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Gran Turismo Sport delayed to 2017

John Wick

Member
Because it's on Playstation? The 360 demolished the PS3 in NA throughout the generation, it was also the leader in the UK and was overall a sales juggernaut. 3 great franchises? yet all these franchises together could not beat a GT game. Forza has been bundled a tonne in all regions, given away for free, yet it still can't dent GT.

Gotham and Horizon aren't close to sales juggernauts and now you're mixing sims with arcade racers, so if you want to do that, let's pretend that the PS3 never had Motorstorm 1 and 2, Mod Nation Racers and LBP Karting. Let's also forget that F1 championship 2007 (which was a beast of a sim on PS3 prior to GT) also never happened, and if you're just talking about racing thrills and speed, let's forget about Wipeout HD's existence. If these 2 arcade racers were competing with Forza and hindered it's sales, then the same can be said about the many more arcade racers on PS3.

As for your question, GT5 did have some performance issues due to the hardware (difficult PS3 development), yet GT5/6 was so much more ambitious than Forza 4. Better resolution, better graphics, better effects, better driving model, day night cycle, weather, bpsec and the list goes on....Poliphony are just too ambitious for their own good. So I'm sure if they did a less ambitous racer with less features like forza at 720p, they would have easily locked 60fps with no weather and no day night cycles and perhaps score better too.

Having played Forza, it's much easier to get through, it's an easier game overall, so the appeal to more casual gamers is definitely there, have you seen footage of how some of these reviewers drive a car in these games, they can't even keep it on the road for the most part. I know some people who are having difficulty pulling out bronze trophies in some GT challenges and licenses to this day, so I guess all of this combined helps forza, but I'm not sure I'd want it any other way. Let's be fair here though, if you're pumping so many forza games per generation, accessibility is definitely something you want to be looser, if not you're only going to impede F5 players running to buy F6.


You really need to put GT sales against Forza sales, hell, combine the last few forza's against GT5 alone. Not that it's necessary, but if you feel obliged to include GT5 Prologue and GT6 into that equation, then you will see how much the bottom line matters.

The Xbox 360 only sold well in the US and UK. It's primarily a shooter and sports fans console. Racing games sell the most in Europe and Europe is Sony land. So stop being dense. Compare shooters on 360 to PS3 and you'll understand what I'm talking about?
Also I've never bought up sales.
I was talking critical success and all those games were critically better than GT5 and 6.
PD were too ambitious? They took 5 years and even then the game needed 27 patches. The game doesn't run locked 60fps.
I can't answer ifs and buts because those things never happened.
Again I never bought up sales but the development time PD take and the critical success of GT 5 and 6.
 

John Wick

Member
The driving model may be subjective, but I've played so many racers and they just don't have the feel of GT and I'm talking at default values and settings. It feels like a sim right off the bat. Playing a couple Forza games over the years including Apex definitely feels a bit more arcade/nfs-shifty if you just play on default/standard settings and that's a big difference IMO. I think this is why Forza caters better to a more casual crowd because it's definitely easier and more accessible in that sense, but GT feels more realistic. The licenses and challenges also lends to it's authenticity, with it's progressive difficulty curve. I still remember running the Nascar challenges in GT5, tinkering with settings to hit all gold. It definitely pulls you into the experience like no other.

As for just plain difficulty and challenge, I'd be able to get 1000G much easier in Forza 5/6 as opposed to getting a platinum in GT5. I don't think that's a subjective opinion at all.


In any case, I do think the delay is for the best, perhaps we will get the better sound many have been clamouring for, people complained about SP, so it appears that they may be converting the project a full GT conversion. Till then, we could have had Assetto to tide us over which many claimed to be the best thing since sliced bread and how better it is than GT, but look at how it looks and performs on these consoles. People have to realize, getting those stellar GT visuals with all these features, physics, sound etc...is no easy task. So expecting GT to be the best in everything and to be delivered overnight is a bit of an unfair proposition.

GTS in it's current form destroys all other racers in visuals with up to 20 cars on screen and a better framerate over Project Cars and Assetto, yet, it's unfinished and W.I.P. Assetto on the other hand is a released game, yet the game can barely manage 50fps with 10 cars on screen with the most awful tearing and horrid IQ I've seen in a racer this gen. There's a clear reason why Poliphony is a step above other devs in so many categories, if it was just as easy as providing a bland looking racer with many visual compromises at a locked 60fps, I'm sure PD could do that in their sleep, but I'm happy they're taking their time to give us something more ambitious in all areas.

Again read some of the in depth reviews from independent reviewers. Your personal views don't mean much nor mine. All the reviews can't be wrong now can they?
GT Sport will have to be something special.
 
