Support NeoGAF

[dralla]

i still can't believe how gimped the console version is. if its only 24 players why even bother calling it BF3? This and Diablo 3 are going to cost me some serious cash :[

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Facts:
- I have my gaming rig and consoles, I kill people just fine on both kb/m and controller (i use kb/m on my pc)
- Don't down talk people because they decide to play with a controller and that you don't want to game with them as they're a handicap, because I'm positive that kb/m doesn't make you better than those who game with a controller. And I'm sure you'll be a liability to many of them that you game with.

This kb/m vs controller stuff is really tiring anymore, as people can be effective with both, and you, I, or anyone else can be destroyed by someone using "an inferior input device".

So why doesn't it happen? Or are there some guys dominating in Quake Live or TF2 or any other PC FPS with a pad that I'm not aware of?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

As a PC and Console Battlfield gamer, I consider the "Battlefield Experience" to be more related to the multitudes of variations in actual moments of gameplay one can find during a game, and not the game mode we are playing. Whether it be Conquest or Rush, selfless acts of trying to keep your team into the game no matter what your k/d ratio is or how many points you have is what I consider to be the "Battlefield Experience". Regardles of whether you are playing with 24 or 64, it is how you play that defines the experience.

 

[Menelaus]

To be honest, the console players ARE going to shit up BF3, from a purist's perspective. DICE will be forced to make concessions (including Rush mode, for instance) to broaden their appeal to the new class of BF fans.

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs? There's no way BF3 will be a fiscal success without bringing the console fans along. For us BF2 loving PC gamers, this sucks.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

To be honest, the console players ARE going to shit up BF3, from a purist's perspective. DICE will be forced to make concessions (including Rush mode, for instance) to broaden their appeal to the new class of BF fans.

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs? There's no way BF3 will be a fiscal success without bringing the console fans along. For us BF2 loving PC gamers, this sucks.

I have a gaming PC and I am sure DICE will make a great game for Battlefield fans.

 

[rollingstart]

every game should have controller support as an option. I use kb/m in almost every game because my preference for it over dual analog is immeasurable, but if I want to play a game on my TV or something, it is more comfortable and convenient.

Now, you can argue about why I'll be playing Battlefield 3 on my TV, and the answer is that I'll never play Battlefield 3 on my TV or with a gamepad. But it is still an option that should always be standard. I think it's crazy when PC games that have console counterparts don't have proper gamepad support. Even something like Mass Effect 2 doesn't, and that is a slow single player shooter that was designed for the 360 (though, I do appreciate how they added a new interface specific to PC unlike alpha protocol, but it shouldn't be either/or).


As for spotting, just make it the general area. If a sniper is in a building, the building is highlighted. Something like that.

 

[Rorschach]

what is Rush mode?

Battlefield: Counter-Strike.

You have to arm some bombs or defend crates. As they are armed, a new part of the map opens up and you move on to the next area to defend/blow up.

 

[VaLiancY]

I'll give head to everyone at DICE if I get a remake of Gulf of Oman. Jumping off that construction crane all day.

 

[Rorschach]

Things he's refusing to comment on:

• [*]Commander mode
  [*]Battle Recorder on PC
  

If this isn't in, I'm gonna be so fucking pissed. How can you not have commander? Also, squad leaders better fucking be back.

Killcam is stupid.

I'll give head to everyone at DICE if I get a remake of Gulf of Oman. Jumping off that construction crane all day.

A remade Gulf of Oman would be really nice. People got tired of it because it was the demo map, but it was a good map.

 

[Subtervotion]

If this isn't in, I'm gonna be so fucking pissed. How can you not have commander? Also, squad leaders better fucking be back.

Killcam is stupid.


A remade Gulf of Oman would be really nice. People got tired of it because it was the demo map, but it was a good map.

I hope Commander and Squad leaders is in as well. It sounds like too much fun not to bring back.

 

[Unknown One]

To be honest, the console players ARE going to shit up BF3, from a purist's perspective. DICE will be forced to make concessions (including Rush mode, for instance) to broaden their appeal to the new class of BF fans.

