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[RurouniZel]

Nintendo better rethink this 'third party launch' stuff >_<

With devs like Ubisoft, who needs third parties!(GR not inc obv)

I said the same thing about the Wii years ago. What's really killing Nintendo right now is not going for broke all on their own like they did in the early DS/Wii years.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277024 <-- for reference

 

[Instro]

I'm curious though, at what point do you feel price would become an issue for the game?

I think a lot of the 3DS price debate revolves around that.

Are you asking if I think the games themselves are too expensive, or if the price of a 3ds game would keep me from buying the hardware?

Either way most people are pretty impulsive buyers, if there's a game or 2 that they must have price becomes much less of a factor. At least those are my thoughts on the price situation, price is certainly not the main factor that's keeping me from buying the system, its simply the software or lack thereof.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

In the actual quote Iwata lists like 10 different reasons for the price, bit of a misconception.

I guess my recollection is fuzzy. Do you have a link by chance? I can't recall what the exact forum was.

edit: Never mind, found it:

“Portable video game machines integrate both a gaming device and a screen. You do not need any other hardware devices to be connected in order for you to play with it,” he said.

“We do not think, ‘the price relationship between portable devices and home consoles must stay intact simply because it used to be that way.’” He continued, “While it is always better for the price to be as accessible as possible, in terms of its cost, and in order to make a healthy and sustainable business for both the hardware and the software, and given the positive reactions since E3, which give us the indication on how the public are likely to appreciate the value of Nintendo 3DS if they can have hands-on experiences and, above all, by taking other factors into careful consideration, we have concluded that we should propose this price point to our consumers.”

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/100929qa/index.html

Maybe saying that it was priced "solely" on the E3 reaction is an overstatement, but it does sounds like it played a substantial role in reaching the decision.

 

[Nirolak]

Are you asking if I think the games themselves are too expensive, or if the price of a 3ds game would keep me from buying the hardware?

Either way most people are pretty impulsive buyers, if there's a game or 2 that they must have price becomes much less of a factor. At least those are my thoughts on the price situation, price is certainly not the main factor that's keeping me from buying the system, its simply the software or lack thereof.

Do you think people would impulse buy the system if it was $400 and came with a free copy of Mario Kart though?

I'm just curious as to when people (anyone in the thread, I don't mean to single you out specifically) feel a system becomes too expensive for a game like Mario Kart to be a system seller.

 

[HCgamer]

Good point people purchase nintendo systems to play nintendo titles.

I said the same thing about the Wii years ago. What's really killing Nintendo right now is not going for broke all on their own like they did in the early DS/Wii years.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277024 <-- for reference

 

[MesserWolf]

I've always doubted the 3ds and the glassless 3d effect on a portable device. But there is still a long way to Christmas at that's when we will know if the 3ds will be able to follow the steps of the DS.

It must be noted that the console industry is a very cyclic industry and from one gen to the next one anything can happen, doesn't matter (much) how successful you where before.

GAF is like the reverse nostradamus. 3DS was supposed to be a sure thing.

I'm sure it will be successful in the long run, but the pricing and dry launch game window--it needed a banner Nintendo game--are the big barriers right now for break out success.

and what is the expected outcome when GAF says that GAF is always wrong ?

 

[watershed]

The more that you think about it, it makes me question why was nintendo si insistent on releasing the 3DS in Feburary and March? They could have easily waited until June (e3) and they could have accumulated the same amount of sales since then. They probably could have capitalized on the hype of e3 while also having more software available at launch. (with the eShop ready to boot)

I agree with this but clearly Nintendo expected the system to sell better than it has, thus helping them build a substantial lead on the NGP. The thing to remember is that in Nintendo's head, launching the system with a lackluster line up, without an eshop or other key online features, and at a high price point was enough to net high sales (at least above current numbers), clearly they were wrong.

 

[zallaaa]

With no killer-apps and more difficult to sale novelties, it's a tough sale, especially when the DS is so much cheaper and attractive. It's a steeper road this time in my opinion.

 

[watershed]

With no killer-apps and more difficult to sale novelties, it's a tough sale, especially when the DS is so much cheaper and attractive. It's a steeper road this time in my opinion.

