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Giant Bomb Thread 2: A thread on a popular internet message board

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M

Mahonay

Banned
Green Scar said:
Watching Brad play DOOM II is obviously the best way for me to spend the rest of my Friday night.

Obviously.
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Well I'm currently at work doing this and watching.
uicBR.jpg


In my defense I'm stuck covering reception once again for our absentee night receptionist. Better than just staring at the elevators.

EDIT:
Annnd just as I'm getting cozy it's over :(
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
From the ME3 spoiler thread:

ShockingAlberto said:
Patrick Klepek continues to misrepresent what the disappointment in ME3's ending was about and try his damndest to tie it to fan entitlement.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/sticking-the-landing/4061/
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EatChildren said:
How does this keep happening? I seriously do not understand it. And then people say "gaming journalism lol" and I think "well, I'm kind of a gaming journalist and I hated the ending. And so did my colleague, who is an even bigger fan than me" (he was going to review the DLC, and couldn't, because of how bad the ending burned him).

I mean if people want to like the ending I might think they're insane but, you know, whatever, like it if you must. But to not only like the ending, but actively belittle, discredit and insult people who don't? While completely failing, so much so that it must be deliberate, to acknowledge or respond to the legitimate criticism people put forward?

What the fuck is wrong with people? How are these people paid for this bullshit?
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B

Basileus777

Member
Klepek's good at investigation stuff, but he buys into cults of personality and is too friendly with everyone in the industry to be of any use when it comes to criticism.
 
V

vitaminwateryum

corporate swill
Patrick having a conversation with someone who hasn't even finished the game yet. Oh boy!

Endings often just can’t win. Most screenwriters will tell you the hardest part of any movie, any story to tell, is just the end. It’s the thing that changes the most, it’s the endings that are the most fought over among collaborators, they’re the things that are just the hardest to land. Some people get it really, really right, some people get it really, really wrong, and some people land anywhere in-between and our attitudes about them can change. The thing about controversial endings, though, is this: five years from now, my friend, we will all say that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was genius! We’ll catch up to it.
Click to expand...

Cannot facepalm hard enough. No spoilers in the quote by the way.
 
F

Foliorum Viridum

Banned
Dany M said:
Install VLC, go the audio settings and change it to 2900 ms.
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Ah, so it's consistent? I use VLC but usually out of sync videos get more out of sync or less, meaning I have to keep changing it!

I'll do this then, thanks :)

vitaminwateryum said:
Patrick having a conversation with someone who hasn't even finished the game yet. Oh boy!

[/spoiler]

Cannot facepalm hard enough. No spoilers in the quote by the way.
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That quote is retarded. The ending is great, we're just not ready for it!!!!111

The funny thing is the ending of ME3 is a shitty rip-off of other shitty endings that have been shit for years.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
I read it more as Patrick being very wishy-washy, like usual. He often throws out what kind of concepts he thinks conversations about a subject will entail, rather than, you know, discussing the subject.

That type of writing isn't ever great, but here it's incredibly bad, seeing as the people worth talking to about ME3's ending are very clear about their feelings:

-Bittersweet ending = FINE, so long as they do it well
-...which they didn't, thanks to deus ex machinations and out-of-character moments out of the blue
-Player choice not being the be-all and end-all of how the story ends = sure, fine, so long as...
-...the choices actually matter, which, hey look, they didn't.

The conversation isn't even worth having anyway. Things went badly because they had 18 sodding months to make a AAA sequel like no-one has seen before. "So... EA are fools, yeah?" "YEAH, haha" is the only conversation anyone should be having about ME3, beyond the kind of chat your average game generates.

It's not worthy of probing. Move on to, IDK, anything else. I feel like Patrick is writing about ME3 because everyone is talking about it- he should be finding stuff for people to talk about, ideally. His ME pieces have all felt, well... pointless.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
From the ME3 spoiler thread:
Click to expand...

I've given up on reading coverage of ME 3 ending and the controversy. The protesting and other ridiculousness that some of the more desperate fans have resorted to has become the story. On top of that the arguments against the ending, which are numerous and obvious, seem to always get misrepresented in the articles so the writers ultimately come to the conclusion that entitled fans
wanted a happy ending
and won't be satisfied until they get it. But all of the discussion, in which I've been involved, fans that weren't happy with the ending, feel that it was simply
nonsensical, full of plot holes and didn't fit the universe and story they built up over 3 games. I haven't seen anyone demanding a happy ending at least in the discussions I've been a part of.
I'm personally very disappointed in the way the trilogy ended but I'm not a fan that expects or demands a new ending. However, I would like to see the stories covering the controversy to at least delve into the actual problems people have with ending and not just discredit and demean the critics. At this point, I've pretty much just moved on but the coverage has been irritating to say the least.

