Zoe
Member
The Department of Labor wouldn't care.
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Fired for using personal days?
- Thread starter TaterTots
- Start date
The Department of Labor wouldn't care.
andythinkpad
Member
Well, its usually not the best idea to take another day off after taking days off like that unless there's some reason for it like your sick or something but I don't see why you should've gotten fired honestly. I would say its BS but it sounds like a shitty job anyway. You'd probably be better just moving on and getting a new job.
DominusLeges
Member
SoulUnison
Banned
When I worked at a call center my car was broken into in the parking lot and when I asked for the rest of the day off so I could deal with the police and not leave my car full of valuables sitting out with a broken window and a sky that looked like it might rain I was looked at as if I'd just dropped my pants and voided on the carpet.
Zoe
Member
They wouldn't care. And even if they did, OP didn't tell them it was an emergency after he had already been fired.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'm not being down on service jobs, I'm saying that it's not wise to expect loyalty and understanding from them.
OP seems like a very introspective fellow who doesn't enjoy sharing information; I'm going to guess he didn't tell anyone at his job or his gf that he was in danger of being evicted. Taking a personal day, in a vacuum, is not normally a thing you get fired for, no, but padding a vacation with sick/personal days (when they might have been planning for OP to show up and cover for someone else being on vacation) unannounced is a big mistake. Especially if you're in a probation period less than one month removed.
As this thread proves, context matters. Trying to explain that your personal day was an actual emergency after the fact is missing the point, you should have put that information out up front to your supervisor.
CuckFupertino
Banned
Sorry you lost your job.
A couple of points:
1. What were the stipulations of your "final" for the bad surveys? Was one of them no further call outs? Were these stipulations made known to you? Is there accessible documentation?
2. What was the attendance policy? Some places use a "point" system where unplanned absences accrue points, and at a certain threshold consequences are rendered.
3. Did you try to communicate with your supervisor that you would be out unexpectedly that day? I let my boss know before I even call out sick, with a simple text message. He always appreciates the notice even though we both know it's probably unnecessary.
4. Have you tried to get in touch with the company's HR department to discuss your termination?
Blaming the company at this point is easy. Unless you plan on filing a lawsuit, the company isn't going to care. Even if they're 100% at fault, try to consider which of your actions could have influenced the outcome.
A couple of points:
1. What were the stipulations of your "final" for the bad surveys? Was one of them no further call outs? Were these stipulations made known to you? Is there accessible documentation?
2. What was the attendance policy? Some places use a "point" system where unplanned absences accrue points, and at a certain threshold consequences are rendered.
3. Did you try to communicate with your supervisor that you would be out unexpectedly that day? I let my boss know before I even call out sick, with a simple text message. He always appreciates the notice even though we both know it's probably unnecessary.
4. Have you tried to get in touch with the company's HR department to discuss your termination?
Blaming the company at this point is easy. Unless you plan on filing a lawsuit, the company isn't going to care. Even if they're 100% at fault, try to consider which of your actions could have influenced the outcome.
andythinkpad
Member
You dun goofed and must be young. Its ok this is a learning experience.
Frozenprince
Banned
Being a supervisor in manufacturing a lot of people assume personal days are a get out of jail free card, but unfortunately that is not the case. These are awarded in most cases for years of service or in some cases exceptional attendance. For example some companies I've worked for if you go 4 months with no tardies , call outs etc you earn one personal day. Total 3 a year. Without advanced approval of a personal day you are subject to the companies attendance policy. If you call out at my company and say you want to use a personal day without notice or prior approval it just ensures you are paid for the day. Any repercussions resulting from the call out still apply. Sick days differ than personal days due to you only need to give one shifts notice to avoid points etc. that is so we got time to replace labor for the day.
For the most part as long as you are a consistent worker who doesn't try to abuse the situation I would let it slide but there is one circumstance i never let it slide and that is following or preceding a vacation.
For the most part as long as you are a consistent worker who doesn't try to abuse the situation I would let it slide but there is one circumstance i never let it slide and that is following or preceding a vacation.
Daffy Duck
Member
Dude, by all accounts you messed up royally!
