• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Game developer poll finds interest in iPhone increasing, Wii decreasing

I didn't think it was possible for developer interest in the Wii to decrease.


...oh, wait, this is developers who had games "in the works" for the Wii, and now don't. That doesn't really mean they were interested in the Wii. A lot of them thought they could use it to turn shit into cash...and now they think the iPhone does that.
 

jman2050

Member
Leondexter said:
...oh, wait, this is developers who had games "in the works" for the Wii, and now don't. That doesn't really mean they were interested in the Wii. A lot of them thought they could use it to turn shit into cash...and now they think the iPhone does that.

Nail on head
 

rezuth

Member
P90 said:
What/who is Gameloft? What games has Gameloft made? Jus' wonderin'...
Halo clone - NOVA
Diablo clone - Dungeon Hunter
Fifa clone - Real Football
Modern Warfare clone - Modern Combat
Need for Speed clone
Driver
Skate clone - Skater Nation
Earthworm Jim
Mario cart clone - Shrek Cart
God of War clone - Hero of Sparta
etc
 
Bugbite said:
The survey is bunk: the only reason developers would leave the fastest-selling console ever is because they wanted to, not because the market wills it.

In most cases, it's publishers. i'd imagine few dev teams have enough clout to make whatever they want.

There is a general malaise around the Wii though from devs/pubs both eastern and western.
 
V

Vennt

Unconfirmed Member
P90 said:
What/who is Gameloft? What games has Gameloft made? Jus' wonderin'...

They're responsible for one of the games I've spent more time playing than any other title on any other portable for the last 12 months:

lets-golf-main-picture.jpg

lets_golf.jpg


Great golf game, good touch controls, great graphics. A+
 

Opiate

Member
Kilrogg said:
I'd like your take on this, as I respect you and your opinions very much: how come developers would shun 2 platforms that are all about novel controls, de-emphasis on graphics/immersion and fairly reasonable development costs (or, in the case of the DS, very low costs), and are both extremely successful dedicated platforms designed to reach out to new audiences, only to support another successful platform (the iPhone) which more or less shares the same values (low costs, novel accessible controls, etc.)?

By the way, I expect the same outcome. Just trying to make sense out of it.
The bottom line is: I think most publishers are losing money on their Wii and DS efforts, and making money on iPhone, ps3, 360 and PC.

If you want to know WHY that's true -- that is, why publishers seem incapable of profitting on Wii and DS, which absolutely are successful platforms -- I think those platforms dont suit their black and white views. Major publishers seem to be the primary drivers and creators of the core/casual divide: the Wii and DS are deliberately trying to straddle both. They aren't as cheap and casual as the iPhone, and aren't as powerful and "core" as the PS3. I think most publishers understand the market better when they cleanly separate the two demographics, and an iPhone/Xbox support method makes it easy to say, "this game is super cheap and for casuals," or "this is a big epic game for the core." It makes the world simple and organized. I just don't think they ever wrapped their heads around the Wii or DS, by and large.
 

Bugbite

Banned
velvet_nitemare said:
In most cases, it's publishers. i'd imagine few dev teams have enough clout to make whatever they want.

There is a general malaise around the Wii though from devs/pubs both eastern and western.

I can get behind that. The general malaise around Wii stems from developers' inability to make arcade-style games, though. I think the concept that the user must be having fun within 30 seconds of starting the game is lost on developers who are used to slow, cinematic style introductions to their games. Local multiplayer has also taken a major backseat to online play this generation. Games aren't made with two players on the same screen in mind anymore.
 

Fredescu

Member
PC gaming still dead: "Just over 70 percent of developers said they were developing at least one game for PC or Mac (including browser and social games), rising slightly from last year; 41 percent reported working on console games."
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Opiate said:
The bottom line is: I think most publishers are losing money on their Wii and DS efforts, and making money on iPhone, ps3, 360 and PC.

