Support NeoGAF

[Anne]

Also, it's entirely possible, and somewhat likely, that the fastest way to murder somebody is to reset them with something extremely stupid a couple times similar to MvC2 or Skullgirls. ASW puts the most disgusting mix up of the entire genre in their games on a regular basis. A MvC2/3 spiritual successor from them? There has to be next level grime in there.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

What I'm saying is there's a good chance that what Max is dong is hilariously suboptimal and it will more than likely be a 1-2 hit death type game knowing how ASW does their shit. There are probably tons of combo tools in there people don't even know about yet because they only get limited time and do the basically autocombo tier tools and feel good about it.

"Probably" or "maybe". You should really take a better look at the mechanics in this game. There is no Roman Cancel like mechanic, you can't link normals, you only have 3 attack buttons and one of them is exclusively a universal launcher/wallbounce button, and not a lot of specials. I can't see the "probably", there is no freeform mechanic that's going to open the game up now. That's why I'm concerned with the removal of vanish into dragon rush because that was this games Roman Cancel and it's gone.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Also, it's entirely possible, and somewhat likely, that the fastest way to murder somebody is to reset them with something extremely stupid a couple times similar to MvC2 or Skullgirls. ASW puts the most disgusting mix up of the entire genre in their games on a regular basis. A MvC2/3 spiritual successor from them? There has to be next level grime in there.

Game doesn't have 8 way air dash and all overheads(except Buu's) can't be comboed into without assists so that doesn't seem likely.
Also to add to this assists have like 5x the cooldown of a Marvel assist.

 

[Skab]

I've never seen Max play an anime tier game and do a real combo. Even in UMvC3 I never saw him go close to optimal and he didn't even always finish basic BnBs. I'm calling it like I see it, he's not going to be the type of player to bust out a real combo on day -200. I wouldn't expect it on actual day 200 either though.

Got nothing against the guy, bu the's the exact target of "people who are interested enough to try but not enough to training mode" that these mechanics exist for.

He goes into training mode plenty. If you're going to call it like you see it, make sure you're actually looking first.

Oh yea, my b. Read that wrong.


Seems like shots for no reason. I remember him going to wnf and placing in mvc3 ages ago.

I mean I guess he can't dedicate himself to one game because of the content the produces, but I think he's actually good at most and would be legit if he put in time.

Also this.

 

[Anne]

Are people in the thread actually going to defend Max on his skills when it comes to combos and tech? You've got to be fucking with me lmao

"Probably" or "maybe". You should really take a better look at the mechanics in this game. There is no Roman Cancel like mechanic, you can't link normals, you only have 3 attack buttons and one of them is exclusively a universal launcher/wallbounce button, and not a lot of specials. I can't see the "probably", there is no freeform mechanic that's going to open the game up now. That's why I'm concerned with the removal of vanish into dragon rush because that was this games Roman Cancel and it's gone.

I didn't know they got rid of the vanish cancel :T That is super shitty. I still don't doubt there is a lot of dumb shit with a simple scheme, I come from Persona and oh man that was an experience. My experience with ASW points towards there being a lot more than what we're seeing at this point, mix ups included. Does anybody know how scaling actually works yet? That is a massive thing for figuring out how things will shake out in an ASW game.

He goes into training mode plenty. If you're going to call it like you see it, make sure you're actually looking first.

I've seen this dude's content for like half a decade now. I know who he is an dhow he plays games. He's not somebody to look for strong combos and tech from and he'll probably tell you as much himself.

 

[tariniel]

What's the go-to fight stick right now (PC/PS4)? I've been considering a Panthera or Obsidian for a while but I'm not sure if there's newer/better out there at this point.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Are people in the thread actually going to defend Max on his skills when it comes to combos and tech? You've got to be fucking with me lmao

I know it's cool to hate on Max but you're acting like the man is incompetent, he's really not.

 

[Skab]

I've seen this dude's content for like half a decade now. I know who he is an dhow he plays games. He's not somebody to look for strong combos and tech from and he'll probably tell you as much himself.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying. You're acting like he's a super casual who can only use the most basic of stuff in games, when he's not. That's all.

 

[Anne]

I don't think that's what anyone is saying. You're acting like he's a super casual who can only use the most basic of stuff in games, when he's not. That's all.

I'm saying he is not very good at combos and ASW throws in combo mechanics for people that aren't very good at combos. Sorry if I expect him to gravitate towards those rather than start exploring a combo system in depth.

