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[angelfly]

Reviewers aren't going to give his game a poor score because of his idiotic comments.

True, but it's certainly put me off buying Fez.

 

[Clear]

It was a dickish and disrespectful thing to say and this guy needs to be taken down a peg or two. No matter how good Fez may, or may not, be, it doesn't give him carte blanche to spew this sort of xenophobic idiocy.

Way too much ego.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Long development times. The rise of FPS in the West and the downfall of JRPGs in the west. Etc

long dev times only applies to HD console development. Japanese dev output on handhelds has been nothing short of amazing.

 

[shadyspace]

This crosses the line into ethnocentrism. I will never buy any of this guy's games.

 

[Pie and Beans]

For the seemingly sudden tide of people deciding to skip Fez now due to not wanting to support an asshole, enjoy Sky Island right now for free instead:

 

[Emitan]

Its funny, just seconds before clicking this thread, i had put down Castlevania lords of shadow, saying to myself "this game sucks".

As someone who loves Japanese games, that game does suck. Play Rondo of Blood.



Also, everyone knows Japanese games sucks because every single one is nothing but loli pandering.

 

[Empty]

bet this isn't that uncommon an opinion in the western games industry, though probably only someone from indie games developer scene would have the ego to express it like that in a public event.

still looking forward to buying fez, i don't really care about the personality of one of the creators at all. who knows he might be right and it makes galaxy 2 seem like a sucky platformer by comparison lol.

 

[MuddyDonut]

Its funny, just seconds before clicking this thread, i had put down Castlevania lords of shadow, saying to myself "this game sucks".

You lost me.

Spoiler

eurodev

 

[Cramoss]

http://twitter.com/PHIL_FISH/status/176978474634969088

I read that and then looked at my Dark Souls copy...

 

[Cow Mengde]

While unpolite, I think the comment may end up being useful. If it brings forward a discussion on dev level (certainly gonna be more easily heard) about the way japanese industry is lagging behind creatively it's all the better.

The one place that actually brings the most creativity is lagging behind while the other bringing out cookie cutter FPS games is innovative?

 

[i-Lo]

I agree that workflow practices in major Japanese games need reworking and that major publishers are just launching rehashes and not so successful sequels (for most part). But to conduct the way Fish did in public and humiliate the JP dev is just disgusting.

 

[Htown]

what exactly is the problem with japanese games anyway? i missed that whole movement

I don't get it either. I guess people have generalized from Square Enix's bad console output this generation and Capcom's attempt and failure to make good western-styled shooters to the idea that all Japanese games suck now.

Which is stupid.

I agree that workflow practices in major Japanese games needs reworking and that major publishers are just launching rehashes and not so successful sequels (for most part).

How is that different from what Western developers are doing? You've seen EA and Ubisoft and Activision's output this generation; you can't tell me they're not releasing rehashes and sequels. If anything, western publishers are way more likely to annualize their franchises.

 

[djplaeskool]

Wow.
Questioner gives praise to the movie and process, then he turns around and offers a generalized insult back?

Have fun burning bridges and stay classy.

 

[Jesus Carbomb]

There's no way i'm giving this guy my money.

 

[sixteen-bit]

For the seemingly sudden tide of people deciding to skip Fez now due to not wanting to support an asshole, enjoy Sky Island right now for free instead:

Thanks for the heads up, lol.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

It's ironic because while Phil Fish generalizes and insults Japanese developers as a whole, he himself is the most iconic example of the pompous, self-important "indie" jagoff developer that is held in such derision, maybe second only to Jonathan Blow, that in an of itself is a generalization of indie developers.

 

[SolidSnakex]

While unpolite, I think the comment may end up being useful. If it brings forward a discussion on dev level (certainly gonna be more easily heard) about the way japanese industry is lagging behind creatively it's all the better.

Japanese devs are lagging behind creatively? I'd argue that Japanese games are still the most creative games out there. Japanese developers were responsible for those "Wii __" titles, and they're by far the most influential games of this generation.

 

[Kacho]

This angers me greatly. What a stupid and unnecessary comment.

 

[BluWacky]

what exactly is the problem with japanese games anyway? i missed that whole movement

They're all (apparently) paedophiliac dating sim hybrids with no interactivity, no difficulty and archaic gameplay systems.

I think?

It would be interesting to see what Fish's comments actually were, beyond saying "your games suck".