If you want to know WHY that's true -- that is, why publishers seem incapable of profitting on Wii and DS, which absolutely are successful platforms -- I think they Dont suit their black and white views. Major publishers seem to be the primary drivers and creators of the core/casual divide: the Wii and DS are deliberately trying to straddle both. They aren't as cheap and casual as the iPhone, and aren't as powerful and "core" as the PS3. I think most publishers understand the market better when they cleanly separate the two demographics, and an iPhone/Xbox support method makes it easy to say, "this game is super cheap and for casuals," or "this is a big epic game for the core." It makes the world simple and organized. I just don't think they ever wrapped their heads around the Wii or DS, by and large.

Note: I'm not ignoring gerg in this reply, as you both make essentially the same point.

You're probably right, Opiate. If we leave the Wii out of the debate for a moment though, the whole DS situation still makes me scratch my head. Although it's true that it tries to pander to multiple audiences, the costs, I imagine, are still very low, aren't they? Besides, I can understand (sorta) ignoring the Wii, but why ignore the DS with its continued record-shattering sales? If the Wii is a juggernaut, the DS is the second coming. The DS has been out for so long with practically no signs of slowing down. It also provides both traditional controls and a very functional touch-screen. So why? I see your point, I really do, but to me, it applies mostly to the Wii. The DS isn't really a middle-ground solution, except maybe for its inferface and its physical distribution of games. Besides, Japanese developers have shown that it's possible to find success with traditional games (J-RPGs) and expanded audience games (Cooking Mama, Professor Layton).

I wonder if this isn't all a matter of perception (beyond the simple black and white divide you rightfully mention) in the end. Namely, that Apple has been so successful ever since the iPod gained momentum, and that Nintendo has often been pictured as this weird gluttonous company that will die sooner or later. I might be wrong of course, but at some point, I do have to wonder if this line of thinking is confined to forum dwellers or if it really permeates the industry as a whole, and more specifically Western companies.

Also, I don't dispute the bottom line. Indeed, all I wonder is the why (thanks for addressing it), as the what and how seem very obvious by now.
 

Opiate

Member
I think the DS' problem is less development cost and more distribution cost. While games may be cheap to actually develop, it requires extensive work to get those games on the shelf in multiple major retail chains and into different territories. That problem is essentially nonexistent for the iPhone or any DD platform.
 

Firestorm

Member
Vinci said:
Well, you know... they have a Vision and... art... need more processing... and HD graphics...
Eh, I think the Wii just wasn't different enough for them. Games that aren't like 360/PS3 games get called out for being "gimmicky". People keep asking for games on the level of 360/PS3 games and devs don't seem to want to make that. the iPhone/iPod Touch are very different platforms for very different games. The games there would fail on every other system we have - including the DS.

It's like, why make a PSP game when it's just meant to do a watered down job of what the HD systems do?
 

Tobor

Member
Opiate said:
I think the DS' problem is less development cost and more distribution cost. While games may be cheap to actually develop, it requires extensive work to get those games on the shelf in multiple major retail chains and into different territories. That problem is essentially nonexistent for the iPhone or any DD platform.

Not only that, but you can move to digital on Apple platforms without retailer backlash, like Sony is facing.
 

Grecco

Member
Vennt said:
They're responsible for one of the games I've spent more time playing than any other title on any other portable for the last 12 months:

lets-golf-main-picture.jpg

lets_golf.jpg


Great golf game, good touch controls, great graphics. A+


Its not that good but Gameloft put it on the appstore for free one day so i aint complaining.
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Developers are "leaving" Wii because there are less work for hire and publishing opportunities for it. That simple.

Many developers are experimenting with iPhone because it is cheap and easy to develop content for it, and potentially a useful way to spend your downtime. However, it is extremely difficult or requiring of a lot of luck to get any kind of significant returns for it. I'm expecting many developers to leave iPhone too, once they have tried putting out a couple of titles.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Mario said:
Developers are "leaving" Wii because there are less work for hire and publishing opportunities for it. That simple.

Many developers are experimenting with iPhone because it is cheap and easy to develop content for it, and potentially a useful way to spend your downtime. However, it is extremely difficult or requiring of a lot of luck to get any kind of significant returns for it. I'm expecting many developers to leave iPhone too, once they have tried putting out a couple of titles.

