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[Zeus Molecules]

It remains to be seen what the solution will be here. Many people have always advocated for a health based approach with clinics and rehab programs and such to fight drug epidemics in poor and black communities. And that has happened in many places especially on a city/state level. Of course we just voted in idiots so I doubt this will be there solution even with it being in white communities.

Also, you make a ridiculous assumption that this is a result of failed "white privilege" and that people should get with the times and stop following tradition. The implication being that people are depressed about giving "power" to minorities I guess? Isn't it more likely that white working class (and all working class) means a whole lot more of a depressing life than it used to? People used to make a living wage in the working class. Now it means poverty, for everyone. Our wages are becoming more imbalanced by the year. People in the lower class are stressed, poor, depressed and have worse jobs than ever. Maybe it's less about race and more that there lives are just shit now too.

My argument about white privilege is based mostly on the studies that have come out recently that shows people (both domestically and abroad in Europe) are voting for populist candidates mostly based on racial identity politics. It's a part of their identity that arguably they are letting control their decision making process more than anything else.

In a lot of ways if it was just an economic issue this would be a lot easier to address.... however it just not. The housing market crash may have been the last stone..... but even then how much monetary value is a house on the outskirts of a small town. Especially since houses aren't liquid assets unless they had mortgages, and etc to live off it.

The income issue has been a very slow creep by decades. I mean right now a lot more rural white people are on Welfare than minorities combined. However, because the issue is framed within racial terms those same white people vote against a program that should be a foundation program to try and help get them out of poverty. Hell the ACA is in the middle of being revoked as much due to it being branded Obamacare as anything else.

Minorities in Power is just another form of cognitive dissonance that those same poor rural whites are dealing with. It's not the root cause of their issues (bad political leadership is...... but that is another debate). However, yes they need to stop letting traditional norms get in the way of making ends meet. Coal Mining being championed as some noble career choice "cause that is all they know" is completely hogwash because they can and should learn to do something more viable. The idea that taxing business is bad because they are job creators doesn't make sense since that tax money should be spread amongst the worker to help them become job creators themselves. And those same business are proceeding to automate as much as they can to improve their bottom line. The Protestant work ethic makes a whole lot less sense if the minimum wage and overtime laws on the books for your state severely limit the amount you can earn. All of these things are cognitive dissonance issues that people vote against their own interest in because traditionally they vote for one set of policies because they have been indoctrinated into believing one party has their benefits in mind and the other party helps all those "other" people.

 

[Jotakori]

Again I don't have any facts in front of me right now...it was just me thinking aloud

But doesn't Japan have a very high number of atheists? And isn't their suicide rate high?

I know in Christianity that it is taught that suicide is a sin.. also the hope aspect plays a huge role

What makes you think whites with a high school education are not atheists?

I'll try to dig up some things when I get time

I would think suicide rates in Japan would have more directly to do with pressures in society and how they treat work. I've also always heard they don't have the best views toward mental illness, which could make it hard for people so seek help when they need it.

As an atheist and knowing several other atheists, from my POV we all seem to have a pretty good grip on our outlooks. I've never felt any atheist I know -- including myself -- has had a problem with lack of hope or didn't have proper outlets to deal with our issues in life. Obviously there are tons more atheists out there than myself and who I know and I could in no way speak for all of them, but I don't think I'd correlate atheism with suicide either without some good proof to suggest it.

 

[LizardKing]

CARA and the 21st Century Cares Act, with it's $1 billion towards the opioid addiction problem received broad bipartisan support in both the GOP controlled House and Senate.

And then they want to turn around and take away addiction as a requirement for coverage with medicaid (the cynics say CARA feeds big pharma). Your point is interesting though, I'm just not sure that's enough to show that now it's a white problem so they will put money into it for me. There has been a lot of money put into addiction programs over the years. Also I would like to think the nation as a whole is more awake than the 80's and 90's with regards to strict drug penalties will not do shit. Drug penalties are so ridiculous at this point what else can they do on that front? Plus the nation seems to be going the other direction from stiff penalties.

