FortuneFaded
Member
When Hispanics are near death, they get on a giant boat and sail off like the elves in Lord of the Rings.
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FT: 'Deaths of despair surge among US white working class
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fredrancour
Member
gutting literature and writing when our democracy is being brought to its knees by a dearth of critical thinking ability and perspective is only gonna make things worse.
more civics, economics, and modern personal finance don't mean burning art education to the ground.
Or it could be just math 10% out of 10 million > 10% out of 100'000 for example. Also male suicide is 4 times higher then female. A lot of odd things are happening in the world you know.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I liked Tim Wise's commentary on this.
This is pretty much exactly the commentary I'd expect from him. Man is very right on some things, but he's the epitome of someone who sees a world as full of nails.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
I liked Tim Wise's commentary on this.
They need jobs, not a lecture in white privilege.
That is the only thing they have to offer, no empathy that is for sure.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
He's providing a commentary on the subject.
A "give them more jobs" post isnt going to give them more jobs either.
Are you only allowed to comment if you're giving people jobs?
How many jobs did you create with this post?
They need jobs, not a widesweeping drive-by post.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Everybody needs jobs.
Who is they?
Obviously some subjects are going to remain pillars of education. Writing, Reading, Math..etc.
I don't know the exact balance of courses. My point is the discussion needs to be had and changes need to be made to education. I'm not saying "fuck art". I am saying "Maybe less European history out the ass and more tangible real life practical skills being taught"
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Then why don't you fly your ass over and hand out some jobs.
The GOP doesn't want education fixed. Keeping people uneducated and with no critical thinking ability is what gives them their base of people to exploit. The states with the worst education systems are almost all red states. The long term goal of corporations and the GOP in this country seems to be modern corporate serfdom or slavery with no middle class. Just the elites and their peasants.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
I mean both can be done in my High School English class we learned Macbeth as well as how to fold clothes so what you are saying is already being done.
Shake Appeal
Member
Seriously.
Let us put an actual tax regime in place on millionaires, billionaires, and the many trillions of dollars of wealth lurking offshore that contributes nothing, helps nobody.
Let us take that money and pump it into public education, job training, free public colleges, universal health care, drug treatment, mental health services, and infrastructure. Without onerous and pointlessly "moralistic" restrictions. Just let us spend the money. Not just in your poor communities, but in every underserved community.
Stop voting to have gasoline poured on your own fucking funeral pyre.
Mammoth Jones
Member
No, it's not. Public school is ass in a lot of areas. I'm glad your school is great and is teaching tangible real world skills and Macbeth. But I stand by my original statement. Fuck Macbeth. Real world skills. They can learn Europe on their own time.
Count Dookkake
Member
If I were conspiracy-minded, I might see this as the beginning of someone's solution to the rise of automation.
Our secret is that our tios are our horcruxes, thus making all latinos immortal by sheer volume.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Why do they deserve empathy?
This is their own doing. Instead evolving they continued voting like it was the 50s. Bit them in the ass and they will continue voting like it is the 50s.
Sorry, it's hard to feel empathy for people that don't wise up.
It is like that other thread about the women whose husband is being deported who voted for trump. Shit don't matter if its fucking other minorities, lgbtq, etc, but once it bites them in the ass, they complain.
Shake Appeal
Member
Teaching literature, history, and the rest of the humanities is essential to helping people better understand their lives and the context in which they are living. The humanities teach us empathy. They enrich our language. They help us understand history, politics, culture, and the other nebulous forces shaping our worlds. They help us appreciate our humanity — and others' humanity — far beyond the scope of doing work and getting paid.
Those are "real world skills," too.
Exactly.
This is not to deny white privilege exists, but people need to understand the viewpoint of rural America and the problems that come along with these type of arguments. So many people in rural America live in shacks, broken down mobile homes, leaking trailers, and the like. They struggle to find jobs, access to education is broken, and communities are crumbling. So when this group gets lectured on their privilege they are going to scoff when they see it comes from people who live in the city or cozy suburbs, where access to jobs, education, and large amounts of expendable income are readily available. Then you add on that people generalize entire regions with derogatory terms (hillbilly, redneck, deplorable, etc) and point at these people and laugh, or wishing they would die off as suggested in a previous thread here, it is no wonder they are being driven to drugs and suicide.
Honestly, there is a lot at play here. Trying to pin it down to one aspect such as white privilege is being disingenuous altogether. It is more likely that this is related to a perfect storm of issues ranging from education, job availability, the decline of family and communities, politics, cultural differences between regions, etc.
Here is a tweet chain I recommend checking out. It links to a couple of articles that actually talk to people in these regions.
https://twitter.com/Chris_arnade/status/828955557268701189
Trump likes people who don't commit suicide.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Probably because it's become fashionable to decide that they're all racist and bad people for voting for what they perceive to be their own interests.
For the most part, those things aren't an issue. Cost of living in these areas is dramatically cheap—the flip side is that there are far fewer jobs now, and jobs that remain are higher-skilled.