You shouldve just phoned in sick or something, or at the very least phoned your employer, spoke with your boss, explained the eviction issue (if true) and requested an additional day to sort it out. Theres no point saying your ashamed about it and didnt want to tell anyone, if the company has a notification period for taking annual leave then your out of luck and shouldve just told your boss straight.
I mean how exactly did you think it would look being off for a few days then taking another day at the end.....
Your excuse of days expiring is nonsense too, just book them up before the deadline (Im aure you mentioned two months time) so just book any random days off.
Question: are personal days the equivalent of holiday in the UK?
You shouldve just phoned in sick or something, or at the very least phoned your employer, spoke with your boss, explained the eviction issue (if true) and requested an additional day to sort it out. Theres no point saying your ashamed about it and didnt want to tell anyone, if the company has a notification period for taking annual leave then your out of luck and shouldve just told your boss straight.
I mean how exactly did you think it would look being off for a few days then taking another day at the end.....
Your excuse of days expiring is nonsense too, just book them up before the deadline (Im aure you mentioned two months time) so just book any random days off.
Question: are personal days the equivalent of holiday in the UK?
n64coder
Member
It seems that OP is not a good communicator. If he has to take a day off at the last minute because of an eviction notice, it's poor planning on his part. Why didn't he deal with the eviction notice on his previous days off? Or just go to work and then deal with the notice when he gets home. It's not like he was going to be out of his place that day.
Good luck OP on finding a new job quickly. Hope you can use your experience from this job to improve yourself for the next one.
SecretMoblin
Member
There is no paid holiday entitlement in the US like in the UK, as you probably know.
Some companies draw a distinction between "vacation" time, personal days (which are often but not always thought of as one-offs), and sick leave, any of which can be paid or not paid per the individual company's policy. Some companies combine personal days/vacation into a single category. Many companies also offer certain holidays (typically federal holidays like Christmas, Memorial Day, or Labor Day) as paid time off that doesn't count against the other categories. It's entirely the company's discretion.
SomedayTheFire
Member
America seems like the wild fucking West when it comes to jobs.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Aye! I just had this happen. Not the firing part, but I took a five day vacation. Came back three days in to find a "3 days to pay rent or vacate" notice on my door. Got really confused since the lady who signed the vacate notice is also the lady who signed my receipt for the rent I paid... Just before I left for vacation. Then I called out of work (this is my second day) because some asshole cousin gave everyone the flu at a family reunion.
Back to your story. That is extremely shitty, but I don't think there is anything you can do other than try to get in contact with a supervisor to plead your case for calling out. Most places don't care and from what I've heard on Gaf call centers are the worst.
My job has vacation, personal, and sick hours. Vacation can be used down to the minutes. Personal has to be taken as actual shifts, so 8 or 4 hours at a time. Sick is up to you. We don't have holidays since we're only closed two days out of the year.
Back to your story. That is extremely shitty, but I don't think there is anything you can do other than try to get in contact with a supervisor to plead your case for calling out. Most places don't care and from what I've heard on Gaf call centers are the worst.
My job has vacation, personal, and sick hours. Vacation can be used down to the minutes. Personal has to be taken as actual shifts, so 8 or 4 hours at a time. Sick is up to you. We don't have holidays since we're only closed two days out of the year.
That'd be the standard in most, if not all major industrialised countries with major labour rights. If I tried to take a personal day off straight after my planned holidays I'd probably receive a formal warning. Or at the very least a verbal warning from my manager.
Jzero
Member
You could have ended it here
It truly is quite surreal when you read it from outside perspectives. We get holiday and are told we have to use it. Nobody ever complained about it.
Greedings
Member
Whhaaat? I didn't know that. What the fuck?!
I'm in Germany, and I have 30 days/year. I never even use them all because 30 days seems like a ridiculous amount. Unfortunately I don't get paid if I don't take them, I just lose them.
If you don't have a right to paid holiday, how do you take time off work?
NinjaBoiX
Member
It's my understanding that personal days are separate from holidays correct?
As in, you're given your allotted holiday days then have a separate pool of personal days for when you're sick or have a family emergency or whatever.
If thats the case and you just threw in a load of sickness/emergency time off days on a whim because you felt entitled to then you deserved to get fired.
