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[GMM]

Blow already said in an interview that zero money was exchanged. Of course marketing and publishing on Sony's platform will be dealt by Sony, and that's a cost that Blow doesn't need to worry about. But, that was a given.

Well, Blow was basicly given a free pass on the fees in exchange for being a posterchild for their new publishing oppotunities. I expect Sony to give us more details at GDC regarding indie development on the PS4. I really hope they go the Apple way on this, but with a higher fee to access the development network.

I would gladly pay 200-500$ or more, in order to get a full SDK and the same tools as the professionals get without the advanced debugging features the expensive dev kits gives you, along with being able to test my software on a retail PS4.

The console development paywall really makes it hard for smaller developers to test their ideas on real hardware.

Actual publishing would still need a pretty high level of quality and therefore the payment to access the SDK should be high enough to keep a lot of the crapware developers off the platform (99$ is far too little).

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

About the whole patching issue.........one major complaint this gen is that developers are pushing out broken games and then rely on patches to fix them after the fact. Limiting the amount of free patches sort of combats this. If the developers could just push out however many patches they want then wouldn't people complain even more about unfinished games being released and then fixed later?

 

[The Nature Roy]

[B]You showed us how you could us...ely to your own PS4. Does that make sense?

 

[Meelow]

So it seems both Nintendo and Sony are pushing for the indie market, wonder if Microsoft will follow through.

 

[The Lamp]

Indeed.I'm surprised so many people failed to realize the true potential they showed with that tech.
Personally i was never really interested in LBP and one of the main reasons for that was the 2D restriction (i'm not a very big fan of 2D platformers anymore) but with this new tech if they give us a 3D space to work on oh boy...the sky is the limit.

I guess I didn't think about that.

A Create Mode level in a new PS4 LittleBigPlanet could show you on your TV screen in your living room, with in-game materials and objects to use overlaying the screen.

You use the move controller to paint your level out in 3D space and make subtle, delicate tweaks in logic/etc. with the controller. Literally sculpt out your own 3D world to play.

I think that's what the Mm demo was trying to showcase but wasn't able to communicate properly. This is clearly what Mm is hinting that they've been working on.

 

[lefantome]

I think in the future every indie developer will be able to develop on ps4 but sony will choose which games to publish, sort of steam like before greenlight.

It's the best way imho, hoping in a wide choice from sony

 

[Portugeezer]

About the PS Vita streaming, is it over wifi or internet wifi?

What I mean is: is it PS4 sending data to router, which streams data to a PS Vita? (like Nvidia shield)

or is it PS4 sending to internet, which you router then sends to PS Vita, i.e. using internet bandwidth?

 

[GMM]

About the PS Vita streaming, is it over wifi or internet wifi?

What I mean is: is it PS4 sending data to router, which streams data to a PS Vita? (like Nvidia shield)

or is it PS4 sending to internet, which you router then sends to PS Vita, i.e. using internet bandwidth?

PS4 -> Router -> Vita

The PSP could also skip the Router all together and directly access the PS3, i would imagine them doing the same.

 

[ALBOFIGHTER]

What are the chances that if you purchase a PS4 game, it will be unlocked for use with Gaikai?

That is, if you're playing a PS4 game on your Vita in your bedroom, you'll just play over your local server. However, if you are on the road, you'll still be able to play that same game, however via Gaikai's servers rather than connecting remotely to your own PS4.

Does that make sense?

In their conference they said they want to be everywhere. If MS gives them enough competition then there's a good chance this will happen for free.

...I hope PSN becomes an indie platform like steam cause if it does, that's pretty huge for Sony. It's hard to believe they are getting everything right. It's like any possible drawbacks you might bring up, Sony is tackling it head on. Truly amazing.

I needed something to convince me to get a console without BC and Sony delivered with 8 gb fast ram, open platform, amazing OS features, better controller, etc. Day 1 without hesitation for me.

I am very impressed with Sony. As someone said, desperate Sony is best Sony

 

[dragonbane]

As someone said, desperate Sony is best Sony

Even more so, Mark Cerny Sony is best Sony. He bridges the West and East perfectly. He probably was the one that talked some sense into Sony's engineers.

 

[Paddington Bear]

What we’ve been doing on PlayStation 3 has been experimentation. We like the idea of cross-platform play and the ability to continue from Vita to your home and play against each other. We will continue that. It was difficult to get PlayStation 3 to do more things because the system was made eight years ago. We’ve been working closely with the PlayStation 4 system software and hardware games to make it easy for developers to do this.

This is super important to remember. I've heard a bunch of people say "they said they could do it with PS3 but they couldn't make it work." That is invalid. Sure they aspired to a lot with the ps3 remote/cross play, but that was essentially tacked onto the system.

PS4 is built on this philosophy.

 

[Rad-]

Indies have been able to self-publish on PSN since the start. This is nothing new, right?

