-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"
- Thread starter subversus
- Start date
- Status
Glass Rebel
Member
Right in a way that an opinion can be right? I agree.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I wouldn't mind finally seeing that indie game movie to see the guy at work (although it's probably a little self-serving of a portrait), but something about him just rubs me the wrong way.
I am not upset with you. But you act as if your so tired of discussing this. People in the Martin/Zimmerman thread are tired of discussing the same shit to new comers of that thread. You act as if there is some defining moment of grace that fish took, that us new comers have missed. Yes this is a month old, his game is selling like hot cakes, things like this are going to be brought back up. And they should be.
SolidSnakex
Member
Just because someone was a jerk once doesn't mean they are entirely jerks all the time and will forever be jerks and must be scorned and insulted as jerks for the rest of time.
That's what he should've posted the first time. Not after people had to repeatedly tell him how rude he was. Had he done that this thread would've been dead a long time ago.
Well, that and that Japanese games suck.
I mean really, if Japanese games didn't suck this whole thing would have never had happened.
Find me quote where he apologized to the less known individual whom he tried to woo, by asking him to suck his cock and thereby choke on it.
Just because someone was a jerk once doesn't mean they are entirely jerks all the time and will forever be jerks and must be scorned and insulted as jerks for the rest of time.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah he didn't say neither.
What he did say however is that they can't develop shit, which is wrong.
Its truth is... nonsensical though. Yeah it's true that Japan made sucky games... but apparently they're the only ones who made sucky games?
Glass Rebel
Member
Hi Phil?
I don't think an apology to anonymous internet troll #239 is necessary so we'll just agree to disagree on that front.
No, it shouldn't have to be posted, you should be able to have lived on this earth long enough to comprehend it. Hanging on this man's every word just because he's in the public eye is beyond stupid.
The reason this thread is ongoing is because his provocative slander of the Japanese game industry holds very real fears about the Japanese market. Whether Fish was actually keen on that, or was simply being a big-mouth, is irrelevant.
Fair enough I guess. The guy had 11k followers think he works on a gaming site, really not 100% though.
Wow, that would have been a long time ago if they did. I bet they would eat cookies and play Japanese games back when Japanese games were good.
I agree it put into the open what a lot of people didn't want to say and confirmed what a lot of people feared. The whole faux outrage over some dumb comments is an attempt to discredit and obfuscate the discussion that should be going on.
Lolol , GAF delivering daily doses.
Glass Rebel
Member
You guys are right, instead of talking about his comments we should talk about how shitty Japanese games are.
Do you work for the GOP?
Finaika
Member
There are a lot of excellent Japanese games such as Street Fighter X Tekken.
Glass Rebel
Member
Na, though it sounds like you do; distracting the important conversations with irrelevant fluff.
He was joking as well. I'm glad we're all squared here.
Wow, you really do
Glass Rebel
Member
Please, do the first step and start the important conversation then.
What's more important to the gaming industry: the perceived decline in the west of quality of Japanese developed games and whether or not it's a valid concern, or some indie developer made some crass comments at GDC and on Twitter?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Well you could also spin that from whats more important to the game industry: a myopic view on region developed quality that has no basis in reality, or that the world's foremost development conference can have scenarios where the chair responds to valid and honourable questions with negative puerile teenage-like responses?
Both? This thread is not about what's most important to the, know what? You win, voting Romney.
I actually tend to believe that Japanese developers are finally finding their legs. Things are looking better now than they were five years ago.
I think it's pretty clear that many developers simply didn't have what it takes to handle modern graphics techniques and this lead a lot of issues and delays. I'd imagine the focus on PS2 class hardware actually resulted in this as a lot of developers seemed use to creating their own engines from scratch and writing to the metal. This development lead to fast framerates and great engines on PS2, but this method isn't really sustainable with modern hardware and ultimately resulted in developmental difficulties. I'd imagine a lot of Japanese development houses attempted to follow the same cycle that they had been using for years and ended up running head first into some pretty serious problems.
On the flip side, Western developers were used to PC graphics hardware as well as the XBOX. The GPUs powering these platforms were also of Western design as are many of the middleware engines commonly used during development (lots of English documentation). They simply had a huge advantage when stepping into the next generation. The more powerful hardware also allowed many PC developers to transition smoothly over to consoles as well.
So, in that sense, it really seems that a lot of the problems stemmed directly from the transition to new hardware.
With fewer Japanese games available and the quality generally tanking it gave Western developers a chance to really hit hard. With the popularity of XBOX360 factored into this and online multiplayer gaming becoming popular (not a common Japanese thing, it seems) Western developers were able to become the heavy weights of the gaming world.
Smaller Japanese studios simply stuck to low-end hardware such as Nintendo DS or Wii. With handhelds really doing well in Japan it made sense to focus there rather than ruining their company by attempting to create a big budget HD game.