 

[theignoramus]

If conservatives start advocating for lessening drug penalties and free rehab once drugs are a "white" community problem I will fully concede your point. I don't see that happening. Liberals on the other hand would generally like to treat it as a health issue even in black communities (liberal states already do). So I meant more your political group than the individual. And that matters. Also to be fair, there was a lot of effort put into anti drug programs (especially in inner cities), cutting off supply and trying to keep them off the streets, not just incarceration. So this flies in the face of "US doesn't care" theory. I do think you are being pretty jaded as these deaths of despair have received quite a bit of attention over the past 30 years in black communities. And my money is on whether black or white issue, your solution to dealing with it is probably formed by if you are liberal or conservative.

But there has been a shift in conservative tone on drug use. "Just say no!" was what was being proposed to drug ravaged communities in the 80s. Personal responsibility.
Now hardliners like Ted Cruz talk in a much more benign way about drug users, like theyre victims of a disease as opposed to the Reagan era mantra of drug users being moral failures who deserved whatever happened to them.
The shift in Republican tone is so obvious I'm shocked to read a post disingenuous enough to deny it.

 

[WillyFive]

Atheists usually don't have to deal with religious pressure in every day life as a way of measuring one's self worth, which is why suicides are in lower numbers in more atheist countries. Japan is an exception because they have societal pressures that replaced religious pressure, but are still just as powerful.

 

[arglebargle]

Chart makes it look like Hispanics don't die. Nice work by them.

 

[entremet]

To be fair, this is beyond partisan politics.

It's a world that is moving too fast economically for these communities to stay competitive.

The biggest issue is that these rural towns are cut off from huge economic hubs--cities.

Not everyone need to live in a city per se, but suburbs surrounding bigger cities do way better than these nowherevilles locations, where access to education, jobs, and opportunities are limited.

Not only that this places are insular, so you're not going to meet advisors and mentors to help you get out. At least there's the Internet these days.

Moreover, anyone in the medical field will tell you that these rural communities are underserved. A hot shot doctor or medical professional doesn't want to move bumblefuck. This is why many offer tuition forgiveness to work in these underserved communities.

It's way more complex than republicans and democrats.

Chart makes it look like Hispanics don't die. Nice work by them.

La Familia

Hispanics prioritize family networks heavily. Those not only provide social and psychological support, but act as bulwarks against economics issues too.

I'm Hispanic, but I've always seen white Western american culture heavily focus on individualism bizarre.

You see this with talk of kicking kids out of the house at 18. Just bizarre to me.

 

[chromatic9]

I doubt its atheism

Northern Europe has maybe had strong atheism or general ambivalence for 40 years so maybe we've been through it or has happened over along time. Perhaps if US is shifting quickly maybe but I feel its tied to economic or bleak futures and the best bits have happened already.

As an outsider the American Dream seems to have hit the buffers. The grass isn't greener here in Europe. US 1950s -2000s was fantastic.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Great piece but these people were betrayed by their leaders and sold down the river. They're dumber and poorer because of Republican policies by and large. That's not to excuse racism and self destructive behavior but it does partially explain it.

I believe the crux of the problem isn't with the actual consequences of conservative policy, as destructive as that is, but in the ideology and it's propaganda itself. Conservatism is not just a brain drain on the country, but a cult leader who is pushing middle aged white people off of an emotional and intellectual cliff.

 

[Drensch]

This situation is a lot like Russia. And Trump is using similar techniques to distract this class.

 

[Trokil]

until those 50 year old dudes stop voting republican it won't be fixed

Why? The answer of the Democrats for this was for years: well, sucks to be you.

Bernie tried to change that, that is why he won those states but also people accused him that he is throwing minorities under the bus.

Democrats have no plan to change this and they are also not really interested because they believed the demographic shift will make them unstoppable anyway.

 

[Khoryos]

Why? The answer of the Democrats for this was for years: well, sucks to be you.

Bernie tried to change that, that is why he won those states but also people accused him that he is throwing minorities under the bus.

Yeah - it isn't a zero-sum game, but acting like Republicans are the only ones pushing the idea that it is is ignoring half the problem.

