LOL. That's sort of the beauty of a movement like this though isn't it? People can always claim that those people aren't apart of the movement or that the movement doesn't support those actions. There's really no way of proving whether the threats came from the movement unless it was posted in the hashtag so they can always say they aren't responsible which is why his "the threats didn't come from gamergate" rings kind of hallow.
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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism
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LOL. That's sort of the beauty of a movement like this though isn't it? People can always claim that those people aren't apart of the movement or that the movement doesn't support those actions. There's really no way of proving whether the threats came from the movement unless it was posted in the hashtag so they can always say they aren't responsible which is why his "the threats didn't come from gamergate" rings kind of hallow.
You can also add in her purple and green color scheme being based off of a rape joke meme called Piccolo Dick/Daily Dose.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Learning that Shermer was a piece of shit was such a downer, since I learned that shortly after finishing up his otherwise excellent book Why People Believe Weird Things. So disappointing.
At least Phil Plait and Neil DeGrasse Tyson are still awesome, right? I think if I learned about them doing something horrible I'd be genuinely devastated because they come across as so nice and genuine.
(Sorry for the off-topic.)
VibratingDonkey
Member
I think by taking those tweets out of context and grouping them together, it looks like something it isn't. The missing context would be the tweets immediately preceding the last one in that image.
https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/528298632693698560
https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/528297650320601089
So the first tweet in that image is regarding Zoe Quinn not wanting to do an interview, and I get the impression the second tweet is meant to be addressed to those who are harassing people.
partyphone
Banned
yeah they're cool. you should also check out PZ Myers. he's a really good progressive voice in atheism and has been against gamergate since learning about it(which is pretty cool for an old college professor but I guess that's me being ageist or something): http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/10/23/rage-more/
Wikipedia says it better than I ever could: Rape culture is a concept that examines a culture in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.
As for what has to be done? I guess all we can do is push for feminists ideas, and try to reason with people. We can't force it on people. At least driving a conversation is good so that when the next generation comes around with a fresh mind, they start out with a more humanist oriented mind set.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah I'm familiar with PZ Myers. I don't check out his blog or anything much, but he seems okay, yet for some reason most of the folks at the JREF loathe him. Probably too "SJW" for their liking... e_e
She deleted her Twitter account and that article because of the threats, this teenage girl who sounds rad as fuck was hounded with threats because "ethics".
Not sure if you should really not share that around if the original creator deleted it. And their account. Especially if they are already feeling that sort of fear.
But yeah the gatekeeper thing is not wrong.
Edit:
Well fuckity fuck. Another one for the fucking folder.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I think the best part... and around the time I had to just stop was when he actually said with no irony that because Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian weren't journalists, there was no way their harassment could come from gamergate. I think I got a concussion from the force of my head slamming into my desk.
jim-jam bongs
Member
That Aryan mascot. Surely now GG people will realise they're the bad guys, right?
RIGHT?
RIGHT?
I saw their thread on /pol/ina
they say shes inaccurate and put pictures of the real /pol/ina which is the girl in a WWII german(?) uniform
so
no
tonysidaway
Member
In some of porn images she has a penis. I think futanari porn is lovely and I'm no gender determinist, but here the significance seemed somewhat sockish to me and I had to laugh.
Well she's very brave, and I hope things turn out better. All this crap has been a real downer for girls and women in the industry. A lot of the passion I had for the gaming community has been sapped from this ordeal.
Yeah, I like his blog, and I am friends with many of the regular commenters. I met some of them in real life too. Very awesome people.
tonysidaway
Member
False flag!
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Okay, I get that.
I wouldn't say that a push for exclusive feminist ideas is the right thing.
The first thing that came to my mind when I read the definition of rape culture above is how people talk and even laugh about the fact that people are raped in prisons.
I'm quite baffled by that.
I'm baffled by the american prison system in generall, but people joking about other people getting is hard to understand.
The second thing that came to mind was the sick attitude some people have that its somehow okay to rape drunk girls since they choose to get drunk or the victim blaming alá "you had it coming with that skirt".
Thats probably because I watch Laci Greens videos and she talks about this stuff sometimes. Its not really a issue thats discussed over here in germany though.
Thats the right approach.
I think if you want to reach everyone you mustn't take an exclusive approach.
I think Emma Watsons UN speech hit the nail on the head.
Edit: By that I want to say that I think that the stuff Anita Sarkeesian, Suey Park and others are doing is counter productive to their cause.
tonysidaway
Member
I've redacted my copy of the link due to privacy concerns. I'd appreciate it if others would delete it too. It was a mistake to post an archive link for an account now deleted. There is a non-negligible chance that the writer could be traced and harassed. My apologies to all.
VibratingDonkey
Member
That would be pretty absurd. In the context of the tweet where TB says refusing to do an interview is fine by him, it becomes really absurd. Hence I think interpreting it as TB saying Quinn's harassment of Pakman is disgraceful, and that she's close-minded, trying to hide the truth and has no interest in dialogue what-so-ever, is absurd.
That's an understatement, to say the least. Misogyny is astonishingly difficult to explain well. The best and most comprehensive attempt I have ever seen is Jack Holland's, in his final chapter of "A Brief History of Misogyny: The World's Oldest Prejudice".
Stupidity clearly doesn't work because there are far too many intelligent misogynists.
I second Mumei's recommendation of Julia Serano, but everyone should also check out Holland's book. Here's an example that some might find germane:
A little later, he gets into just how complex and difficult the problem really is:
His answer to this question is worth reading. I can't possibly summarize it but much of it has to do with how dualistic systems of thought are unfavorable to women due to how they have to address the realities of sex and procreation.