 

[pizzacat]

Hopefully max stays on dbfz or he won't be able to keep up with people and quit after getting butt smashed in a lobby like he did xrd lol

 

[Lemstar]

i like the old avatar

 

[irfaanator]

i like the old avatar

that is the old avatar tho

 

[Linari]

Wait you can still cancel into vanish off stuff, it just has a limit now. Instead of the ridiculous nonsense before of basic lauch j.BB vanish, dragon rush and repeat until super.

Hell people haven't even begun exploring the S moves in combos yet for some reason. Many of those S moves look hella good to use with the low recovery and I wonder if you can empty cancel them if not w.e.

 

[ColonialHawk]

What's the go-to fight stick right now (PC/PS4)? I've been considering a Panthera or Obsidian for a while but I'm not sure if there's newer/better out there at this point.

I think Panthera or Obsidian are two of the best out there for newest fightsticks.

You could also post in the Gaf Fightstick thread for info as well.

 

[Shouta]

I'd definitely wait on the sky is falling stuff about DBFZ. ASW combo mechanics are a lot more involved as Anne points out but you also have to remember that pre-release or release day combos aren't usually optimal except when the game is incredibly limited like some games.

Nothing against Max either but yeah, he's not someone I'd go to for a full exploration of combos in a game.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Wait you can still cancel into vanish off stuff, it just has a limit now. Instead of the ridiculous nonsense before of basic lauch j.BB vanish, dragon rush and repeat until super.

Hell people haven't even begun exploring the S moves in combos yet for some reason. Many of those S moves look hella good to use with the low recovery and I wonder if you can empty cancel them if not w.e.

How was it ridiculous? It costs a meter. S moves? All S button attacks are some sort of energy attack or beam.

Let me breakdown combo structure for you.

Everyone has two target combos on the ground which are AAA and BBB.
C is like MvC3's S. If you crouch and do it you will launch the opponent upward, standing will wallbounce them. These are called "Smashes"
S is just a beam attack.

You can chain upwards from target combos but not down.
So you can do AABBC but you can't do BBAAA say if you wanted the last hit of the AAA target combo.

You get 1 Smash per combo, 1 homing dash per airborne state.
Instead of homing dashing yourself you can tag in your partner to do it but the same rules apply.

If you do a C in the air it will just KD so much like MvC3's S again.

Those are your limitations it seems.

 

[CommandThrower]

First big change is pretty easy to explain, supers do shit damage now. Even in the E3 build they were pretty weak, you could spend 7 bars in a combo with two level 3s and not kill a character, and that was THE E3 BUILD, the scalling is way worse in the gamescon build.

The second and bigger one was the removal of DBFZ's dragon rush combo extender. How it worked in the E3 build is you have this move called "Vanish", Vanish for the cost of a bar would wall bounce your opponent off the wall at any point. Early on people thought that shit was useless cause you can't reach the opponent after the wall bounce to follow up. This is because once you leave the ground you only have one homing dash and to convert off your launcher you need to use it. Then people figured out that because dragon rush dashed a little you could replace where you would have homing dashed with a dragon rush and extend the combo.

Now that's all gone. Dragon Rush when you try to combo it will just know them to the ground with no ability follow up. Vanish now has become useless as a combo extender for aerial combos. I literally would be okay with this if Vanish reset your homing dash instead now which would allow you to follow up but that's not the case. The big issue is they removed a mechanic that allowed for more combo freedom and did put anything in its place.

That combined with the weakened supers and you got a game where takes forever to kill just one character and most combos have been reduced back to

ABC homing dash BB double jump BB Special Super.

That shit isn't gonna fly in a real competitive game. People are going to get bored of playing and watching it real fast.
I'm voicing my concerns now so something can be done. I can see the path this game is on and it's not good for long term competitive play.

Thanks for this!


I think I'll reserve my judgment for later on. It'll be hard to make a determination when the game's not complete yet.

 

[.la1n]

I'd definitely wait on the sky is falling stuff about DBFZ. ASW combo mechanics are a lot more involved as Anne points out but you also have to remember that pre-release or release day combos aren't usually optimal except when the game is incredibly limited like some games.

Nothing against Max either but yeah, he's not someone I'd go to for a full exploration of combos in a game.

I agree. I tend to wait until fairly deep into a fighter's first year or two before I judge how deep or shallow it is.

 

[shaowebb]

Huh...so the leaks were all true. Injustice 2's other 3 DLC cast are Raiden, Black Manta and Hellboy. Not bad. Two MK reps blows though. Especially if its not Scorpion vs Sub Zero or some such rivalry in the same game. Hellboy is good though. Nice to see an out of DC rep brought in from comics. Thats how I think oddballs need to be for this series...still comic book dudes, but not necessarily DC.

