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[lostinblue]

It's just a fisheye lense. The game really doesn't share anything in common with Mario Galaxy in terms of gameplay.

I believe it has more than that in common.

Mario Galaxy was a break from prior Mario 3D games that focused on big explorable landscapes, by having it focusing on traveling between more but smaller areas that were still interconnected giving the notion of a level rather than a room, the planet design mostly without walls doing the limiting also kept you from thinking about it as a room.

Intentionally, due to limitations... or not, Sonic Xtreme looked like it shared that. Just not circular the world part. But the fisheye lens give it that circular look for most and you're right that has nothing to do with Mario Galaxy.

And speaking of which, I feel perhaps in that sense it has more in common with the upcoming Toad Treasure Tracker "block" type of level design. Or should I say shape? But it probably has less in common as a game.


That demo for Tiara Bobowski also greatly resembles some of Mario Galaxy "bonus phase" levels stuck into the levels. This said Mario Galaxy is clearly an artistic exercise of variety. I'm not so sure this game had this (actually I'm sure of the exact opposite), but some of the ideas are coincidental, no doubt. I see no problem with people seeing similarities, thinking about concepts like rip off (which is usually what's at stake) or thinking it detracts from whatever is very silly though.

 

[SegaShack]

.

So now I'm in a negotiating phase of all of this. The guy with the source says he needs an NV1 to prep this for release, which makes sense. He wants to buy my NV1 but, as a collector, I don't want to sell.

So the arrangement I'm trying to make with the guy is to loan him my NV1 for as long as he needs, for the good of this project, on the condition that I see some proof of the existence of this before sending it out. So this might take a while.

Oh boy. We need to ensure people don't bug jolly roger. I can see this turning into nothing fast.

Cooljerk, I understand your enthusiasm but maybe in the future if things aren't certain you shouldn't make a title saying "leaking as we speak" and say that the guy is sending the files over, when it is not the case.

 

[NeOak]

There was never a build of that in the first place. That's not a game. It's a pitch animation. It was never picked up, development never started. What you see is all that ever existed, it wasn't a game nor was it ever playable.

So now I'm in a negotiating phase of all of this. The guy with the source says he needs an NV1 to prep this for release, which makes sense. He wants to buy my NV1 but, as a collector, I don't want to sell.

So the arrangement I'm trying to make with the guy is to loan him my NV1 for as long as he needs, for the good of this project, on the condition that I see some proof of the existence of this before sending it out. So this might take a while.

How about getting the guy a NV1 instead?

I mean, there is one on eBay.

I know, not an ideal solution, but that way that guy has something to work with without problems.

 

[Diablohead]

So the arrangement I'm trying to make with the guy is to loan him my NV1 for as long as he needs, for the good of this project, on the condition that I see some proof of the existence of this before sending it out. So this might take a while.

If you do end up lending that unit out for him i'd strongly suggest not using regular postal services, would probably end up breaking and being smashed in transit.

 

[SegaShack]

How about getting the guy a NV1 instead?

I mean, there is one on eBay.

I know, not an ideal solution, but that way that guy has something to work with without problems.

Andrew75 bought an NV1 card on ebay to send to the guy, but then people called him an idiot and said that he overpaid, so he cancelled the transaction .

 

[Krejlooc]

I can understand the logic behind his reply, for those wondering. You're prepping a development environment to try and build 20 year old code, that involves tons of trial and error. Having to do this remotely, sending every single attempted build, to someone online would be an enormous pain in the ass. It would turn a process that could normally take hours into a process that might take months when you factor in time schedules and time zones and all that.

I don't think he wants to give out the source code in the first place, for the reasons we all know (ofer doesn't want that to happen, as an example.) Best case scenario would be the guy releases the source on his own so we could all coordinate together, but it's his stuff so he gets to make the rules.

I don't think he doesn't "trust us" but rather what we propose is logistically a nightmare.

