PjotrStroganov
Member
AFreak said:Oh I thought they could do a firmware update or something.
They don't want to.
AFreak said:Oh I thought they could do a firmware update or something.
well when i said it was a hardware issue, i was referring to the G25 hardware -- it is designed as a HID device and 360 only supports XID (MS proprietary format for 360 -- requires special hardware). microsoft could do a firmware update to support HID, but that would open it up to pretty much any usb controller (like PS3 is), and i think microsoft enjoys selling you their wheel and their controllers.AFreak said:Oh I thought they could do a firmware update or something.
You know what, my MS Wheel and Playseat combo roxxors, and is a far better setup than the huge number of fanboy bitches who preach G25, but practice joypad. (no diss to the real G25 users).Scottlarock said:I got a MS wheel for cheap and I'm really impressed by it so far.
AFreak said:Damn, hasn't been one like that since. I did hear a rumor that Papyrus may come back and do NASCAR now that EA forfeited the license though.
...or Logitech could release an XID wheel.dfyb said:well when i said it was a hardware issue, i was referring to the G25 hardware -- it is designed as a HID device and 360 only supports XID (MS proprietary format for 360 -- requires special hardware). microsoft could do a firmware update to support HID, but that would open it up to pretty much any usb controller (like PS3 is), and i think microsoft enjoys selling you their wheel and their controllers.
:lolcjelly said:...or Logitech could release an XID wheel.
It works both ways but no surprises which side you're on.
i was replying to this:cjelly said:...or Logitech could release an XID wheel.
It works both ways but no surprises which side you're on.
it's quite clear that he's talking about getting an existing G25 now and hoping it's supported later, and not talking about waiting for logitech to make a new hypothetical G25 just for 360.AFreak said:I want a G25 now...think it'll work on F3 by the time it releases?
ACers said:As for FFB, ECCI has developed internally several generations of FFB prototypes since 2001. To this time we have not seen the business reality necessary to enable the deployment of a commerically viable production FFB unit. If we eventually do, it will be expensive - much more so than our current product line. Our expectation is that only a major quantity order from a commercial customer will make production feasible.
Ready to kill for an ECCI-quality FFB unit for PC and Xbox 360? We won't require the spilling of blood, but if you really want one THAT bad, it IS theoretically possible - with enough money.
Want a copy of our next commerical-duty FFB prototype? We expect the new version we have been working on will be ready in about six months - and it WILL be very expensive. Think well over TWICE the price of the TS6000(isamu note: he's talking somewhere in the neighborhood of $3000) Please don't send any emails to us asking about it unless you are REALLY serious about acquiring one. As this is only a prototype, it will require a substantial advance deposit.
A. Cers
ECCI
isamu said:Hey wassup Andy :lol: :lol: :lol: Andy you ARE kidding right? It's just that those last couple of paragraphs had me laughing out loud so I'm not sure whether to take it sarcasm or not.
If you ARE serious, then all I can say is damn...I'm shocked. Thought you guys would've stuck to your guns and would have never even considered the possibility of FFB, regardless of the price, due to philosophical reasons. Why the change of heart?
ACers said:To all:
It's true... only a large commerical order would make it financially feasible to go into production. When you make custom machined parts, ordering less than a hundred at a time makes them cost prohibitive per piece. And financing a hundred unit run of FFB wheels runs costs well into six figures. We would be happy to do it for anyone willing to guarantee they would buy at least fifty of them. With 50% cash up front that is.
Getting a clone of our latest prototype is actually a bargain - its real cost would be much more than you would actually have to pay.
As for a prototype being a bug-ridden kludge - that would describe our first attempt we made back in 2001. We are now generations of development past that. We believe our third generation prototype is the most accurate FFB wheel in existence. It is so accurate in its response that it can reveal the flaws in FFB software output.
This is one of the reasons we have not proceeded into production. We believe many would be disappointed - not in the wheel - but in how crude the FFB effects are in some software titles. Most of what we consider to be flaws are thus outside of our control. They are intrinsic to all FFB wheels.
