Salazar said:That sounds like your regular barrier to entry, not a case of "snubbing" at all.
If good ideas can't get done because there is no dialogue due to an antiquated business model, something is wrong.
Salazar said:That sounds like your regular barrier to entry, not a case of "snubbing" at all.
Well, the man does mentions browser based games...Htown said:If Trip Hawkins wants an open platform, he needs to realize that the PC still exists.
DavidDayton said:Oh, I knew that -- that wasn't my point. What I meant was that, if I understand this correctly, doesn't that mean that if someone wanted an "open" iOS device for their own hacking, it's essentially available that way? I mean, if you pay $99 a year, can't you program and run your own software as much as you want?
best quote ever."At least Nintendo had the courtesy to tell you upfront that you were going to be screwed."
BobTheFork said:Anyone who laughs this off because Trip said it...great, lulz abound, but what do you actually think about the point?
Yeah I don't get it:Sho_Nuff82 said:So he simultaneously laments open and closed platform policies. Is his ideal scenario one in which anyone can develop a game for the platform with no licensing fees, but there's still someone who says "Yes this game can come out, no this game cannot"?
Guevara said:Yeah I don't get it:
Nintendo is bad because the barrier to entry is too high and and bedroom devs can't make cheap $1 games.
Apple is bad because the barrier to entry is too low and the market is flooded with crap made by bedroom devs so nobody makes any money.
What's the answer? Some imaginary middle point that currently doesn't exist? Oh and browser based games, lol.
Relix said:Yeah but at least the PS2 had consistently good software....
Sho_Nuff82 said:So he simultaneously laments open and closed platform policies. Is his ideal scenario one in which anyone can develop a game for the platform with no licensing fees, but there's still someone who says "Yes this game can come out, no this game cannot"?
Boonoo said:Well that's pretty much what Steam is, right?
charlequin said:Steam takes the same 30% cut Apple does.
Quality standard? Where ? Babiez?Ranger X said:Man, it's since 1985 that Nintendo influenced the industry into certification process and rules of devellopment and it's now he's complaining?
"Let's have no quality standards and let us do what we want" is always the word of devs and publishers. Yet, many fail to do a product that is any good and they barely succeed into getting approved. Just imagine if there was no standard? It would be a fucking wasteland.
Also, why not complain about Sony and Microsoft or anybody else that did follow Nintendo into liscensing process since 1985??
LOL
Well, I think his point was that you CAN'T rise with so much clutter. I'm not sure if I agree with him but that kind of market dilution was a major reason for the gaming crash. I don't he is saying that this will kill the gaming industry, but it could cripple this great new market they have by making the same mistake and not managing it properly.1-D_FTW said:I think he's just bitter. Nintendo's policy was wrong why? Because they ditched having huge markups on hardware and subsidized it by having license fees? This ultimately grew the market. 3DO was an example of what happened when you didn't subsidize things and let the electronic companies have their normal markups.
As for Apple? What's the beef? It's too popular? Should Apple charge more than 30 percent royalties? Should they start being big brother and saying what's good and what's not? It's an open system, but because it's too popular, there's too many apps? That's what the free market is. You rise to the top because your product is distinctive.
Tobor said:"Over encouraged supply"? haha, that's a good one, Trip.
As for Nintendo, it grew the market for THEM, but his point I think it that it's choking out up and coming devs. I want there to be as many companies as possible pushing out great content. I think Nintendo would rather they be the ones with all the great content.
If I understand his point, it's that these market leaders aren't making the decision that benefit th industry the most, just themselves. They can do that if they want, but that's the objection here.
Guevara said:Yeah I don't get it
Look, I don't know enough about the industry to properly analyze it. I was transcribing what I though he meant when talking about 'knowing Nintendo is going to screw you when you signed the deal' I know Nintendo makes a ton of money off the Wii and DS, maybe he thinks not enough of their licencees do and he doesn't think they will fair much better with the new Apple model for reasons I said above.Deku said:He's talking about over production of apps. And he's right on that.
Que? The current 60b global games market is more or less on Nintendo's licensing models.
Sony tweaked a few things with the PS but it is the same model
Kuran said:Quality standard? Where ? Babiez?
Shovelware has nothing to do with Nintendo's "quality control" though, they're going to be created regardless.kyoya said:I have both criticism and praise for Nintendo on this one:
First, does Iwata physically walk through retailers like Wal-Mart, Target, Toys R Us, Gamestop, Best Buy and just see how much shovelware there is for both the Wii and DS? Does he understand that there is a limit of just how many "Imagine" and "Paws & Claws" games from UbiSoft and THQ we need? Then again, perhaps they actually sell well and are a quick pick for clueless parents and kids with allowance to waste. Obviously, this shovelware literally shoves the good games off the shelf from great ambitious developers (large and small) that actually care about quality and creating something new and innovative.
I have to check around with different retailers when there is a particular quality Wii or DS game I want that I can't find at one of these retailers I've mentioned (or just turn to Amazon). Then again, I guess that's how it's always been, checking around to find what you actually want. It just appears that both Nintendo of America and eager-to-please retailers leave the consumer to swim through the spew of low-grade crap DS and Wii games.
Now, as far as developers having to pay to use certified Nintendo equipment, and what I assume are certified facilities to manufacture Wii and DS media - this is the part I approve of. Nintendo does not want to be associated with product defects of any kind - which is why (I assume) they mandate on manufacturing to third-party publishers and this has to be paid for. If publishers were allowed to choose whatever testing equipment, or media manufacturing they wanted for Wii or DS, and the media turns out defective, then, not only are they screwed, but Nintendo is screwed as well (i.e. bad press, PR nightmare). Nintendo doesn't want to be associated with this.