 

[Trokil]

Yeah - it isn't a zero-sum game, but acting like Republicans are the only ones pushing the idea that it is is ignoring half the problem.

Yes, they use those people for their game, but the other side is not helping either. So it seems, it really sucks to be them.

 

[thecouncil]

Np doubt 25% of voters chose hate over common sense or were conned by an obvious scam.

Problem being that they'll probably choose it again in 4 years.

 

[entremet]

Why? The answer of the Democrats for this was for years: well, sucks to be you.

Bernie tried to change that, that is why he won those states but also people accused him that he is throwing minorities under the bus.

Democrats have no plan to change this and they are also not really interested because they believed the demographic shift will make them unstoppable anyway.

Yep. Really weak analysis by many overall here.

 

[The Technomancer]

Why? The answer of the Democrats for this was for years: well, sucks to be you.

Citation needed

Especially in light of how much of the ACA was the medicaid expansion

The helpful initiatives of the democrats have never tried to exclude rural people. They just also included minorities. Healthcare initiatives have always been for everyone. Aid for education has always been for everyone. No state governor passed a bill saying "har har, free lunches only for the inner city kids but not for the rednecks"

 

[mattiewheels]

When you think about the rural communities that depended on a closed factory or mine to survive, with nothing to fill the void besides the new Walmart or leaving altogether to get a job in a bigger city, it doesn't sound crazy that they'd be taken by the Trump fantasy that those factories and mines are coming back. But boy is that going to turn out to be a terrible choice on their part, when their city decays even further and they chose the administration that isn't there to help them. Eight years of that could be so destructive.

 

[Boney]

Had written a longish post that got stuck in mobile bad connection hell but the gist of it

I agree that the drug epidemic that ravaged urban centers and affected mostly poor people of color had no constructive answer in terms of policy because it's a reflection of systemic racism. There's no public conversation to be had around the destitute, same as the AIDS crisis in the 80's. I disagree with this drug crisis being part of the public discourse, considering it's just a sporadic blip in the radar in a much more liberal and open media landscape. Race has helped ameliorate the vilification of it but it has only turned a blind eye to a society rotting from within.

There's also an important point to consider regarding the conditions around each drug epidemic. Urban drug abuse affects deprived and marginalized families which live inside the economic tent pole that is the city, but does so without the necessary economic and cultural capital needed initially to properly insert oneself. The lack of infrastructure provides the informal nature of the drug economy to rise and with it the possibility of abuse as one cannot participate in the recreational elements of the city. Incarceration then acts as a constant power exerted that gives the state the pretense for harassment and the destruction of the nuclear family, maintaining a cycle of poverty.

The rural one however what emerges after the depredation of industry. Once all the natural resources are depleted, the destructive forces of capitalism will move on to the next area to exploit for its resources or slave wages. The evacuation process is swift and it leaves behind the now abandoned infrastructures that built around industry, making them unsustainable. The different dynamic it has around the state power is built around the (in)visibility of it and the lack of contrast it has.

Both are two sides of the destructive forces of capitalism, which Marx understood as a revolutionary force, which consumes greater and greater number of human lives as it finally consumes itself. Automation will bring the next step of deindustralization of society, where there's going to be a collapse of the economic structure and the state won't have the insight to provide the security of it's people.

 

[Chococat]

This. Its rankings keep sinking further and further. For all that is said for the world class universities in the US, a lot of their staff and students have to be imported from other countries. High Schools are just not producing results that feed higher education.

Schools are important. But you could have the best schools in the world and America rank would still fall.

What needs to be fixed is Americans attitude towards learning and education.

 

[gutter_trash]

the difference between the US compared to other Western Nations in that graph demonstrates the importance of maintaining a strong social safety net that encompense social programs that the US doesn't have.

the Fuck You Got Mine mentality bites them back in the butt

 

[The Technomancer]

Had written a longish post that got stuck in mobile bad connection hell but the gist of it

I agree that the drug epidemic that ravaged urban centers and affected mostly poor people of color had no constructive answer in terms of policy because it's a reflection of systemic racism. There's no public conversation to be had around the destitute, same as the AIDS crisis in the 80's. I disagree with this drug crisis being part of the public discourse, considering it's just a sporadic blip in the radar in a much more liberal and open media landscape. Race has helped ameliorate the vilification of it but it has only turned a blind eye to a society rotting from within.