This has improved over time as computers have gotten faster. The relative crudity of the Logitch G25 tends to mask FFB flaws. Ours lets them shine through perfectly in all their glory. We have discovered - much to our surprise - it is possible for a wheel to actually be TOO good(!).
So why are we doing a costly fourth generation FFB prototype right now? We have been commissioned and paid up front, by a long standing commercial customer, to construct a new production-ready prototype for evaluation by a customer of theirs. If they like it and order fifty, which IS potentially possible, then there may be an available ECCI FFB wheel in the future after all. But we are not going to abandon our fluid-damping for it. There may well be room for both especially considering the price difference.
And none of this is certain in this economy. We were at a similar point a year ago with a different commercial customer and it all came to nothing. So guys, don't be holding your breath!
A. Cers
ECCI
Acers said:Isamu, it has never been a question of philosophy, but entirely one of pragmatic results. As I stated many moons and eons ago in an old thread on the topic, that we would never release a new wheel, that we ourselves would NOT choose to purchase over our existing product.
Are we close now? I would say yes, but flaws remain outside of our control. One of them is that iRacing's FFB model leaves a lot to be desired when you drive it with a high-fidelity FFB wheel. But Sim Bin has it dicked hands down, so I believe iRacing will eventually improve theirs. But you would never know it if all you used was a G25.
The one element of our core philosophy that has always applied to our business, is our drive to achieve "transparency of control" - the ability of the driving system to "disappear" when racing - so the driver can remain entirely focused on the car and the race. FFB flaws and artificial artifacts distract from this transparency. That being said, we have developed a mechanism that provides modest mechanical damping to smooth out such flaws, but that still remains an issue.
A. Cers
ECCI
P.S. Isamu, are we still only months away from Outrun 2006 Coast to Coast? Call me a cynic, but hey - vaporware exists! LMAO! :lol:
Tero said:So you're saying that your prototype FFB wheel is better than a G25, but the FFB on G25 feels better because the wheel is worse?
ACers said:To be clear - our most recent prototype wheel is more accurate in responding to force signals. The G25 wheel is more crude in construction and this masks the effect flaws in some software titles. Whether that is better or worse is up to the user and the software being used.
In iRacing, the G25 feels fine. But when we fire up our wheel in it, what distracts are the abrupt effect changes around center and other anomalies. The G25 does not communicate these anomalies for its construction is far looser and it response more coarse. That is the best way I can describe it.
Now in SimBin titles, these anomalies around center do not exist. Thus it is not a property of our wheel, it is a software issue.
A. Cers
ECCI
cjelly said:...or Logitech could release an XID wheel.
saladine1 said:words words words...
isamu said:And to those of you who consider the Logitech G25 the Holy Grail of FFB wheels...
saladine1 said:whole bunch of words and damn awesome cars including this one:
HOLDEN HT MONARO GTS
AMUSIX said:I would be so freaking thrilled at this. Unfortunately, you're Saladine, which means, on initial blush, it all comes off as bullshit.
Oh well...still would be a great track to have.
Yazus said:I demand Alfa Romeo Brera/8C to be in this game (Maybe Alfa Romeo GT) because they are fucking beautiful
If the Brera is in the game I will buy Forza 3 as wank-fodder.Yazus said:I demand Alfa Romeo Brera/8C to be in this game (Maybe Alfa Romeo GT) because they are fucking beautiful
Diablohead said:I never brought the racing seat and MS wheel I was after (lost the ebay bid) but I am thinking about picking up the logitech wheel with the rumble driven FF or whatever it is, did a google search and read some feedback and reviews on the wheel and for the asking price of £25 it sounds rather sweet, good build quality and nice feel to the wheel grip.
amar212 said:Hey Isamu, just one simple questin dear friend:
What are the RSP prices of those 2 wheels you have?
If I remember well, Frex combo (wheelbase, pedals, wheel adapter, actual wheel, etc.) costs around 4000$ (words: four thousand) for the whole package.