One man studios aside, major publishers EA and Ubisoft are making major investments and are doing the best of all.
 

The Hermit

Member
You can see right now that the Iphone is getting a lot of support and I expect it to increase, yet, I doubt this will affect Wii sales at all.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Opiate said:
I think the DS' problem is less development cost and more distribution cost. While games may be cheap to actually develop, it requires extensive work to get those games on the shelf in multiple major retail chains and into different territories. That problem is essentially nonexistent for the iPhone or any DD platform.

I suppose, yeah. Do you think going full-force on the iPhone will prove dangerous (as in, there will be so many games that it will decrease visibility and increase the likelihood of being burnt as a consumer)? Mario seems to think so. I myself I'm on the fence about this, as I don't know the App Store business model and interface very well.
 

rpmurphy

Member
Kifimbo said:
They can't compete with Nintendo and their games. Don't have that problem with Apple.
I guess they missed the memo because some of the most successful 3rd party games directly compete with Nintendo's games...
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Tiktaalik said:
One man studios aside, major publishers EA and Ubisoft are making major investments and are doing the best of all.

You mean for iPhone? Yes, I agree. Publishers are able to bring bigger budgets, franchises/brands, and a scale of portfolio to the table.

If you look at where the Top 100 iPhone games are today versus just a year ago, the marketplace is far more dominated by big publishers now. It makes it much harder for independent developers who are just dabbling or experimenting rather than commiting with a structured plan to see success.
 

onipex

Member
Really? I don't think most of them ever had any interest in the Wii or DS.


Opiate said:
The bottom line is: I think most publishers are losing money on their Wii and DS efforts, and making money on iPhone, ps3, 360 and PC.

Any money they were making on the Wii and DS was most likely put into iPhone, PS3, 360 and PC anyway.

What is really great though is that customers are choosing what systems they want to play games on in record numbers and devs/pubs think that their interest really matter. The DS and Wii selling great without the top third party games shows that they don't matter that much.


Can't wait to see how this all plays out in the end.
 

Haunted

Member
Mario said:
I'm expecting many developers to leave iPhone too, once they have tried putting out a couple of titles.
I'm not even thinking that the massive growth we've seen in the past year on the iPhone market will slow down that much (although there's got to be some sort of plateauing happening in the future, everything else would be unnatural), but it's certainly going to get dominated by different companies and games than the ones that are up there now. Once the big boys get involved more heavily, it'll get tougher and tougher for indies to push through.

edit: just saw that you kinda addressed this point already.

edit²: I mostly love the iPhone for the pricing revolution it's attempting.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
D.Lo said:
Well they gave the Wii their best shot: well resourced, well advertised games by A teams. But their sales were more like they only released unadvertised C-team spinoffs, PS2 ports and shovelware. So no wonder they're dropping the platform that failed their best efforts.

Sarcasm right?
 

Bizzyb

Banned
Kifimbo said:
They can't compete with Nintendo and their games. Don't have that problem with Apple.


So basically they are butt hurt at the fact Nintendo makes gazillions off of Wii and DS with their top shelf games but they can't make the same kind of profits with their shovelware and B-grade (at best) games? Hmmm
 
Opiate said:
The bottom line is: I think most publishers are losing money on their Wii and DS efforts, and making money on iPhone, ps3, 360 and PC.

I agree with you most of the time, but do you really think this is the case? I mean, essentially what we're saying here then is that the amount of money that they're pumping into DS and Wii projects without return is the cause that there are as many major publishers posting losses as there are.
 

jajas2

Member
I don't mind this at all. The problem with Wii software is not too few games, but too many. The wii needs fewer, higher quality games on the platform. So basically the opposite of Ubisoft.
 
And most of the people in this site laughed at me when I suggested that media devices (such as the iPod Touch, iPhone, Android Systems, and soon the iPad) will become a major players in the gaming market.

Give it 5 more years. Mark my words.
 

