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[Darkstorne]

This is a SUBSCRIPTION based MMO so it's in Square-Enix's best interest to keep you subscribed for as long as possible.

So by forcing new players to go through the old content in order to access the new content they are in a sense increasing the amount of time you would need to clear the old content and therefore keep you subscribed longer.

Right, but my point is... How does Heavensward attract players that weren't quite interested enough in the base game? ALL of its content is for level 50 players who have completed the main story.

I'm an MMO player who's been on the fence about XIV for a long time. I didn't quite enjoy the game enough to sub to it previously, but have been waiting for an expansion to add enough features that make me think "Yep! I'm definitely willing to give this another shot now!" Instead I saw that it makes absolutely no changes to the first ~50 hours of the game, so I instantly realized "this is not for me..."

Most MMO expansions offer end-game content with new locations, levels, stories, and raids, as well as new early-game content to attract new players (races, classes, starter zones, professions, etc). Heavensward makes no attempt to attract new player at all, which is a very... unique approach to expansions.

 

[Zareka]

The world, the story, the gameplay, etc. I don't mind grouping up with people or interacting with them. And doing Fates with other people is fine. Its the fact that I wanna kick back and play through the story then all of a sudden, time to wait 30 minutes for a dungeon (at least in Ultros as a DPS before Heavensward). They throw so many at you in the 1-50, especially when you have to do 3 in a row, that's its annoying, and most of them so far have kind of sucked anyway. I only liked the manor (level 30 myself).

At least a SP option would make it go by way faster, or even making more of the dungeons optional for people who want to actually do that stuff. I don't mind the connectivity of an MMO, its when I'm constantly forced to connect with people is when it starts getting really annoying.

You have to remember that all the group content your forced to do doubles as training for end game and that these kinds of dungeons make up the meat of the end game. That's why you have to do so much of it. Really, this is actually good game design when you consider the type of game it actually is.

If you're not liking the content you have to do when you're leveling, chances are you're not gonna like end game anyway.

Hmmm... I was entertaining the idea of dipping my toe into the FFXIV universe but with no way to clear the content gates to catch up with the rest of the community I might as well not even bother.

Thanks for the heads up, OP.

There is a way to catch up, though...by doing the content. It doesn't stop being fun just because a new expansion's out, and there are always new people leveling up with you.

 

[Chemist]

Bottom line in my opinion is that this game is a different beast than most mmos. It's why it is actually very successful, it focuses on story and plays like a stand alone FF game. There are mmos that exist that make old content obsolete (wow) but that is not the intent nor design of this game.
Further the 2.0 arr story has been some of the best content I have ever played in any online game and I applaud square for going this route.

 

[Ferrio]

Right, but my point is... How does Heavensward attract players that weren't quite interested enough in the base game?

They don't? Why are you so upset about a game you don't like, with an expansion that's targeted to players that do like it?

 

[Cyklik]

As a new player slogging through the 2.3 or 2.4 (just wrapped Snowcloak) story quests, I can only shake my head in confusion at all these posts holding up the story as something to appreciate. I share the opinion of some in this thread that the questing experience of running errands for Alphinaud between various cities or running around Coerthas to be a real drag. But whatever, I know that won't be a popular opinion among people who have played the game enough to reach this point. Personally, I'm only playing because my group of friends have mostly burned out on Wow after playing off and on since launch, and 14 seemed like a decent excursion for a few months since the smaller raid sizes work well for us.

Anyway, I don't really want to jump into this thread's debate because I think the content gating could be beneficial if I found the content more engaging, but I had a question regarding this:

They can join you though. They'll hit an XP wall or do the new content then it's best to do some roulettes with you.

Am I missing something about the roulettes? I was under the impression you could only queue solo. If that is not the case, that would be fantastic news.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

Hmmm... I was entertaining the idea of dipping my toe into the FFXIV universe but with no way to clear the content gates to catch up with the rest of the community I might as well not even bother.

Thanks for the heads up, OP.

Another heads up - most of the rest of the community are running their daily roulettes for bonus XP, which match them with whatever dungeons are in need of players. It's a really nice system that keeps you from having to wait too long for any dungeon no matter where it is in the story, or where the bulk of the playerbase is in progression. My FC mates who have returned after a long break are zipping through dungeons, I'm actually somewhat jealous.