There's also an important point to consider regarding the conditions around each drug epidemic. Urban drug abuse affects deprived and marginalized families which live inside the economic tent pole that is the city, but does so without the necessary economic and cultural capital needed initially to properly insert oneself. The lack of infrastructure provides the informal nature of the drug economy to rise and with it the possibility of abuse as one cannot participate in the recreational elements of the city. Incarceration then acts as a constant power exerted that gives the state the pretense for harassment and the destruction of the nuclear family, maintaining a cycle of poverty.

The rural one however what emerges after the depredation of industry. Once all the natural resources are depleted, the destructive forces of capitalism will move on to the next area to exploit for its resources or slave wages. The evacuation process is swift and it leaves behind the now abandoned infrastructures that built around industry, making them unsustainable. The different dynamic it has around the state power is built around the (in)visibility of it and the lack of contrast it has.

Both are two sides of the destructive forces of capitalism, which Marx understood as a revolutionary force, which consumes greater and greater number of human lives as it finally consumes itself. Automation will bring the next step of deindustralization of society, where there's going to be a collapse of the economic structure and the state won't have the insight to provide the security of it's people.

I think you are largely correct that there is not a capitalistic solution to this problem, however I do think the specific industrial transition would happen under any economic model that employed, well, industry. Under any model if people aren't willing to relocate (which is reasonable, don't get me wrong) your solution ends up having to be some sort of welfare because, honestly, do-nothing work for the sake of feeling part of labor or the artificial inhibition of automation efficiency is dumb and there has to be a better solution

 

[The Greek Freak]

until those 50 year old dudes stop voting republican it won't be fixed

While Trump/GOP is going to make it worse, outside of Obama care the DNC didn't help much either.

The economic recovery from the last recession was almost all for the 1% and what wasn't went into the tech sector.

I know people in these areas. They saw the presidential election as:

Clinton - Dislike her, and at best she will be Obama 2.0

Trump - Dislike, but he at least has a 5% chance of fixing shit for my community.


I see this shit in New England where some small towns are crumbling due to the Opioid epidemic/shit economy. These regions will be as bad as coal towns in a few more years.

It's why me and my wife started an online business, our choices were essentially move to Boston and be 2 hours from any family members, or work for peanuts despite both having master's degrees.


While I disagreed with that 5% notion, I understood it. Gaf and other liberal echo-chambers acting as if these people who voted Obama twice are now KKK members aren't helping.These people saw Trump as a lottery ticket and that lottery ticket was better than nothing.

 

[entremet]

Citation needed

Especially in light of how much of the ACA was the medicaid expansion

The helpful initiatives of the democrats have never tried to exclude rural people. They just also included minorities. Healthcare initiatives have always been for everyone. Aid for education has always been for everyone. No state governor passed a bill saying "har har, free lunches only for the inner city kids but not for the rednecks"

ACA is good. I agree. But overall, Democrats have shifted their focus to urban centers and have neglected quasi blue states. Look at HRC's campaign strategy. Shuffling between NY, CA with high level donors.

It also shows Bernie's better support in these areas.

 

[dramatis]

There is just too much optimism about welfare, and I see no reason as of why that is.

Para your pessimism is off the charts right now lol

 

[The Technomancer]

ACA is good. I agree. But overall, Democrats have shifted their focus to urban centers and have neglected quasi blue states. Look at HRC's campaign strategy. Shuffling between NY, CA with high level donors.

It also shows Bernie's better support in these areas.

You mean where he won Wisconsin, Indiana and Michigan but lost Ohio, Pennsylvania, and South Dakota? Just glancing at a map I would hardly call his support indicative of what you're describing

 

[entremet]

You mean where he won Wisconsin, Indiana and Michigan but lost Ohio, Pennsylvania, and South Dakota? Just glancing at a map I would hardly call his support indicative of what you're describing

Bernie did pretty well for a populist left candidate in these areas. And he's been one of the few running that template in the national stage.