X26

Banned
3rd parties like making money, and they don't have apple restricting them any way they can on the iphone like they have nintendo doing on the wii, so it's not surprising
 

survivor

Banned
Is Gameloft like the biggest developers for mobiles/iPhone? I always see my friends playing their games on the iPhone.

BTW anyone got any sales breakdowns/data of games for iPhone?
 
Tobor said:
So you decided to get him back by making an even stupider post?

I had to test a series of iPhone/iTouch games for 3 months straight.

It's the equivalent of having your pubic hairs yanked out.
 
The iPhone is filled with more shovelware garbage than every console ever released combined. And the best of the best still barely manages to be anything more than a diversion.

That's what you get when you develop on system(s) with inexact input methods. But gaming will never be reduced to solitaire and minesweeper as long as we have systems like the PS3 and 360. And Nintendo, for that matter. But that's because they build their hardware around their games, not the other way around.
 
krypt0nian said:
They just want an even playing field I suppose. The wii is certainly not that.

No, but it used to be. Then most of the field turned into giant mounds of smelly stuff, and all the people on the field ran, rolled, or slid down to the giant air-conditioned, candy-coated and scented pavilion tent marked "Nintendo" on the biggest remaining poo-free part of the field.
 

Somnid

Member
Once devs blanket the already oversaturated iPhone market in more clones and shitty ports of popular games and that doesn't sell what will they do then?
 

Boonoo

Member
X26 said:
3rd parties like making money, and they don't have apple restricting them any way they can on the iphone like they have nintendo doing on the wii, so it's not surprising

How is Nintendo restricting them in any way on the Wii? If anything it's the other way around.
 
Opiate said:
The bottom line is: I think most publishers are losing money on their Wii and DS efforts, and making money on iPhone, ps3, 360 and PC.

I don't think this is necessarily true as far as the PS360 goes. I'm gonna use Sega as an example. Sega's best selling Winter title was on the Wii and DS(It probably had the smallest development cost too). Unsurprisingly, they posted a profit. Conduit couldn't have cost Sega too much since the game was mostly self-funded. MadWorld couldn't have cost Sega too much either. It, at best, broke even, but, nevertheless, I'm unsure what their expectations were given God Hand on the PS2. The House of the Dead games were a success for Sega, and Sonic games sold best on Nintendo platforms. Yet, it regularly bled money though it didn't this winter.

For another example, see Take Two. An overwhelming majority of their titles have been for PS360. What has happened? They regularly post losses. Moreover, GTA IV DLC hasn't been selling as Take-Two had wished, so that's costing them as well.


Someone mentioned a theory where publishers see Activision's success with MW2 and assume they can reach that. On the Wii and DS, publishers see Nintendo's uber-dominance and assume that success is unreachable cause they are not Nintendo. Moreover, the publishers' prophecies have come to pass since the publishers tainted the pool.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
Chris Remo said:
Yeah. I compiled this survey, and this is pretty much exactly what it reflects.

isn't that pretty much what you want to happen?

as far as i can tell you are a huge proponent of the iphone, yet you despise the PSP/DS/Wii. although you seem to share this view with many of your fellow "journalists"
 
rezuth said:
Halo clone - NOVA
Diablo clone - Dungeon Hunter
Fifa clone - Real Football
Modern Warfare clone - Modern Combat
Need for Speed clone
Driver
Skate clone - Skater Nation
Earthworm Jim
Mario cart clone - Shrek Cart
God of War clone - Hero of Sparta
etc

So, iphone is home for cloned games?
 

Boonoo

Member
Sipowicz said:
isn't that pretty much what you want to happen?

as far as i can tell you are a huge proponent of the iphone, yet you despise the PSP/DS/Wii. although you seem to share this view with many of your fellow "journalists"

I really don't think that's a fair assessment. I didn't get that vibe from listening to Idle Thumbs anyway.
 

T-Matt

Member
Sipowicz said:
isn't that pretty much what you want to happen?

as far as i can tell you are a huge proponent of the iphone, yet you despise the PSP/DS/Wii. although you seem to share this view with many of your fellow "journalists"

He has spoken highly of DS games and wii games.
 
Top Bottom