Regardless, I've offered to loan him my card for free, for the benefit of everybody involved in this. I just want some proof from the guy that this is real before I mail off a piece of my collection to a stranger, which isn't unreasonable. I think the guy is going to deliver ultimately . His PM reply to me was to the effect that the best way to help would be to sell him my NV1 for him to work with, otherwise I'd just have to wait for his planned normal release.

In short, everyone just chiiiiillllllllll. I know sonic fans have a history of working themselves into a frenzy and scaring people off. Just let this work itself out

 

[NEO0MJ]

Wasn't it at like, 30% when it was cancelled?

It was still playable, though I doubt Nintendo gave anyone a chance to escape with it. How often do they get leaks on the level of Sonic Extreme?

I'm still shocked that Naka was so overprotective of the Nights engine. Big deal, they were all Sega employees, how can you get pissed that another team is using an engine that your game used?

I really hated the infighting within Sega, absolutely ruined them and their potential.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

I've been keeping an eye on this on Sonic Retro. So happy this is happening. I always thought that Sonic Xtreme was the one that got away. I think it could have been neat if they didn't run into so many troubles.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I believe he was mad because it was taken without his permission

Yuji Naka was also something of a drama queen, based on bits and pieces that have come out.

After the release of Sonic 1, he actually quit his job at Sega of Japan because he felt he wasn't being paid enough. Sega of Japan at the time paid employees based on how long they had been working at the company, and Naka had only been there 2-3 years. So he walked.

Mark Cerny lured him to Sega of America, where he had started the "Sega Technical Insitute". The idea was that Sega's Japanese developers would come overseas and teach the Americans how to make games the right way.

Sonic 2 was made at STI, with a mixture of Sega devs from Japan and newbie American designers.

Sega of Japan wisely re-hired Naka at a higher rate for Sonic 3.

Other bits and pieces have come out; one of the Sonic X-treme developers years ago recalls the initial pitch for the game involved some members of Sonic Team, and Naka was described as being pretty flippant about the project, in a "Good luck, assholes" sort of way.

Similar story came out when DiC was ramping up production on the Sonic cartoons - some as-of-yet-unnamed members of Sonic Team were shown test footage for both the Saturday Morning and Weekday Afternoon cartoons and were described by DiC's production staff as being thoroughly disinterested in the whole process.

 

[Krejlooc]

Cooljerk, I understand your enthusiasm but maybe in the future if things aren't certain you shouldn't make a title saying "leaking as we speak" and say that the guy is sending the files over, when it is not the case.

It's still leaking, as in, the guy has the code and has built it and is working on distributing it. And the guy has indicated he's interested in sending the files over. This is how leaks like this go, it's back and forth. He had been willing on working with Andrew75, I'm guessing he doesn't know my involvement with Sonic Retro yet.

I think working behind the doors, closing off this sort of process to those "in the know" is sort of elitist, I like being open. I think this stuff is fun, and it's been a while since I've been directly involved in the hunt for a proto like this. Especially given that this is Sonic Xtreme, a game I've worked on getting the proto for, with varying degrees of success, for years now.

I wrote a post on assembler and Sonic Retro urging people hanging on to not bug this guy to release the source or whatever, because his request makes sense for logistical reasons. Sonic fans have a habit of working themselves into a frenzy over prototypes, and we've lost prototypes in the past because people go nuts and get demanding. This stuff will eventually work itself out.

 

[J@hranimo]

This is a pretty momentous occasion for us Sonic fans.

This game is almost like an urban myth, despite others working on it and spilling some of the beans of its developmental process.

I'm very curious about this. You have my attention OP.

 

[Mr Swine]

I'm sorry, but as a Sonic fan, Sonic Xtreme looks boring and dull as hell. I really don't like the fish eye lens they went with :/

 

[lostinblue]

I really hated the infighting within Sega, absolutely ruined them and their potential.

Problem is it wasn't just the NiGHTS Engine. It was down to even the Devtools for it.

Granted, the improvements were done with sweat and tears, but there was a clear sense of entitlement with the gains within Sega Teams.