I don't think Bernie is a panacea. But his campaign showed a huge gap in the Dems recent strategies.

 

[SoundofSilence]

Complete lack of affordable education, affordable housing and affordable healthcare

But opioids are affordable.

As are guns and liquor.

 

[kess]

For all the shit the locals gave hispanics in my city, it's mostly white folks who are now at a disadvantage because they only know one language, and whiteness is simply not something a less competent worker can rely on anymore. I still think, racism aside, that this isn't a natural Republican demographic -- you can read articles by conservatives back in the 20s and 30s bemoaning how factory workers and unskilled workers make too much money. The GOP has more social issues to work with now, but on that issue, nothing has changed.

I think the crux of the socialism/social issue clash that underlied Bernie's whole campaign that he felt it was more effective to organize workers, who make up a large chunk of the population, than to organize it around demographics and interest groups, who make up smaller chunks of the population and have different motivationa.

 

[Trokil]

Citation needed

They said it themselves.

"For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin."

http://www.businessinsider.com/here...y-turned-their-backs-on-rural-america-2016-12

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...abandon-rural-america/?utm_term=.be3bcf5ba260

http://observer.com/2017/02/democrat-party-congressional-campaigns-rural-america/

 

[GameAddict411]

The sad thing is that a lot of those people vote overwhelmingly republican. The only way to help the uneducated Americans is to educate them and open up opportunities for them. Better health care is also important to combat drug problems. Both of these things are sadly considered to be a luxury in the United States.

 

[mattiewheels]

The sad thing is that a lot of those people vote overwhelmingly republican. The only way to help the uneducated Americans is to educate them and open up opportunities for them. Better health care is also important to combat drug problems. Both of these things are sadly considered to be a luxury in the United States.

What a coincidence that republicans have fostered a deep aversion to higher education in these people, like it's synonymous with brainwashing.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

The line showing college graduate suicides in the first graph doesn't indicate that at all. Things could change, sure, but I think you mean to say men with some college education who don't matriculate. That's the new under achiever, the one silly enough to get a mortgage worth of student loans without a house to live in, and can't find work beyond the complexity of a cash register.

Guy who finishes in seven years may not be the cream of the crop, but he did the damn job.

AI will take a lot of college educated jobs too.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt (2012).

Nice drop. I'll definitely look into this.

---
It really does pain me to see these people suffer. The whole idea is suicide scares me and seeing people take their lives because they feel they have nothing left is something I empathize with. But on the other hand, it's a struggle I have known all to well and I would like these same people to acknowledge it and work together with me. But they just won't

 

[Boney]

I think you are largely correct that there is not a capitalistic solution to this problem, however I do think the specific industrial transition would happen under any economic model that employed, well, industry. Under any model if people aren't willing to relocate (which is reasonable, don't get me wrong) your solution ends up having to be some sort of welfare because, honestly, do-nothing work for the sake of feeling part of labor or the artificial inhibition of automation efficiency is dumb and there has to be a better solution

I would also agree that continued automation is inevitable, but I don't necessarily agree that it makes things better for workers. In the long term people usually adapt and can be beneficial but there's also a considerable adjustment period that can be brutal as no regulations have been built to tame the beast.

However, the idea of people just aren't willing to relocate is absurd. Younger generations born into the decline or collapse of a social center will sometimes have a few enabling institutional help, like school, and a few resources saved that allow for individual relocation. Families and older generations are shit out of luck since they don't have the resources to find a new place to live and move. Which is why I always take issue with the simplicity, naivety or disdain in how they suggest a "learn a new trade skill or sink with the ship". Current rural to urban migration has been happening for well over two centuries as opportunities grow in the city and diminish in rural areas, but the way in which economic activity not only collapses, but takes the entire infraestructure with it is unprecedented.

I cannot stress enough just how vile the landscape is.