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs? There's no way BF3 will be a fiscal success without bringing the console fans along. For us BF2 loving PC gamers, this sucks.

That's up to Dice. This is what I don't get since I use to PC game and now play on consoles. People blaming it on the console players instead of the developers. They are the ones limiting options because they think Console players are idiots, but they also have a choice in making the PC experience much better.

Stop using console players as the Scapegoat and directly blame the developers.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I don't think Dice really has a choice in the matter, but yeah there are some things they need to work on. I'm still baffled that in BC2 the same key you use to disarm also causes you to pick up dropped kits when they could have made them separate. It's just a carry over from the console controls that they apparently didn't feel like changing.

 

[wwm0nkey]

When do you guys usually get your issues of GI in the mail?

 

[Nirolak]

When do you guys usually get your issues of GI in the mail?

Well, mail doesn't come on Sundays, so the earliest we could get this is about 8-16 hours from now.

 

[Nirolak]

Hey a realtime lighting demo for Frostbite 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXVF7q035Y&hd=1

As a note, the original lighting for Mirror's Edge was entirely prebaked, while in this demo it's in full realtime.

 

[Woo-Fu]

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs?

Most likely there will be more PCs capable of playing BF3 adequately than there were of playing BF2.

This late in a console generation is when the PCs start gaining momentum again since all this time they've been getting better while the consoles are frozen in time in terms of hardware.

 

[firehawk12]

Here's a silly question - is it a limitation of the engine that they can get 64 players working on console when MAG seems to be able to handle 128 players fine?

 

[jambo]

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs? There's no way BF3 will be a fiscal success without bringing the console fans along. For us BF2 loving PC gamers, this sucks.

Well there are at least 30 million according to Steam.

 

[G_Berry]

Goddamnit the last thing I want in this game is useless teammates making themselves even more useless by using a gamepad. If this is put in I hope you can filter out servers that allow you to use it.

This is the correct answer. DICE can add anything they want as long as we can filter it.

 

[Nirolak]

Here's a silly question - is it a limitation of the engine that they can get 64 players working on console when MAG seems to be able to handle 128 players fine?

It's a bandwidth limitation due to Microsoft and Sony's bandwidth cap policies.

Since Battlefield has to send data about vehicles and destruction over the internet, it limits the number of players they can have in the game.

If they took out all the vehicles and destruction, they could handle 128 players, but then we would be missing the vehicles and destruction.

 

[The Faceless Master]

To be honest, the console players ARE going to shit up BF3, from a purist's perspective. DICE will be forced to make concessions (including Rush mode, for instance) to broaden their appeal to the new class of BF fans.

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs? There's no way BF3 will be a fiscal success without bringing the console fans along. For us BF2 loving PC gamers, this sucks.

obviously you should start the petitions and boycotts ASAP

 

[derFeef]

To be honest, the console players ARE going to shit up BF3, from a purist's perspective. DICE will be forced to make concessions (including Rush mode, for instance) to broaden their appeal to the new class of BF fans.

BF2 came out, what, 6 years ago? How many of those people still have gaming PCs? There's no way BF3 will be a fiscal success without bringing the console fans along. For us BF2 loving PC gamers, this sucks.

Approximately 90%?

They already showed a good deal of PC dedication. We have zero information whatsoever about the game, the modes, the differences and whatnot.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'd be wary of listening to Demize for anything PC-related. It's possible he had a brain transplant, but he was responsible for nerfing the AT4 launcher, said that PC also had the 25% damage increase, and did not believe that there was a problem with chopper flares until some PC gamers showed visual evidence, among other things.

Doesn't he work on the console versions?

 

[Arnie]

Where's ma Gameinformer content?!

 

[bluedeviltron]

Dice. Guys.

Just press delete on the horrible Bad Company 2 vehicles and File --> Import every BF2 vehicle.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I personally hope there will be some Rush type mode implemented next to the traditional Conquest. It can be infuriating but defending or attacking as a united front can be sublimely gratifying.

