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[mollipen]

don't be silly, most people at a concert don't know how to play guitar or sing. it doesn't stop them from having rock and roll-esque fantasies when they turn that shit up really loud or go see a performer. it also means that they won't get the same buzz from a female singer. they'll get a different feeling, sure, but the sense of escapism will be somewhat different. the same is true for games.

I have absolutely no problem with self-insertion, if that's how I came across. My argument was that being a fan or self-insertion and then saying female characters can't be bad-ass is pretty silly, because I'm sure a majority of the people doing said self-insertion are not bad-ass themselves. If they can believe that they, in a realm of the gaming world, could do anything as a character, then it's stupid to say a female couldn't.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Nope. I couldn't care less if the protagonist were a monkey, as long the game is good.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I was going to say that he likes the picture because her face is geometrically attractive. No black eye, no huge scars, no Selvester Salone like muscles with aging (Expendables).

Edit: I didn't even know that was Lara.

lol yeah I had no idea who that was either.

However Cammy was one of the O.G. game chicks with hot scars.

I'm trying to recall others. I seem to recall a character with a giant scar between her cleavage, although I could be confusing that with real life. I recall a hot black chick with this giant scar right down the sternum between her ample cleavage at this one place I used to work.

Hot. :3

 

[Desi]

If it fits the story it's good. If it doesn't then why bother?

i dislike answers like this. Mainly because it is the same meaningless answer when people bring up race in videogames?

"what if the main guy was indian?"
"Would they offer something a brown hair white guy can't?"
"No, he'll just be indian."
"Why bother?"

there will be no progressive change in character design until we stop forcing some stereotype ideal on how a gender or race should be portrayed.

 

[7Th]

Some games actually get better with a female protagonist. Recent example: Persona 3.

 

[Augemitbutter]

Hot in the same way Uma was hot in Kill Bill. Not in the "violence against women is sexy" kind of way, but the "bad-ass chick who just kicked some ass" kind of way. Along the same kinds of lines as how people who find men attractive find a sexiness in, say, a boxer who's just been through a hell of a fight, and is now all sweaty, a little bruised, and so on.

that's better, but i still think that pic is poor and disgusting.

Maybe those guys like playing as female characters? Maybe they like the change? Maybe they enjoy the role-playing aspect? Maybe they think the female character models are more interesting?

i'll never understand that, especially not when that fake female character starts talking in a deep, hairy voice.

 

[Infinite Justice]

doesn't matter what gender the MC is if the game is cool

 

[Ellis Kim]

I want more female leads in games, and I don't understand people who will straight-up pass on a game if the lead isn't a guy, ESPECIALLY if said people are past the age of 19.

Its no surprise that my favorite games have strong (or endearing) female leads/supports, such as:

The Longest Journey
Metal Gear Solid 3
KOTOR
Mirror's Edge
Beyond Good & Evil
HL2
Metroid franchise
WET
Portal
Bayonetta
Tomb Raider (Anniversary)
Parasite Eve

I'm even tempted to mention Agrius Oaks from Final Fantasy Tactics. I'd mention FFX-2 if it weren't for the fact that I like it more for its gameplay.

In games that let me create a character, like Demons Souls, I'll make a female character. In games that will have relationships (and no "Liara" option, so to speak), I'll make a male. I think playing as a female reflects fatherly desires, of creating, guiding, and molding something, more than the "I'd rather watch a chick's ass all day" explanation, at least for me.

 

[Ushojax]

I just want decent characters, I don't give two shits if they're male or female. I have just as much fun playing as Lara Croft as I do Nathan Drake. In some cases it even fits much better, Faith in Mirror's Edge was a much better fit for that game world than a male character IMO. It would be nice to have more games where the female character isn't just escort mission baggage or a huge pair of boobs, though.

The sort of person who would pass on a good game because the lead is female is the sort of person who had a problem playing as the black lead in San Andreas.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

lol yeah I had no idea who that was either.

However Cammy was one of the O.G. game chicks with hot scars.