Well summed here:

"One very fast central processor would be preferable. I don't think all programmers have the ability to program two CPUs—most can only get about one-and-a-half times the speed you can get from one SH-2. I think that only 1 in 100 programmers are good enough to get this kind of speed [nearly double] out of the Saturn."

—Yu Suzuki

Hence they didn't wanted to hand out their hard work. This was normal back then, even with Nintendo it wasn't until Iwata became president that they've started releasing more documentation about their system and unified support. Nintendo used to have their own support line with more clearance and that was initially met with some internal resistance. I don't know for Sony, if that ever was a thing but I guess not.


SGL 2.0 (Sega Graphics Library) was kept exclusive to Sega Japan throughout the majority of NiGHTS development (the previous SDK wouldn't be able to deliver so Sonic Team heavily changed and improved upon it, hence was pretty much sitting on it for quite a while), and they've only released to third parties it in April 1996.

At this point due to industry grumblings third parties knew Sega was upholding better tools for themselves and had been asking/demanding them for more than 6 months. There really was a feeling of betrayal.

 

[Krejlooc]

I'm sorry, but as a Sonic fan, Sonic Xtreme looks boring and dull as hell. I really don't like the fish eye lens they went with :/

I don't think many people familiar with Sonic Xtreme think the game looks good, it's just a source of extreme curiosity.

 

[SegaShack]

It's still leaking, as in, the guy has the code and has built it and is working on distributing it. And the guy has indicated he's interested in sending the files over. This is how leaks like this go, it's back and forth. He had been willing on working with Andrew75, I'm guessing he doesn't know my involvement with Sonic Retro yet.

I think working behind the doors, closing off this sort of process to those "in the know" is sort of elitist, I like being open. I think this stuff is fun, and it's been a while since I've been directly involved in the hunt for a proto like this. Especially given that this is Sonic Xtreme, a game I've worked on getting the proto for, with varying degrees of success, for years now.

I wrote a post on assembler and Sonic Retro urging people hanging on to not bug this guy to release the source or whatever, because his request makes sense for logistical reasons. Sonic fans have a habit of working themselves into a frenzy over prototypes, and we've lost prototypes in the past because people go nuts and get demanding. This stuff will eventually work itself out.

I know what you mean. Assembler is open membership though, although it is much more niche than a general site like this.

I just think that many people will see "leaking as we speak" as something that is being uploaded or distributed currently and will be online soon, instead of something happening weeks later. I had read the threads on Retro and Assembler before so I certainly thought that the title meant that the game was being released currently.

Furthermore, I also agree that we shouldn't bug the guy, but bringing it more attention like this to me just makes it seem more likely that he will be bugged or pressured.

Anyways, I appreciate everything you are doing. Just wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I'm sorry, but as a Sonic fan, Sonic Xtreme looks boring and dull as hell. I really don't like the fish eye lens they went with :/

Like Krejlooc said, this about history. It's one of those legendary cancelled games that fans really wanted to know more about.

 

[Exis]

I would chip in for the card if anybody ever does crowdfunding to get it to him.

 

[Slackerchan]

Man, I don't even want to imagine what would happen to my eyeballs playing that game on the Oculus Rift.

 

[Krejlooc]

I would chip in for the card if anybody ever does crowdfunding to get it to him.

He specifically asked for a previous effort to stop, although that was mainly because the card for sale (the one above) didn't include the controller ports.

 

[Xater]

I'm still shocked that Naka was so overprotective of the Nights engine. Big deal, they were all Sega employees, how can you get pissed that another team is using an engine that your game used?

Yeah it's quite ridiculous.

What is still more shocking to me concerning this game is that someone locked at the pitch video and thought that was a great idea to go ahead with.

 

[Fireye]

He specifically asked for a previous effort to stop, although that was mainly because the card for sale (the one above) didn't include the controller ports.

The card that was linked does have internal headers for a "Port A" and "Port B". Of course, I don't know if those are Saturn ports, or some other port, without a manual for the card it's hard to tell.

