batteries

 

[Jarmel]

Had some of this during Thanksgiving. Stuff is amazing.

 

[Korey]

as opposed to what? slaughter of animals for eating?

I mean, really, if you're against foie gras, you should be against all meat based product because it's not like those other animals had it any easier.

i don't care because the animal is going to die regardless.

I don't know. This comes really close to the argument where people were like "If I boycott Chik Fil A, then I'd have to boycott Nike and every other huge corporation cuz they do bad stuff too!"

You can pick your battles. Just because certain animals are treated horribly in the industry doesn't mean we should just allow all types of inhumane treatment of all animals to take place.

 

[entremet]

So suffering is okay as long as the animal isn't endangered / extinct?



Why does being an apex wild predator matter? (Why does tastiness matter?)

I mean, I don't think shark fin soup is okay.. it's barbaric and inhumane to the shark. I don't care about it being an apex predator or it being endangered, it's cruel and horrible.

If a wild goose naturally overeats, then by all means, eat it. But farming foie gras is... to me, anyway, like shark fin soup-ing.

Are you a vegetarian? If you eat meat all the animals you eat suffer and suffer pretty badly.

Sharks and apex predator are pretty essential for ecosystem balance. So yes, they're more important than farm animals that won't be going away anytime soon nor effect any wild ecosystems.

 

[The Tofunator]

Not at all.

This actually taste great when prepared with care.

Also duck and geese used here are livestock animals, not apex wild predators like sharks.

no, because shark fin was actually killing sharks in the wild, thereby reducing their population to endangered. these geese are born and raise on farms. i don't think they're anywhere close to endangered

as opposed to what? slaughter of animals for eating?

I mean, really, if you're against foie gras, you should be against all meat based product because it's not like those other animals had it any easier.

i don't care because the animal is going to die regardless.

Basically this. Unless you're a vegan/vegetarian, then you have point

because it's hypocrisy to advocate one thing but to totally ignore the bigger picture?

it's like saying, "i'm against the maltreatment of these types of animals but I'm okay with the maltreatment of these other animals just because I like to eat these other animals"

"i'm against the maltreatment of these types of animals but I'm okay with the maltreatment of these other animals just because I like to eat these other animals"

Hypocrisy much? Those sharks were going to die eventually at some point in time. Why are you against tasty shark fin soup?

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Samsung devices

Apple devices

Rechargable batteries

funny enough I don't use either company's hardware.

as for the child mining cobalt, that's a good story. show me the cobalt from there went to my device though (LG/Lenovo), and then we can talk

Hypocrisy much? Those sharks were going to die eventually at some point in time. Why are you against tasty shark fin soup?

they're endangered animals. not farmed raised. if it's shark fin soup from farm raised sharks, then i have no qualms about it

 

[CreepingFear]

Legal experts, will this have any precedence on places such as Chicago that also have the ban? I had foie gras for my first time recently while in France and I loved it.

 

[entremet]

Hypocrisy much? Those sharks were going to die eventually at some point in time. Why are you against tasty shark fin soup?

It's not hypocrisy because I can differentiate between vastly essential wild animals over farm species that number in hundreds of millions and won't be going extinct as long as people find them tasty.

All animals are not equal to me. I would never eat dogs or cats for example.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

So suffering is okay as long as the animal isn't endangered / extinct?

The issue with shark fin soup had nothing to do with whether or not the sharks were "suffering".

The reason this was overturned is because states can't interfere with federal law. I don't see any problem with this.

 

[Leona Lewis]

I listened to an NPR piece a while back about a guy in Spain who devised a method of making free-range foie gras without force-feeding. Apparently it's really difficult to replicate in cooler climates, though.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Legal experts, will this have any precedence on places such as Chicago that also have the ban? I had foie gras for my first time recently while in France and I loved it.

I thought Chicago lifted that ban back in 2008.

 

[Raist]

The article I linked to above claims the animals rarely feel any pain or stress during the process. I can't speak to its validity though.

http://www.artisanfarmers.org/images/Foie_Gras_Study_by_Dr._Guemene.pdf

 

[CreepingFear]

I thought Chicago lifted that ban back in 2008.

Shit, I think you are right. "Move along, move along".

 

[Nesotenso]

Ehhhhh.

Isn't this like shark fin soup?

geese and ducks are not threatened.