Still only gonna treat it casual tier till they get rid of cinematic tax though. Till thats gone I actively dont care.

 

[Linari]

How was it ridiculous? It costs a meter. S moves? All S button attacks are some sort of energy attack or beam.

Let me breakdown combo structure for you.

Everyone has two target combos on the ground which are AAA and BBB.
C is like MvC3's S. If you crouch and do it you will launch the opponent upward, standing will wallbounce them. These are called "Smashes"
S is just a beam attack.

You can chain upwards from target combos but not down.
So you can do AABBC but you can't do BBAAA say if you wanted the last hit of the AAA target combo.

You get 1 Smash per combo, 1 homing dash per airborne state.
Instead of homing dashing yourself you can tag in your partner to do it but the same rules apply.

If you do a C in the air it will just KD so much like MvC3's S again.

Those are your limitations it seems.

Yeah, I know the combo structure. Thanks for the breakdown though.

By S moves I meant the normal S moves like 2S, 5S, 3S 6S, j.S j.2S etc. They are definitely underutilized going on from most vids I've seen thus far. Like hell, I haven't seen any Frieza use his 22S special so I'm wondering on the properties on that.

But anyway, this is a public test build and not the final build and things will definitely change before we get it in our hands.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Yeah, I know the combo structure. Thanks for the breakdown though.

By S moves I meant the normal S moves like 2S, 5S, 3S 6S, j.S j.2S etc. They are definitely underutilized going on from most vids I've seen thus far. Like hell, I haven't seen any Frieza use his 22S special so I'm wondering on the properties on that.

But anyway, this is a public test build and not the final build and things will definitely change before we get it in our hands.

Uhh there is no 2S 6S 3S or any of that dude. Just S and j.S. There are some supers and specials that use S but as far as normals all there is S and jump S.

 

[shaowebb]

How about command normals to break up the target combo structure or mixing it up with crouching stuff?

Like AA2A or AA6A into BB2B or BB6B then ending that in either S or 2S for the launcher or wallbounce extension portion? Youd think there would be command normals at this point and the same old ability to mix up the target combo structure by mixing in standing and crouching attacks of the same strength like A into 2A stuff. It looked like there was to me at least. It didn't all look like AAA and BBB goin down out there.

 

[Onemic]

Ya, I wouldnt be surprised at all if those were just the easier suboptimal combos in the game. This is ASW we're talking about lol.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

How about command normals to break up the target combo structure or mixing it up with crouching stuff?

Like AA2A or AA6A into BB2B or BB6B then ending that in either S or 2S for the launcher or wallbounce extension portion? Youd think there would be command normals at this point and the same old ability to mix up the target combo structure by mixing in standing and crouching attacks of the same strength like A into 2A stuff. It looked like there was to me at least. It didn't all look like AAA and BBB goin down out there.

Ok first S is not the launcher. S is a generic projectile, C is the launcher.
The only known command normals on the ground are the F+B universal overheads. You can't chain into them.
You can start with a c.A but once you start the AA target combo I think you can only go to B or C.
BBBB target combos are just stB into c.B into special into super. Check Max's Trunk's breakdown. He shows of all the normals and target combos.

 

[shaowebb]

Ok first S is not the launcher. S is a generic projectile, C is the launcher.
The only known command normals on the ground are the F+B universal overheads. You can't chain into them.
You can start with a c.A but once you start the AA target combo I think you can only go to B or C.
BBBB target combos are just stB into c.B into special into super. Check Max's Trunk's breakdown. He shows of all the normals and target combos.

Cool. Sorry I misread about S and C. Kinda thread jumping here to catch up.
Doesn't sound too bad just not nearly as open as before.

Still pumped here. Honestly I'm not a huge damage fan so I feel they did good to tone it down but just went a little too hard right at the same time that they took away a cancel technique to link stuff for longer combos. I think they cut off more than intended not taking new combo sizes fully into account in this build. Still looks like it plays amazingly though. They got plenty of time to figure out the damage and stuff like universal/character specific cancel options as well. I'd easily expect combos and damage to expand in a more controlled manner as we go through builds.

 

[Linari]

Uhh there is no 2S 6S 3S or any of that dude. Just S and j.S. There are some supers and specials that use S but as far as normals all there is S and jump S.

There is definitely 2S at least as the AA ki blast for goku or hoping overhead look for gohan or flying dash while raining from Cell for example

 

[enzo_gt]

Way too early to judge DBZF on mechanics. They changed recently, and can change again just so quick.