If not and they work the same as holidays then it's a bit more tricky, and company policy, etc would come into play. But it sounds like you got screwed over if they were holiday days.
As in, you're given your allotted holiday days then have a separate pool of personal days for when you're sick or have a family emergency or whatever.
If thats the case and you just threw in a load of sickness/emergency time off days on a whim because you felt entitled to then you deserved to get fired.
If not and they work the same as holidays then it's a bit more tricky, and company policy, etc would come into play. But it sounds like you got screwed over if they were holiday days.
The amount of hoops people expect you to jump through to take a day off is insane sometimes. It isnt unreasonable to need a personal day now and then. Sometimes you have to be as vague as possible. If I call in for a mental health day Im not going to straight up tell my boss the issues going on in my life and how dealing with a customer that day will probably make me curse them out, Ill just say Im sick. And if I say Im sick hell tell me to take a nap and call him back closer to my shift because he is certain Ill feel better by then. :/
A lot of jobs treat you like shit so I dont get this constant In defense of the company... types of posts.
A lot of jobs treat you like shit so I dont get this constant In defense of the company... types of posts.
ClosingADoor
Member
Your boss is going to complain if you take a day off with no notice, especially after already taking a few days off. This would be no different here in Europe.
Straight up fired would not be possible, but you at least get talked to about it.
It's crazy when I hear about how paid vacation works in the US. I'm from the UK and am currently constantly getting emails practically begging me to take time off between now and Xmas as I can only carry five days over to next year.
Then I read about people from the US being pressured into never actually taking their paid vacation. I truly don't get it.
Here in Australia you can use personal days when you're sick or don't feel well and you don't even need a medical cert unless you use three personal days or more in a row.
Sounds kinda ridiculous that you'd have to tell them before the actual day, since it's not like you're using annual leave but a personal day, which should be a seperate pool of leave, which should be specifically for unexpected leave that one can't schedule like getting sick.
Using one right after a holiday doesn't strike me as unusual too since people can certainly get sick while on holidays. In America do they just expect sick people to come into work and then make the rest of the office sick?
Sounds kinda ridiculous that you'd have to tell them before the actual day, since it's not like you're using annual leave but a personal day, which should be a seperate pool of leave, which should be specifically for unexpected leave that one can't schedule like getting sick.
Using one right after a holiday doesn't strike me as unusual too since people can certainly get sick while on holidays. In America do they just expect sick people to come into work and then make the rest of the office sick?
Our official company policy is if you are sick, dont come in.
Come in or youre fired.
Me too, but you should really work on life/balance if 30 days of free time are too much for you. The hell? Take your vacation.
Dandy Lyin
Member
I work for a small business and I've been scolded for coming in to work when I had a cold because I could get everyone else sick... Yet, when a co-worker calls in sick with a cold, my boss rolls her eyes and acts like she should just suck it up.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
It could be the frequency of which they do it. Random 1 off days scattered around a month is kind of weird compared to 2-3 days every few months.
My job has unlimited time off (vacation, sick, personal, whatever) so long as we don't abuse it.
So I think everyone has driven the point home about personal days and etc. But I don't think anyone is talking about what equipment they want you to turn in. You either need to reach your supervisor or actually go into your jobsite to 'turn in' whatever equipment they are referring to. If not expect to be sent to collections/charged for whatever it is they want back from you.
I would just accept the jobloss at this point, shitty management, polices, surveys, 500ish co-workers, high turnover. Be glad. But don't let yourself get screwed over by not following up on this equipment issue.
Seriously if you can't get them to answer their phone, go to the job and wait till you can speak with your supervisor about this equipment issue.
I would just accept the jobloss at this point, shitty management, polices, surveys, 500ish co-workers, high turnover. Be glad. But don't let yourself get screwed over by not following up on this equipment issue.
Seriously if you can't get them to answer their phone, go to the job and wait till you can speak with your supervisor about this equipment issue.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
American work culture seems terrible. In the UK I get 25 days holiday and if im sick im sick. dont come in. Of course if you take the piss you will be brought up on it.
Also if i have to leave early for some reason no one even questions it. That part certainly isnt the same i every company (neither is the sick part but we should all get some form of sick leave at the very least). But in general its way better here.