Though, I did find this museum page, which has an image of a gamepad brakcet, which matches up to those pinouts on the NV1 card.

 

[Panajev2001a]

THIS DOES NOT RUN ON SEGA SATURN SYSTEMS.

It's been a long, weird road, but it looks like we finally have every bit of Sonic Xtreme ever worked on. A member of Sonic Retro and Assembler has his hands on Ofer's source code for Sonic Xtreme and has successfully built the binary, and is sending it out to a few people to test to make sure the game actually runs. In his possession is the final source, including source codes for the level editor and some files needed to turn your PC into a Dev Kit.

Some background on Sonic Xtreme, as many likely don't know the entire story. Sonic Xtreme was Sega of America's project while Sonic Team was working on NiGHTS, it was intended to be THE Sonic game for "next-gen" platforms. The roots of Sonic Xtreme trace back to the Genesis days, when Chris Senn originally pitched the game as an isometric scrolling game:

The game wasn't approved as is, but rather proposed to be moved to the then-in-development Sega 32X, under the name Sonic Mars. A pitch video, made on an Amiga 1200, has survived of what they envisioned Sonic Mars running as:

Mock-up of the pitch video, and the actual pitch-video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjuPHeNTcWs

The game was eventually OKed for the upcoming Sega Saturn, where it was positioned to be THE Sonic game for the system. Originally, the SoA team managed to get their hands on Yuji Naka's NiGHTS engine and had intended to use said engine for boss battles on the game:

Footage of the NiGHTS engine being used for bosses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajuzf79476Y

Some executives saw this and demanded the entire game be made with this engine, scrapping an early-in-development normal-stage engine they were working on in the process. Eventually, a small test of this engine leaked as a binary that can run on stock saturns:

Early version of the engine, that has leaked. It continued being worked upon, because leaks like this have popped up online:

This version featured improved graphics, morphing ground (ala soft museum in NiGHTS), and a 3D sonic. Unfortunately, Yuji Naka got wind that they were using his prized engine, and threatened to leave sega unless they stopped using his work. Rather than lose Yuji Naka, SoA yanked the NiGHTS engine from the team, leaving them about a year into the project with absolutely nothing to show for it.

At this point, a third complete rewrite of the game began, and this is essentially the Sonic Xtreme everybody remembers:

Several years ago, Chris Senn, one of the lead developers for the game, leaked everything he still had of the project from this build. he revealed in the process that this build of the game was never running on a Saturn, but rather was a PC build of the game by Ofer Alon, the main programmer. Senn had everything from this build except the actual game engine, but that meant not only all the tiles and arts and assets, but also the actual level files. In 2010, SaNIK, at Sonic Retro, built a model viewer for these levels after a few guys, including myself, cracked the level format from these files. His viewer worked with OpenGL and let you clip through the levels and explore them as non-playable representations of the levels themselves. Senn couldn't release the engine as he didn't have access to it, but for the most part, we had everything related to Sonic Xtreme except the game itself.

Senn released the following videos proving the engine build still existed, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzvS_beXtXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq_iPxQsbm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IOd0mQ-uXE

interestingly, the final video states "Saturn version," which is odd because the game is a PC executable. That didn't make sense... until now.

Back in 1995, Sega launched the Sega PC initiative, which would have coincided with Sonic Xtreme's development. The heart of their initiative was a partnership with Nvidia to produce nvidia's first GPU, the NV1. The NV1 is a 3D accelerator video card that, unlike modern video cards, rendered in Quads rather than 3-pointed polygons, much like the saturn. The NV1 also includes Sega Saturn controller ports, and an audio processor making it an all-in-one card for playing Sega PC games. Only 5 games support the card - Virtua Fighter Remix, Battle Arena Toshinden, NASCAR, Panzer Dragoon, and a special version of Descent.

The full source for the above versions of Sonic Xtreme have finally leaked and been built. They use the NV1 SDK, which wasn't available to normal consumers of the NV1, to build, which essentially turned your Windows 95 box into a Sega Saturn development kit. Inside the source for this leak are stubs for a Sega Saturn build option. The game looks a good 70% complete, and includes the source for a level editor. The engine will only run on a Windows 95 machine with a Diamond Edge NV1.

