This is a pretty weak argument for its quality - the game has been up for preorder for nearly a decade and has been marketed off and on for almost that long. It also released on multiple platforms, had a supplementary movie that went to theaters, a huge release date announcement event - for it to sell less after a decade of marketing would have been utterly embarassing.
Imagine if Valve had Half-Life 3 up for preorder ten years ago and periodically marketed it - how many units they'd sell regardless of quality. It'd almost be unfair to compare it to any other game with a normal release schedule.
That's true. People just can't grasp the fact that the game has sold well, received a great critical reception average 81 score on meta after 109 reviews, managed to place in Top 6 in GAF GOTY 2016. So they will do what they can do best in such, keep uttering the same line and delusion themselves that it is a fact.
I hate it when people use GAF GOTY as a barometer for what is considered good. GAF GOTY is a popularity contest and a numbers game. The more people play the higher its chances are in it being ranked higher. This is such a mediocre way of gauging things. It's not a matter of people having a vendetta against FFXV. It's about posing an argument on why the game is continually supported like this instead of having the staff work on something else.
Bringing up review scores/averages, awards, and sales is always silly in an argument about the quality of something. It's like using the way a hamburger looks to argue it's taste. It's cursory.
I think future games will be supported like this, if I'm not mistaken in one of the fiscal reports by SE it stated such. XV looks egregious because it's clearly a mess..I like to believe it the had a focused vision people wouldn't mind the updates. However, some better come to their senses that many games will be supported for a long time like this.. gotta squeeze them $$
What people in these threads will never understand is that Square is just using XV as a proving ground to transition itself into more modern systems. Online functionality is a huge part of gaming and it's never going away.
If GTA5, Metal Gear Solid, or Dark Souls can have online functionality and content update schedules, why not Final Fantasy? What is the benefit in being monolithic? There isn't one, and FFXV is sort of the proof in the pudding of that.
All of this talk about whether or not the game was bad is irrelevant -- the gaming media had its chance to pan the shit out of this game. They had every reason to, if people on Gaf are telling the story...but they didn't. It's sitting on a very respectable score despite its flaws and development woes.
Bringing up review scores/averages, awards, and sales is always silly in an argument about the quality of something. It's like using the way a hamburger looks to argue it's taste. It's cursory.
It'd be more like a burger joint getting good food critic scores and it winning awards and having a lot of people constantly order food. But... I guess your analogy works too? In your opinion how should one gauge quality of the game if not using awards, scores, and sales?
It'd be more like a burger joint getting good food critic scores and it winning awards and having a lot of people constantly order food. But... I guess your analogy works too? In your opinion how should one gauge quality of the game if not using awards, scores, and sales?
Maybe by... forming your own opinions and observations? I've just never found myself arguing the quality of something based on scores/awards as opposed to what it made me think or feel, myself. Maybe I'm just analytical/critical that way.
It'd be more like a burger joint getting good food critic scores and it winning awards and having a lot of people constantly order food. But... I guess your analogy works too? In your opinion how should one gauge quality of the game if not using awards, scores, and sales?
What people in these threads will never understand is that Square is just using XV as a proving ground to transition itself into more modern systems. Online functionality is a huge part of gaming and it's never going away.
If GTA5, Metal Gear Solid, or Dark Souls can have online functionality and content update schedules, why not Final Fantasy? What is the benefit in being monolithic? There isn't one, and FFXV is sort of the proof in the pudding of that.
All of this talk about whether or not the game was bad is irrelevant -- the gaming media had its chance to pan the shit out of this game. They had every reason to, if people on Gaf are telling the story...but they didn't. It's sitting on a very respectable score despite its flaws and development woes.
You are seeing SE trying to use an opportunity to release half-baked goods and patch the game after to prolong its life as a chance for them "test out" the transition into modern systems which entail online functionality? This is clear and cut them trying to patch a product with what little assets they cut out and make a product that should've been fully complete.
The examples you used to have online content have actual content for online baked in from the get go. It's consistently being worked on because the game was designed for it. FFXV wasn't. Idk how you can equate something like GTA and Dark Souls to this. I guess they're both open world so they're the same lmao. Persona 5 has more online functionality than this game and that game isn't even getting continued support.
This is a pretty weak argument for its quality - the game has been up for preorder for nearly a decade and has been marketed off and on for almost that long. It also released on multiple platforms, had a supplementary movie that went to theaters, a huge release date announcement event - for it to sell less after a decade of marketing would have been utterly embarassing.