Emanuele: In Chapter Two, "Days of Siege," your commentary is focused around the city of Camden, New Jersey. However, for many of us, including myself, who grew up in the "Rust Belt," you could have easily switched Camden, New Jersey for Gary, Indiana; Detroit, Michigan; Cleveland, Ohio; Fort Wayne, Indiana; South Bend, Indiana, or so many other post-industrial areas in the United States. So, why Camden, New Jersey? Was there a symbolic and practical purpose for moving from the Native American population to a largely African American population?

Hedges: Well, I think we wanted to show this was something happening in both rural and urban areas, and that it was the same system: i.e. the reconfiguration of American society into a Corporate State. We didn't consciously set out to profile different ethnic groups in the chapters, but it just came out that way. Camden of course being largely African American; Native communities in Pine Ridge; poor white communities in southern West Virginia; and Latino communities in the produce fields in Florida. These are all manifestations of the same process. And it's a process by which the American citizen is politically and economically disempowered as the Corporate State creates an Oligarchy, where a tiny percent amass vast fortunes and workers around the globe, in sort of a neo-feudalism, are told that in a global marketplace they must essentially compete with sweatshop workers in Bangladesh who make 22 cents an hour, or prison labor in China. That's the world we've created. We have allowed our manufacturing base to be dismantled because it's more profitable for these corporations to employ sweatshop workers in southern China, who work 70 hours a week, without any sort of protection, or rights. Remember, that's 700,000 workers for Apple, none of them are in the United States. They live in Dickinsonian, 19th Century conditions. That's the world that has been cemented into place by these forces, and the consequences are that whole cities, such as Camden, are virtually abandoned.

At one point, Camden was an industrial center: Campbell Soup was made there; RCA Victor was there; the ship yards there, by the middle of the century, employed over 36,000 people--it's all gone. There's nothing. Whole city blocks are abandoned. And of course people are trapped within these internal colonies, by both the very visible, and not so visible walls of the Prison-Industrial-Complex. So people fall into a kind of despair: the abuse of narcotics and alcohol, in all of these places, was absolutely rampant. In southern West Virginia people would retreat into Oxycontin, or what they call "Hillbilly Heroin." In Camden, on the streets they use a drug called "Wet," which is a mixture of marijuana and PCP; Pine Ridge has an 80% rate of alcoholism. So all of this physical devastation brings with it a kind of human devastation. If they rest of us don't wake up, and begin to resist, the forces that carried out these assaults within these internal colonies, or these sacrifice zones, since they have now been unleashed on the rest of us, we will of course replicate what happened in Biblical terms to our "neighbor." There has been a failure on the part of the Left in this country to stand up to the assault carried out by both the Democrats, and Republicans. Of course, Clinton was one of the worst: he destroyed the welfare system, which under the original welfare system, 70% of the recipients were children; NAFTA, of course, 1994, the greatest betrayal of working class people in this country since the Taft-Hartley Act of 1948, which makes it difficult to organize. You know, the Left, or the Liberal-Class, sort of busied itself with the boutique activism of multiculturalism and gender politics--all of which I support--but forgot about the primacy of justice. And because of that, what's happened to our "under-classes," is now happening to the middle-class

http://www.alternet.org/economy/chr...ions-within-us-are-treated-exploited-colonies
The story of Camden is just soul shattering.

 

[Jams775]

I'm starting to feel like there is some kind of "tower of Babel" situation happening. Is this just some kind of messed up cycle humans go through every 1000 years or something?

Build up a society,
have a time of prosperity,
Shit falls apart, thank greed, hate, stupidity, etc,

go to war over differing ideologies,
destroy society,
repeat.

I guess I'm starting to lose faith in humanity at this point and I'm wondering if we'll ever break out of the cycle.

 

[Cymbal Head]

Again I don't have any facts in front of me right now...it was just me thinking aloud

But doesn't Japan have a very high number of atheists? And isn't their suicide rate high?

I know in Christianity that it is taught that suicide is a sin.. also the hope aspect plays a huge role

What makes you think whites with a high school education are not atheists?

I'll try to dig up some things when I get time

I think your whole line of reasoning is probably wrong, but I just want to point out that the bolded in particular is misguided. Plenty of Christians do things that they are taught are sinful, and I have never met an atheist who would say that suicide is a worthy response to despair.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

The thing is,

They could've chosen the party offering free education, Close-to-universal healthcare, more social security. I.e stuff people struggling to the point of killing themselves might appreciate. Or so you'd think.

