The main point is that this grind should still be fun and rewarding, not punishing. Reducing the in-game ways to earn those cars certainly reduces the fun. At the same time, grinding is now the only way to get cars. That cannot be a...
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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The main point is that this grind should still be fun and rewarding, not punishing. Reducing the in-game ways to earn those cars certainly reduces the fun. At the same time, grinding is now the only way to get cars. That cannot be a...
QuicheFontaine
Member
5/5 - The Sess. Mind you, there's little incentive to care when the games are bought for you.
I think Skeletor was subtle and understated by comparison.
Marauder Shields
Member
Sure but the option is still there for people to get whatever car they want without having to pay a dime (beyond the purchase price of the game). I mean unless some cars could only be acquired via real money then I don't see it as that big an issue. Artificially increasing the grind is a bit shitty though. I know it's not ideal but hey this is the direction that console gaming seems to be going in.
NullPointer
Member
I would like someone to provide some data that actually backs up this claim of it taking way longer.
Cow Goes Moo
Member
Ryan242004
Member
This sums it up perfectly. I will never pay for micro transactions but they have adjusted the normal progression rate to punish those that don't buy in. It's unacceptable and I will never buy another Turn 10 product. Microsoft has ruined the last good franchise they had...
NullPointer
Member
That'd be difficult to calculate.
Its not just a matter of prices that may have changed between Forza 4 and 5. Its also money payouts per event, and bonuses for affinity and Drivatar race results. Then again you don't have the marketplace to sell cars, or get affinity rewards and discounts on upgrades. Not sure about the livery/tuning marketplace - does that still exist as a way for players to earn money?
But at some point you have to take a step back and contemplate just how the progressions curves in this game are formulated. What they're tuned to achieve. And whether you believe that the monetization practices have any measure of influence over those values.
My perspective is that it would be a little nuts to assume the progression, the cut of in-game revenue possibilities and real-money transactions were formulated in isolation.
I don't like the practice, even when I buy new 99% of the time and in essence it wouldn't affect me. I voted with my wallet, which is what everyone says you should do in that case, so I don't see how it is stupid.
Stupid would be to buy it, then complain about how I don't like the practice. I can live without a few games in my life, maybe you can't *shrugs*
Punkster_NY
Member
thank god I went with PS4 over Xbone.
I think I understood it: when you buy a DLC car in Forza you don't get to use the car inmediately, you gain the right to unlock it via in-game currency, and in Forza 5 case, via real money too?
If that's the case well, I say paying just to be able to unlock something is kind of absurd, and if you can unlock it with real money, then it's a scam.
We should have hard numbers in a couple of months when people have earned enough tokens.
Wow! It's getting a bit out of hand! People should check this thread and the video in the OP:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721325
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721325
Agreed, which is why its too early to bring out the torches.
Let's just hope that GT's micro-transactions bullshit won't reach similar levels...
This.
akachan ningen
Member
Microsoft: portrait of a cash grabber
This post should be in the OP, IMO. Shows just how malicious this really is. Removal of features and deliberate changing of mechanics in order to offer further incentive to buy stuff with real money.
Some of these breakdowns seem to be coming from people serious enough about the game to figure this stuff out.
Though there's always the possibility of patching if there's enough uproar. I'd like to hear about that if it happens.
You had to do that with Forza 4 as well IIRC. You could buy a car pack, but you still had to buy the car(s) with in-game currency that you earned to actually drive it.
They shouldn't be there in the first place.
NullPointer
Member
No torches here.
Just trying to get clear details and letting people know what's up.
But for my part there is no way you can tie your progression system to real world money and not have your game influenced by it.
Yeah, but since they already are there, they won't leave easily.
Late to the conversation. Let me see if I understand this correctly.
Game costs $60 bucks. Game has microtransactions for content that could potentially cost thousands of additional dollars. Same content can be unlocked by just naturally playing the game, but the grind is too slow to be worthwhile, thus stifling completionists for the sake of incentivizing microtransactions for impatient players.
Is this correct?
Game costs $60 bucks. Game has microtransactions for content that could potentially cost thousands of additional dollars. Same content can be unlocked by just naturally playing the game, but the grind is too slow to be worthwhile, thus stifling completionists for the sake of incentivizing microtransactions for impatient players.
Is this correct?
Polioliolio
Member
Well, this was Capcom Vancouver. Capcom Japan are the real assholes.