Imagine if Valve had Half-Life 3 up for preorder ten years ago and periodically marketed it - how many units they'd sell regardless of quality. It'd almost be unfair to compare it to any other game with a normal release schedule.
Here we go with the 10 years of pre-orders again -_-
Do take a minute to think about what you just said. If we go by your logic, why hasn't The Last Guardian sold even 1 million copies considering the fact that it should have amassed a shit ton of pre-orders as it was like the most hyped game on PS3 along with Versus XIII.
Secondly, do you even think for a minute that these pre-orders were for Versus XIII, a game exclusive to PS3. Do you think Amazon (lets go with them as example) just automatically updated these so called 'pre-orders' which were god knows how many (must be millions if we go by your logic) to PS4 version of the game or they emailed each and every customer to inform them about the pre-order situation and then asked them to confirm either PS4 or Xbox One version.
Think about the ridiculous statement you are making here. 10 years of pre-orders stuff is bullshit and mostly thrown as a joke so I am not sure if you are being serious or just poking fun.
The movie helped it sell 6 million? Can you explain how this happened when it flopped on release in Japan and didn't catch much attention in North America. Heck people here on GAF were ready to label the game as flop based on the performance of the movie and suddenly the game is hit and you go back and state the movie helped sell more copies of the game.
The marketing helped it sell 6 million? Yes. Games are sold based on marketing and it is not like FFXV is the exception to the rule here.
My point with the sales is to show that the game has been a success for SE hence they decided to keep a stronger focus on it for post-launch support. Had it been a failure, you can bet that SE would have just moved on.
IMO, I'd rather have them planning the Updates in advance and following their own plans. Asking for feedback from players (Lets be honest, we don't know what we want) is not a good idea.
Feel free to disagree with me, but the Duscae gameplay, while basic and far from perfect, could have been great if it was given more time. But "we" complained about it and they changed it for something that is IMO waaay too simplified.
Maybe by... forming your own opinions and observations? I've just never found myself arguing the quality of something based on scores/awards as opposed to what it made me think or feel, myself. Maybe I'm just analytical/critical that way.
And he feels it is a quality game due to his own observations and opinions?
So...what are you even disputing?
Edit: Apologies if it seems like I am being obtuse. I'm not. I am just having a hard time tracking your argument here. What is it exactly you are trying to convey? That you don't feel the same way? That's it's objectively bad in your eyes? That you don't like the post-launch support due to your own feelings on the game? To inform you don't care about it and you think others shouldn't as well? I want to understand what your end goal is here. What's the main point you're trying to get across?
You are seeing SE trying to use an opportunity to release half-baked goods and patch the game after to prolong its life as a chance for them "test out" the transition into modern systems which entail online functionality? This is clear and cut them trying to patch a product with what little assets they cut out and make a product that should've been fully complete.
Yes? The product is already complete. It already sold well. And the whole point of XV was to bring Final Fantasy up to the level of the current big name WRPGs that have eclipsed it throughout the years due to Japan's reluctance to advance its tech in RPGs.
What is the clear cut assumption here? If what you say is true, why are they still patching the game?
The examples you used to have online content have actual content for online baked in from the get go. It's consistently being worked on because the game was designed for it. FFXV wasn't. Idk how you can equate something like GTA and Dark Souls to this. I guess they're both open world so they're the same lmao. Persona 5 has more online functionality than this game and that game isn't even getting continued support.
I really don't see what this has to do with anything. GTA and MGS were not IPs that started with any sort of online functionality for multiple big entries, until they made the decision to.
GTA San Andreas and GTAIV are both GTA games, and one has online functionality. I didn't bother with GTAIV's online mode because that isn't what I bought the game for. But I didn't complain about it having an online mode. FFXV is adding its support as it goes, and it's completely free. What is the issue here? I really am having trouble understanding.
You are seeing SE trying to use an opportunity to release half-baked goods and patch the game after to prolong its life as a chance for them "test out" the transition into modern systems which entail online functionality? This is clear and cut them trying to patch a product with what little assets they cut out and make a product that should've been fully complete.
The examples you used to have online content have actual content for online baked in from the get go. It's consistently being worked on because the game was designed for it. FFXV wasn't. Idk how you can equate something like GTA and Dark Souls to this. I guess they're both open world so they're the same lmao. Persona 5 has more online functionality than this game and that game isn't even getting continued support.
FF XV is perfectly playable game from start to finish. There is no beta version. This was the game SE and Tabata wanted to release. Everything released since has been designed to further improved the game BASED on fan feedback. SE is actually listening to fans about how to improve a FF (online entries notwithstanding)
If you want to see why this is important: FF Type 0 had far worse problems and boy were they never addressed.