 

[Kusagari]

Square-Enix has basically made it known that they're making the story the selling point of FFXIV. And so far it has worked out extremely well for them.

Also it's easier than ever to get dungeons right now, even as a DPS, especially in the 30+ range because of so many people leveling up the new classes.

There has literally never been a better time than now for new players to jump in because so many veterans are accessing the older content intentionally.

 

[Zareka]

Am I missing something about the roulettes? I was under the impression you could only queue solo. If that is not the case, that would be fantastic news.

Low level roulette can only be queued for solo, everything else pretty much can be grouped. You'll only have low level roulette unlocked though, other than guildheist maybe.

Also, if your friends are still leveling 50-60 they still get exp from doing low level dungeons, and get a bonus if you've never beat the dungeon before. There's quite a few incentives to go back and help lower level players with content.

 

[Darkstorne]

They don't? Why are you so upset about a game you don't like, with an expansion that's targeted to players that do like it?

I'm not upset. I bolded that in a previous post but apparently I should bold that disclaimer in all of them =P

I'm just surprised to see them create an expansion that is so gated. It's undoubtedly awesome for the core playerbase, and that's definitely the number one priority they needed. I was expecting them to try broadening their playerbase at the same time though, as most MMO expansions aim to do, so it's a little strange to see them take this route, that's all =)

 

[Hasney]

As a new player slogging through the 2.3 or 2.4 (just wrapped Snowcloak) story quests, I can only shake my head in confusion at all these posts holding up the story as something to appreciate. I share the opinion of some in this thread that the questing experience of running errands for Alphinaud between various cities or running around Coerthas to be a real drag. But whatever, I know that won't be a popular opinion among people who have played the game enough to reach this point. Personally, I'm only playing because my group of friends have mostly burned out on Wow after playing off and on since launch, and 14 seemed like a decent excursion for a few months since the smaller raid sizes work well for us.

Anyway, I don't really want to jump into this thread's debate because I think the content gating could be beneficial if I found the content more engaging, but I had a question regarding this:



Am I missing something about the roulettes? I was under the impression you could only queue solo. If that is not the case, that would be fantastic news.

Oh yeah, the quests are standard MMO fodder. It's the actual story that's great and you're almost at the best bit, 2.5 is amazing.

I think you used to only be able to roulette solo, but one of the patches changed that.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

Most MMO expansions offer end-game content with new locations, levels, stories, and raids, as well as new early-game content to attract new players (races, classes, starter zones, professions, etc). Heavensward makes no attempt to attract new player at all, which is a very... unique approach to expansions.

You can roll Au Ra (the new race) without any progress in the base game whatsoever

 

[Ferr986]

The biggest problem is that the old story content of ARR isn't worth at all, except a couple of battles.
I've been doing the lamest fetch quests for almost two hours, and I still have to beat one patch.
The should cut the fat, and let only the quests that pertains to dungeons and boss battles. It wouldn't be a problem for most that way.

Not directly related, but getting to see the Celestial Capital of Al'Taieu in FFXI only after completing an absurdly difficult sequence of quests and bosses is still, to this day, the most rewarding thing I've ever experienced in a video game.

Fuck this free bullshit. Make awesome content hidden or very difficult to reach. It's all the better when you get there.

That's.... not the same at all.
You weren't required to have completed vanilla and Zilart to start Chains of Promathia.

God forbid you have to slog through a fun game to get more fun content. That really is bad game design.

What's worse is people who get a free Level 90 character and have no idea how to play the game because they skipped all the content.

fetch questing is neither fun and it doesn't teach shit (other that teaching you how to spam teleports). They just need to make better quests. It's sueper stupid that a warrior of light has to be serving dinners around the world.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Right, but my point is... How does Heavensward attract players that weren't quite interested enough in the base game? ALL of its content is for level 50 players who have completed the main story.