NullPointer
Member
Pretty much. The speed of the progression isn't well known, and different people have different tolerances and definitions of what turns a fun game into a tedious grind, but the economy of Forza 5 is radically different from the previous game, with some avenues players relied upon for in-game currency removed altogether.
Forza has two prices. Credits and tokens. Credits are earned in-game and tokens can be bought in packages for real money. The bottom of the OP has an example of a high price car (CR and tokens) and the prices in USD for the different token packages.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Difference is those are the normal in game prices for those vehicles. They didn't change the entire economy of GT6 to accommodate buying currency with real money*, they just tacked on the ability to buy credits with real money. It might seem subtle but the difference is huge.
*Unless the amount of Cr you get per race has decreased.
I think it's a bit bullshit to not at least give DLC buyers the cars they bought. But after giving them money to unlock the cars, they still expect you to pay more money to unlock the cars or spend weeks making enough money to buy the cars with in-game currency that you already paid for with real money?
So depressing. This really makes me just want to enjoy my massive backlog and hold off on next-gen even longer.
I'm not sure how to consider Gran Turismo. GT5 didn't have microtransactions and the progression was already slow. I remember reaching a point where I had to grind like crazy. It progression is held at the same rate in GT6 but now there's microtransactions it'll still look bad.
There's also the angle of how much you even get with the amount of real life money you spent. If we can buy the biggest pack and effectively clean house, and that biggest pack isn't very expensive then it's not so bad, whereas it seems to take multiples of the most expensive Forza pack to get the most expensive cars.
I'd like to make an additional point about grinding. I've always felt that console racing games have that 'grind' element. I 'grinded' my way through PGR2, but you know what? It taught me to drive better. Getting those sparkly new cars and rewards is what drove me to well, drive better. The Forza games were no different in my experience. I haven't played F5 though, so I don't know how the game is balanced.
QuicheFontaine
Member
People complain that there isn't any real innovation with the next-gen consoles, but I don't think I ever played a game on the 360 where it was even possible to spend over $3,000 unlocking stuff. This really is the future.
Eyeballing the text quoted from the official forums, I'd estimate that a competent driver earns credits at 1/10th the rate of FM4. But if cars cost half as much in FM5, maybe the grind is then about 5 times as slow.
UnluckyKate
Member
And no one is standing against this... No journe no critics no metacrtic blowback
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Been saying this for years. But no one listens. Hopefully it'll get so bad that devs/pubs and console makers won't have a choice but to abandon it. Unfortunately, consumers buy shitty products and services by the bushel.
Pickles Spill
Member
I have a feeling this will go the way of online passes soon. It's only a matter of time.
Save 'N Quit
Banned
This is absolutely despicable.
I feel bad for any unaware consumer buying this.
I feel bad for any unaware consumer buying this.
Forza 3 and 4 do the same thing though. Even if you buy DLC, you still have to buy the car with in-game money you earn by playing the game. I actually think that's a good thing, because it keeps things more balanced in multi-player. I don't want to race some clown who paid real money for hot car, but can't drive. If you ear the car in-game, it's very likely that you have some skill in driving the cars. Wouldn't you say?
NullPointer
Member
Jim Sterling put it best when discussing the psychology of free-to-play elements.
Once you add these free-to-play elements to a game you've engaged the players in psychological warfare where you pit the length of the progression system against the openness of a player's wallet.
No matter how long the grind was before monetization, once you tie money to it thats exactly what it becomes. Call it a metagame if you will, but the game will apply pressure on the player to pay to overcome or circumvent certain obstacles put before them. Some games will be more fine tuned for this than others, but any game with such time savers is applying those pressures. Forza happens to be one of the worst if not the worst out there with this stuff.
Remember when games didn't try to squeeze every possible penny out their audience?
Voting with my wallet and not supporting any games that have microtransactions in them. I'm paying $60 for every game I buy basically, and most of them aren't worth the price of full admission to begin with. Forza 5 and the Xbox One are going to need a substantial price drop in the future for me to consider picking them up. Hopefully this isn't a new thing with Microsoft's first party titles...
Voting with my wallet and not supporting any games that have microtransactions in them. I'm paying $60 for every game I buy basically, and most of them aren't worth the price of full admission to begin with. Forza 5 and the Xbox One are going to need a substantial price drop in the future for me to consider picking them up. Hopefully this isn't a new thing with Microsoft's first party titles...
Was The Godfather the first game that did pay real money for an expendable in-game thing? Couldn't you have continuously paid money into that? Tryin' to remember if there were any earlier ones.
Here it is:
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