Senn had long conceded that all the "levels" shown were thrown together in 10 minutes for the purpose of getting some screenshots out to magazines, and exploring SaNIK's model viewer made that obvious, as the levels are meandering without purpose. However, given how relatively complete the engine is, and that the game includes the source to the level editor itself, it wouldn't be out of the possibility for fans to actually complete this game. Next steps would have been finalizing the engine, building some levels, and programming some bosses.

The person behind the leak doesn't have an NV1 card himself, but he's built the binaries and is sending them my way to test on my NV1 card. Hopefully I can post some videos of the game running locally at my place soon enough. This is pretty exciting and essentially the holy grail of the Sonic Community. FINALLY Sonic Xtreme has been unearthed.

For me personally, this is the long culmination of years and years worth of research and leads and dead ends. I have personally been looking for this release since about 1999 when I first started speaking to people at Sega and past programmers about this. I had actually doubted we'd ever get our hands on Ofer's engine, this is an incredibly exciting time and I'm pretty honored to be the guinea pig to test this stuff out to confirm if the build is working.

Very exciting day, just so happened to coincide with a day I had taken off from work.

Awesome post!!!!

 

[lostinblue]

I wrote a post on assembler and Sonic Retro urging people hanging on to not bug this guy to release the source or whatever, because his request makes sense for logistical reasons. Sonic fans have a habit of working themselves into a frenzy over prototypes, and we've lost prototypes in the past because people go nuts and get demanding. This stuff will eventually work itself out.

I do understand the reasoning but... Let's just say this is Resident Evil 1.5 all over again and I'll bet he knows that.

For Resident Evil 1.5 they wanted to fix it and polish it before they released it (the situation here), so they kept it a secret and were working on it (they still are) but in the process of opening the circle some guy got ahold of an incomplete compiled version of it and either for attention or because he's an idiot he wanted to sell it.

So and to avoid it, they released what they had, complete with bugs.


He probably doesn't want to distribute it to anyone else not because he fears source code will be leaked altogether, that's unlikely as the masses won't know what to do with it, but because temptation for someone to compile a incomplete build and letting a friend play it is too big, and leaks start off like that.


But I also don't think that's the best way. I'd release it as is, just from the get go (not because I want to play it that way, mind you) but because then it can't be leaked, whoever wants it has it, in some shape or form.

And then there's less need for ultra secrecy and he can work with a group of individuals without it being a time bomb before going wrong.

Working on it alone, albeit ensuing no leaks is also gruesome and it'll take way longer.

 

[Krejlooc]

The card that was linked does have internal headers for a "Port A" and "Port B". Of course, I don't know if those are Saturn ports, or some other port, without a manual for the card it's hard to tell.

Though, I did find this museum page, which has an image of a gamepad brakcet, which matches up to those pinouts on the NV1 card.

the controller ports are just pins running to the board, I built my own controller ports using some sega saturn controller extensions. I offered the pinout over on Retro.

 

[J@hranimo]

I'm sorry, but as a Sonic fan, Sonic Xtreme looks boring and dull as hell. I really don't like the fish eye lens they went with :/

Nah, the game is more than likely ass.

It's the sheer fact that this mysterious incomplete project might possibly will be uploaded for anyone to try. It's really neat lol.

 

[majik13]

It's just a fisheye lense. The game really doesn't share anything in common with Mario Galaxy in terms of gameplay.

yeah noticed that but it stil certainly does share some commanilties. even if its a camera trick or not. Thoug mario excutes in a different way and is obviously more robust. Even the early concept stuff shares some simlarities to other 3D Mario stuff. Thouhg Mario has done about every type of 3D level design.

 

[Celine]

I'll never understand why Yuji Naka didn't want to let them use the NiGHTS engine for this.

Think about it, an IP you are closely related are being developed by someone else who used your hard work without asking you.

