Does it matter? MS still gave it to them for free.
straw man nonsense. especially insulting seeing as you've read that piece by fartofwar.
Folks, please don't all jump on my throat for this, but what exactly is wrong with unboxing a collector's edition so people can see what's inside and decide whether or not they want to buy it?
It's hardly investigative journalism, but it seems like a useful service to readers who want to get a visual on what's inside those things.
Microsoft PR literally bought that article: if they hadn't sent that to Kotaku the unboxing would have never happened. This piece is an infomercial.
This whole ordeal has revealed that the PR/journalist symbiosis is worse than we thought--the press doesn't even realize they are being manipulated. If Microsoft came to Totilo and said "Make a video advertising Halo 4" he would have been incensed. Instead they give him freebies knowing how he's going to react.
Funnily enough, even though I knew of Kotaku a while back, I didn't know about Jason or that he even worked for Kotaku... until I saw
http://jasonschreier.com/2011/12/11/spike-vgas/
Because I liked this blog post and really enjoyed reading it after watching the VGAs.
Off topic I know but with the mention of his blog, this was the first thing I thought of honestly.
I think where it ends up ultimately does matter.
To be fair, making money is what anyone would want for their ad-supported site. The problem is that in general the game media behind that site is quite shady with regards to media ethics and its relationships with the PR end of entertainment corporations.
Schreier is getting pinata'd at this point, guys. Once his boss publicly announces that he doesn't believe the story is a story, further engagement on his end and our end becomes some tail-chasing stuff.
The discussion might be better served if it turns more to what Rab was getting at: instead of finding examples, and then hitting them with sticks until candy-colored excuses come pouring out of their keyboard, using those examples to paint a picture of the greater problems at hand. The primary problem seems to be large numbers of people given the opportunity to write extensively about games, gaming culture, and the games industry, don't largely come from any real journalistic background, and are learning as they go, in a pretty inefficient way. A lot of the people currently drawing paychecks at game websites have gotten their understanding of how journalistic responsibility works only by watching people get caught doing wrong. It's the equivalent to kids running through a gauntlet of stoves, intermittently slapping their hands on the hot orange coils.
Again - the best example I can think of regarding games writing comes from a guy, Tom Bissell, who did NOT come up through the sphere of "Games Journalism." The more important question to me is how do organizations pull more people along those lines into their ranks? How do you increase the numbers of potential writers who see game websites as more than simply a pit-stop on the way towards being drafted INTO PR from a game company?
Hey Shurs, I got a leaked new xbox 720 for you. Just make a fancy article and video showing it off and saying how awesome it is. BTW, I don't care what happens to it afterwards. Do whatever you like.
- Love MS
Is there a way to forward this comment to every games journalist in the world?
It is a thing of beauty.
Totilo doesn't fit your profile at all. He comes from a background in journalism at a pretty prestigious institution I believe. There is something more endemic in the gaming culture, I think, that facilitates this type of attitude/behavior.
Totilo holds a masters' degree from Columbia University's graduate school of journalism.
Schreier is getting pinata'd at this point, guys. Once his boss publicly announces that he doesn't believe the story is a story, further engagement on his end and our end becomes some tail-chasing stuff.
The discussion might be better served if it turns more to what Rab was getting at: instead of finding examples, and then hitting them with sticks until candy-colored excuses come pouring out of their keyboard, using those examples to paint a picture of the greater problems at hand. The primary problem seems to be large numbers of people given the opportunity to write extensively about games, gaming culture, and the games industry, don't largely come from any real journalistic background, and are learning as they go, in a pretty inefficient way. A lot of the people currently drawing paychecks at game websites have gotten their understanding of how journalistic responsibility works only by watching people get caught doing wrong. It's the equivalent to kids running through a gauntlet of stoves, intermittently slapping their hands on the hot orange coils.
Again - the best example I can think of regarding games writing comes from a guy, Tom Bissell, who did NOT come up through the sphere of "Games Journalism." The more important question to me is how do organizations pull more people along those lines into their ranks? How do you increase the numbers of potential writers who see game websites as more than simply a pit-stop on the way towards being drafted INTO PR from a game company?
I posted on the last page that I think it's funny that the fan site proprietors and writers -- ones who post and maintain threads on GAF promoting products that they will ultimately receive for free -- seemingly get a free pass when sites where the swag matters less because they actually pay their writers are the ones who take the brunt of the criticism.
Not just in gaming culture. Proper journalism isn't where the money is nowadays.Totilo doesn't fit your profile at all. He comes from a background in journalism at a pretty prestigious institution I believe. There is something more endemic in the gaming culture, I think, that facilitates this type of attitude/behavior.
