Support NeoGAF

[SgtCobra]

That's not how neogaf works. If you're accused, you're guilty...duh.

Nah that's not how it works here but it certainly seems that way reading some replies. This is a very serious accusation and it should be treated very seriously, by us and the parties that are involved. I agree that the statement seems to be rushed somewhat but we don't exactly know what happened today for ND to come to that conclusion. Maybe they're trying to cover it up, perhaps Sony HR is but I see some people here taking David's word as the complete and definitive truth.
I do think though that this should be investigated further.

 

[timberger]

This is extremely, incredibly weaselly language.

Of course it's working on it's intended audience. The kind of people disinclined to take allegations of sexual misconduct seriously, always demanding "receipts", but absolutely willing to believe their favourite corporation can do no wrong.

Yeah, people not jumping to conclusions without seeing some kind of evidence first are just the worst.

 

[score01]

This is extremely, incredibly weaselly language.

Of course it's working on it's intended audience. The kind of people disinclined to take allegations of sexual misconduct seriously, always demanding "receipts", but absolutely willing to believe their favourite corporation can do no wrong.

I think it would be good if David responds to this and confirm that he officially complained about the harassment. Companies have to record that stuff by law don’t they?

It’s a really shitty thing that happened to him and stuff like this should not be tolerated in the work place.

 

[8bit]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Oh do fuck off.

 

[Wireframe]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

WOW

 

[Varg]

*edit . Seems like the thread was unlocked .

 

[kliklik]

Although this sounds terrible, I'd say that unless you have evidence (at the very least that you made an HR complaint!) or you're sure that you'll be believed (other accusers have come forward or you're well known and respected), you're better off not going public with accusations of sexual harassment. It can seriously hurt your career. Honestly, even if you have all the proof in the world and you take it to court and win, that very publicity can hurt your career.

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

My friend was sexually harassed by a gay man at work, who was constantly badgering to allow him to perform fellatio on him, talking about his body, etc.

My friend told me he felt helpless. He couldn't report it to his boss or he'd be laughed at for not 'dealing with it like a man', and even though he was stronger than the guy, he couldn't punch him because they were at work. The guy wouldn't stop. My friend experienced anxiety, couldn't sleep at night, and fell into depression. He eventually left the job. He told me he now understands why women act the way they do when they've been harassed. He didn't get it before he himself was. I sincerely hope you don't have to go through that before you get it.

 

[Double Donut]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Fuck off.

 

[STEaMkb]

nm

 

[Rmagnus]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

You are a disgusting being... To even imagine such a thought speaks volumes of you.

 

[DanWensing]

Although this sounds terrible, I'd say that unless you have evidence (at the very least that you made an HR complaint!) or you're sure that you'll be believed (other accusers have come forward or you're well known and respected), you're better off not going public with accusations of sexual harassment. It can seriously hurt your career. Honestly, even if you have all the proof in the world and you take it to court and win, that very publicity can hurt your career.



My friend was sexually harassed by a gay man at work, who was constantly badgering to allow him to perform fellatio on him, talking about his body, etc.

My friend told me he felt helpless. He couldn't report it to his boss or he'd be laughed at for not 'dealing with it like a man', and even though he was stronger than the guy, he couldn't punch him because they were at work. The guy wouldn't stop. My friend experienced anxiety, couldn't sleep at night, and fell into depression. He eventually left the job. He told me he now understands why women act the way they do when they've been harassed. He didn't get it before he himself was. I sincerely hope you don't have to go through that before you get it.

Yep, thinking this way it's actually a problem. I think my way of dealing with things maybe it's not like every one does.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I mean he’s been without job for a while. What is there to loose. Also do we know what specific allegations were? One person’s “Hello” could be another’s sexual harassment. Once again I’m not saying it’s the case, but it’s a bit more complex than what people are making it out to be.

NO

That's not how it fucking works

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

....

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Please stop.

 

[Kaako]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Use all the replies you get hitting you over the head as a learning experience. Try to understand why your current mentality is fucked up on a deeper level. Become better and do better.

 

[Liliana Eileen]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Welp.

 

[kliklik]

Yep, thinking this way it's actually a problem. I think my way of dealing with things maybe it's not like every one does.

I think you missed the point. You don't realise how hard it is to deal with sexual harassment in the workplace mano-a-mano until you're actually put in that position. You can't simply punch the guy like you could in a bar.