 

[lostinblue]

Yeah it's quite ridiculous.

What is still more shocking to me concerning this game is that someone locked at the pitch video and thought that was a great idea to go ahead with.

True.

Truth is they were desperate. Yuji Naka/Sega Team weren't doing Sonic Saturn because they didn't want to, like someone said they were divas at this point and wanted to take a break from it. Granted, Sonic 16-bit pipeline had come and gone like a assembly line and they didn't want to turn into what they're now (sonic followed by sonic, followed by sonic).

That's actually fine (I love me some NiGHTS into dreams), but that meant Sega had to get someone to do a Sonic game for the Saturn, and they (Yuji Naka specially) clearly undermined that and wanted them to fail.

And fail they did, probably also a little due of that.

 

[Krejlooc]

Worked it all out and we should be back on track now, hopefully I'll have something to share later tonight.

Additionally - good news: It might be possible to get this running in software mode, so people without NV1s can play it.

 

[lostinblue]

yeah noticed that but it stil certainly does share some commanilties. even if its a camera trick or not. Thoug mario excutes in a different way and is obviously more robust. Even the early concept stuff shares some simlarities to other 3D Mario stuff. Thouhg Mario has done about every type of 3D level design.

Biggest difference is how varied Mario was designed to be. You could do plenty of games with the polished gameplay mechanics you can find on it, but albeit recurring they never swallow the core game.

I don't think that would be the case here at all, core might actually be more similar than people give it credit for (more likely due to limitations than anything else, the feeling and design ethos... not at all.

But I still think it has some potential. Certainly more than Sonic 3D Blast ever did, and in a way, it'll forever be hailed as the Sonic that Sega Saturn lost. I'd also be very interested in the rumoured Sonic Adventure for Sega Saturn work, some say it went way further than what was released as the overworld for Sonic Jam.

 

[petethepanda]

Holy shiiiiit. I just obsessed over Sonic beta stuff as a kid so this has been something I've wanted to finally leak for-frigging-ever.

 

[SegaShack]

Worked it all out and we should be back on track now, hopefully I'll have something to share later tonight.

Additionally - good news: It might be possible to get this running in software mode, so people without NV1s can play it.

I'm trying to keep my cool here...

 

[Cheetos is Pretty Awesome]

Man, that Amiga demo looks cool as fuck. I wish that had gotten produced into a real game too...

 

[KingJolly]

Ok everybodys reaction is throwing me for a loop. Is this like one of the best sonic games ever?

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

So what other holy grails of prototypes are out there? 1.5 was mentioned already. Ura Zelda?

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

So Yuji naka basically sabotaged this game?

 

[lostinblue]

Ok everybodys reaction is throwing me for a loop. Is this like one of the best sonic games ever?

Certainly one of the best Sonic games no one ever played.

Understand competition is not exactly great though.

 

[SegaShack]

Ok everybodys reaction is throwing me for a loop. Is this like one of the best sonic games ever?

It was supposed to be Sonic's big 3D debut, like how many big franchises transitioned over to 3D. It would have been the big game for the Saturn and was set to rival games like Crash Bandicoot and Mario 64. There was a lot riding on this game for Sega, and Sonic fans have wanted it for years, yet it has never come out, even in its unreleased form.

You have one employee who wanted to share everything with the world, and another who wouldn't allow the actual engine to be released.

Will the game be more than a disjointed mess though? No one knows, but it certainly has potential and has always captured my interest since I first heard about it 10 years ago.

 

[Bucket-o-roadkill]

I'm still shocked that Naka was so overprotective of the Nights engine. Big deal, they were all Sega employees, how can you get pissed that another team is using an engine that your game used?

Yeah agreed. It's a shame because the guy had a LOT to do with Sonic during the best times, but my god he has always come across as such a dick.

 

[SegaShack]

So what other holy grails of prototypes are out there? 1.5 was mentioned already. Ura Zelda?

Dinosaur Planet
Sabreman Stampede
Legend of Zelda 1 GBC Remake
Mario Land Virtual Boy

 

[sega4ever]

good stuff, now get on the shenmue saturn version.