I'm trying to recall others. I seem to recall a character with a giant scar between her cleavage, although I could be confusing that with real life. I recall a hot black chick with this giant scar right down the sternum between her ample cleavage at this one place I used to work.

Hot. :3

If SSX hadn't jumped in to post this answer yet here's my quicky.

The Boss MGS3. Couldn't find a ingame scar pic fast enough.

 

[Pooya]

Games with female leads are very rare these days, that's somehow make them special among all of the samey dudebros we are getting, so just for the sake of playing something that looks different I'd rather play something with female lead these days. In rpgs I play as both female and male chars if there is an option (two playthroughs), if there are gender specific changes in the game it is pretty good thing to do to make second playthrough feel more fresh.

Nathan Drake Pixar face

err.. you mean DreamWorks, right?

 

[r1chard]

The default character setting in the games industry is clearly male, probably because most game designers are male (as has already been mentioned) and I think that's a shame.

For me it's not about the hotness, or the sex scenes...

It'd just be nice to have more balance, if only so that my daughter doesn't have yet another medium in this world giving her a skewed perspective on what women can do (eg. see also sports broadcasts that almost all ignore female sports leagues). I'm sick of having to keep telling her that no, it's not correct that only boys are allowed to play football.

 

[Fraeon]

I just want decent characters, I don't give two shits if they're male or female. I have just as much fun playing as Lara Croft as I do Nathan Drake. It would be nice to have more games where the female character isn't just escort mission baggage or a huge pair of boobs, though.

Nathan Drake is actually kind of a twit. I don't enjoy playing as him in the slightest.

Lara has never come off as snarky and just plain mean-spirited as Nathan has.

 

[mollipen]

i'll never understand that, especially not when that fake female character starts talking in a deep, hairy voice.

Maybe they care more about enjoying the game the way the want instead of making other people happy.

I want more female leads in games, and I don't understand people who will straight-up pass on a game if the lead isn't a guy, ESPECIALLY if said people are past the age of 19.

I want a Team Ico-created Nausicaa game.

 

[Kritz]

Also, I have to go back to the "heroes should be guys because girls can't be bad-ass" comment. We're talking about video games; saying one collection of polygons is unbelievable but another is believable in partaking in some sort of adventure is ludicrous.

While I don't disagree with you, your analogy in comparing a character to polygons is esentially the same as comparing a character in a book to the letters they're comprised of. It's not a very suitable deconstruction! (Give or take that you can customise the polygons... although there's nothing stopping you from taking a pen to Frodo and calling him Drew.)

OKAY, ignoring that bit of nitpicking, (and this post is no longer a reply to shidoshi),

The problem with female protagonists in games is that protagonists in games aren't very good in general. Neither are any of the other characters. You get some cool partners every now and again such as Alyx (Half Life) and Elena / Chloe (Uncharted), but the point I want to make is that most characters have no character. (I'm surprised at how close this is toeing on Shidoshi's polygon comment, actually.)

It's then worth pointing out that the protagonist, the dude what you play in the game, is intentionally bland. The player likes to (or thinks they like to) project themselves into the character. Which is a lot easier when that character is the same gender as the player. It's too bad that females play games then, huh.

Without getting sidetracked again, what I really want to say is that I think that people who like to play female avatars because they want to look at their butts and have sex with them are kind of a problem and it's not very nice if they get catered to, because at that point you are basically masturbating. But more importantly, if female characters are only in games because they can be almost naked and have the boobs bouncing and stuff (as well as male characters existing as some kind of power fantasy thingy), I think there will be a direct correlation between hot video game ladies and not very good character ladies for a while.

I got sidetracked again because of boobies.

I think video games would be better if the characters inside the video games were better, and I think that making videogame characters shells to be projected into will not fix that problem, but for now I guess I'll live with the partner-characters being the one with personal developments.

 

[Ushojax]

Nathan Drake is actually kind of a twit. I don't enjoy playing as him in the slightest.

Lara has never come off as snarky and just plain mean-spirited as Nathan has.

Eh, they're both Indiana Jones rip-offs and I really see no difference.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

i dislike answers like this. Mainly because it is the same meaningless answer when people bring up race in videogames?