Instead, to help themselves, they chose "fuck Mexicans", "taming the nig-, I mean inner cities", "fuck my healthcare because Obamas name is on it", "Betsy don't know shit about education DeVos", and "factory jobs, for everyone!!!!!!".

Do they really want help?

Because I don't see that they really want help. Their main issues seem to be anything but receiving help.

If you're THAT desperate, why is receiving help the ONLY thing you're not willing to do?

 

[greepoman]

Posted this is the another thread but belongs here too. NPR mapped the data:

Really shows how the country was ripe for a con-man like Trump to come along and take advantage.

The Forces Driving Middle-Aged White People's 'Deaths Of Despair'

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I liked Tim Wise's commentary on this.

I believe I heard the church say, "amen."

 

[Trokil]

The thing is,

They could've chosen the party offering free education, Close-to-universal healthcare, more social security. I.e stuff people struggling to the point of killing themselves might appreciate. Or so you'd think.

Sitting at home getting an unemployment check and waiting until the next is not really a better existence and the Democrats have not a good track record in those areas of the country. They became the urban intellectual party. The dropped the rural workers, also because it was not sexy anymore.

Instead, to help themselves, they chose "fuck Mexicans", "taming the nig-, I mean inner cities", "fuck my healthcare because Obamas name is on it", "Betsy don't know shit about education DeVos", and "factory jobs, for everyone!!!!!!".

Do they really want help?

That is such an easy excuse. They voted for Obama because he promised change, the change that never arrived for them. He supported TPP which only made things worse, free trade never was an issue and the wealth gap increased under Obama.
And the argument, at least you get healthcare and unemployment check only shows how little people know. Telling people they will never ever get their job back, but at least they can sit at home is not an improvement,

Because I don't see that they really want help. Their main issues seem to be anything but receiving help.

If you're THAT desperate, why is receiving help the ONLY thing you're not willing to do?

They voted for Bernie, they voted for Obama, but why do they have to be the ones to be loyal, when the politicians are ignoring them. But a lot of people have already decided it is their fault and something about white privilige.

 

[Obliterator]

Posted this is the another thread but belongs here too. NPR mapped the data:

Really shows how the country was ripe for a con-man like Trump to come along and take advantage.

The Forces Driving Middle-Aged White People's 'Deaths Of Despair'

Wow that is a startling and depressing map to look at.

Kinda crazy how much it skyrocketed in California

 

[Mammoth Jones]

When anyone non-white tries to explain this they call us racist, and even when someone like Tim Wise says it they still feel itchy.

This problem will never get better until people admit some things.

Yup. When you've been told your entire life you gonna have it good then you don't it's heartbreaking. When you've known from jump you ain't shit to the country you live in and you gonna have to claw and scrape for a piece of yours then each defeat is no shock.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Sitting at home getting an unemployment check and waiting until the next is not really a better existence and the Democrats have not a good track record in those areas of the country. They became the urban intellectual party. The dropped the rural workers, also because it was not sexy anymore.



That is such an easy excuse. They voted for Obama because he promised change, the change that never arrived for them. He supported TPP which only made things worse, free trade never was an issue and the wealth gap increased under Obama.
And the argument, at least you get healthcare and unemployment check only shows how little people know. Telling people they will never ever get their job back, but at least they can sit at home is not an improvement,



They voted for Bernie, they voted for Obama, but why do they have to be the ones to be loyal, when the politicians are ignoring them. But a lot of people have already decided it is their fault and something about white privilige.

If getting a check is not a good existence, then why the hell would you decide to support the party who hates the fact that you can AT LEAST get that when your on your last legs?

This is a thread about people literally killing themselves because they're apparently struggling so much.

How does voting for a party who are more than happy for you to have even less than you have now, when you already have so little that you want to die, help you?

I am making the point that social securities HELP people who are on the edge, and can HELP them survive till they can get off of it.