In this case I think Nintendo is quite happy for the ds to continue selling well. I think the profits from ds units is pretty high with product costs being very low. Nintendo has said that the consumer who buys a 3ds early and the consumer who buys the ds in this point in its life cycle are two very different consumers. I agree with this, the casual gamers/people who bought the ds late will come to the 3ds later (if at all). The problem I see is that Nintendo isn't even able to sell their core gamers on the 3ds right now.

 

[Instro]

Do you think people would impulse buy the system if it was $400 and came with a free copy of Mario Kart though?

I'm just curious as to when people (anyone in the thread, I don't mean to single you out specifically) feel a system becomes too expensive for a game like Mario Kart to be a system seller.

The higher the price goes the more I reasons I need to justify the purchase, it would always come down to content over price when I make that decision. The PS3 is a clear cut example of something being so outrageously priced at launch that it was just too much, even with all that tech inside there wasnt nearly enough to justify that price particularly with the poor game lineup that the system had.

As for your $400 price point, obviously thats so high that there would need to be something amazing going on. There no way I could justify it unless it was launching with something like Chrono Trigger 3 lol. Shoot if the 3DS had launched with Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney at $300 I would be there in a heartbeat.

Like I said though, I certainly dont consider the difference between $250 and $200 to be big enough that it would be the deciding factor. Personally even if the price was $200 the launch lineup would probably still make me hesitant.

On a side note with regards to all these 3DS threads, I've barely seen anyone say "Im not buying the 3DS". Either the person already has or they just waiting for "X" game or a redesign, or a slightly lower price. I dont know if the general public has the same feelings, but it seems like there are large amounts of people like myself that are just sitting on the edge waiting for the right moment to make the purchase.

 

[KevinCow]

I'm curious about how much sales missed expectations by. Like, did they expect the 3DS to sell like the DS off the bat? Or is it really just flopping?


Either way, I guess I wouldn't be too concerned. The DS started out only moderately, and only really started to pick up when Mario Kart, Brain Age, Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, NSMB, and the like started to hit, and REALLY picked up with the Lite. I'm sure the 3DS will be similar. It just has a really shitty lineup right now, but once there are actual games out for people to get excited for, sales will probably pick up.

 

[Laguna]

And here we are again with all the doom and gloom talk. The device doesn´t set the world in fire but still sells more than decently and constantly outsells the PS3 with ease since February, considering a 3DS costs nearly as much as a PS3 and still has a young/small library not bad at all if you ask me. If you don´t know the actual situation and just read these hyperbole comments like in this thread you may think it flopped as hard as PS3 in it´s first months, luckily enough it didn´t.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Either way, I guess I wouldn't be too concerned. The DS started out only moderately, and only really started to pick up when Mario Kart, Brain Age, Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, NSMB, and the like started to hit, and REALLY picked up with the Lite. I'm sure the 3DS will be similar. It just has a really shitty lineup right now, but once there are actual games out for people to get excited for, sales will probably pick up.

This. It takes software to move hardware.

 

[Tron 2.0]

And here we are again with all the doom and gloom talk. The device doesn´t set the world in fire but still sells more than decently and constantly outsells the PS3 with ease since February, considering a 3DS costs nearly as much as a PS3 and still has a young/small library not bad at all if you ask me. If you don´t know the actual situation and just read these hyperbole comments like in this thread you may think it flopped as hard as PS3 in it´s first months, luckily enough it didn´t.

You're talking about Japan. This thread is mostly about the North American performance.

But even then I'd say the 3DS has been a disappointment in Japan as well.

 

[watershed]

And here we are again with all the doom and gloom talk. The device doesn´t set the world in fire but still sells more than decently and constantly outsells the PS3 with ease since February, considering a 3DS costs nearly as much as a PS3 and still has a young/small library not bad at all if you ask me. If you don´t know the actual situation and just read these hyperbole comments like in this thread you may think it flopped as hard as PS3 in it´s first months, luckily enough it didn´t.