"what if the main guy was indian?"
"Would they offer something a brown hair white guy can't?"
"No, he'll just be indian."
"Why bother?"

there will be no progressive change in character design until we stop forcing some stereotype ideal on how a gender or race should be portrayed.

I agree with this, but we don't really see much of this. Closest we got was RE5 stink, and the whole time I was saying just swap out the cracker. Just replace the white guy and magically - it's not "racist".

In the example you provide, I'd be offended to have a white guy in an Indian mythology based game. Just as an example.

Or a white guy playing a Persian Prince in that movie. Seriously?

 

[mollipen]

While I don't disagree with you, your analogy in comparing a character to polygons is esentially the same as comparing a character in a book to the letters they're comprised of. It's not a very suitable deconstruction! (Give or take that you can customise the polygons... although there's nothing stopping you from taking a pen to Frodo and calling him Drew.)

Well, my bigger point was that if somebody wants to argue that men and women can or cannot do certain things in real life, that's fine, because then you're bringing into play actual physical differences that conform to the laws of nature and whatnot. When we're talking about a fantasy story of any kind, saying a female character can't do or be something a male character can is just stupid.

A group of polygons is just a group of polygons crafted to resemble whatever its creators wanted it to resemble. It has no inherent qualities that would or would not make it qualified to be able to do something.

 

[r1chard]

... snip...
I think video games would be better if the characters inside the video games were better, and I think that making videogame characters shells to be projected into will not fix that problem, but for now I guess I'll live with the partner-characters being the one with personal developments.

The protagonist in video games *should* be a shell. Gordon Freeman works so incredibly well because he has no character. The player can completely invent the character in their head and delve far deeper into the game experience than, say, Just Cause 2 (example used because I just happen to be playing it) where the character isn't entirely a creation of the player, and is in fact a bit of an annoying dick.

Also, girls like to play games, and probably many more would like to, so it's not always about the player fulfilling some kind of fantasy.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I couldn't care less what gender or race a main character is, as long as they are badass, and the game is great.

Hell, Bayonetta is my GOTY, and she's just about as feminine you can get with all the butterflies, pinks, purples, and lollipops radiating off of her. In fact, badass female characters are even more badass than badass male characters BECAUSE there are so few of them.

Cotdamn, that was a badass post.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I want a Team Ico-created Nausicaa game.

As long as there's no climbing and they pick a female composer, I'm in.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

how about more characters like Luis and Tony in GTA: The Ballad of Gay Tony, first?

 

[Dennis]

As long as there's no climbing and they pick a female composer, I'm in.

How do you feel about pants?

 

[r1chard]

I want a Team Ico-created Nausicaa game.

Oh gods yes.

 

[Igo]

One of the main things about the Tomb Raider reboot that catches my attention is the fact that Lara isn't just an oversexualized symbol, her design is a lot more down to earth and realistic.

The old Lara Croft was a bad ass. She looked like someone who wasn't to be fucked with so I can't say i'm happy that she's gone. Down to earth and 'realistic' wasn't really something I wanted from Tomb Raider but it's supposed to be something of an origins story though so i'm game. I do hope they use the opportunity to give her a peronality and not just a more 'oridinary' model though.

As long as the character is well written I really don't even think about their gender.

 

[Sotha Sil]

How do you feel about pants?

:lol

 

[mollipen]

The protagonist in video games *should* be a shell. Gordon Freeman works so incredibly well because he has no character. The player can completely invent the character in their head and delve far deeper into the game experience than, say, Just Cause 2 (example used because I just happen to be playing it) where the character isn't entirely a creation of the player, and is in fact a bit of an annoying dick.

That only goes so far. If we were at the point where games could, in real time, modify and change storylines depending on what the player does, I could probably argue that I'd want all characters to be fully moldable by the player. We're a long way off from that, though, so no way do I want certain types of games to dumb themselves down by asking me to create all of the story in my head (and thus have none of it reflected in the game itself).

The old Lara Croft was a bad ass. She looked like someone who wasn't to be fucked with so I can't say i'm happy that she's gone.