I do not know the price for you other wheel, but G25 cost less than 300 euros (400$).
I think it is actualy a Holy Grail when price is put into perspective
Router said:I have both the G25 and the MS wheel at the moment. Love the G25. I payed $60 for the MS wheel and for that price is great.
I read that it still gives the wheel movement though even if it's just random rumble, for £20 a while ago you could never get a wheel even with rumble, the last two wheels I owned for PS1 and DC are both fully plastic and cost like £50 retailWired said:If I'm not totally mistaken it has no FF at all, just rumble.
Wired said:I decided to pick up a MS Wireless Wheel in anticipation for Forza 3, though my game choices at the moment are somewhat limited (DiRT and PGR4). I tested the wheel in DiRT and had a question. There's a continuous jerking and sort of vibrating motion going on, which I imagine is meant to simulate driving over gravel and whatnot, but the whole thing was sort of noisy and "sharp", I got the impression the gears were grinding inside the wheel, is this normal? My first impression was "fuck it's broken, just my luck".
While I fired up PGR4 my brother came over and threw me out of the sofa so I didn't get to play, but it seemed much smoother in that game. By now I'm too damn tired to try it out myself so I decided to spam this thread instead.
BenjaminBirdie said:Dirt is VERY heavy on the wheel. I did the same thing and found the same results. That game really goes buck wild on your poor wee steering wheel in its attempt to simulate that kind of driving and that kind terrain.
cjelly said:I got the MS wheel for Father's Day yesterday.
I need a table to fix it to, though, as it's unusable on my lap.
RSTEIN said:Aren't we supposed to get new stuff every Tues?
op_ivy said:i use a belt to hold it to my lap. for realz. dont laugh, it works... i am working on getting a proper set up
also, thanks tomchoucrew for the le mans vids
We're supposed to see a new track today, too.Spaceman Spiff said:Yeah, new car reveals every other Tuesday, starting today.
I think a new Pitpass podcast should be going up later today as well.
dygiT said:Just played a bit of the 2nd game and loved it.
Anyone else have trouble finishing or even starting 5+ lap races?
Dina said:Races generally take too long to finish. IMO when you get into 5/6+ lap territory, F2 lost its charm.
Che Team Forza said:Hi all. Glad to see everyone's so excited and clamoring for new info on FM3.
So I have a batch of new screenshots and an article I can't release because our PR folks have decided to hold the story for one of our global regions to use that tie-in with one of their biggest motorsports events in their country... which means no new reveal this week.
However, later today, we'll be releasing our first Forza Pitpass Report podcast "video" which streams on Forzamotorsport.net. As you listen to the podcast (featuring Dan G., myself, and Landin), we'll be serving up tons and tons of pictures and photos in the video player on the site. It was a fun podcast to record with Dan since we had so much to talk about (the announce, E3, Le Mans, competitor drama, etc).
Also, I'm going to see if I can squeeze out some more screenshot hotness this week.
So again, sorry no new stuff today, but look forward to the podcast, and as always, let us know what you think.
Thanks,
Spaceman Spiff said:It seems no new cars or tracks will be revealed today, unfortunately, but there's still that new podcast to look forward to.
From the FM.net forums:
What big international motorsports events are coming up? Could be a hint, perhaps.
Hmmm...Spaceman Spiff said:What big international motorsports events are coming up? Could be a hint, perhaps.
wtf? How can you call fanboi from that reply about company and hardware differences? Which isn't fud.cjelly said:...or Logitech could release an XID wheel.
It works both ways but no surprises which side you're on.
Monster Trucks in FM3 confirmed.Spaceman Spiff said:What big international motorsports events are coming up? Could be a hint, perhaps.
I hope they made the track wider this time round. It feels a little enclosed in FM2.sionyboy said:I wonder what the Nordschliefe looks like in this new engine.....
*spooges at the thought*
Don't listen to this guy, che!:lolDural said:I honestly think the ring has been overdone. I wish they'd spend the resources necessary for the ring and put them into other tracks you don't see as often like Brno.