 

[DrKelpo]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

what the actual fuck...

 

[Ctlead]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

What the hell does mimiming mean?

 

[CaviarMeths]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Christ, I hope you aren't a parent. What a dumbfuck thing to say to someone who has been victimized.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

This shit is so fucking transparent and exactly why men don't come forward with sexual harassment and assault claims. This hypermasculinity shit is a disease. This is a very disgusting post.

 

[Mr. X]

Gaming and Off Topic are night and day on these topics.

 

[Alucrid]

What the hell does mimiming mean?

i think he's saying that the dude did all of this just for the attention. "mimiming" = me me me.

 

[DanWensing]

I think you missed the point. You don't realise how hard it is to deal with sexual harassment in the workplace mano-a-mano until you actually put in that position. You can't simply punch the guy like you could in a bar.

Yep. I totally missed it. Actually it's something that you can't deal with force, like you related above. I didn't think of the complications that you can have with it. I thought for a moment and I don't know how I would behave if it happened to myself.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Would you say the same thing to Terry Crews? I'm going to put your ignorance down to immaturity, at least I hope that's what it is.

 

[DrKelpo]

i think he's saying that the dude did all of this just for the attention. "mimiming" = me me me.

that's what he meant

 

[DanWensing]

i think he's saying that the dude did all of this just for the attention. "mimiming" = me me me.

"Minimi" is like a baby crying when they want attention.

 

[Rmagnus]

Yep. I totally missed it. Actually it's something that you can't deal with force, like you related above. I didn't think of the complications that you can have with it. I thought for a moment and I don't know how I would behave if it happened to myself.

Make take a minute to think before you hit the post button.

 

[kliklik]

Yep. I totally missed it. Actually it's something that you can't deal with force, like you related above. I didn't think of the complications that you can have with it. I thought for a moment and I don't know how I would behave if it happened to myself.

Exactly. And add to that people with the attitude you originally expressed who are your boss or in HR. Wouldn't you feel hesitant about going to them to report it if you thought they might have the opinion you originally expressed? They would think less of you, see you as weak for coming to them about it.

That's why the opinion you originally expressed is harmful. It allows sexual harassers to perpetuate their abuse.

 

[kmax]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Holy shit.

 

[Dark_castle]

Ok, he is a man, don't seems fragile at all, and had a sexual harassment by another man. I mean, come on dude, you need to be able to defend yourself. At least for this kind of things. It's just embarrassing.
I'm with ND here, we don't know the level of this harassment. Could have been nothing so serious and the guys it's just mimiming.

Yeah no, man can definitely be sexually harassed regardless of his physical capabilities.

 

[Nibel]

Gaming and Off Topic are night and day on these topics.

.

 

[Liliana Eileen]

Alright guys, he's banned. Let's stop quoting his garbage.

 

[Damerman]

I think you missed the point. You don't realise how hard it is to deal with sexual harassment in the workplace mano-a-mano until you're actually put in that position. You can't simply punch the guy like you could in a bar.

the horrible experience you shared could not have been more eloquent. if this person missed the point then, they are def not gonna get it now.

regardless though, if a woman gets sexually harassed by a man or woman and feels she needs to physically defend herself, she should be able to without social norms of hyper-masculinity getting in the way. it has nothing to do with gender.

 

[Soren01]

I have no way of knowing if this allegation is true or false. I'm just flabbergasted at the sheer volume of people who reached solid conclusions without pausing for air. And that scares me way more.

This

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Nah that's not how it works here but it certainly seems that way reading some replies. This is a very serious accusation and it should be treated very seriously, by us and the parties that are involved. I agree that the statement seems to be rushed somewhat but we don't exactly know what happened today for ND to come to that conclusion. Maybe they're trying to cover it up, perhaps Sony HR is but I see some people here taking David's word as the complete and definitive truth.
I do think though that this should be investigated further.

Oh for sure it should but if nothing happens after this statement it's a damn shame and in that case perhaps David shouldn't have come out on Twitter about it. It's perfectly understandable though that he did. I can imagine you don't want to sit on something like that for the rest of your life and these recent updates about Weinstein gave him courage. Definitely sounds plausible to me.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Console warriors step aside please.

This is not about that.

 

[RedRedSuit]

I would just like to add that $20k is an insultingly small amount of hush money, or severance if you want to call it that. To me that sounds like an amount that would be offered with a standard non-disparagement clause, not anything special.

