Support NeoGAF

[FacelessSamurai]

Can't games have a VR mode where everything is dialed down?

Wouldn't that mean a lot more development time from developers to lower resolution, bump the framerate and and optimize the game again? On PC you can just change the settings; on console you can't. That's why I don't think it's as simple as that, except maybe for less demanding games, like most indie games, where they weren't already using the PS4's full power.

I could be wrong though, I'm no expert, but from all of the talks so far, that's how it seems like to me. Maybe indies will make enough of a push towards this to make it relevant, who knows. But until you have that one killer app that really shows the potential and that everyone needs, I still have a hard time this will reach the mainstream users and sell a lot. It's still a peripheral when you think about it, and as we have seen with previous generations, they usually don't last, which is why I am not sure about this.

I still feel like picking up a rift kit 1 for cheap, just to try it out and get a better feel for it.

 

[cchum]

It's good that he liked this, or Yoshida might have been out of a job

lol lol


glad I kept a move so I don't have to rebuy

 

[DieH@rd]

Any video of Thief?

 

[EventHorizon]

The consensus seems to be that the headset works fine but needs a few tweaks here and there. However the Move support is lacking and I personally don't think Sony will get it to work acceptably well. The Move was released 3 1/2 years ago and has been in development for much longer. It appears to be still suffering from the same problems that it had at launch. As such I just don't see it being VR worthy in a year to a year and a half when I expect Morpheus to ship. I predict that the the best VR experiences will come from the goggles being paired up with the standard controller, steering wheel, or flight stick.

Wouldn't that mean a lot more development time from developers to lower resolution, bump the framerate and and optimize the game again? On PC you can just change the settings; on console you can't. That's why I don't think it's as simple as that, except maybe for less demanding games, like most indie games, where they weren't already using the PS4's full power.

What?!? Why can't they? The only reason consoles traditionally don't is that they have a fixed spec and there is little need to allow players to adjust image quality since the devs can preselect the options they feel would offer the best experience. There is absolutly no reason why the devs can't add a different spec for VR viewing.

However the real reason why this might not happen is that just showing a 3D game in VR doesn't tend to work well. It is better to design for a VR experience from the start. What I think will happen is that AAA games will offer a smaller slice of the game as a VR mode. For example I can see a FPS offering a Horde VR Mode mode to allow players to see an example of their game in VR and provide marketing something else to put on the box. Once publishers feel safe with VR then they'll devote full resources into creating a complete VR game.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

Why does everyone assume that the first goal for these VR games will be next gen graphics? Right now it seems like they still have to figure out what will actually work with VR since a lot of the game design we see in today games don't really work. If anyone is expecting full on support with games like FF or Call of Duty then they are only setting themselves up for disappointment.

Like gofreak said, there will be some hesitancy and I think that goes for Oculus rift too. I expect there to be a lot of simulations games (there are already quite a few now) and maybe smaller games made for VR at first. Adding support for existing games will only work for some while it probably won't be worth adding for others.

I just don't see any point in buying one if I can't get these experiences (the ones everyone actually buy) instead of rollercoaster rides and stuff like that. On PC it will all be possible because of the fact they can run anything, for a price of course. But on consoles, I still feel we'll get afterthoughts.

If you can't get the big franchises and experiences people expect but on VR, I think you'll have a hard time selling it. I can definitely say I wouldn't be interested in spending 300$ for a peripheral for just a few gimmick games.

Also, any word on what version of Thief they were demoing and how it looked? Was it like a PS3 version graphically? How did it run?

 

[gofreak]

Any video of Thief?

Not sure anyone has seen it today...it's going to be rotated into the public demos with EvE tomorrow, apparently.

 

[KAL2006]

I'm not saying it has to be native to be good - I expect there are some types of games that will afford themselves to VR pretty readily via relatively simple retrofitting. Some of them will be great I'm sure. But the word coming down from people like Oculus, and now Sony, is that generally built-for-VR will have a better shot at delivering the best experiences.

I don't know if it's the same as 3D support, but I remember seeing Resident Evil 4 with unoficial 3D support, and it looked like the best looking 3D game I seen even though the game wasn't made for 3D, I'm sure similar things will happen on Oculus Rift PC games. Something like Elder Scrolls Skyrim with VR support would be amazing.

I just don't see any point in buying one if I can't get these experiences (the ones everyone actually buy) instead of rollercoaster rides and stuff like that. On PC it will all be possible because of the fact they can run anything, for a price of course. But on consoles, I still feel we'll get afterthoughts.