Somewhere in all of this Japanese companies simply lost their advantage and have been struggling to catch up. In the last year, however, there has been plenty of proof that Japan has finally started catching up and I feel that the next 5 years will actually see an increase in Japanese game popularity once again. The fatigue of Western shooters could actually benefit these creators.
I don't expect to see anything like the PS2 era again, but I really think the Japanese have been diligently working to catch up and start delivering again. In the wake of failed attempts at making Western games, I'd also say that developers are slowly returning to in-house Japanese games that aren't specifically designed to cater to the audience they know little about.
Phil was not off base in critiquing the Japanese games industry, but he should have brought about a discussion about what's happening rather than slamming them as a whole just as they are on the cusp of finally stepping up their game.
I really do believe that Japanese game companies have a real opportunity available to them in the next few years. There is definitely a void left by the lack of Japanese games and I can see people jumping back into well made products if they deliver. Just wait.
It wasn't really a perception. Quality of Japanese games really DID nose dive this generation and my thoughts above cover why I think that's the case. Japan is slowly making their come back, however, mark my words.
Glass Rebel
Member
I tend to say this a lot these days but:
You're free to ignore this thread and/or post a new one if it doesn't develop the way you want to. Or you can start the discussion in thos thread by making a good post. As it stands, the thread is about Fish, his comments and people saying that Japanese games are shit without backing that claim up or engaging in discussion.
I'm so tempted to feed you right now, but I won't.
Because that's what you want, isn't it?
Threads are meant for discussion, they're not opinion depositories for like-minded people. We disagree and we're discussing it; I don't think a new thread is appropriate in this case.
It isn't quite that black and white. There is a huge cohort of people jumping to the Japanese development community's defense saying Japanese games are great and doing just fine. Not everyone agrees that they "nose dived" this gen.
So you're arguing that it isn't a valid concern. Great, choose your side and argue it!
Glass Rebel
Member
That's what I'm saying though: there isn't any discussion going on about the topic you perceive as important. You're singling out people talking about Fish when the "Japanese games suck" brigade doesn't add anything meaningful either.
Also, great post dark10x. Agree on all accounts. It's fun to see how the failures of some companies have given the opportunity to rise to others like Platinum, From and Sega's Yakuza studio.
It's not my problem that you can't find anything worthwhile to discuss then, feel free to ignore my posts if that's the case. dark10x had no problem addressing the subject at hand. "Japanese games suck brigade" is also a complete straw man, doesn't exist in this thread except for that one guy obviously trolling and doesn't reflect anything that I've said.
There were still plenty of good Japanese titles produced during this period, of course, but I don't see how ANYONE could suggest that they didn't nosedive to some degree.
It's pretty clear that the Japanese output this generation simply isn't on par with the market leading software of last generation.
I think rightfully many point out that Japanese games on handhelds this generation have been prolific and of high quality. Phil said later on in the panel that he was referring to home console games specifically. He was lamenting the death of the days of when the SNES and Playstation were the hot shit and classic after classic was being put out.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Depends if you limit the release to consoles only.
Riposte
Member
I haven't seen a real good argument out of Fish (or Blow) from that matter. To me it seems clear, like many developers, they don't actually play a lot of games. Maybe a few mainstream ones and a few of indies for that circle-jerk.
There are good Japanese titles on consoles. The best as far I am concerned.
There are good Japanese titles on consoles. The best as far I am concerned.
Glass Rebel
Member
Uhm dude, look at your posts on this page. Your first comment about what conversation should be going on was after I suggested you do the first step and actually say what that is instead of saying we should discuss something more important. That's also what dark10x replied to.
And it's really not a strawman when it's actually happened on the sidelines. I also wasn't talking about you.
This thread is tiring.
Gillian Seed
Banned
Im confused........ The first thing i noticed in Fez was the poster straight from the opening title screen in The Legend Of Zelda.
This guy is in his own world apparently, I thought he was joking on some of the past comments at first read.
Thread is tiring because he's spinning the shit out of everything at the moment.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Phil has stated that he admires the japanese output form the 8 and 16 bit era.
He's referring to modern games.
Like trying to play through a recent Japanese console release and struggling to stay interested because you remember way back in the day when Japanese games used to be good.
Glass Rebel
Member
What? I'm not buying a game starring a douche!
Oh u
I know you're just trolling but please, tell me what recent Japanese games you've played.
Gillian Seed
Banned
Again, if you don't think my posts warrant any response or discussion from you, then feel free to ignore them. If you still have issues feel free to PM a mod.
He's currently trolling the EA/ToR thread too. I wouldn't give him the time of day if I were you.
Glass Rebel
Member
rofl okay?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I thought I was fast enough, lol
- Status