Now, if only Nintendo could properly address its defective third-party approval process of shovelware titles, then....perhaps we'd see better quality titles on the shelves.
Deku said:He's talking about over production of apps. And he's right on that.
kyoya said:I have both criticism and praise for Nintendo on this one:
First, does Iwata physically walk through retailers like Wal-Mart, Target, Toys R Us, Gamestop, Best Buy and just see how much shovelware there is for both the Wii and DS? Does he understand that there is a limit of just how many "Imagine" and "Paws & Claws" games from UbiSoft and THQ we need? Then again, perhaps they actually sell well and are a quick pick for clueless parents and kids with allowance to waste. Obviously, this shovelware literally shoves the good games off the shelf from great ambitious developers (large and small) that actually care about quality and creating something new and innovative.
I have to check around with different retailers when there is a particular quality Wii or DS game I want that I can't find at one of these retailers I've mentioned (or just turn to Amazon). Then again, I guess that's how it's always been, checking around to find what you actually want. It just appears that both Nintendo of America and eager-to-please retailers leave the consumer to swim through the spew of low-grade crap DS and Wii games.
Now, as far as developers having to pay to use certified Nintendo equipment, and what I assume are certified facilities to manufacture Wii and DS media - this is the part I approve of. Nintendo does not want to be associated with product defects of any kind - which is why (I assume) they mandate on manufacturing to third-party publishers and this has to be paid for. If publishers were allowed to choose whatever testing equipment, or media manufacturing they wanted for Wii or DS, and the media turns out defective, then, not only are they screwed, but Nintendo is screwed as well (i.e. bad press, PR nightmare). Nintendo doesn't want to be associated with this.
Now, if only Nintendo could properly address its defective third-party approval process of shovelware titles, then....perhaps we'd see better quality titles on the shelves.
BobTheFork said:Look, I don't know enough about the industry to properly analyze it. I was transcribing what I though he meant when talking about 'knowing Nintendo is going to screw you when you signed the deal' I know Nintendo makes a ton of money off the Wii and DS, maybe he thinks not enough of their licencees do and he doesn't think they will fair much better with the new Apple model for reasons I said above.
Edit:^^^ yeah what he said.
CoffeeJanitor said:SHOTS FIRED
I wasn't even trying to say that Nintendo should lose money for the industry. Also, to be fair that's a gross generalization you're made. There are many many failed games by third parties for Nintendo systems are aren't anywhere near shovelware. Nintendo did it to because they needed to and needed to help stabilize the industry, I totally get that. That was in 1986, It think they could stand to reevaluate the process. I'm not trying to forget history, but maybe it's time they let go of history.1-D_FTW said:There's a reason consoles have always been cheaper than PCs. They're subsidized. And even when Nintendo is selling at a profit, there's still tons of R&D + marketing they do that's not included in that "cost" category.
These consoles are subsidized. Fact. It's why they've become so popular. Blaming Nintendo for making money is kind of missing the point. That's the incentive. If all first parties did was lose money on console hardware, what incentive would there be? To go bankrupt or tick off the stock holders.
Has Nintendo increasingly become about their own hardware? Sure. But that's because they create the highest rated games and the other third parties liked creating games on closed platforms where they didn't have to compete with Nintendo. Over time, it's become an out of control negative feedback loop.
I'm aware Nintendo had some pretty despicable habits at their previous peak, but it doesn't totally explain why they flocked to Sony so hard. Not having to compete with Nintendo games was a huge part of it. This helped create the halfhearted mentality they currently have with Nintendo platforms. "We can't beat them, so why try? *release shovelware* See? The game sold like poo."
BobTheFork said:I wasn't even trying to say that Nintendo should lose money for the industry. Also, to be fair that's a gross generalization you're made. There are many many failed games by third parties for Nintendo systems are aren't anywhere near shovelware. Nintendo did it to because they needed to and needed to help stabilize the industry, I totally get that. That was in 1986, It think they could stand to reevaluate the process. I'm not trying to forget history, but maybe it's time they let go of history.
It still feels like a discussion between 'then' and 'now'. I don't think anyone would have questioned how they did it 'then' it needed to be done. But now it's...well 'now' and I think it's fair to give them some of that criticism and question if things are different enough now that they should make some changes. I don't think there is any real one answer or absolute argument, but he has a few good points and I don't think he's the only one that thinks that way. Taking stage and firing shots at the two biggest targets looks bitter though and doesn't help his point much.1-D_FTW said:I know it's not the only issue for the 3rd parties. Nintendo is ass backwards on lots of things. *cough*anything online*cough*. It's not that simple.
But for hardware makers, these are hardly big oil companies. Being a platform holder isn't a license to print money. MS' entire operation is still in the red. Sony has been feast/famine and is basically right around the break even point for their entire history. 3DO (which he noblely claimed took less) was charging an arm and a leg for the systems since they weren't subsidized and couldn't sell them (lot of good it does publishers if there's no audience). Atari ended a disaster. Mattel couldn't have ended too greatly or they wouldn't have left the business. Sega left. NEC left.
Should Nintendo embrace DD and have sliding royalties for variable pricing? That would be great for everyone. But before Trip blames Nintendo for being the evil empire, let's just bow down to what a disaster the console business has traditionally been. What good would it have done if there's wasn't a way for anyone to succeed.
1-D_FTW said:I know it's not the only issue for the 3rd parties. Nintendo is ass backwards on lots of things. *cough*anything online*cough*. It's not that simple.
Should Nintendo embrace DD and have sliding royalties for variable pricing? That would be great for everyone. But before Trip blames Nintendo for being the evil empire, let's just bow down to what a disaster the console business has traditionally been. What good would it have done if there's wasn't a way for anyone to succeed.