I haven't read Patrick's article and I probably won't so this isn't necessarily aimed at him specifically.
 
V

vitaminwateryum

corporate swill
Felix Lighter said:
I've given up on reading coverage of ME 3 ending and the controversy. The protesting and other ridiculous that some of the more desperate fans have resorted to has become the story. On top of that the arguments against the ending, which are numerous and obvious, seem to always get misrepresented in the articles so the writers ultimately come to the conclusion that entitled fans
wanted a happy ending
and won't be satisfied until they get it. But all of the discussion, in which I've been involved, fans that weren't happy with the ending, feel that it was simply
nonsensical, full of plot holes and didn't fit the universe and story they built up over 3 games. I haven't seen anyone demanding a happy ending at least in the discussions I've been a part of.
I'm personally very disappointed in the way the trilogy ended but I'm not a fan that expects or demands a new ending. However, I would like to at least see the stories covering the controversy at least delve into the actual problems people have with ending and not just discredit and demean the critics. At this point, I've pretty much just moved on but the coverage has been irritating to say the least.

I haven't read Patrick's article and I probably won't so this isn't necessarily aimed at him specifically.
Click to expand...

This is the only article I've seen so far that accurately describes what I didn't like about the ending. Most of the other sites can't seem to get where most of the people are coming from.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
From the ME3 spoiler thread:
Click to expand...
The problem I have with Patrick's article is that it addresses something I don't personally feel upset over. I have no problem with an ending that doesn't
have the greatest result for every party. I don't mind if things don't turn out exactly how I wanted them to. Some of my favorite endings are things where characters and events go very badly.

However, I take issue with the immense flaws of logic and inability to even fact check your own writing in the steps taken to reach the conclusion they wanted to present. It boggles the mind to think that the script must have passed through the hands of multiple people, and nobody ever once brought up some of this stuff. I mean, it's completely obvious, and that's what bugs me. Say what you will about the actual ending ending stuff, but the steps taken to get there are unforgivable, as far as I'm concerned. It's not a matter of entitlement or investment for me. It's a matter of having contradictions present that should have never been.


There are certainly people that take their investment into a series much too seriously, and there are likely a large percentage of people upset that fit into that category. I suppose the article was really meant more for them, but it doesn't touch on any of my concerns.


The whole debacle around ME3 makes me think of Vinny's joking use of "remember it not for what it was, but what it should have been."
At least, I will always have ME1.


edit: I really hope we get a spoilercast for the game.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
Isn't there some speculation that Bioware deliberately did an abrupt ending in order to market the "true" ending as DLC later on? If there's anything to that then this is a whole different issue than one of entitlement. I haven't finished ME3 yet so I honestly don't know, but I have heard this mentioned as a possibility.

EatChildren said:
How does this keep happening? I seriously do not understand it. And then people say "gaming journalism lol" and I think "well, I'm kind of a gaming journalist and I hated the ending. And so did my colleague, who is an even bigger fan than me" (he was going to review the DLC, and couldn't, because of how bad the ending burned him).

I mean if people want to like the ending I might think they're insane but, you know, whatever, like it if you must. But to not only like the ending, but actively belittle, discredit and insult people who don't? While completely failing, so much so that it must be deliberate, to acknowledge or respond to the legitimate criticism people put forward?

What the fuck is wrong with people? How are these people paid for this bullshit?
Click to expand...

Patrick lacks some important critical thinking skills. I shouldn't say "lacks", more like he seems to choose to disregard them in order to protect his singleminded, predetermined conclusions. I think it's a maturity thing. He also much too eager to rub elbows with the industry types. There are types of professionalism, soft skills or whatever you want to call them, that he needs to develop.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
Typographenia said:
However, I take issue with the immense flaws of logic and inability to even fact check your own writing in the steps taken to reach the conclusion they wanted to present. It boggles the mind to think that the script must have passed through the hands of multiple people, and nobody ever once brought up some of this stuff. I mean, it's completely obvious, and that's what bugs me.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, out of the writers, apparently, only Mac Walters saw it. That's why Patrick Weekes was understandably upset in his post over at the Penny Arcade forums.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
PsychoWARD23 said:
That's the thing, out of the writers, apparently, only Mac Walters saw it. That's why Patrick Weekes was understandably upset in his post over at the Penny Arcade forums.
Click to expand...
Wha?! How is that even possible?! The series they have worked on for so many years with various writers came down to one guy with no editor? What the heck?
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
FStop7 said:
Isn't there some speculation that Bioware deliberately did an abrupt ending in order to market the "true" ending as DLC later on? If there's anything to that then this is a whole different issue than one of entitlement. I haven't finished ME3 yet so I honestly don't know, but I have heard this mentioned as a possibility.