They didn't. Any of it. We literally needed one guy on reddit to yell "HEY GUYS MAYBE PITIOSS EXPLAINS SOME STUFF!!" and it's still not clear if that is canon or fanmade canon.
Yes? The product is already complete. It already sold well. And the whole point of XV was to bring Final Fantasy up to the level of the current big name WRPGs that have eclipsed it throughout the years due to Japan's reluctance to advance its tech in RPGs.
I already answered why they are still patching. In fact it was one of my first few posts. Take a gander as to why I am discussing in this thread still.
I really don't see what this has to do with anything. GTA and MGS were not IPs that started with any sort of online functionality for multiple big entries, until they made the decision to.
GTA San Andreas and GTAIV are both GTA games, and one has online functionality. I didn't bother with GTAIV's online mode because that isn't what I bought the game for. But I didn't complain about it having an online mode. FFXV is adding its support as it goes, and it's completely free. What is the issue here? I really am having trouble understanding.
These were the examples listed. You tell me why it's relevant lol. I understand that GTA didn't start with online. Neither did MGS. How is that relevant here? We're not talking about an entry that has online. We're talking about one that doesn't. And to your point about them experimenting having online. This is a poor game to do it. I guess also SE didn't learn anything with FF11 or FF14 lol. Adding in support doesn't = online. Your argument is poor and all over the place. Unsurprisingly.
FF XV is perfectly playable game from start to finish. There is no beta version. This was the game SE and Tabata wanted to release. Everything released since has been designed to further improved the game BASED on fan feedback. SE is actually listening to fans about how to improve a FF (online entries notwithstanding)
If you want to see why this is important: FF Type 0 had far worse problems and boy were they never addressed.
I'd like to ask what people will be asking for when the survey comes, what constructive feedback are you going to give to the team?
Myself, like I hinted at above, I'd like to see:
- Another system added for items that implements either a cooldown on items or make a separate inventory where you can only take a limited number of items from your inventory into any single battle.
- A Datalog/Crimson Codex/Rubicus of sorts in the game that gives character bios, history of the world, among other things. Something very much like the Rubicus from Type-0.
- Two cutscenes added to the game, one for the beginning explaining the history of the world, the gods, the starscourge. The stuff that is explained in the game but that is clearly not in players faces enough. And one cutscene showing
Ardyn's fall and his pact with Ifrit.
- A way to play the game with the DLC fully implemented into the main game, so while playing the game it will transition seamlessly into the DLC without menus or anything of the like.
- Instead of
two separate paths in Chapter 13, fully implement it into the senario so when Noctis falls down the shaft, Verse 2 will start and when it ends it will pick back up where Noctis wakes up in front of Ravus.
Would be cool if they can add the above. I think those few things would tremendously improve the game.
I am really happy to see some more content for FFXV, I would like them to add some of the story beats from kingsglaives into the game for chapter 2 but good on Square for making sure the season pass holders are happy. What I don't understand is why people in this thread calling FFXV bad? This thread should be about what people want to see from FFXV not people trying shit on it because they
disliked parts of the original game and jumping through hoops trying to justify why the think its terrible.
So have all the additional cutscenes to explain the story better been patched in yet? Genuine question, I want to replay the game once the story is complete.
I thoroughly enjoyed FFXV and if I ever get to borrow the game from my friend again, I'd be happy to play through the game again once all the DLC is completed. Hope they continue to improve the game.
Theres the game Nomura wants to make but failed to deliver and what Tabata wanted to make. These are just some of The Versus rumors that have yet to be verified. Personally a game with a drug selling main character, promotion of self injurious behavior to contact 'spirits', your bros being killed, and dealing with a Caius 2.0 villain is far from an improvement.
Honestly all this talk about people wanting the dev team to move on confuses me. If we didn't like what they did with XV, wouldn't it be preferred that the team continues to busy themselves with updates while better teams at Square Enix work on better games?
I'd like to ask what people will be asking for when the survey comes, what constructive feedback are you going to give to the team?
Myself, like I hinted at above, I'd like to see:
- Another system added for items that implements either a cooldown on items or make a separate inventory where you can only take a limited number of items from your inventory into any single battle.
- A Datalog/Crimson Codex/Rubicus of sorts in the game that gives character bios, history of the world, among other things. Something very much like the Rubicus from Type-0.
- Two cutscenes added to the game, one for the beginning explaining the history of the world, the gods, the starscourge. The stuff that is explained in the game but that is clearly not in players faces enough. And one cutscene showing
Ardyn's fall and his pact with Ifrit.