 

[sakipon]

It's strange how an ignorant comment from a dev can have such an impact on whether I buy their game.

Before this, Fez was one of my most anticipated games of the year. Now I don't really care about it anymore.
I feel stupid for saying it because it does look and that's all that matters... but it really has killed my interest...

Sounds normal to me. We have got some standards and values. It's a pretty big thing when someone acts against your own views - and so it should be.

It's the same in other entertainment. People aren't that excited to see dumbass comments from some actor or singer, there's always a severe chance of it reflecting the popularity of their works.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

It's one thing to have that opinion but to go and say it to a Japanese guy that praised your game a few seconds prior is just cruel.

Yeah this.

He's entitled to his opinions regarding the declining influence of Japan on the gaming scene. Just he should keep them to himself and try harder not to oust himself as the dick that he is.

 

[erpg]

Awesome! Buying Fez day one. Sometimes, it's important to give the hard truth. I only hope he backed up his (perfectly correct) statement with evidence and constructive criticism.

 

[sonicmj1]

If he supported his statement, I wouldn't mind as much. But condemning an entire country's worth of games without bothering to justify it is just rude.

Miami University student Ben Sironko said that Jonathan Blow, who also discussed the drawbacks of modern Japanese games, was “way more constructive” with his feedback.

Constructive criticism is worlds of difference from "your games just suck."

I still want to buy Fez, though.

 

[Kyon]

I'd predict that on average, Japan is making worse games nowadays than they used to but to say their games suck is way too harsh of a statement to make. There are plenty of great japanese games out there at the moment if you want them. I guess this guy just doesn't want them.

Nope. Their Handheld games this gen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Sounds like I won't buy Fez anymore.

 

[Cheech]

what exactly is the problem with japanese games anyway? i missed that whole movement

Speaking in generalities, Japanese game design is stagnant and the games themselves tend to take far too long in the oven.

There are exceptions, of course. FROM Software and Nintendo are two beacons of light over there.

 

[Mobius 1]

He could have at least used some tact to express his opinion. That coming from a guy whose only game took 5 years to make and its not even released yet.

Maybe the early praise just went up to his head.

 

[LuchaShaq]

While unpolite, I think the comment may end up being useful. If it brings forward a discussion on dev level (certainly gonna be more easily heard) about the way japanese industry is lagging behind creatively it's all the better.

What will get the attention of higher ups at Japanese devs?

A random guy at GDC who still hasn't released his indie platformer #681

Lower sales and lower review scores for basically the whole generation.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

As someone who loves Japanese games, that game does suck. Play Rondo of Blood.

Lords of Shadow was developed in Euroland.

Also, it's incredibly good.

 

[Shion]

Stupid comment is stupid.

 

[Tiktaalik]

There's some statements in the thread that would lead one to believe he hasn't done anything except work on the unfinished Fez and that's not true.

He is part of a Montreal group Kokoromi (not sure if still active), which put together several video game design shows and he collaborated with them to create Super Hypercube. http://polytroncorporation.com/fez/super-hypercube

 

[Riposte]

*Shrug*
Hate to admit it but it does sound really tempting.

What you do is pray it is terrible (won't take a miracle) and then make a couple comparisons to Japanese gems (including some classic Fez is clearly trying to emulate) in the review. Use those examples to show where it failed in level design, etc.

 

[mysocksarepink]

sounds like he needs a good smack to the mouth

 

[kadotsu]

I think it is great. A few years ago no one would've cheered him. In a couple more years the US will finally achieve cultural independence in games. Just like they did with cinema. Poor me, living in Europe being subjected to those games still.

 

[Alrus]

:lol

Seriously though, they are far more advanced in technology, but seem to struggle with development. SCEJ and Nintendo both take ages to make games, and other Japanese based companies have been riding that Milk train for too long.

Capcom and their countless Street Fighters and RE remakes and ports. Konami with their countless MGS ports/remakes. Nintendo with their countless ports (how many OoTs have they released!?) The list goes on.

Outside of Zelda (and I guess Pikmin 3), Nintendo games usually follow a pretty standard dev cycle... Also Fez isn't really a good example of fast game development.

As for OoT, well there's the VC release and the remake on the 3DS. The gamecube offerings were freebies, I don't see how that counts as milking. Also, I really don't see how milking franchises is exclusive to Japanese devs...