 

[dope4goldrope]

I'd be wary of listening to Demize for anything PC-related. It's possible he had a brain transplant, but he was responsible for nerfing the AT4 launcher, said that PC also had the 25% damage increase, and did not believe that there was a problem with chopper flares until some PC gamers showed visual evidence, among other things.

Doesn't he work on the console versions?

He's the Senior Gameplay Designer. He and Locust9 (Lead Gameplay) are the two who will have the biggest weight when it comes time to decide how the game will be played and balanced. What he says is to be taken seriously. That said, if he's human and not above mistake. He's also not to blame if programmers flub the implementation

 

[Sanjay]

It's a bandwidth limitation due to Microsoft and Sony's bandwidth cap policies.

Since Battlefield has to send data about vehicles and destruction over the internet, it limits the number of players they can have in the game.

If they took out all the vehicles and destruction, they could handle 64 players, but then we would be missing the vehicles and destruction.

Is this not the same thing they said about BC2 not being able to handle 64 players? and now they have 64 players, So yeah I for one don't believe this notion at all.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Is this not the same thing they said about BC2 not being able to handle 64 players? and now they have 64 players, So yeah I for one don't believe this notion at all.

Er...they said this about the PC version?

 

[FLEABttn]

It's a bandwidth limitation due to Microsoft and Sony's bandwidth cap policies.

Does anyone know what these caps are, offhand?

 

[wwm0nkey]

Still think the bandwidth caps are fucking stupid -_-

Also did anyone get their GI yet?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Does anyone know what these caps are, offhand?

Were they actually talking about internet bandwidth caps? That makes no sense oO...

I thought they were talking about memory bandwidth or some other stuff.

 

[Raide]

Still think the bandwidth caps are fucking stupid -_-

You would think that a Beta test would be an ideal time to tweak the bandwidth caps. Fire it up to 32 players on console and see how things work. I would happily sacrifice trees and some of the random map trimmings in order to get more players.

 

[Fersis]

Were they actually talking about internet bandwidth caps? That makes no sense oO...

I thought they were talking about memory bandwidth or some other stuff.

Internet bandwidth.
Console OS have net bandwidth reserved for their needs.

 

[poppabk]

Were they actually talking about internet bandwidth caps? That makes no sense oO...

I thought they were talking about memory bandwidth or some other stuff.

The rumor/explanation was that MS and Sony have limits on the amount of bandwidth a game is allowed to use, presumably to allow for a 'standardized' online experience for users on different connections.

 

[FLEABttn]

Were they actually talking about internet bandwidth caps? That makes no sense oO...

I thought they were talking about memory bandwidth or some other stuff.

They're not using the term "bandwidth caps" like how Comcast would. Sony and MS have have upstream bandwidth limitation requirements, so that the maximum amount of upstream bandwidth doesn't ever exceed X KB/s.

What X is is my question.

 

[Metalmurphy]

The rumor/explanation was that MS and Sony have limits on the amount of bandwidth a game is allowed to use, presumably to allow for a 'standardized' online experience for users on different connections.

It's gotta be something else... I mean, they allow MMOs on consoles now that I'm sure use alot more. I mean BC2 peaks at like 7KB/s, usually is around 3KB/s, with 32 players.

They're not using the term "bandwidth caps" like how Comcast would. Sony and MS have have upstream bandwidth limitation requirements, so that the maximum amount of upstream bandwidth doesn't ever exceed X KB/s.

What X is is my question.

I know, but I still find it odd.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Simple answer: because of consoles. Long answer, courtesy of 1943 programmer Gustav Halling: because of consoles' bandwidth limits, and inability to process network data in a speedy manner:

64 players are of course awesome but will all good there is some hurting also. I can assure you that the 24 player limit is not about us being lazy but the experience of a massive battlefield is not bound to the amount of players! And as many of you remember most clan wars where player with 8vs8 or 12vs12 and what we have seen many of the 64-player servers are mostly half-full or having lack of performance.