A welfare cheque isn't a job, but it also isn't eating out of a trash can. Healthcare isn't a job, but at least it isn't selling your house to pay for a broken bone.

Free education isn't a job, but at least it isn't a house purchase deposit worth of debt by the time you're ready to get your first real job.

If you are a person who has nothing, supporting the party who thinks the welfare you already have is too much and is against providing you any more support other than giving you a fucking factory job, is IDIOTIC and it always will be.

Like, we are literally in a thread about people struggling so much with life that they want to die, and you're defending their choice to support a party who wants to them to have less by using the argument that healthcare and welfare isn't enough.

IF IT ISNT ENOUGH, WHY IN THE FUCK ARE YOU IN SUPPORT OF THOSE WHO WANT YOU TO HAVE LESS OF IT???

If you need 5 to live, and you can only get about 4.5 if you're lucky with government help, why does supporting people who only think you should only have a maximum of 2 help you? Because they said they're going to turn back time and enrich your life with a factory job that doesn't have any technological or economic relevance anymore unless you're working in a sweat factory? THAT is the light at the end of the tunnel? You rebel against those who want to offer you a chance to gain actual relevant skills for job roles that actually exist, so you can go back to making swords for King Arthur?

Sorry, but your argument seems to consist of criticising dems for not selling effective lies to people who need help, while praising the choice of those who need help to join forces with a party who literally spend their days making sure people get as little help as they can get away with. While also disregarding the importance of social safety nets, yet somehow being sympathetic to those who need them most?

And this isn't just for rust belt workers. This goes for deep red states too where suicide rates are at their highest.

 

[Trokil]

To make this short without any quotes, Hillary wanted to continue to follow the path of Obama, she always said so. Trump at least promised change. So of course they hoped for change. What else should they have done? Getting their unemployment check for 40+ years and die?

For a lot of people even a terrible job is still better then having no job at all.

 

[TyrantII]

Why? The answer of the Democrats for this was for years: well, sucks to be you.

Bernie tried to change that, that is why he won those states but also people accused him that he is throwing minorities under the bus.

Democrats have no plan to change this and they are also not really interested because they believed the demographic shift will make them unstoppable anyway.

You new to Politics boy?

 

[bill0527]

To be fair, this is beyond partisan politics.

It's a world that is moving too fast economically for these communities to stay competitive.

The biggest issue is that these rural towns are cut off from huge economic hubs--cities.

Not everyone need to live in a city per se, but suburbs surrounding bigger cities do way better than these nowherevilles locations, where access to education, jobs, and opportunities are limited.

Not only that this places are insular, so you're not going to meet advisors and mentors to help you get out. At least there's the Internet these days.

Moreover, anyone in the medical field will tell you that these rural communities are underserved. A hot shot doctor or medical professional doesn't want to move bumblefuck. This is why many offer tuition forgiveness to work in these underserved communities.

It's way more complex than republicans and democrats.

My wife got $60,000 of her medical school debt wiped clean for a 3 year contract at a rural hospital.

And you're right, this issue goes way beyond Republicans and Democrats.

 

[Flux]

It's so strange that in the US the measure of a good or Complete education ends with a high school GED. The barrier to get into university or college is absurd for the average person and everyone else is just swimming in debt.

Will try to read the primary source later.

 

[Frozenprince]

Black suicides were also really high (and still are) and I never heard about the Black suicide epidemic. I wonder why suicide's suddenly important now

LGBT suicide too, in fact both are still higher proportional rates than certain others.

Odd how that works.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

It's so strange that in the US the measure of a good or Complete education ends with a high school GED. The barrier to get into university or college is absurd for the average person and everyone else is just swimming in debt.

Will try to read the primary source later.

I mean education needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. From K-12 to College. The entire curriculum needs to be revamped for the 21st century. Fuck MacBeth, kids need to know how compound interest works, etc...

Sorry but the days of going to work at the factory like dad and grandpa are done. Kids need to be educated for the jobs that exist today.

 

[TankRizzo]

Chart makes it look like Hispanics don't die. Nice work by them.

we live a long life despite our food being cooked in heavy lard in the 80s and mid 90s.