 

[RagnarokX]

Think about it, an IP you are closely related are being developed by someone else who used your hard work without asking you.

But they did ask. Naka said no and threatened to quit if Sega went over his head. Naka just did not like American developers or working with them. He also insisted that no Americans be allowed to work on Sonic 3 despite the game being developed in the US and half the staff of Sonic 2 being American.

 

[Krejlooc]

But they did ask.

They actually didn't, according to Senn. The team was basically promised things by SoA that shouldn't have been promised. One of the things the team asked was for the NiGHTS engine, and SoA said "sure." The problem is SoA didn't get Sonic Team's permission, which is partially why Naka blew up the way he did.

But there's a good chance that, if they did ask, Naka would have said no anyways. Naka is by all accounts a dick, and slightly racist, too.

 

[FairFriend]

well, the levels were probably made just to show off the engine but I still think the concept was pretty good. Like the original Tomb Raider this Sonic seems to be one of those games which were being built around the limitations of the hardware of the era, specifically rendering based on quads instead of triangles and the absence of an analog stick.

 

[Celine]

But they did ask. Naka said no and threatened to quit if Sega went over his head. Naka just did not like American developers or working with them. He also insisted that no Americans be allowed to work on Sonic 3 despite the game being developed in the US and half the staff of Sonic 2 being American.

In the aftermath of the meeting, STI was left with little choice but to follow Nakayama's demands, dropping Ofer Alon's work. Making Chris Coffin lead programmer, Mike Wallis gathered his team and sequestered them away from the politics at the STI headquarters, so they could focus on the project in the hopes of having it done by Christmas. Knowing time was not on their side, Wallis turned to then-new CEO of Sega of America Bernie Stolar, asking him for the engine being used for NiGHTS into Dreams, the Sonic X-treme team in desperate need of the development tools within. In a few days, the engine arrived, and for the next two weeks the team became familiar with the engine, thankful they wouldn't have to spend precious time programing elements that were already fully working within NiGHTS. However, development using the engine was forced to cease, Yuji Naka having learned that his work had been taken without his consent. Threatening to quit, SEGA bent to Naka's wishes, and the X-treme team was forced to start back at square one.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_X-treme

I would be pissed too if the hard work of my team would be given to another developer without consent, regardless if the developement team works under the same company or not.

 

[NeOak]

They actually didn't, according to Senn. The team was basically promised things by SoA that shouldn't have been promised. One of the things the team asked was for the NiGHTS engine, and SoA said "sure." The problem is SoA didn't get Sonic Team's permission, which is partially why Naka blew up the way he did.

But there's a good chance that, if they did ask, Naka would have said no anyways. Naka is by all accounts a dick, and slightly racist, too.

But it would have avoided that lost year of work.

 

[Krejlooc]

well, the levels were probably made just to show off the engine but I still think the concept was pretty good. Like the original Tomb Raider this Sonic seems to be one of those games which were being built around the limitations of the hardware of the era, specifically rendering based on quads instead of triangles and the absence of an analog stick.

Every time they demoed the game, they demoed it with the NiGHTS analog pad. The game featured analog controls.

 

[Dragon1893]

I've waited all my life for this.

You said it. I still remember the crushing disappointment I felt when I realized that this wasn't happening and spending dozens of hours in sonic jam's 3D level dreaming of what could've been.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Dinosaur Planet
Sabreman Stampede
Legend of Zelda 1 GBC Remake
Mario Land Virtual Boy

Never even heard of Zelda GBC and Mario Land VB. Sounds interesting.

 

[Krejlooc]

You said it. I still remember the crushing disappointment I felt when I realized that this wasn't happening and spending dozens of hours in sonic jam's 3D level dreaming of what could've been.

Sonic Jam's Sonic World was the start of an entirely new engine from Sonic Team. What they included in Sonic Jam was preliminary work they were doing to the engine.

That engine ultimately wound up becoming Sonic Adventure.