Also if i have to leave early for some reason no one even questions it. That part certainly isnt the same i every company (neither is the sick part but we should all get some form of sick leave at the very least). But in general its way better here.
ZackieChan
Member
Many jobs have them, they're just not mandated by the federal government. It's left up to the state or employer.
Ron Mexico
Member
While I don't disagree with a lot of the meta commentary about the work culture, I think this ones a bit more straightforward:
OP mentioned both paid and unpaid time off and being in the position under a year. Safe bet their time off is granted on an accrual basis (each month you "earn" 1/12 of your total for the year) and OP was taking time off faster than it was being accrued.
Next, there's no way on earth those 2 surveys went from zero performance management to a final. Any HR worth their salts would rip that policy to shreds. Note: HR isn't there to hold your hand, they're there to prevent the company from being sued. There was definitely a pattern of progressive discipline missing here-- my bet is also the attendance policy for reasons above.
Ultimately going to echo some others and say take this one on the chin and use it as a learning experience. Wouldn't be terribly shocked if the company tries to dispute the unemployment claim though.
OP mentioned both paid and unpaid time off and being in the position under a year. Safe bet their time off is granted on an accrual basis (each month you "earn" 1/12 of your total for the year) and OP was taking time off faster than it was being accrued.
Next, there's no way on earth those 2 surveys went from zero performance management to a final. Any HR worth their salts would rip that policy to shreds. Note: HR isn't there to hold your hand, they're there to prevent the company from being sued. There was definitely a pattern of progressive discipline missing here-- my bet is also the attendance policy for reasons above.
Ultimately going to echo some others and say take this one on the chin and use it as a learning experience. Wouldn't be terribly shocked if the company tries to dispute the unemployment claim though.
That's just hustling backwards.
Spend thousands of $ and months of your time all to argue for an outcome that neither the OP or the employer want? Even if eventually it's decided that they have to give him his job back, does that count as a win?
My advice is that every single second you spend trying to fight this is a second that would have been better spent trying to better your situation in other ways.
Yep, why I'd never get a job over in America I'll stick to having a decent number of holidays and work life balance.
family_guy
Member
Call centers don't play. I had to have a 15 minute talk with my boss because I came back 5 minutes late from my lunch break. I did that job for 3 months before quitting. I can't imagine how people spend years there. That takes a strong mental will.
This describes my only experience with time designated "personal days". My dad, when I was growing up, had vacation, personal and sick. Vacation was scheduled in advance. Sick was "oh shit I'm sick and literally can't or shouldn't be working" and personal was a limited number of days per year you could call in for any reason at the drop of a hat - because sometimes life happens and it isn't that you can't work because you got sick, but you really need to be somewhere else.
Of course my dad was a factory worker in an, at the time, strong union....
AdventureRacing
Member
I work in a hospital in Australia and like most hospitals you'd damn near have to kill someone to get fired. Having said that it's pretty frowned upon to take leave before or after a holiday/weekend and I think they often do ask for a medical certificate. Even though I'm full time and practically can't be fired I'd still think twice about doing that.
If you have a job where you know your employment is on shaky ground and they can and will fire you over something like this you probably ought to play it safe.
I'm definitely glad to live in a country with much better employee rights though.
Where I work (a Fortune 100 company with offices around the world) Personal days are defined as one-off occurrences and separate than sick days. Like taking off for a sick child, close family member emergencies we have to call in just like a sick day and inform management. My wife teaches and her personal time is banked and can be used for pretty much anything as long as she calls it in (she doesnt get formal vacation time).
As far as the OP, kinda like I mention above, each organization will have a different definition of what personal time is defined and how it can be used. I have a blended 10 days of sick/personal time and expires annually the environment here is you only take what is needed i.e.. most people do not take the full 10 days just to take them
mhayes86
Member
Depends on the job. At my retail jobs, my vacation time accrued at a laughable rate, and the store was closed on holidays, so you either took time off with no pay, and didn't get paid for national holidays. At my current job (system engineer), my vacation accrues a lot better to get paid time off, and I get paid national holidays off as well.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
OP admitted to have two bad surveys for their work and then that they called the day coming back to take another day. Theyre not winning the case.