So using that in argument as evidence of Sony’s guilt doesn’t fly. Most firings I’ve seen involve an extra amount contingent on non-disparagement. My wife was fired from a company (we feel for very stupid reasons, but I suppose I’m biased) and was given 3 months’ pay as severance but only if non-disparagement clause was signed. Any firing, which usually involves disagreements, is likely to involve something like that. If you think that is slimy or bribery, perhaps it is, but it’s standard.

—

Note I’m not saying I disbelieve or believe David Ballard. There’s a good chance what he’s saying is true. Far over 50%, since making up something is strange. But I’m definitely not at the stage where I boycott products, etc. It’s completely unknown what happened. It could be an argument between two people. They could’ve been in a relationship that went bad. Anything is possible, even if most probably he’s telling the truth.

 

[Rmagnus]

I would just like to add that $20k is an insultingly small amount of hush money, or severance if you want to call it that. To me that sounds like an amount that would be offered with a standard non-disparagement clause, not anything special.

So using that in argument as evidence of Sony’s guilt doesn’t fly. Most firings I’ve seen involve an extra amount contingent on non-disparagement. My wife was fired from a company (we feel for very stupid reasons, but I suppose I’m biased) and was given 3 months’ pay as severance but only if non-disparagement clause was signed. Any firing, which usually involves disagreements, is likely to involve something like that. If you think that is slimy or bribery, perhaps it is, but it’s standard.

—

Note I’m not saying I disbelieve or believe David Ballard. There’s a good chance what he’s saying is true. Far over 50%, since making up something is strange. But I’m definitely not at the stage where I boycott products, etc. It’s completely unknown what happened. It could be an argument between two people. They could’ve been in a relationship that went bad. Anything is possible, even if most probably he’s telling the truth.

Come on now... Seriously with how tightly knitted the game industry is he would do such a thing? I too am waiting for more information but seriously don't start imaging stuff just to paint a picture

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I hope we get to the bottom of this.

Not taking sides because I honestly don't know. First time of hearing of sexual harassment at ND. And I honestly don't know this man, his personality, or what he is capable of. And the notion that a company would give someone 20k under the table is a little strange.

And a LOT of people would have to be in on it, wouldn't they? The HR, the accountants, someone to release 20k in funds.

Dunno how all that shit works.

Hope this guy has something more though. Like specifically recording the call would be great.

Sony saying WHY he was fired could maybe put an end to this. Must have been something serious to get fired, rather than laid off.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Naughty Dog has issued a statement



https://www.naughtydog.com/blog/an_important_statement_from_naughty_dog

That's a shit way to respond to this.

Way to make yourselves sound complicit as fuck, ND.

 

[WaterAstro]

I think we're going to have a lot of these that could be fake allegations. It could be real. We don't know.
Certainly no person in the World can be exempt from this kind of crime. Anyone can do it.

The difference is that the journalist who wrote the piece on exposing Weinstein spent years making it. There's a huge difference between a single post of Twitter vs what it took to finally expose Weinstein.

Sony saying WHY he was fired could maybe put an end to this. Must have been something serious to get fired, rather than laid off.

I don't think any company would do that because of privacy protection of the company, the person, and the employees.

That's a shit way to respond to this.

Way to make yourselves sound complicit as fuck, ND.

Dude. That's the way any company handles any of these statements. lol

 

[qko]

I think we're going to have a lot of these that could be fake allegations. It could be real. We don't know.
Certainly no person in the World can be exempt from this kind of crime. Anyone can do it.

The difference is that the journalist who wrote the piece on exposing Weinstein spent years making it. There's a huge difference between a single post of Twitter vs what it took to finally expose Weinstein.

Sure, it’s probably the reason Weinstein went down. But the whole moral of that story was to not stay silent because if we weren’t a society that dismissed these issues as a “he said/she said” issue, how many people could have avoided a negative encounter with Weinstein? How many people that work at and will work at ND and SIE after this weekend (especially what results after that statement) will be a little more aware of the work culture at those places?

 

[JacksUsername]

I hope we get to the bottom of this.

Not taking sides because I honestly don't know. First time of hearing of sexual harassment at ND. And I honestly don't know this man, his personality, or what he is capable of. And the notion that a company would give someone 20k under the table is a little strange.

And a LOT of people would have to be in on it, wouldn't they? The HR, the accountants, someone to release 20k in funds.