- A way to play the game with the DLC fully implemented into the main game, so while playing the game it will transition seamlessly into the DLC without menus or anything of the like.
- Instead of
two separate paths in Chapter 13, fully implement it into the senario so when Noctis falls down the shaft, Verse 2 will start and when it ends it will pick back up where Noctis wakes up in front of Ravus.
Totally agree with these 100%. Just having the Kingsglaive opening would be fine since it sets up the world fairly well. I also like to see KG mobs in the game as well (and we know the Cerberus model already exists).
Honestly all this talk about people wanting the dev team to move on confuses me. If we didn't like what they did with XV, wouldn't it be preferred that the team continues to busy themselves with updates while better teams at Square Enix work on better games?
The criticism isn't specifucally to put lead staff* making core decisions on other games - those games have leads and directors of their own already - but it takes more than those people to make these patches and DLC packs. Those people that are in the trenches, so to speak, could be helping out on other projects that almost have far more interest.
* = I'd be happy to never see Tabata direct anything again.
1. They aren't as "mutually exclusive" as you seem to think, and
2. Okay then what is? Critic scores? Word of mouth? Your own opinion? If we're gonna go by any usual indication of how good the game is...the game reviewed well and aside from a few reviewers fiercely opposed to its direction, the reception of the game was mostly positive, and the tone optimistic.
These were the examples listed. You tell me why it's relevant lol. I understand that GTA didn't start with online. Neither did MGS. How is that relevant here? We're not talking about an entry that has online. We're talking about one that doesn't. And to your point about them experimenting having online. This is a poor game to do it. I guess also SE didn't learn anything with FF11 or FF14 lol. Adding in support doesn't = online. Your argument is poor and all over the place. Unsurprisingly.
This works for a game like GTA V/Online. It doesn't work for a game like this. Don't eat into their explanation when it's really an excuse and a ploy. You shouldn't be believing everything they say at face value.
Other games do this by having their game be... you know... good. lol? Also, it's expected that patches and fixes happen but the degree of stuff they're adding makes you question things. Companies are not your friend.
How is it wrong for Final Fantasy XV to implement completely optional online functionality, but okay for MGS or GTA to do the same thing? Is it because XV is bad?
Whether or not it's a "poor game to do it" in has nothing to do with anything but your own opinion. I'm not really forming an argument as much as i'm just making sure you're aware of that. But people who shit over these types of threads typically aren't. Unsurprisingly.
And what the hell am i supposed to be questioning here? Is Square trying to botnet my PS4? Poison my water? Are proceedings from XV's DLC going towards increasing chemtrail activity or some shit? Don't keep us in the dark here man!
"In my own opinion, I disagree with you." -- That's probably what you should say. Especially when "delusional" in this sense is, again, based on only your own prejudice.
I am really happy to see some more content for FFXV, I would like them to add some of the story beats from kingsglaives into the game for chapter 2 but good on Square for making sure the season pass holders are happy. What I don't understand is why people in this thread calling FFXV bad? This thread should be about what people want to see from FFXV not people trying shit on it because they disliked parts of the original game and jumping through hoops trying to justify why the think its terrible.
I am really happy to see some more content for FFXV, I would like them to add some of the story beats from kingsglaives into the game for chapter 2 but good on Square for making sure the season pass holders are happy. What I don't understand is why people in this thread calling FFXV bad? This thread should be about what people want to see from FFXV not people trying shit on it because they
disliked parts of the original game and jumping through hoops trying to justify why the think its terrible.
Very well said. Dislike the game all you want but when SE is taking fan feedback to improve the game from people who actually own the game, offering realistic ideas in the thread is much more fun to discuss.
In the spirit of FFxII I would love to see a Bestiary in the same style that fills in lore in the same fashion as XII (i.e. By killing mobs)
Honestly I think Line of Lucis or Ifrit's Betrayal are way more interesting, since it's stuff that's difficult to infer from what was already presented. World of Ruin on the other hand, it's kinda self-explanatory what's going down.
Also I may be in the minority on this but I don't really want much Ardyn stuff added. I think treading too far down that path would take away so much of the mystique around him.
My only suggestion to them would be to make the main cast female. I still would never touch this game ever again, but i'd like it if they made a female version of each of the main guys.
Welcome to almost every XIII-related thread for the past 9 years or so? Seriously, this kind of reaction to a FF game isn't unprecedented in any way, and some of the people that driveby shitpost in those threads are also in here praising XV. The only thing I can really say is, welcome to the club.