Self pricing is new however.

 

[phosphor112]

Ooooh my. Looks like I know where my next project might be going on... well... I'll push as many platforms as possible, but we'll see. I've been out of "extra" funds lately. =/

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Indies have been able to self-publish on PSN since the start. This is nothing new, right?

Self pricing is new however.

Frozenbyte and Nexon weren't able to, so no, selfpublishing is also new in practice.

 

[Spiegel]

Frozenbyte and Nexon weren't able to, so no, selfpublishing is also new in practice.

http://www.indieblog.org/self-publishing-on-ps3-psn/

https://www.design3.com/industry-insight/gdc-2012/item/2476-self-publishing-on-psn

I don't get why they couldn't publish it themselves. For example, Amanita Design published Machinarium

https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/es-es/cid=EP4360-NPEB00257_00-MACHINARIUM0AAAA

 

[Withnail]

Frozenbyte and Nexon weren't able to, so no, selfpublishing is also new in practice.

Frozenbyte self published the first Trine on PSN. The fact they self published was the reason that game didn't come to XBLA.

There are literally dozens of self published indie games on PSN.

 

[DBT85]

I asked James Marsden at FuturLab on twitter if the self publishing stuff had piqued his interest for the PS4 and his reply was simply "Yessir!"

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Frozenbyte self published the first Trine on PSN. The fact they self published was the reason that game didn't come to XBLA.

There are literally dozens of self published indie games on PSN.

Nope, Nobilis published Trine 1 on PSN. Who knows why, but Frozenbyte has never managed to selfpublish on PSN, and they specifically pointed to it as something new they were able to do on eShop.

Also, Atlus signed up to publish the XBLA port of Trine 1. That deal evolved into Trine 2 on both PSN and XBLA, which is the real reason the first never made it to XBLA.

 

[Gaspode_T]

For the people that self-publish, it’s their product. They are the publisher. They are free to set the price from free to, you know, $30. It’s their fee. For independent publishers we work with, we are the publisher, so we make the final decision, but for our store, it’s very easy to set the price for each product, and it’s easy to make promotions or bundles. It’s very easy to do.

I am really curious whether this is being misinterpreted or not, the way i read it the first time was actually "Well, people who publish out there on the Internet can do whatever they want, but if they want to publish on PSN then it means that we publish the game for them"

In any case, that is what both PSN and XBLA currently do...when a game like Skulls of the Shogun is released on XBLA it means that Microsoft picked up and supported the game from publisher standpoint. When a game is not released from Microsoft it means some other publisher stepped in and did it. I guess Sony has slightly different handling but as far as I knew they would probably ask for some sort of contract on game by game basis.

One of the reasons Microsoft and Sony like to work with publishers is that they help take care of a lot of red tape and process that tends to be a nightmare to work through (this is just my hearsay) - just imagine localization and certification requirements across all the countries these games are released in. However a lot of devs feel this is the console manufacturer's own fault for creating such a burdened system of red tape in the first place, so the onus is on console manufacturers to change and adapt to be more like Apple/Valve (Valve is supposedly open once you are in the pearly gates)

So if they really mean "we will support self publishing of PSN games on PS4 where the indie dev acts as a publisher" it is a quite revolutionary thing, but I can hardly believe it will be as simple as that...It must be something in between having an approval process and having open platform (this is how PS Mobile is set up now right...there is still an approval process) A lot of the dev relations guys were tweeting to e-mail them about self publishing so probably within the Spring timeframe we will hear more details about what the system of publishing an indie game will be like...will the games really be listed side by side with other games? Will they be in an indie section? will they have trophies? etc...

 

[Kenshin001]

I am really curious whether this is being misinterpreted or not, the way i read it the first time was actually "Well, people who publish out there on the Internet can do whatever they want, but if they want to publish on PSN then it means that we publish the game for them"

In any case, that is what both PSN and XBLA currently do...when a game like Skulls of the Shogun is released on XBLA it means that Microsoft picked up and supported the game from publisher standpoint. When a game is not released from Microsoft it means some other publisher stepped in and did it. I guess Sony has slightly different handling but as far as I knew they would probably ask for some sort of contract on game by game basis.

One of the reasons Microsoft and Sony like to work with publishers is that they help take care of a lot of red tape and process that tends to be a nightmare to work through (this is just my hearsay) - just imagine localization and certification requirements across all the countries these games are released in. However a lot of devs feel this is the console manufacturer's own fault for creating such a burdened system of red tape in the first place, so the onus is on console manufacturers to change and adapt to be more like Apple/Valve (Valve is supposedly open once you are in the pearly gates)

So if they really mean "we will support self publishing of PSN games on PS4 where the indie dev acts as a publisher" it is a quite revolutionary thing, but I can hardly believe it will be as simple as that...It must be something in between having an approval process and having open platform (this is how PS Mobile is set up now right...there is still an approval process) A lot of the dev relations guys were tweeting to e-mail them about self publishing so probably within the Spring timeframe we will hear more details about what the system of publishing an indie game will be like...will the games really be listed side by side with other games? Will they be in an indie section? will they have trophies? etc...