PS4 has had racing titles every year post-launch:
2014: Driveclub
2015: Project Cars
2016: Assetto Corsa

Driveclub...shit on release....30 or so patches later we got a passable racer but its still pretty shit

Assetto corsa...should of just stayed on pc as the port is a shocker

Project cars...really great racer....that nobody plays anymore

The only good racer atm is f12016...outside of that if you want a racing game console you should probably pick yourself up an xbox
 
Well, Amazon.com sent their email with placeholder date for release date.
image_11.jpeg

now that's a release date I can believe
 
Driveclub...shit on release....30 or so patches later we got a passable racer but its still pretty shit

Assetto corsa...should of just stayed on pc as the port is a shocker

Project cars...really great racer....that nobody plays anymore

The only good racer atm is f12016...outside of that if you want a racing game console you should probably pick yourself up an xbox

Lol
 
Since people are talking about accessibility options, one interesting thing GTS is doing is dropping the racing line altogether. Instead it's being replaced with something called racing markers. It's a system that puts markers (basically arrows) at the entry, apex, and exit of a turn to show you where your car should be if you're driving properly. You can see it in action here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmwM-CwSrt0

It's an interesting take on it and probably needed since driving lines in general do a pretty bad job of teaching you the track.

That's a pretty cool feature, though I think they oversell the idea that a driving line prevents you from learning tracks. With Forza specifically it seems a lot of people fail to recognize that the line is deliberately sub-optimal, it ultimately is only a guideline too and not the 100% best approach. But an explicit corner exit marker is great, I'd love to see that idea adopted more widely.

(I do wish Forza defaulted to a braking line only instead of the full driving line. Doing that is more fun, and also fights a bit of that autopilot groove players can fall into.)
 

wenaldy

Member
Driveclub...shit on release....30 or so patches later we got a passable racer but its still pretty shit

Assetto corsa...should of just stayed on pc as the port is a shocker

Project cars...really great racer....that nobody plays anymore

The only good racer atm is f12016...outside of that if you want a racing game console you should probably pick yourself up an xbox


Huh?
 

Loudninja

Member
This is where they at now:
  • Arcade Mode
  • Campaign
  • Brand Central
  • Sport Mode
  • Social Features
  • Livery Editor
  • Scapes
117 Events in offline mode
137 cars, 19 locations, 27 layouts
I assuming they going to add more cars and stuff now.

But who knows since these cars are built form the ground up.
 

Grassy

Member
Pretty disappointing news, although not really surprising.

Honestly, that one question is valid and it will remain eternal mistery.

Yeah, because it couldn't actually be possible for someone to enjoy a Forza game more than a Gran Turismo game, right?

I'm pretty sure that implementing all the extra features that GT has over the other racers is what's extending the dev time, they also try to eke as much out of the hardware as they can each time.

What are all these extra features that the other racers don't have?
 
Driveclub...shit on release....30 or so patches later we got a passable racer but its still pretty shit

Assetto corsa...should of just stayed on pc as the port is a shocker

Project cars...really great racer....that nobody plays anymore

The only good racer atm is f12016...outside of that if you want a racing game console you should probably pick yourself up an xbox

Oh my!

Most 'patches' where additional features/content, not fixes. Was great on release with broken multiplayer, is now god tier arcade racing with unrivaled visuals. Yeah that's "pretty shit"
 
I'm not suprised, but sad. But then again, Driveclub VR and Forza Horizon 3 will keep me busy and I don't want GT5/GT6 framerates on GT Sport, so I'll wait for GT Sport Neo.
 

Mascot

Member
I'm not suprised, but sad. But then again, Driveclub VR and Forza Horizon 3 will keep me busy and I don't want GT5/GT6 framerates on GT Sport, so I'll wait for GT Sport Neo.

I'm sure Kaz will add some pointless fuckery to ensure screen tearing and inconsistent framerates are a feature of the Neo version too.
 

John Wick

Member
Driveclub...shit on release....30 or so patches later we got a passable racer but its still pretty shit

Assetto corsa...should of just stayed on pc as the port is a shocker

Project cars...really great racer....that nobody plays anymore

The only good racer atm is f12016...outside of that if you want a racing game console you should probably pick yourself up an xbox

Com'n Driveclub is an excellent game. Especially after the weather patch.
 
The Gran Turismo defense force never ceases to amaze me. The series has been sub par for 10 years now and Polyphony / Sony clearly mishandle the development of the game. If it didn't still sell in huge numbers, changes would have been made long ago.

While I appreciate Kaz's motivation to release a standout product from the competition, it's a waste of time when he / they don't even get the fundamentals right. I cut them some slack with the last couple of games due to the PS3 being shit, but there are no excuses now.
 
That's such an interesting and vital point you made. People asking for Kaz's head man...SMH. Do these people know what he has accomplished with a simple video game that debuted way back on the PS1. The man is a certified car nut, a real-life racer, has hit deals with pretty much all car manufacturers for his game, he is respected throughout the motor and video game industry and has forged an avenue where real life GT players can transition in to real-life racing with proper certification, training, and through a licenced body. GT is now bigger than a video game and that's pretty swell for simple GTPLANET guys or anybody really who just love the franchise and who were just nuts on shaving lap times or enjoying some online racing on their couches, right now, there's something bigger to aspire to and that is mostly all because of this franchise.


Whoever Kaz hands over to, will have a much easier time after the foundation he's laid here. I can tell you this, If GT was a yearly or every two year franchise, it most probably would have been dead already.