That's the point thou this Expansion DOESN'T do that and it seems that Square-Enix is not interested to try and attract a new audience when they already have a stable one who is giving them a steady flow of money. In your own words if a person wasn't interested in the base content how does an expansion that simply adds content to the base and doesn't dramatically change the way the game plays is going to change the mind of those very same people?

Square-Enix already learned the hard way that chasing after a new audience will cost them to burn money they don't have so now they are simply going back to pleasing the audience they know they can make money from.

 

[Kouriozan]

Yeah... honestly if this expansion revealed one thing, is that old content is STILL being done. Not hard to find groups. Hell at one point it was giving bonus to DPS players to do roulettes. Which is a first.

They give us reason to do old content (via roulette) for those sweet tomes which gives pretty good gear at max level.

 

[Hasney]

The biggest problem is that the old story content of ARR isn't worth at all, except a couple of battles.
I've been doing the lamest fetch quests for almost two hours, and I still have to beat one patch.
The should cut the fat, and let only the quests that pertains to dungeons and boss battles. It wouldn't be a problem for most that way.

I mean, you're basically going to unlock more of the same which is why I struggle to see it as an issue. I hope you like finding moogles, those bastards have broken me.

 

[erawsd]

I'll be returning after I'm done with Batman and I'm really looking forward to experiencing both all the "old" stuff I missed and the new stuff added to this expansion... Its all new to me.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Gating new what behind new what now? Huh?

Anywho, the problem is not a question of severity or lenience, but one of the playerbase being told by developers they have veto power over each and every developer decision-making juncture (read: player bribery), and treating the act of play as an intolerable chore before the guarenteed payoff (again, by developers bribing the playerbase).

Given how fast MMOs are played to end-game now, new expansions often throw that "normal" state of being in the holding pattern of endgame, any wait is agonizing, no matter how it's shortened. Destiny is the posterboy for this, and you're even starting to see signs of it in Soulsborne games now that they're becoming an annual thing. It's completely at odds marketing and goals here.

 

[Rafterman]

I don't have a problem with having to do the old story to get to the new story in the expansion. The problem I have is that about 95% of the old story is bullshit fetch quests and unnecessary side junk that has no bearing on the bigger picture. SE basically took your average (below average actually) side quests and incorporated them into the story quests so that you can't skip the junk and just do the meat of the story. There are like 350 story quests because of this filler and it's a slog.

 

[Cyklik]

Low level roulette can only be queued for solo, everything else pretty much can be grouped. You'll only have low level roulette unlocked though, other than guildheist maybe.

Also, if your friends are still leveling 50-60 they still get exp from doing low level dungeons, and get a bonus if you've never beat the dungeon before. There's quite a few incentives to go back and help lower level players with content.

Fortunately we're all new, so we've been trying to experience the content together for the most part (some are a bit behind). And as my first job has been Warrior, I've done a bunch of low level roulette for xp (seems to usually net at least half a level and the queues are virtually instant as a tank) and a few main scenario roulettes for tomestones. I guess I must not have checked the queue conditions for the main scenario or trial roulette. I'll have to give it a look later. Although at this point the story quests have given us better gear than we'd be likely to get out of that content, so we're just continuing on with those quests for the time being.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Ferr986]

I mean, you're basically going to unlock more of the same which is why I struggle to see it as an issue. I hope you like finding moogles, those bastards have broken me.

I don't know what I'm going to find. Right now I bought Heavensward becuase 1) wanted to explore the new world 2) wanted to play with in-game friends that are already there.

If they kept the same bad quest design of endless fetch for HW that it's dissapointing.

 

[Darkstorne]

That's the point thou this Expansion DOESN'T do that and it seems that Square-Enix is not interested to try and attract a new audience when they already have a stable one who is giving them a steady flow of money. In your own words if a person wasn't interested in the base content how does an expansion that simply adds content to the base and doesn't dramatically change the way the game plays is going to change the mind of those very same people?

Square-Enix already learned the hard way that chasing after a new audience will cost them to burn money they don't have so now they are simply going back to pleasing the audience they know they can make money from.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I definitely like the sound of the Astro class and would have subbed for a month to try it out. The thought of having to level my old character to 50 and finish the story before I can try out that fun new class... that keeps me playing other games instead.