You can currently self publish on PSN. It's a good initiative but devs carry the burden of being responsible for their own promotion and I think localisation. So you end up like the developers of Closure and Derrick the Deathfin who sell hardly anything. Without sales figures to back it up as a viable option I'd be reluctant as a dev to jump on board.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Hmmm...I can't imagine that games like Zack Zero sold very well either...

If there wasn't approval process that marketplace would have 1000 or more games on it, so if they allow self publishing it must be something like case by case negotiation?? It seems weird, I want a platform to either be open or not and if it is closed I want curation, if it is open I don't want any curation...having something in the middle is basically not good for gamers and not good for developers. If it is open, it basically turns into an all out marketplace battlefield like in iOS land. If it is closed, well the # of games released is less so less competition and expectations of gamers can be higher. I do think both have some value, but I personally prefer 100% open and still have achievements/trophies

 

[LiquidSolid]

Hmmm...I can't imagine that games like Zack Zero sold very well either...

If there wasn't approval process that marketplace would have 1000 or more games on it, so if they allow self publishing it must be something like case by case negotiation?? It seems weird, I want a platform to either be open or not and if it is closed I want curation, if it is open I don't want any curation...having something in the middle is basically not good for gamers and not good for developers. If it is open, it basically turns into an all out marketplace battlefield like in iOS land. If it is closed, well the # of games released is less so less competition and expectations of gamers can be higher. I do think both have some value, but I personally prefer 100% open and still have achievements/trophies

Seeing as devkits cost thousands of dollars and developers still have to pay all the fees Sony requires (like cert), no. The entry price is way too high for there to be thousands of developers lining up to put their games on the system. It's not comparable to iOS.

 

[Gaspode_T]

This is basically what I meant about case by case, I guess I was thinking about the PubFund program (which is actually pretty cool itself, XBLA team would probably tell you they do similar supporting things when they pick up games like Skulls...who knows about the details...):

Sony also supports developers with their US-only PubFund, an agreement for a back end guarantee against future royalties. This means they'll advance you money upon a game's release and make it back in royalties. Once they've earned back the advance, you keep the rest of the revenue. When used in combination with federal and private grants, a small studio or developer can stay afloat more easily than relying on incremental sales revenue alone. Regulski stressed that PubFund proposals must be unique, must creatively utilize the PS3 or Vita hardware, and should probably be previously unreleased. They get less than 15 PubFund pitches per week, and he insinuated that they're hungry for Vita content

from https://www.design3.com/industry-in...publishing-on-psn/2476-self-publishing-on-psn

 

[Kenshin001]

Hmmm...I can't imagine that games like Zack Zero sold very well either...

If there wasn't approval process that marketplace would have 1000 or more games on it, so if they allow self publishing it must be something like case by case negotiation?? It seems weird, I want a platform to either be open or not and if it is closed I want curation, if it is open I don't want any curation...having something in the middle is basically not good for gamers and not good for developers. If it is open, it basically turns into an all out marketplace battlefield like in iOS land. If it is closed, well the # of games released is less so less competition and expectations of gamers can be higher. I do think both have some value, but I personally prefer 100% open and still have achievements/trophies

I'm actually the opposite. I want open with curation. Devs can self publish, set prices, add changes, but have to meet a certain standard and pass a review. Don't want to see PSN clogged up with thousands of crap games.

 

[Gaspode_T]

That is basically the current system with a difference in methodology of how the curation is done ... whether curation is creative or based on weird rules like Nintendo uses it is still in some way creating barrier to entry...I mean, all you have to do is browse through the Steam Greenlight submissions to see how many weird things out there people are trying to release.

XBLIG proves that you don't need to have a dev kit to release games on a console...and it is still basically the most truly open platform on a console without argument, for good or better it has created some amazing games among some prolifically strange content.

I suppose I would agree with some sort of "open curation" if it is like an improved version of Steam Greenlight where democracy is involved, I dislike the fact that a couple dudes somewhere who look at a single game or concept for like only 5 seconds have the power to decide whether I can play a certain dev's game or not on my console.

Actually - i wish there was basically a blending of retail games and XBLA/PSN style games into one marketplace and then allow self publishing there from established studios who can pass some sort of standard criteria...this is something that is really hard to implement in a fair and consistent way. But basically I would love for a company like Cave in Japan to be able to self publish a retail level shooting game on a downloadable marketplace and not have to worry about whether they can price it $10 or $39 or whatever they want to...and at this point there is not much point in having separate arcade and retail game sections...they already blend together enough with current generation...