I not at all shocked to learn that PZed is part of the Anti-GG conspiracy. The man has been a skeleton for years, he's who I learned the word 'cisgender' from.
Deleted. Its ok everyone makes mistakes, and without context linking that wouldn't seem like a bad thing at all.
Then who is he referring to? Random people are trying to hide the truth and not willing to come to the table? Those are pretty pointed words that would seem to be aimed at someone that's part of the actual story and not random people.
Are GG twitter accounts still being suspended?
Hmmm, do you mean that women are seen in more of a black and white sort of way? I guess I should look at this book. >__>
A couple of other "Anti" people were asked by Parkman but turned down. For example Chris Kluwe. He may be commentating on the over all "Anti" trend of not giving Parkman the time of day because he gives equal platform to #GG.
Turning down interviews is a pretty big leap to harassment claims.
Not defending him, just saying he's probably not considering he's pointing a finger out at anyone and particular and is just going "the other side are not treating Parkman with respect!"
however it does come across as fingering Zoe, even if it wasn't his intention.
his hyperbole is bullshit though :T
Yea, that was roughly when I stopped listening as well. I said "Are you fucking kidding me?" at my own computer screen.
I mean I shouldn't have been surprised, given that I forced myself to listen to that podcast he did with Jenni Goodchild a while back. I think there's still a palm print on my forehead that I got from listening to that...
We're talking about metaphysical, philosophical, and theological dualisms of Western thought. Man vs. Nature being one of the most pertinent and stubborn. Women often get caught on the wrong side of that divide, perceived as a continual reminder of sex, birth and death.
You sometimes see the sentiment that a person would be on the 'side' of GamerGate if only it wasn't for the media presenting them badly (with Felicia Day it came up a lot, even though the thing that scared her off initially was the harsh response after tweeting one time to Jenn Frank in support when GG went after her). In a comment on a Zoe Quinn interview.
Sure, if only Zoe Quinn knew wasn't misled by the media, if only she knew was GamerGate was really about, she'd be a supporter!
Sure, if only Zoe Quinn knew wasn't misled by the media, if only she knew was GamerGate was really about, she'd be a supporter!
tonysidaway
Member
The podcast is here. It's a BBC World Service programme so it's mainly intended for overseas listeners. Zoe gets around a minute, and then Sargon witters disingenuously, saying this has nothing to do with Gamergate and that in fact they're working as hard as they can to track down the terrible people who are doing this horrible thing. It's as if somebody handed him a script of the bad guy's "nothing to do with us" lines from a gangster movie but he wasn't familiar with the genre so he just read it out without checking.
BBC World Service - Tech Tent - 31 October, 2014 download (12 MB)
The Gamergate segment starts at about 12'30".
The interviewer, Dave Lee, has been one of the BBC's principal reporters on Gamergate (if not _the_ main Gamergate reporter for the BBC). He's being fair but he obviously isn't going to say "We were wrong" on the basis of this weak denial, and it will get the treatment it deserves.
The BBC recently adopted a hard line against false balance in science, after the BBC Trust criticised them for the travesty of Global Warming "balance" that gave equal weight to scientists and an industry lobby group. I wonder if this new approach is bleeding through to their tech reporters. It wouldn't surprise me.
And ofcourse, a bunch of GG people are happily defending him.
The framing on that is fundamentally abhorrent. Someone is taking pride in their own sadisic pleasure at the witness of this distress.
"Skeleton"? What's a skeleton in this context?
Reference to a popular browser addon that turns the word SJW into skeleton, for giggles. So, basically, a Social Justice Warrior.
And it's not just a random GamerGate person, that's MundaneMatt with 18,000 followers.
If you want to see MundaneMatt having his own mental breakdown in reponse to StopGamergate2014 a couple weeks ago, it's pretty impressive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEv-zt47yM&list=UUxXUQuvoiIAlpM2osoAitjQ
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
It's really funny when somebody who has that addon posts an image they took of twitter or 8chan.
VibratingDonkey
Member
I believe people are reporting those tweets (I know I did), so that one account of his ought to be suspended relatively soon, probably on the same day he sets up a new one. :\
It's as Corpekata says. PZ really does prioritize social justice in his blogging and his interacton with atheist, skeptical, and scientific communities, so I didn't feel right about using the pejorative three letter acronym, even in jest.
He was very quick to point out early on during 'elevator-gate' that the strength and viciousness of the pushback against a fairly mundane call for empathy and awareness of how others might perceive your actions was itself a clear sign that there was a problem worth making a statement about in the first place.
I really wonder to what degree people sending rape/death threats are zealously devoted to this antifeminist cause, how many are simply convinced that the games industry is in distress, and how many are just trolls who like causing chaos.
Have there been any kind of studies done on internet trolls?
Have there been any kind of studies done on internet trolls?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Oh, yes.
I was quite enamored with him because of that. I had been reading him for years before that, but how people in atheism reacted to that ugly episode was something of a litmus test for me. And he was honestly one of the few popular, older, male figures in the community who took a strong stand against the misogynistic paroxysm.
tonysidaway
Member
And here we are today, looking down at a new bunch of misogynists who have found yet another ant hill to die on. This is what progress looks like.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Me too. It's so weird for me to see links to freethoughtblogs and we hunted the mammoth in this thread. My gamer, atheist, and raging feminist worlds are colliding. It's depressing though that it's gamergate that's causing the collision.
Alcoremortis
Member
I didn't know that atheism had an online community until today and now, I kinda regret that changing. It feels like the first time I went on /v/ and walked into a thread devoted to bashing girl gamers.
Goodbye, piece of my faith in humanity...
Goodbye, piece of my faith in humanity...
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