If you can't get the big franchises and experiences people expect but on VR, I think you'll have a hard time selling it. I can definitely say I wouldn't be interested in spending 300$ for a peripheral for just a few gimmick games.

Also, any word on what version of Thief they were demoing and how it looked? Was it like a PS3 version graphically? How did it run?

Pretty much this. That is why I will invest on a GPYU upgrade and a OR for my VR experience instead of this. I want full next gen games to have VR support and I can bet PC games will offer this where as PS4 won't.

 

[RoboPlato]

The consensus seems to be that the headset works fine but needs a few tweaks here and there. However the Move support is lacking and I personally don't think Sony will get it to work acceptably well. The Move was released 3 1/2 years ago and has been in development for much longer. It appears to be still suffering from the same problems that it had at launch. As such I just don't see it being VR worthy in a year to a year and a half when I expect Morpheus to ship. I predict that the the best VR experiences will come from the goggles being paired up with the standard controller, steering wheel, or flight stick.

Move worked really well on the PS3. I'm guessing they just need to work with it more here and were really focusing on the visual elements of the tech demos.

 

[syko de4d]

If one guy can do something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSoj9EU7pWs with OR DK1 + old Razer hydras imagine what will be possible when a whole team works with Consumer VR and Move/other VR Inputs.

 

[thesuperfunk]

This is going to be fucking epic with Surgeon Simulator.

 

[Prototype]

That castle demo looks good. If that can keep that level of graphical fidelity and get the VR controls working well I think they are on to something.

 

[gofreak]

I don't know if it's the same as 3D support, but I remember seeing Resident Evil 4 with unoficial 3D support, and it looked like the best looking 3D game I seen even though the game wasn't made for 3D, I'm sure similar things will happen on Oculus Rift PC games. Something like Elder Scrolls Skyrim with VR support would be amazing.

It's a bit more complicated than stereo3D. If you look at OR's best practices guide you can see how some games' cameras wouldn't necessarily translate into VR well - and I don't just mean non-first-person ones. I'm sure there will be good mods for some non-native games though.

 

[beast786]

I just ordered OR Dk2. Sony I am just waiting for your pre-order page to go live

 

[Maninthemirror]

Wouldn't be surprised if they announce move 2.0 at E3

 

[Dunk#7]

So is it possible to turn around 180 degrees? I haven't seen anybody do it.

What happens with motion tracking then? I can't think of a solution to that problem.

 

[boredandlazy]

lol lol


glad I kept a move so I don't have to rebuy

I have 4 of them...

I only had one but then a store near me had them on special for about $15 each, so I snapped up another 3 just for the hell of it.

 

[GobFather]

They really do need to make some gloves.

he said it felt natural with the move, Im curious to try it. Glove sounds cool too but would your hands get tired? compare to holding a peripheral?

 

[Natureboy99]

This is the best video so far imo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbHBhFkO-E&list=UUddiUEpeqJcYeBxX1IVBKvQ

This video, particularly the EVE section, has highlighted the clear and tremendous need for Sony to drop a big bag of cash off at the doorstep of of the Star Citizen guys, and a note that simply says "For Morpheus"

(OK and give them their own servers that are cross platform too. It's 2014, not 2004).

 

[Log4Girlz]

I want at least 1 major game to be mostly flat shaded polys like the oldie time VR graphics.

 

[Alebrije]

So is it possible to turn around 180 degrees? I haven't seen anybody do it.

What happens with motion tracking then? I can't think of a solution to that problem.

360 degrees as far as I Know

 

[Natureboy99]

So is it possible to turn around 180 degrees? I haven't seen anybody do it.

What happens with motion tracking then? I can't think of a solution to that problem.

Yes you can. There are lights on the back too.

 

[gofreak]

So is it possible to turn around 180 degrees? I haven't seen anybody do it.

What happens with motion tracking then? I can't think of a solution to that problem.

The headset should be fine, but the camera will lose sight of your move or DS4 if you're turned all the way around and don't have the controller out at the side or something. I guess in games that use motion tracking of the controller they will advise you not to turn all the way around, or give you warnings ala regular move games when the camera loses sight of it.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Just saw one impression saying it. Which is the other one

sorry for the late reply.

both Engadget and The Verge commented on it fogging up, afaik.

also: i am seeing a lot of inconsistency with people reporting the gap at the bottom. some say that they can see the floor through a gap at the bottom of the headset while others applaud the headset for letting them adjust it in a bunch of ways and also closing the gap at the bottom so they won't see the floor.

so it sounds like some people aren't even adjusting the headset at all and then commenting about the gap at the bottom.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Why do I feel like we are looking at the beginnings of PlayStation 5?