We have made it sure that Battlefield 1943 will feel big and have a fast pacing, bf1942 actually had very low pacing! If you place 100 people in one room it feels very small, but if you put 100 people on the streets it seems like nothing! 24 players will give us the benefit of having full servers almost all the time and the whole map area is being used!

Beside these design decisions there are technical limitations. There are very restricted bandwidth limits on the consoles and we are networking a lot more then 24 players:

# 24 players are networked
# Almost as many physics driven vehicles with movable and destroyable parts
# All destruction, if a wall is being destroyed on one client we need to update it on all the others, otherwise we could end up with players hiding behind non-existent walls.

If we did remove all destruction and all our vehicles we could have more players. But no other game gives you the wide gaming experience we have!

From an article about why Battlefield 1943 is only 24 players, I imagine this applies to Battlefield 3 as well....



http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/44624/Battlefield-1943-Why-The-24-Player-Limit

 

[Raide]

It's gotta be something else... I mean, they allow MMOs on consoles now that I'm sure use alot more. I mean BC2 peaks at like 7KB/s, usually is around 3KB/s, with 32 players.


I know, but I still find it odd.

I guess they factor in the game + voice comms + all the destruction etc. and base it around the lower connection speeds.

Frontlines managed 50, so DICE could at least manage 32.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Is this not the same thing they said about BC2 not being able to handle 64 players? and now they have 64 players, So yeah I for one don't believe this notion at all.

There was a blog on Battlefield.com about why the PC version of BC2's Frostbite Engine was overly CPU intensive in the final version of BC2. The blog went in depth explaining the Sound Engine for BC2 and how it ran into only a single hardware thread on the CPU and not in software like previous Battlefield games in the past on PC.

That, coupled with the fact that the Engine could not handle more players than 32 with all the sound engine was processing along with the destructibility of the levels without having serious performance issues. This is good reasoning to why PC was limited to 32 in BC2.

 

[wwm0nkey]

You would think that a Beta test would be an ideal time to tweak the bandwidth caps. Fire it up to 32 players on console and see how things work. I would happily sacrifice trees and some of the random map trimmings in order to get more players.

I should probably ask KM (L Twin) about that. Have him on my friends list on XBL and we talk a few times. He usually doesn't speak a word about BF stuff though lol

 

[Raide]

I should probably ask KM (L Twin) about that. Have him on my friends list on XBL and we talk a few times. He usually doesn't speak a word about BF stuff though lol

I know some of the current BC2 maps have vast amounts of trees, mainly for cover but I am sure they could drop the numbers of outside trees that nobody gives a crap about.

 

[Fersis]

Networking bandwidth is stoopid wheres mah new info?! ;-D

 

[FLEABttn]

A quick google search suggests that Xbox Live requires a minimum of 64kbps upstream. That would arguably be the bandwidth constraint that everyone is being hampered by.

64 kbps - 15% for overhead = 56 kbps / 8 = 7KB/s.

If true, that sucks.

 

[macfoshizzle]

i just with they bump up the framerate a lot higher for consoles. at least until i get some money to build a PC

 

[Raide]

A quick google search suggests that Xbox Live requires a minimum of 64kbps upstream. That would arguably be the bandwidth constraint that everyone is being hampered by.

64 kbps - 15% for overhead = 56 kbps / 8 = 7KB/s.

If true, that sucks.

I wonder how that factors in for dedicated servers?

 

[Fersis]

i just wish they bump up the framerate a lot higher for consoles. at least until i get some money to build a PC

Yup, i know its not an easy task but rock solid 30fps would be heaven.

 

[Kibbles]

Got my mail, no Game Informer. =(

 

[Nirolak]

Given the time the mail really should have been out by now, so we might not get this for another day.

Apparently Game Informer has went back to showing off their covers way before they mail out their magazine.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I wonder how that factors in for dedicated servers?

Same downstream, possibly less upstream.