Really? I think this has been one of the most reasonable discussions of the 3ds we've had on gaf. Most of the time things get really out of hand but very few having been going "Nintendo Am Doomed!" in here. Mostly its honest discussion and speculation about why or how Nintendo has fallen short of their own and gamestop's sales projections.

 

[Tron 2.0]

I'm curious about how much sales missed expectations by. Like, did they expect the 3DS to sell like the DS off the bat? Or is it really just flopping?

For the fiscal year ending 31 March 2011, Nintendo missed their expectations by 400,000 units (3.6 million compared to expectations of 4 million). And we know sales have cooled considerably.

They're still projecting to sell 16 million units this fiscal year.

I wouldn't call it a flop, but there's no denying its been disappointing.

 

[Laguna]

You're talking about Japan. This thread is mostly about the North American performance.

But even then I'd say the 3DS has been a disappointment in Japan as well.

I wasn´t just talking about Japan but US as well where it did much better than in Japan and I doubt that there´ll be many months we´ll see PS3 outselling 3DS this year in the US, so I don´t agree with the general sentiment in this thread.

@artwalknoon
I agree that there aren´t many posts that literaly are "Nintendo teh doomed".

 

[Tron 2.0]

I wasn´t just talking about Japan but US as well where it did much better than in Japan and I doubt that there´ll be many months we´ll see PS3 outselling 3DS this year in the US, so I don´t agree with the general sentiment in this thread.

Possibly. It was close in April, according to NPD.

Saying it did better in the US is relative, though. You'd expect to sell more units per month in the largest market in the world.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't think we've seen the worst of it yet, April's sales might have been heavily weighted toward the start of the month if it's anything like the Japan charts.
I'll say 120k for May, early prediction.

 

[Barrett2]

Have any new 3DS titles come out recently? I stopped thinking about it.

 

[French]

OoT and Mercenaries won't change anything.

 

[Nirolak]

Have any new 3DS titles come out recently? I stopped thinking about it.

I think the most recent one was LEGO Pirates.

 

[Ushojax]

Have any new 3DS titles come out recently? I stopped thinking about it.

Not really. There was Dream Trigger 3D and Lego Pirates but that's pretty much it. The only big game with a nailed-on date is OOT3D, and that isn't going to help the hardware sales. They should have delayed it to November, filled their 2011 slate with DS software and then launched with a Mario game during the Holidays. Is the DS piracy situation so bad that they just had to get their new console out so quickly?

 

[fadetoblack]

Is there any indication about sales at other retailers? I imagine Amazon, for instance, and Gamestop have somewhat different demographics.

 

[Parmenides]

I doubt that there´ll be many months we´ll see PS3 outselling 3DS this year in the US

NPD April 2011

PS3 204.300

3DS 194.000

On top of that,a PS3 price cut is coming.

And here we are again with all the doom and gloom talk. The device doesn´t set the world in fire but still sells more than decently and constantly outsells the PS3 with ease since February

Are you sure?I wonder how many people predicted this situation...

Worldwide Hardware Sales (Ja-Mr) 2011

          Sell-through (*)    Sell-in     

PS3            2.5

NDS            2.5

360            2.1

Wii            2.0    

3DS            1.6              3.6

PSP            1.4

(*)Europe+Japan+U.S.

If you don´t know the actual situation and just read these hyperbole comments like in this thread you may think it flopped as hard as PS3 in it´s first months, luckily enough it didn´t.

Do you really know the actual situation?

NPD

Months      PS3           3DS

1         197.000        398.000  

2         490.700        194.000

3         244.000

4         127.000

5         130.000

LTD       1.188.700      592.000

Don't get me wrong.The combination of price cuts and a robust lineup did wonders for the PS3.The same will happen with 3DS if Nintendo plays its cards right.

 

[A Link to the Past]

3DS is totally a great example of what happens when a big company thinks that they can sell on name alone. Well, that and the PS3.

 

[swerve]

I still think this is just a temporary thing while the platform transforms into something that actually has games people want to play.

Yeah, I can see that. There needs to be good-will towards the system, which was damaged for me by the region lock and the battery life. They can get it back by making the system offer me things which I love and can only get on 3DS.