They don't garner as much attention by being small fries, but you're right to point them out too. It's a pervasive issue.I posted on the last page that I think it's funny that the fan site proprietors and writers -- ones who post and maintain threads on GAF promoting products that they will ultimately receive for free -- seemingly get a free pass when sites where the swag matters less because they actually pay their writers are the ones who take the brunt of the criticism.
I've seen similar accusations levied in the past few days. Specifically wrt to Medal of Honor: Warfighter.I'm not sure what you are talking about. Are you saying that people that make OT threads get games for free?
Exactly. Publishers should be the ones hosting shit like launch announcements, trailers, publisher-funded developer documentaries, etc. That's all straight-up PR and has no place in legitimate games reporting. Link to it, but don't pass it off as "news."That's Microsoft's job. By all means, link to trailers, of which a Microsoft employee unboxing the various limited editions of Halo 4 would qualify under, but don't make aforementioned trailers as "news".
We'll bang, ok?Video Game Journalist reporting for duty, Commander Shepard.
Wow, you guys sure know how get the press do what you want. Be total fucking jackasses to them.. that'll work.
Now un-boxing videos are off limits.. good to know.
As for the "Schreier is getting pinata'd" thing - it's a shame that this discussion has gone that way, but I hope that at least some of you took the time to try to see things from my perspective, even if you don't agree.
-hmm that's a really interesting perspective, maybe we should be thinking about the improper relationship between pr and games sitesAs for the "Schreier is getting pinata'd" thing - it's a shame that this discussion has gone that way, but I hope that at least some of you took the time to try to see things from my perspective, even if you don't agree.
They wanted examples. We're giving them examples.Wow, you guys sure know how get the press do what you want. Be total fucking jackasses to them.. that'll work.
Now un-boxing videos are off limits.. good to know.
Robert Florence ‏@robertflorence
Tonight I pretty much assembled the team for a successor to Consolevania. That's 2013 sorted.
Totilo doesn't fit your profile at all. He comes from a background in journalism at a pretty prestigious institution I believe. There is something more endemic in the gaming culture, I think, that facilitates this type of attitude/behavior.
Folks, please don't all jump on my throat for this, but what exactly is wrong with unboxing a collector's edition so people can see what's inside and decide whether or not they want to buy it?
It's hardly investigative journalism, but it seems like a useful service to readers who want to get a visual on what's inside those things.
Do you think a lot of Kotaku readers are that interested in this story? I think a lot of GAF posters are, because a lot of GAF posters are fascinated by this sort of inside baseball stuff, but I think that makes up a rather small chunk of our audience, to be honest.
Win. He should be on GAF!
Wow, you guys sure know how get the press do what you want. Be total fucking jackasses to them.. that'll work.
Now un-boxing videos are off limits.. good to know.
-hmm that's a really interesting perspective, maybe we should be thinking about the improper relationship between pr and games sites
couple pages later
-oh i'm sorry you people are so dumb that you actually think pr has any power over games coverage, that we're corrupt, and bribed regularly. that's so ridiculous.
?
You missed the point. He justifies not doing a story on this subject because it's not important, and calls doing journalism is doing an unboxing video of a product sent to them for free to make them advertise for it.Wow, you guys sure know how get the press do what you want. Be total fucking jackasses to them.. that'll work.
Now un-boxing videos are off limits.. good to know.
just a heads-up...Ledsen said:The way the podcasts I listen to and sites I read react to this story will seriously affect my opinion of them going forward. Any type of dismissive, sitting-on-my-high-horse-above-the-conspiracy-theorist-rabble attitude will get dropped like a hot potato.
What did they say? I thought Patrick was pretty good about it.just a heads-up...
be prepared to drop giant bomb
As for the "Schreier is getting pinata'd" thing - it's a shame that this discussion has gone that way, but I hope that at least some of you took the time to try to see things from my perspective, even if you don't agree.
Jason, I believe you using the term 'inside baseball' points to the crux of the matter. This is not 'inside baseball'.
There is an implicit assumption of trust between journalists/critics/writers and readers that has built up in similar forms of media (news, music, movies, food, etc) over many years of exposes and following self-imposed codes of ethics. That implicit trust was carried over to games media on the side of the readers. This kind of behaviour that Rab highlighted brings to light the fact that maybe it has not carried over on the side of the journalists/critics/writers.
Your stating that your audience is not interested in this kind of news is frankly disingenuous. How can someone be not-interested in something they know not of?