Dunno how all that shit works.

Hope this guy has something more though. Like specifically recording the call would be great.

Sony saying WHY he was fired could maybe put an end to this. Must have been something serious to get fired, rather than laid off.

I'd imagine the 20k might be put under buckets of severance, bonus or time off payouts, etc. But in order to receive the money, the employee needs to sign a termination of employment agreement, which can include NDA's and waiving the right to sue the company. I was laid off a couple of years ago, not on bad terms, but as a result of a merger, and was required to sign all these kinds of documents to get my severance paid out. Luckily in my instance, I knew it was just standard procedure and there was no ill will, but in a case where the employee has a grievance against the employer, it really makes it tough, as a lot of people may need that severance or time off payment to continue paying rent, etc., forcing them to neglect their accusations in favor of just getting by.

EDIT: Also, if he was a contract employee, and not FTE salary, it might have been paying out some of his remaining contract. These are all just guesses, but trying to give examples of different forms the 20k payout could have taken.

 

[SubAdictos]

Alright guys, he's banned. Let's stop quoting his garbage.

Well done. Let's ban a person who write a personal and unpopular opinion without insult anyone.

 

[_Final_Phoenix_]

I take my issues with the media silence back; Polygon published an article and included ND's response (as you might guess, typical corporate dismissal). They followed due diligence after all.

Nothing from Sony themselves, seems like they didn't even ask. At the very least, press them on why he was let go in the first place, instead of just asking "was he harassed" and calling it a day when they deny it. Again, maybe I'm just impatient, but I would be sad if this is as far as it got.


EDIT: Nevermind, Polygon just got heir statement from a press release from ND. I thought they actually worked to try and get answers themselves. So unless they did, and ND issued the statement instead of responding individually, my statement from yesterday still stands; no one does journalism, just regurgitates press releases.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Come on now... Seriously with how tightly knitted the game industry is he would do such a thing? I too am waiting for more information but seriously don't start imaging stuff just to paint a picture

I don't understand your complaint or the reference to the industry being particularly tightly knit and how that somehow makes anything I've said more or less likely. Without knowing the history of he people involved, it's impossible to know the depth and breadth oh what happened. Meanwhile anything is possible.

Likely he's just saying telling the truth, and that's that. But I could fill a book with likely things that weren't the case after all.

Though, if it's the abstract "honor" of a corporation that's at stake, it doesn't bother me much. They'll live. It's much worse when an individual person's life is destroyed by a false accusation. And yes, it's even worse when someone is harassed. Which is why all of it is so shitty... destroyed lives are the norm.

 

[GHG]

I take my issues with the media silence back; Polygon published an article and included ND's response (as you might guess, typical corporate dismissal). They followed due diligence after all.

Nothing from Sony themselves, seems like they didn't even ask. At the very least, press them on why he was let go in the first place, instead of just asking "was he harassed" and calling it a day when they deny it. Again, maybe I'm just impatient, but I would be sad if this is as far as it got.

Why should there be something from Sony when the subsidiary (Naughty Dog) have already put out an official response? What more is necessary?

As for the "official" reason he was dismissed, it's in the OP. He had a breakdown which lead to him being made "redundant".

 

[xxracerxx]

Well done. Let's ban a person who write a personal and unpopular opinion without insult anyone.

The fuck? How is it not insulting to just dismiss that a man should not ever feel harassed?

I just assume this is a burner account I am responding to and you will go off about echo chambers now.

 

[WaterAstro]

Sure, it’s probably the reason Weinstein went down. But the whole moral of that story was to not stay silent because if we weren’t a society that dismissed these issues as a “he said/she said” issue, how many people could have avoided a negative encounter with Weinstein? How many people that work at and will work at ND and SIE after this weekend (especially what results after that statement) will be a little more aware of the work culture at those places?

I'm actually thinking of how any disgruntled persons can use social media against anyone. People listen to any sensationalist social media piece if it hits there emotions. Trump did that to win the election. The fact is that we all have to be careful in believing what goes on in social media.

You don't go to social media for this and make a unsubstantiated statement without more evidence.

 

[Mar Nosso]

Well done. Let's ban a person who write a personal and unpopular opinion without insult anyone.

If you say unacceptable shit on a public forum where mostly open minded and decent individuals come together to discuss their favourite hobby, you're going to get in trouble. If your background makes you think that way, you need to reeducate yourself.