She looked like a blow-up sex doll.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

how about more characters like Luis and Tony in GTA: The Ballad of Gay Tony, first?

Or how about a female lead in the next GTA game? That'll be a sight to see just like the reaction when San Andreas was revealed.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I mean, good writers have a hard enough time writing good characters. Like I said, let's learn how to swim before jumping in the deep end.

Fixed.

Also something else about that Lara pic, is it a flash back to when she was 17? Did they really reboot her back to when she was very young?

21 not 17.

She looked like a blow-up sex doll.

Seriously. She was uncanny valley attached to a pair of tits.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

If anything we need gay and lesbian characters were their sexual orientation ISN'T what their personality and characteristics is about.

 

[mollipen]

How do you feel about pants?

I'm ashamed that it took me a second to get this one.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Or how about a female lead in the next GTA game? That'll be a sight to see just like the reaction when San Andreas was revealed.

I was going to add this. I feel like R* are one of the few devs who could get away with it, or actually plant the seeds that could lead to a new trend, but who knows what the shining eye of Mordor Rockstar NYC has planned for its underlings.

 

[-PXG-]

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the only way gamers would take a female character seriously, is if they had a character behave like, say, Marcus Fenix or Kratos, but had a female body. On the most part, people respect Samus Aran...that is...until she slips into her Zero suit. Once her Varia Suit comes off, she's just tits, ass and eye candy. Just look at Other M: Not only did they show off her ass numerous times, but she was portrayed as being weak, frightened and helpless.

Basically, any woman in a game who isn't a male exhibiting standard female attributes (primarily, physique and voice), is going to attract unwanted attention to one, or many kinds of female stereotypes. Therefore, whatever point the character was trying to make, whatever she was doing, going or whatever the story was about, is lost because of overt sexualization or shoving some kind of feminist agenda down the player's throat.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Or how about a female lead in the next GTA game? That'll be a sight to see just like the reaction when San Andreas was revealed.

And despite the reaction to SA it actually went on to be the best selling game in the franchise.

 

[r1chard]

That only goes so far. If we were at the point where games could, in real time, modify and change storylines depending on what the player does, I could probably argue that I'd want all characters to be fully moldable by the player. We're a long way off from that, though, so no way do I want certain types of games to dumb themselves down by asking me to create all of the story in my head (and thus have none of it reflected in the game itself).

What more do you need from the game apart from a shell to control and some interesting game world to play in?

In GAF's favourite games (the Half-Life series, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, ...) the player has almost no information about the protagonist and has to invent it all. The game becomes about the player's journey. There's nothing more needed from the game.

 

[Lostconfused]

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the only way gamers would take a female character seriously, is if they had a character behave like, say, Marcus Fenix or Kratos, but had a female body. On the most part, people respect Samus Aran...that is...until she slips into her Zero suit. Once her Varia Suit comes off, she's just tits, ass and eye candy.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the skin tight bodysuit?

 

[Igo]

She looked like a blow-up sex doll.

She looked like women I used to see almost every day at the gym, only with a couple guns at her waist and boots on.

 

[Augemitbutter]

Maybe they care more about enjoying the game the way the want instead of making other people happy.

maybe, that's why there always will be those "i like looking at a nice girls ass" comments. what a great incentive to play women.

 

[Sober]

It's then worth pointing out that the protagonist, the dude what you play in the game, is intentionally bland. The player likes to (or thinks they like to) project themselves into the character. Which is a lot easier when that character is the same gender as the player. It's too bad that females play games then, huh.

But that seems problematic only with certain genres, or maybe just video games in general? Plenty of adventure games have you play a female protagonist and those are probably the best written ones. Guess we could chalk it up to the interactivity of the medium that sometimes developers want you to insert yourself into the character's shoes but others want you to have a more authored experience. Honestly they should pick one and stick with it. I mean books, movies, TV have less a problem with it.

 

[Ellis Kim]

I want a Team Ico-created Nausicaa game.

Get out of my mind!

Spoiler

Shame on Ueda and his "explanation" about TLG's gender decision, ESPECIALLY after clearly making a Nausicaa homage in the Japanese release's title font.