I therefore hope and think the eShop will bring me the attachment to the 3DS currently lacking. Once I can customize and personalize the contents, it will be my best buddy, and I'll take it everywhere like I do my trusty DSi. Which will get retired.

 

[swerve]

Do you really know the actual situation?

Are you comparing holiday period to non-holiday?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Do you think people would impulse buy the system if it was $400 and came with a free copy of Mario Kart though?

I'm just curious as to when people (anyone in the thread, I don't mean to single you out specifically) feel a system becomes too expensive for a game like Mario Kart to be a system seller.

Speaking for myself, the system and game at 199.99 becomes the point I'd consider an impulse buy if the software is a killer app. Maybe Super Mario will be that for me. I personally hate Mario Kart, so price on that is irrelevant.

 

[Barrett2]

I think the most recent one was LEGO Pirates.

A 3D Lego game is tempting, but at this point I'll just hold out for the E-Shop.

 

[ymmv]

I'm curious about how much sales missed expectations by. Like, did they expect the 3DS to sell like the DS off the bat? Or is it really just flopping?

UK retailers are now selling the 3DS with a 30% discount after less than two months? That's pretty bad for the successor to the world's most popular handheld games console. I think it's flopping.

 

[Merovin]

I honestly think the 'lag' is due to the 3DS being too 'similar' to the DS gen for most people to realize IT'S A BRAND NEW FUCKIN THING.

This all over, some shops here have been putting the 3DS games with the DS games, so they're mixed together on one shelf..

 

[faridmon]

Its not the launch titles that is the issue here. If i am talking personally about myself, I would have gotten it and waited for decent titles to launch later. Its just the bloody price!

 

[Yoshiya]

1. The price will be too high. Nobody wants to buy a $299+ gaming only dedicated platform, no matter how capable it is. I would but I am a small minority.
2. It's too big. It's more massive than the PSP, which was already fairly unportable. I honestly think as far as portables go, size is extremely important.

Late response on this, but I feel the rise of the tablet market presents Sony with an unexpected windfall here. The 5" OLED touchscreen makes the NGP a far more versatile device than the PSP ever was, or the 3DS can ever be. A screen of that size is basically a compact tablet, great for browsing, especially given the device will be the most powerful ARM device on the market when it hits (if Sony get a decent browser on there, that is). For these reasons I think the NGP is a far easier premium sell than the 3DS. I wish it was thinner more than anything else.

 

[sfog]

No way Nintendo is bundling Mario Kart initially. No fucking way.

I wouldn't say that. Their Mario Kart DS/red system bundle certainly did quite well back in the 2005 holiday season...

 

[Graphics Horse]

UK retailers are now selling the 3DS with a 30% discount after less than two months? That's pretty bad for the successor to the world's most popular handheld games console. I think it's flopping.

There have been a few at under £150 too, check hotukdeals.com

 

[abasm]

Games sell consoles--consoles don't sell themselves (unless they are also DVD players, and the year is 2000). People buy the PS3 because it has a large cache of great exclusives, along with access to huge number of excellent multi-platform titles. The 3DS doesn't play DS games well, and the only notable title(s) for the system are the AR games. As "nifty" as the tech is, it's not enough to move consoles without some solid games backing it up. The 3DS won't really catch fire until the holidays, by which point it will have an entire summer's worth of releases along with whatever else is due to be released by Christmas.

Let's take a look at some of Nintendo's other launches:

- The Wii moved units because of its excellent pack-in title. People saw Wii Sports, and had to have a Wii Sports machine. This led to shortages, which further increased demand. "If I don't get the system now, I might not be able to get it later!" Eventually, the hype surrounding the shortage drove sales further, but Wii Sports is what started it all.

- The DS had a pretty awful launch line-up, but compared to the 3DS, it was far easier to buy in. It cost $100 less than the 3DS did, and had SM64 DS to back it up at launch, along with a demo for the next Metroid Prime. The key difference, however, was that the system launched (like the Wii and the Gamecube) right before the holiday season. March, no matter which way you swing it, isn't exactly the ideal month to release new hardware.