Patrick lacks some important critical thinking skills. I shouldn't say "lacks", more like he seems to choose to disregard them in order to protect his singleminded, predetermined conclusions. I think it's a maturity thing. He also much too eager to rub elbows with the industry types. There are types of professionalism, soft skills or whatever you want to call them, that he needs to develop.
Click to expand...

The silly thing is that he has Jeff Gerstmann, who I hear is a famous gaming enthusiast, right beside him. This Mr. Gerstmann has expressed his displeasure at the ending of said Mass Effect 3 on numerous occasion - I believe even in the same room as Mr. Klepeck when recording their weekly audio show delivered through the world wide web.

One would think that Mr. Klepeck could ask Jeff "GiantBombing" Gerstmann his opinion of the ending and why he disliked it?
 
F

FStop7

Banned
Typographenia said:
Wha?! How is that even possible?! The series they have worked on for so many years with various writers came down to one guy with no editor? What the heck?
Click to expand...

There are a lot of rumors about things that may or may not have happened internally at BioWare between the release of ME2 and the build up to launching The Old Republic. A lot of stories about resources being pulled away to work on TOR to the detriment of ME3. I still think it's very telling that Christina Norman left BioWare for Riot long before ME3 was done.

PsychoWARD23 said:
Edit: well, he had Casey Hudson too, the executive producer.
Click to expand...

This would be the same Casey Hudson who talked about how good William C. Dietz's Mass Effect book was. Yeah, that book. The cereal one.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
FStop7 said:
There are a lot of rumors about things that may or may not have happened internally at BioWare between the release of ME2 and the build up to launching The Old Republic. A lot of stories about resources being pulled away to work on TOR to the detriment of ME3. I still think it's very telling that Christina Norman left BioWare for Riot long before ME3 was done.



This would be the same Casey Hudson who talked about how good William C. Dietz's Mass Effect book was. Yeah, that book. The cereal one.
Click to expand...

Yep, lol. PR be crazy.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
Typographenia said:
The problem I have with Patrick's article...
Click to expand...
Continuing my thoughts-

I would love to take part in the discussion that Jensen talks about where, even if I don't agree with the ending being exactly to my tastes, if I can appreciate what the writer wanted to do. However, I don't feel it's possible for me to really do, seeing as the foundations upon which the ending was based to get there were turned into something resembling an Escher. It makes no logical sense, and I don't see much point in talking about what they were doing with any ending when they couldn't follow their own internal logic in reaching that conclusion.

I don't know that I would really view this as a positive, personally. I think it's great that people are invested in the ME world, but lots of people, myself included, are very invested in a game like Psychonauts. It didn't build that up over the course of 5 years, but over the course of a week of me playing with it. Just because people get attached to something and complain about it on the internet (be it petitions or ridiculous amounts of money raised) doesn't mean I would be willing to call that successful to any real degree. I understand what he really meant, but yeah.


Patrick, your point about Bioware probably being responsible for giving the player too much of a sense of entitlement is probably right for a lot of people, but I had already accepted that it was going to come down to doing what they wanted at the very, very end. They were going to have to define what the conclusions were going to be when it came time to roll the credits, and I had accepted that. The only thing is that they punished me for not getting to those endings the way they wanted me to.
SPOILERS FOR THE LOVE OF PETE DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED ME3
When it came time for the Shepard/IllusiveMan/Anderson showdown, I was unable to choose the ultimate paragon response. What happens next? I watch as the IM shoots Anderson and then Shepard, because I didn't press the renegade interrupt button. Not once on that play of the character had I ever (intentionally) done anything renegade. I go to the effort of holding the controller left-handed only when cutscenes are going on, just in case I were to accidentally hit the right trigger. I was forced to sit through the entire conversation again because Bioware decided that how I had played up to that point was no longer an acceptable way to do things. That's where I draw the line between giving up my rights to having ownership over an ending and having ownership of the character I was playing as to reach that ending.


I don't know that I ever will be able to "get what they were going for," since the writing clearly displays that they didn't know what they were going for. If it wasn't so paradoxical in nature, I could maybe come around to some of it, but, as it stands, it's a complete and utter mess.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Typographenia said:
Continuing my thoughts-

I would love to take part in the discussion that Jensen talks about where, even if I don't agree with the ending being exactly to my tastes, if I can appreciate what the writer wanted to do. However, I don't feel it's possible for me to really do, seeing as the foundations upon which the ending was based to get there were turned into something resembling an Escher. It makes no logical sense, and I don't see much point in talking about what they were doing with any ending when they couldn't follow their own internal logic in reaching that conclusion.