(All in one box) VR headset + camera + ps console + move 2 controller =. PS5

 

[Dunk#7]

The headset should be fine, but the camera will lose sight of your move or DS4 if you're turned all the way around and don't have the controller out at the side or something. I guess in games that use motion tracking of the controller they will advise you not to turn all the way around, or give you warnings ala regular move games when the camera loses sight of it.

That is what I was talking about. It would force games that track the lights to almost be on rails because you couldn't turn around to go back.

 

[DieH@rd]

So is it possible to turn around 180 degrees? I haven't seen anybody do it.

What happens with motion tracking then? I can't think of a solution to that problem.

In kotaku video guy spined around. Tracking is seamless.

Why do I feel like we are looking at the beginnings of PlayStation 5?

(All in one box) VR headset + camera + ps console + move 2 controller =. PS5

+Playstation Now

And no, we are definetley going to get PS5 in 6 years. 10TF monster at least.

 

[USC-fan]

Why do I feel like we are looking at the beginnings of PlayStation 5?

(All in one box) VR headset + camera + ps console + move 2 controller =. PS5

NO way....

You shouldnt force this on people.

 

[jett]

Terrible gif but, he seems to be enjoying himself. You could see the smile on his face in the instagram video.

Edit: Playstation move will finally get used properly.

Visually that whole set up looks ridiculously tron-like. Now I can dig what the Sony designers were going for.

 

[blastprocessor]

I can't understand the concern regarding the PS4 not being powerful enough.

It's rendering 960 x 1080p per eye. If you have for example MGS:GZ, which runs at 1080p 60fps isn't that a perfect fit for VR or is there some extra processing required (i.e., geometry x 2?)?

Pixel rendering is the same is it not?

 

[Raven Prime]

I want at least 1 major game to be mostly flat shaded polys like the oldie time VR graphics.

Pretty sure a indie dev will create such a thing.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Not EVERY game needs first person view head tracking etc

Simply having games that cover your entire field of vision is compelling enough for me. I can imagine playing MGS Phantom Pain, same experience but in an IMAX like screen with some cool little gimmicks like peaking around a corner and looking around during cutscenes thrown in

 

[EventHorizon]

I just don't see any point in buying one if I can't get these experiences (the ones everyone actually buy) instead of rollercoaster rides and stuff like that. On PC it will all be possible because of the fact they can run anything, for a price of course. But on consoles, I still feel we'll get afterthoughts.

If you can't get the big franchises and experiences people expect but on VR, I think you'll have a hard time selling it. I can definitely say I wouldn't be interested in spending 300$ for a peripheral for just a few gimmick games.

Your argument is like saying that MMOGs would never work because Quake needed lower lag than MMOGs could give. Game were designed with MMOGs strengths and weaknesses in mind, and they weren't like the games that came before them. The same will be true with VR.

I want at least 1 major game to be mostly flat shaded polys like the oldie time VR graphics.

Yep, I've been saying the same thing. I think the killer app VR game would be an old school Tron game.

 

[Nafai1123]

more and more I see it and read the responses I think that Sony is using this gen to get feedback and constructive criticism back from devs and people in the industry. PS5 = VR

I think this goes both ways too. VR really is a paradigm shift in how games are perceived and interacted with. It's like the shift from 2d to 3d. Both console manufacturers and developers will need time to discover new ways to create content that works within the constraints of the medium. A lot of the typical design decisions for 2d content won't work well in VR, while the most arbitrary things in a 2d game could be very intriguing in VR. Even doing something as mundane as looking up at the stars can cause a emotional response in VR, while viewing it on a TV is just merely "ohh, pretty." We've already seen the beginning of this with the indie community playing around with the OR and it's very exciting, but those long standing concepts about how to design games isn't going to change overnight.

I can't understand the concern regarding the PS4 not being powerful enough.

It's rendering 960 x 1080p per eye. If you have for example MGS:GZ, which runs at 1080p 60fps isn't that a perfect fit for VR or is there some extra processing required (i.e., geometry x 2?)?

Pixel rendering is the same is it not?

Yeah, amount of pixels is the same but it's rendering two viewpoints in game, so 2x vertex/shader geometry. I believe it's around 30-50% more intensive.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

I want at least 1 major game to be mostly flat shaded polys like the oldie time VR graphics.

Dire Straits - Money For Nothing

I'm waitin' developers!

 

[TheCanisDirus]

This video, particularly the EVE section, has highlighted the clear and tremendous need for Sony to drop a big bag of cash off at the doorstep of of the Star Citizen guys, and a note that simply says "For Morpheus"

(OK and give them their own servers that are cross platform too. It's 2014, not 2004).