 

[mugurumakensei]

Lords of Shadow was developed in Euroland.

Also, it's incredibly good.

eh... Average at best... Not as good as even the metroidvania's.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The Dogma begins its next phase by crushing any opposition to its hegemony...

This seems to be a common opinion of people who don't actually play Japanese games anymore. They just look at the most visible titles and assume they're awful and go on beating their chests.

That, and it's that what truly sold Japanese games in yesteryear:

Rock Solid Gameplay
Colorful Worlds
Mechanics-based Game Design
Youthful Exuberance
Self-Responsibility on the Part of the Gamer

Are either slagged on by people with VESTED INTERESTS like that idiot in order to appear like the Hot New Thing at game design that everyone should revere (and buy the games of), (how many times have I pointed out incidents like this when they've happened? I've frankly lost count), ignored, or spun. All this due to the stumbling of Japan and people piling on like they're completely down and out.

It's becoming more and more an airtight echo chamber by the day; note Brad Shoemaker appologizing profusely for coming to like Asura's Wrath on the last Bombcast. Look at how FFXIII's super-cinematic, hyper-linearity, and goofball characters are somehow the embarrassment of that title but a western game doing these same things is...not noted. Note how Nier, Half-Minute Hero, Etrian Odysseys, Resonance of Fates, TWEWYs, etc are only noticed for their creative, innovative design decisions when a reviewer comes up short understanding the mechanics and slags on it for them.

This will get worse before it gets better. Mark my words.

 

[sonicmj1]

While unpolite, I think the comment may end up being useful. If it brings forward a discussion on dev level (certainly gonna be more easily heard) about the way japanese industry is lagging behind creatively it's all the better.

A comment without any kind of substance to it can't really build meaningful dialogue.

 

[rollingstart]

The "Only console, no PC thing," and saying "modern Japanese games suck" while making a game that looks heavily inspired of old Japanese games. It just seems like someone is stuck in the late 80s or early 90s. Rotten nostalgia and all that.

 

[Blitzzz]

It would be interesting to see what Fish's comments actually were, beyond saying "your games suck".

going by his twitter response, i wouldn't expect much more

 

[chubigans]

Reading some of his tweets he sure sounds full of himself and pretty arrogant.

He said in his tweets that Jonathan Blow agreed with him. Why am I not surprised.

 

[7threst]

What an asshole. And even after that the Japanese developer thanked the panel. I kind of feel bad for the guy...

 

[Kyon]

long dev times only applies to HD console development. Japanese dev output on handhelds has been nothing short of amazing.

No no I'm saying what western gamer fans say about it lol Im a JP gamer all the way dude

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

eh... Average at best... Not as good as even the metroidvania's.

That's a pretty high bar in my book (at least for the best of them).

 

[Why would you do that?]

His opinion (i.e, the thread title) doesn't really matter to me, and it's totally a valid opinion, even if I completely disagree with it.

However, it really upsets me that he made that comment to that developer's face in front of other developers at GDC. I think that's the real story here, not just his opinion.

 

[Drencrom]

A very unnecessary thing to say. Didn't he expect the backlash he would get for this kind of statement?

 

[Fuu]

But when he asked what the panel thought of modern Japanese video games, Phil Fish (pictured) immediately replied “your games just suck” – a comment that sparked an audible reaction from the crowd, though some were cheering.

Others looked on awkwardly as the Japanese developer was then subjected to a string criticisms about game design flaws in his native country. The developer nevertheless thanked the panel for their response and returned to his seat.

http://twitter.com/PHIL_FISH/status/176978474634969088

Just awful. Not sure what this guy is trying to accomplish by being rude and unprofessional.

 

[thetrin]

It's ironic because while Phil Fish generalizes and insults Japanese developers as a whole, he himself is the most iconic example of the pompous, self-important "indie" jagoff developer that is held in such derision, maybe second only to Jonathan Blow, that in an of itself is a generalization of indie developers.

Blow seems to be fairly full of himself, but I don't think I've read any interviews where he directly insults other people.

 

[nincompoop]

Is this guy like 10 years old or something? How pathetic.

 

[Emitan]

Speaking in generalities, Japanese game design is stagnant and the games themselves tend to take far too long in the oven.

There are exceptions, of course. FROM Software and Nintendo are two beacons of light over there.