I fear GG animation not being my forte will hinder my enjoyment of the game more than anything.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

There is definitely 2S at least as the AA ki blast for goku or hoping overhead look for gohan or flying dash while raining from Cell for example

Hmmmm looking at the E3 movelist I don't see a listed Ki attack that would be his dashing fireballs. You might be right but it's probably character specific.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Capcom just uploaded some sort of Ibuki 4-player online mini-game:
http://tamaya.capcom.co.jp

It actually matches you up with online opponents, and you try to collect bombs...while using black bombs to blow up other people's bombs.

Like "capture the flag"...sorta.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I didn't know they got rid of the vanish cancel :T That is super shitty.

You can still go into vanish then DR it just no longer relaunches. Someone on Twitter also posted about how during Sparking if you hold after vanish the character omits the wall bounce attack and you can follow up with another normal instead.

 

[Anne]

Those "target combos" sound like the generic autocombo strings in other ASW games. ASW hasn't really done extended target combos before. They have some normals with single unique follow ups, usually something like 5BB, but not much else. If hitting a button repeatedly in a string just gets you a canned string of other moves that already exist, it's probably not something that goes into a real route.

 

[Gunslinger]

Why a generation old game (MvC3) looks miles better than a current gen game (MvC:I)?

 

[Turbanator]

Why a generation old game (MvC3) looks miles better than a current gen game (MvC:I)?

Because Marvel likes shitty art styles and Capcom is shitty at making that shitty art style work.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Why a generation old game (MvC3) looks miles better than a current gen game (MvC:I)?

Because budget.

 

[Tripon]

Prepare for a lot of this next year.

https://twitter.com/Kurisu0389/status/900465051433410563

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Prepare for a lot of this next year.

https://twitter.com/Kurisu0389/status/900465051433410563

imma block this foolishness on sight smh

 

[Professor Beef]

Prepare for a lot of this next year.

https://twitter.com/Kurisu0389/status/900465051433410563

scrubquotes gonna be eating good

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Prepare for a lot of this next year.

https://twitter.com/Kurisu0389/status/900465051433410563

I mean look at his Twitter bio ffs

 

[Professor Beef]

his name is chris and he put "kurisu" as his fucking twitter name

anne come get your boy

 

[Anne]

anne come get your boy

You act like I'd fuck with somebody dumb enough to be a hardcore DBZ fan.

 

[Kalamari]

Guys, if you don't wear a DBZ shirt from suncoast video, you're not a real fan. kappa

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

On Dragon Ball Fighterz combo system:

Looks like to do optimal combos you might actually just want to use AAA string in this build. All AAAs end with a unique hit animation that sends the opponent flying but is not a Smash. This allows you to follow up with homing dash & do AB double jump AB Smash in the air which you can then Tag cancel into another character and finish the combo.

 

[Professor Beef]

You act like I'd fuck with somebody dumb enough to be a hardcore DBZ fan.

i thought you anime dudes stuck together

also according to his twitter bio he's not a dbz fan he's a team four star fan lmao

 

[A Pretty Panda]

i thought you anime dudes stuck together

also according to his twitter bio he's not a dbz fan he's a team four star fan lmao

Exactly.

That's somehow worse than this

 

[Dereck]

Prepare for a lot of this next year.

https://twitter.com/Kurisu0389/status/900465051433410563

his name is chris and he put "kurisu" as his fucking twitter name

anne come get your boy

You act like I'd fuck with somebody dumb enough to be a hardcore DBZ fan.

i thought you anime dudes stuck together

also according to his twitter bio he's not a dbz fan he's a team four star fan lmao

 

[CO_Andy]

K I B L A S T

get it rite, fighting nerds

 

[katsubento]

Prepare for a lot of this next year.

https://twitter.com/Kurisu0389/status/900465051433410563

Oh my. Smash people everywhere trying to play a real game.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Give her SSJ 2 like Dragon Install. Make this bird nuts arc sys.

 

[Flying High]

ATM MVC:I has like four MAYBE five characters I will play, but DBFZ I want to play EVERY single one!

Also, just a reminder, that I am helping out with an Online Tournament with a Final send off to UMVC3 coming up on September 8th, at 7PM EST.

There are Prizes, which are $300+ in Cash prizes, a copy of MVCI for the PS4 and more!

If you want to sign up, or see various rules, what the streams are for the tournament, click here to check it out.

At the moment, we have SOCAL Irongod, Dios X, xWAx Weeberman, Jasonkido, imashbuttons, faisaldante, JDog, JoeyD as notable players that signed up already, and expecting more people still!

 

[RockTurtle]

Give her SSJ 2 like Dragon Install. Make this bird nuts arc sys.

i love me some caucasian broads!