Oh hell yes... Star Citizen VR on PS4... yeah, i'd probably not leave my house for a month lol.

 

[USC-fan]

I can't understand the concern regarding the PS4 not being powerful enough.

It's rendering 960 x 1080p per eye. If you have for example MGS:GZ, which runs at 1080p 60fps isn't that a perfect fit for VR or is there some extra processing required (i.e., geometry x 2?)?

Pixel rendering is the same is it not?

It render like split screen co op. It take more power but it not going back to PS3 level gfx. That is just silly....

Huge advantages for PS4 is its a closed box. OR has to go through the API/drivers for a lot of difference hardware. That itself add a lot of lag. So for the same game running on OR compare to Morpheus just a couple NS of lag would require the game to run much higher FPS. PS4 was design to keep the lag low with remote play and now VR.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

Your argument is like saying that MMOGs would never work because Quake needed lower lag than MMOGs could give. Game were designed with MMOGs strengths and weaknesses in mind, and they weren't like the games that came before them. The same will be true with VR.

What you are saying makes no sense at all...

 

[Bad_Boy]

NO way....

You shouldnt force this on people.

Well its gotta happen sometime. How else will we reach Playstation 9.

 

[Snake29]

Star Citizen @ Sony E3 2014 press conference, will blow everything away! Damn Sony drop that bag of money!

 

[Dunk#7]

In kotaku video guy spined around. Tracking is seamless.

Of the headset, yes. The Move controllers can't be tracked if your body is between them and the camera.

I am not hating on the product as I am very excited. I just am curious as to how you would go about a solution to that scenario.

 

[boredandlazy]

It seems to me that in the videos I've seen the people who have issue with the move controllers are the ones standing up right in front of the camera. Maybe if they're sitting 6-7 feet back like 'most' people it won't be an issue?

 

[Cyberia]

Was this already posted?

Sean Murray ‏@NoMansSky

First time in years I've not been at GDC. So Jelly. Working on something big so had to pull out. Cancelled my talk and a NMS VR demo

https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/446408671795609600

 

[Chuck Norris]

Of the headset, yes. The Move controllers can't be tracked if your body is between them and the camera.

I am not hating on the product as I am very excited. I just am curious as to how you would go about a solution to that scenario.

The camera has some body tracking stuff if I recall right? It could do some estimation when move goes out of view

 

[gofreak]

That is what I was talking about. It would force games that track the lights to almost be on rails because you couldn't turn around to go back.

A game can just use an analog stick/navi to give full regular movement rather than requiring the player to physically turn around if they're tracking the ds4 bar or a move controller. Dual moves might require a different way to navigate space.

 

[Josman]

The only thing that worries me is the 90 degrees FOV and being able to watch the floor. As Sony themselves said: 'Presence' is the selling point of these devices, and having two black bars at your sides along with lighting from the floor can potentially ruin the ilusion.

I should add that I haven't tried the OR yet, so my opinion may not be as objective as I'd like. I know Morpheus is still a working prototype, but I hope final version at least matches the OR's FOV, even if it means an added screen door effect.

 

[kutthoat5150]

Yea this prob just sealed the deal for star citizen on ps4 after the pc version comes out

 

[Chuck Norris]

A game can just use an analog stick/navi to give full regular movement rather than requiring the player to physically turn around if they're tracking the ds4 bar or a move controller. Dual moves might require a different way to navigate space.

Accelerometers are also in the move controller which don't use light tracking

 

[EventHorizon]

What you are saying makes no sense at all...

No, what your saying makes no sense because you have not stated a point. However my point is that you can't blindly drag the capabilities of one type of game to the next in an attempt to prove that the new type won't work.

You are trying to say that unless a VR experience has the same image quality of a traditional game it will fail. I equated that to requiring an MMOG to have the same lag as a traditional FPS before it would be deemed viable. Trying to do that makes no sense because the games will adapt to the new media just like WoW gamers gladly gave up lower lag for the new experience of playing with 1000s of other players. The same trade off will be done for image quality in order to get VR.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Was this already posted?



https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/446408671795609600

aww yiss.

 

[Josman]

A game can just use an analog stick/navi to give full regular movement rather than requiring the player to physically turn around if they're tracking the ds4 bar or a move controller. Dual moves might require a different way to navigate space.

I never understood why Move wasn't designed with dual analogs, it was such an obvious need. A PS5 shipping with redesigned moves as standard controllers (2 hands tracking + analog sticks) and Morpheus would be a killer combination.