 

[Hasney]

I don't know what I'm going to find. Right now I bought Heavensward becuase 1) wanted to explore the new world 2) wanted to play with in-game friends that are already there.

If they kept the same bad quest design of endless fetch for HW that it's dissapointing.

Nothing really changes in terms of the in world quest design. The dungeons and trials gave fun mechanics as always, but yeah... Flying is faster than mount walking though, so they're quicker at least.

 

[Azzurri]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I definitely like the sound of the Astro class and would have subbed for a month to try it out. The thought of having to level my old character to 50 and finish the story before I can try out that fun new class... that keeps me playing other games instead.

I always love trying new classes in MMO's even if it ends up being the only thing I do and never play again.

 

[Kusagari]

I don't know what I'm going to find. Right now I bought Heavensward becuase 1) wanted to explore the new world 2) wanted to play with in-game friends that are already there.

If they kept the same bad quest design of endless fetch for HW that it's dissapointing.

The side quests are just as bad, but the MSQ flows far better and at no point so far for me, at level 55, has really felt like a fetch quest.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I definitely like the sound of the Astro class and would have subbed for a month to try it out. The thought of having to level my old character to 50 and finish the story before I can try out that fun new class... that keeps me playing other games instead.

Well that just proves my point than Final Fantasy XIV has 4 Million Registered Accounts but only about 500,000 are active subscribers in Square-Enix's own words. So it's better for Square-Enix's pockets if they please those 500K players instead of pursuing those other 3.5 Million Accounts that didn't stick around and potentially spoiling the cobtent for those 500K players they already have.

 

[Darkstorne]

Well that just proves my point than Final Fantasy XIV has 4 Million Registered Accounts but only about 500,000 are active subscribers in Square-Enix's own words. So it's better for Square-Enix's pockets if they please those 500K players instead of pursuing those other 3.5 Million Accounts that didn't stick around and potentially spoiling the cobtent for those 500K players they already have.

Does it? =P If you think so!

I think that's a good indication that they could do with enticing some of the other 3.5 million back in for another month or two with new classes unlocked from the start for a new twist on the early-game experience, while keeping the core players happy with all the new locations and story content. But that's just like, my opinion, man.

 

[Feep]

That's.... not the same at all.
You weren't required to have completed vanilla and Zilart to start Chains of Promathia.

The general concept of making people do lots of stuff before they can access other stuff is the same.

 

[Retromelon]

I knew this would be about ff14 b4 i got in here. If the developers are trying to present you a story through the medium of discrete quests, then it wouldnt make sense to allow out of order execution. Also, they warned us a while in advance it would be this way. It sucks that you cant jump right in the new zones, but there is a good reason for that.

 

[JBourne]

Heavensward has motivated me to give FF XIV a second chance after giving up very early on when I played the game over a year ago. I'm hoping there are enough people in the same situation to make it easy to group up.

 

[CyclopsRock]

If you simultaneously don't care about the story *and* haven't levelled or completed the main quest line, what *have* you done? Not played the game by the sounds of it.

 

[n0razi]

its like saying you need to read prisoner of azkaban before you can read goblet of fire even though you bought both....



which makes sense

 

[Squishy3]

I'm an MMO player who's been on the fence about XIV for a long time. I didn't quite enjoy the game enough to sub to it previously, but have been waiting for an expansion to add enough features that make me think "Yep! I'm definitely willing to give this another shot now!" Instead I saw that it makes absolutely no changes to the first ~50 hours of the game, so I instantly realized "this is not for me..."

There are a ton of changes that affect things pre-Heavensward, anything that says 2.0 affects the base game and anything that says 3.0 only applies to Heavensward.

There's a ton of changes to make it easier for people to get up to the point where they can complete the content that gates off Heavensward.

 

[Stuart444]

Well that just proves my point than Final Fantasy XIV has 4 Million Registered Accounts but only about 500,000 are active subscribers in Square-Enix's own words. So it's better for Square-Enix's pockets if they please those 500K players instead of pursuing those other 3.5 Million Accounts that didn't stick around and potentially spoiling the cobtent for those 500K players they already have.

Look what it says under 4m accounts.

This was at a recent live letter not to long ago.