 

[teeny]

how about more characters like Luis and Tony in GTA: The Ballad of Gay Tony, first?

I dont think I want to see the industry tackle homosexual characters before it can handle representing women fairly, and as equals. If it doesnt have the maturity to handle basic sex distinctions, there is no way it has the maturity to handle homosexuality without the game making a point of it.

 

[-PXG-]

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the skin tight bodysuit?

I'm saying that most people won't take a female character seriously, if she has skin tight suit that is obviously designed to show off her goods.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Another thing, I hope developers stop making fucking breast plates.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

What more do you need from the game apart from a shell to control and some interesting game world to play in?

In GAF's favourite games (the Half-Life series, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, ...) the player has almost no information about the protagonist and has to invent it all. The game becomes about the player's journey. There's nothing more needed from the game.

much like every other form of fiction, there will always be loads of different ways of presenting information and delivering a ye' ol' yarn.

To say Valve's way is the only way of doing things is like saying 'from here on out, the only novels that shall be allowed are those written in a third-person perspective with an omni-present narrator'.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Unfortunately, in my opinion, the only way gamers would take a female character seriously, is if they had a character behave like, say, Marcus Fenix or Kratos, but had a female body. On the most part, people respect Samus Aran...that is...until she slips into her Zero suit. Once her Varia Suit comes off, she's just tits, ass and eye candy. Just look at Other M: Not only did they show off her ass numerous times, but she was portrayed as being weak, frightened and helpless.

Basically, any woman in a game who isn't a male exhibiting standard female attributes (primarily, physique and voice), is going to attract unwanted attention to one, or many kinds of female stereotypes. Therefore, whatever point the character was trying to make, whatever she was doing, going or whatever the story was about, is lost because of overt sexualization or shoving some kind of feminist agenda down the player's throat.

The Boss (MGS3) was the most awesome female character I've seen. I think her awesomeness was amplified because she was a NPC, sorta like what Kojima tried to do with Snake in MGS2.

 

[Lostconfused]

I'm saying that most people won't take a female character seriously, if she has skin tight suit that is obviously designed to show off her goods.

That sounds about right. I don't see why you would or should take anyone dressed like that seriously.

 

[Sober]

I dont think I want to see the industry tackle homosexual characters before it can handle representing women fairly, and as equals. If it doesnt have the maturity to handle basic sex distinctions, there is no way it has the maturity to handle homosexuality without the game making a point of it.

Sex distinctions are easy, but gender stereotypes are really hard to break because it becomes something easy to use but if you stray too much from it you can alienate your audience (generally dudebros, especially now). Stereotypes in general are hard to break if anything.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I dont think I want to see the industry tackle homosexual characters before it can handle representing women fairly, and as equals. If it doesnt have the maturity to handle basic sex distinctions, there is no way it has the maturity to handle homosexuality without the game making a point of it.

In this case I was just talking about two slightly off-target light-skinned characters, not necessarily gay, but mmm, fair point.

 

[-PXG-]

The Boss (MGS3) was the most awesome female character I've seen. I think her awesomeness was amplified because she was a NPC, sorta like what Kojima tried to do with Snake in MGS2.

I agree. She was a fantastic character. Not "hey, look at my tits" and not "YEAH! GIRL POWER!!!" either.

 

[r1chard]

much like every other form of fiction, there will always be loads of different ways of presenting information and delivering a ye' ol' yarn.

To say Valve's way is the only way of doing things is like saying 'from here on out, the only novels that shall be allowed are those written in a third-person perspective with an omni-present narrator'.

I'm not arguing it's the only way to do it, I'm just (perhaps poorly) arguing that it's a suitable approach for including more female protagonists in video games.

I believe it would be almost trivial to change the sex of the protagonist in Half-Life and apart from a few minor alterations to the game dialogue, the game does not change. Just like was done in Mass Effect.

It's when the female character is anything other than a shell - that the poor game designers have to add flesh to the character - that the flesh of the character typically becomes a laughable overly-sexualised parody. In a skinsuit.

Except in Beyond Good and Evil ...