I see this sentiment a lot in education, basically that "it's the liberal arts' fault", and I can't agree with it. You need to know addition, multiplication, and subtraction for the real world. But you also need to understand rhetoric, logic, grammar. There's a reason why the "liberal arts" were valued by the Greeks as necessary for a citizen participating in affairs of the state.
The problem is that it's harder to test the "soft" disciplines, and so they are easy to cut. If we're looking at the problems with the school system it should probably be on the basic metrics of why are so many graduating while still being barely literate. And the solution to those isn't cutting MacBeth.
Because everybody does, not just people you like. That is what makes you decent human beeing.
So it is their fault, that they chose a path 30 years ago and now are in their 50s and now should all become IT supporters or bankers. If they can not afford bread let them eat cake.
The Democrats don't support them either, they just let them die slower. There is no choice for them, because Democrats don't care about them. This election they even told them to go away, because they will win anyway. So why should they vote for Democrats who only care for them, when they want to win an election and call them deplorables the rest of the 4 years. They have no moral obligation to choose them as long as they get nothing back, just because they life in places what Democrates like to call fly over states.
Frozenprince
Banned
Oh the poor babies. They're​ the only ones suffering.
Everybody needs jobs, support structures, stable situations.
This isn't a unique thing. Addressing the factors unique to the situation is the only way anything will get better.
Apparently they are not suffering, because of the color of their skin and it was their fault, they chose the wrong job 15, 20 or 30 years ago.
Frozenprince
Banned
Where has anybody said or implied that? Please.
Enlighten me, a poster asking you why someone hewing a situation of their own making is not the same as implying that they aren't suffering.
Quoted text by Wise and look up four posts above yours.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Your patronising attitude to fairly concerning evidence of people dying and suffering due to economic circumstance is striking.
Frozenprince
Banned
Ah but your patronizing attitude when discussing race in regards to systemic class based barriers isn't though.
The white rural working man is not the only one suffering because of economic downturn and drug abuse. To address issues beyond their economic malaise is not to lack empathy for their situation.
Actually it was a Democrat who destroyed probably more black lives with his drug laws than most Republican presidents did.
Just voting may not change anything, it even may be against your own interests.
Your church provided you with one more outlet of community. If you were having personal problems, you could talk to your priest (especially Catholicism via Confession), if you fell on hard economic times, you might benefit from a special collection at mass. Faith alone is not enough (since churches are often already doing a lot for the poor and can't handle a heavier load, especially if their own congregation is getting poorer), but it was a piece of the puzzle.
(this coming from an atheist, by the way).
I'd bet that Democrats have something to do with those declining "deaths of despair" numbers for minorities. Not all of it, but part of it.
Edit: Mostly to say that PoCs are still suffering, but their suffering is proportionately less than it was 30 years ago, while whites proportionately are suffering more.
nephilimdj
Member
I liked Tim Wise's commentary on this.
How can anyone even take this serious? how do you take quantitative data and push this kind of agenda
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Hopefully there's some way to halt the decline of rural areas in your country.
It disproportionately affects White and Native Americans because that tends to be the only groups that live there (aside from parts of the Southeast).
Everyone deserves a living wage.
Identity politics won't fix this.
It disproportionately affects White and Native Americans because that tends to be the only groups that live there (aside from parts of the Southeast).
Everyone deserves a living wage.
Identity politics won't fix this.
*bigly
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
No doubt, but they seem to die more than anyone else (all of a sudden too) and this seems to be an issue in only one country. Then I look at the black number and I see it has always been insanely high (though it decreased and is now lower). It is puzzling to see quantitative data like this and as a foreigner I can't put my finger on how this could happen. It baffles me.
It's clear that everyone is hurting right now. Hopefully some sort of solution that isn't bootstraps can be figured out in the future. Best wishes.
”Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."― J.M. Barrie
At the bare minimum, the agenda is saying that white people don't realize the reality of not being white. It's not the end of the world to not have a job. Just like it's not the end of the world to not be hired because of an ethnic sounding name, or that you're illegaly in the country. You face hurdles and have to adapt to survive in a white dominated world.
If you're told all your life that things are going to be one way, then it turns up bust, what else is there for you when you haven't known any other options? It is in fact the end of the world to a lot of people. They believe it. No hope. That leads to depression and escapism through drugs and alcohol.
It's not a knock, and it should be seen as more or less hope, that you can make it without a societal upper leg. But I can see how it can be taken the wrong way if you focus on turning it into something incendiary.
Truth be told, all poor people and lower class people have the same thing in common. They want a decent quality of life, and to have a healthy family. That goes across party lines. But, one group actively votes to make things harder for others, which in turn, makes things harder for them. It's not impossible to see why this causes animosity.
i just find it incredibly hard to find room in my limited life for empathy for the group that ruins our country the hardest.
there can be no doubt that they are suffering, and this i recognize. but i won't pretend like the middle aged white demographic hasn't betrayed themselves, the country, and the entire human race. death is unfortunate, to be sure.
there can be no doubt that they are suffering, and this i recognize. but i won't pretend like the middle aged white demographic hasn't betrayed themselves, the country, and the entire human race. death is unfortunate, to be sure.
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