--

All indications point to the fact that the 3DS was released somewhat prematurely (the lack of marketing, the suspension of the eShop/browser, the lack of first-party support), but there are a few strong arguments for doing so.

- To establish a large library of titles by the holidays. If the 3DS's direct competition, the NGP, is poised for release by Christmas 2011, then the 3DS will undoubtedly have a leg up in terms of software support.

- To avoid shortages. If the 3DS sits in stores for a few months, then there will be ample available supply to satisfy the demand that will accompany the release of Super Mario, Zelda, and Mario Kart.

- To build interest in 3DS development. Now that the 3DS has been formally released, Nintendo can start courting smaller developers (who wouldn't necessarily be keen on risking money on unproven hardware) to fill out the eShop over the next several months.

--

The 3DS is weak right now, certainly, but Nintendo still seems confident that they will sell many more units by the year's end. E3 will bring a lot of clarity to Nintendo's plans for the system, and determine its course for the remainder of the year. To think of the system in terms of its current sales is premature, when so much of its success is dependent upon the next 6-7 months.

 

[GJS]

UK retailers are now selling the 3DS with a 30% discount after less than two months? That's pretty bad for the successor to the world's most popular handheld games console. I think it's flopping.

There was no RRP set by Nintendo in the UK so no one knows what price Nintendo would have launched at, it could have been inflated by Retail to try and maximise profit.

Outside of the prices retail were trying to sell the 3DS for alone, I'm pretty sure that a lot of UK buyers took advantage of one of the many launch deals here rather than buying the 3DS at normal prices.

I paid £207 at Tesco Entertainment for the 3DS and Street Fighter 3D and got £18 cashback, so I effectively got the 3DS for around £160, it's no wonder the sales dropped off once the retailers put their prices back up again.

- The DS had a pretty awful launch line-up, but compared to the 3DS, it was far easier to buy in. It cost $100 less than the 3DS did, and had SM64 DS to back it up at launch, along with a demo for the next Metroid Prime. The key difference, however, was that the system launched (like the Wii and the Gamecube) right before the holiday season. March, no matter which way you swing it, isn't exactly the ideal month to release new hardware.

The DS launched in March in Europe and ended up selling pretty similarly to how the 3DS is selling in Europe now, a big problem though is the lack of marketing of the new system as a new system. The 3DS is mixed in with the DS in stores and even online retailers, it does not have 3DS games advertising it (even if the launch titles aren't particularly stellar), there is no reason for the DS games to be advertising it and leading to people thinking it is just a revision.

 

[Mrbob]

The 3DS has probably sold more systems already then the Virtual Boy did total.

I do think it's an open question if consumers find 3D a selling point.

The 3D bubble has burst for the most part in theaters already. Sony is struggling to make people care about 3D in PS3. 3DTV sales have flat lined. I think the general public is just apathetic towards 3D at this point, and the way Nintendo has marketed the 3DS it makes it look like a 3D version of the DS. Years to come this could be a case of how not to tie your successor system so closely to your previous big seller.

3DS might be Nintendo's PS3. It'll still sell alright, but compared to its predecessor the numbers won't look well.

 

[Father_Brain]

Three more weeks and we'll see Sony's hand with Western support.

Gut feeling is the NGP is going to come out firing at E3 with a host of Western franchises with Call of Duty leading the charge. Not sure why anyone thinks Sony is going to allow what happened with the PSP to happen with the NGP. The device is built practically begging for it to be consumed by first person/third person shooters. Take Out Bandit is probably going to hate the NGP unless the high level of Japan support continues.

Yeah, not buying this. I'm with you on the Western HD franchises part, but I expect a substantial gap between NGP's on-paper Western support and the actual quality of the software in question.

If there were statements from Western third parties suggesting extreme bullishness for the platform, maybe I'd believe that it would cause a sea change in handheld support. Instead, you have N-Space and Sidhe reporting that most third parties aren't willing to allocate the budgets necessary to take advantage of the hardware, and EA expecting handheld software sales to drop 14 percent in FY 2012 despite both hardware launches in that category.