I don't know that I would really view this as a positive, personally. I think it's great that people are invested in the ME world, but lots of people, myself included, are very invested in a game like Psychonauts. It didn't build that up over the course of 5 years, but over the course of a week of me playing with it. Just because people get attached to something and complain about it on the internet (be it petitions or ridiculous amounts of money raised) doesn't mean I would be willing to call that successful to any real degree. I understand what he really meant, but yeah.


Patrick, your point about Bioware probably being responsible for giving the player too much of a sense of entitlement is probably right for a lot of people, but I had already accepted that it was going to come down to doing what they wanted at the very, very end. They were going to have to define what the conclusions were going to be when it came time to roll the credits, and I had accepted that. The only thing is that they punished me for not getting to those endings the way they wanted me to.
SPOILERS FOR THE LOVE OF PETE DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED ME3
When it came time for the Shepard/IllusiveMan/Anderson showdown, I was unable to choose the ultimate paragon response. What happens next? I watch as the IM shoots Anderson and then Shepard, because I didn't press the renegade interrupt button. Not once on that play of the character had I ever (intentionally) done anything renegade. I go to the effort of holding the controller left-handed only when cutscenes are going on, just in case I were to accidentally hit the right trigger. I was forced to sit through the entire conversation again because Bioware decided that how I had played up to that point was no longer an acceptable way to do things. That's where I draw the line between giving up my rights to having ownership over an ending and having ownership of the character I was playing as to reach that ending.


I don't know that I ever will be able to "get what they were going for," since the writing clearly displays that they didn't know what they were going for. If it wasn't so paradoxical in nature, I could maybe come around to some of it, but, as it stands, it's a complete and utter mess.
Click to expand...

I don't want to dismiss this discussion out of hand, but why can't the ending just be objectively *bad*?

Beyond just the interactivity, agency, and gameplay parts of it. The actual events of the ending and what it leads to - in the context of a science fiction story - are just bad. This isn't some genius misunderstood work like 2001: A Space Odyssey, which I've heard Jeremy Parish compare ME3 to over and over again. It's just... a bad ending.
 
B

Brobzoid

how do I slip unnoticed out of a gloryhole booth?
firehawk12 said:
I don't want to dismiss this discussion out of hand, but why can't the ending just be objectively *bad*?

Beyond just the interactivity, agency, and gameplay parts of it. The actual events of the ending and what it leads to - in the context of a science fiction story - are just bad. This isn't some genius misunderstood work like 2001: A Space Odyssey, which I've heard Jeremy Parish compare ME3 to over and over again. It's just... a bad ending.
Click to expand...

._. what
 
A

Aaron

Member
No one defends the ending of Sunshine, and most people loved that movie up to where it turns. Give ME3 six months, and it'll get the same response.
 
R

Requeim

Member
Jeff is fucking terrible at Burnout Revenge, i haven't laughed this hard at a TNT since fortune street.

edit: Jeff is a really great host, i forget that sometimes (because Ryan hosts everything)
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Requeim said:
Jeff is fucking terrible at Burnout Revenge, i haven't laughed this hard at a TNT since fortune street.

edit: Jeff is a really great host, i forget that sometimes (because Ryan hosts everything)
Click to expand...

Vinny is too. Kind of makes me wish they'd change it up, but I understand why they don't.(because Jeff is usually playing, Vinny is busy, and Ryan has to do something)
 
T

Typographenia

Member
firehawk12 said:
I don't want to dismiss this discussion out of hand, but why can't the ending just be objectively *bad*?

Beyond just the interactivity, agency, and gameplay parts of it. The actual events of the ending and what it leads to - in the context of a science fiction story - are just bad. This isn't some genius misunderstood work like 2001: A Space Odyssey, which I've heard Jeremy Parish compare ME3 to over and over again. It's just... a bad ending.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to argue that it was good either, but I would have been more able to accept and pick apart what it did on a level above "this is just flat out wrong" had the pieces used to assemble it not been completely misused or misplaced.

I have only seen the ending I picked, so I can't entirely speak to how the other endings play out. I can, however, say that the one I got was ridiculous. I really enjoyed a moment or two in the last thirty minutes, but the parts I enjoyed weren't really related to story. It was either atmosphere or the brief moment it takes a breather from racing the player to the conclusion.

As a whole, though, the ending is pretty much indefensible. I just don't understand how anybody on the team didn't say something. If they did, it must have fallen on deaf ears, since they had a deadline to make, but geez...
 
B

B_Rik_Schitthaus

Banned
Typographenia said:
I have only seen the ending I picked, so I can't entirely speak to how the other endings play out. I can, however, say that the one I got was ridiculous. I really enjoyed a moment or two in the last thirty minutes, but the parts I enjoyed weren't really related to story. It was either atmosphere or the brief moment it takes a breather from racing the player to the conclusion.
Click to expand...

:D
He doesn't know.
 
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