Pretty much. People who say Kaz should have no idea what the man has done for the franchise, how much work he put into it to make it become what it is today and how his direction has affected the series.

Your right especially when you only response is that. Did you try reading any of those reviews from the games press? Or are you avoiding talking about that because it doesn't suit your narrative?

This is getting real sad now. People can form their own opinions on the game and many many people disagree with the assessment from the press. GT5 to many was the best racer of last gen, furthermore, the community stuck with the game for years and it continued to sell for years. The press may have not been as favourable but the racing fans were.
 
The Gran Turismo defense force never ceases to amaze me. The series has been sub par for 10 years now and Polyphony / Sony clearly mishandle the development of the game. If it didn't still sell in huge numbers, changes would have been made long ago.

While I appreciate Kaz's motivation to release a standout product from the competition, it's a waste of time when he / they don't even get the fundamentals right. I cut them some slack with the last couple of games due to the PS3 being shit, but there are no excuses now.

What kind of reasoning is this?

"If people stopped liking the game and stopped buying it, changes would have been made long ago."

Yes of course.
 
Can anyone honestly say Kaz 100% priority is on getting the game out on time. He has expanded the brand way beyond anyone would have thought but the game has suffered as a result. With the amount of leeway, resources and time they get the technical issues are inexcusable.
 
Rant warning.

GT1 drew me in, amazing at the time, huge amount of cars and tracks, great handling, license tests forced me to take corners correctly, and not instinctively. I learned a lot, and split-screen skyline vs subraru or something was fun. I missed out on GT2 because I'd already sold my playstation. PS2+GT3 was soon mine, wasn't nearly as fleshed out as GT2, felt more like a tech demo than a full game. I missed out on GT4 because I had sold my PS2 by the time it came out!

My disillusion with GT3/4 and reason for selling my ps2 was because of the only racing game to really grab me since GT1 - MotoGP: Ultimate Racing Technology on Xbox. Ok, it's bikes, but it had a sublime difficultly curve, great controls, amazing multiplayer, great net-code. I could just jump in, pick a bike and have a big multiplayer race with fairly evenly matched bikes, no one really ramming each other too much (because they risk falling themselves). Eventually I'm gutted this series gets discontinued and so I'm looking back at GT to fill the gap...

So GT5 had been revealed, it was coming and it had online! The wait for GT5 was one of the longest, most repeatedly delayed and most painful for any game I can remember. I spent years checking GT Planet, I hyped myself beyond belief. Year after year, but it was going to be worth it, this time the sound would be fixed, damage/crashes are coming, (pictures of deformed rally cars came out), massive online focus, a full rally tournament?, full NASCAR tournament?, maybe even F1? - it's going to be worth it!

I was in denial. I was over-hyped. When it arrived it was underwhelming in most ways, got almost none of that, but I realized I was expecting the earth. GT used to be a game to demo the PS1 or PS2. Now it had pretty cars and still drove well, but sound/tracks were so behind and it was no longer demo material. And that's just the surface level. It's the same old game where you get money by entering boring races vs AI, or maybe a small tournament which is a few random races chained together with no tension. A lot of old crappy old PS2 era cars that I wish weren't there. Racing something like a GTI golf was painfully anemic feeling. The rally/nascar element turned out to be just a few cars and tracks tacked on. The handful of dirt tracks were so bad I avoided them. Graphically the car models were unprecedented, but by the time it released a lot of other car games had caught up somewhat. The track-side graphics were pretty poor. I remember thinking it really didn't look much better than GT3/4, in slightly higher res with nicer car models driving on them. PS3 always did have a shit GPU, and by now was starting to show it's age! We did get some nice smoke effects though, but it was combined with an annoying increase of rolling starts.

The online COULD be brilliant at times, 1 out of 50 tries if the host sets up the right car restrictions, otherwise it's random chaos where the race is determined after the first corner in which a rice rocket or redbull supercar pulls ahead, usually on the Nordschleife. And that was after sitting through I don't know how many loading delays. If I had two TV's I could have played a couple of games of MotoGP by the time I actually got into a race and it started.

Of course I Bought GT6, it's an improvement on GT5, but yeah... PS3 is really starting to show it's age by now, i'm too impatient for the loadtimes, i'm still struggling to just play a simple fairly fair online race or tournament. Outside the driving model, series still has a lot of it's traditional problems. Sound, damage, bumpercars with no consequences, online lacking anything but the luck of the draw lobbies. Sure, both GT5 and 6 got patched loads, and improved in a lot of ways, but the PS4 is arriving, time to jump back on the hype train...

With GT Sport I'm excited again, livery editor looks great, recent screenshots, track-side improvements and trailers look promising, lighting spectacular, and I'm sure the physics and driving experience (at higher speeds) will be amazing as always (from that tournament stream for example). I'm glad they are focusing on online, that's my number one problem with the series, I just want to play fairly even online race/tournament with a minute or two of turning my console on. I can do this with Driveclub (even though it's not very sim) and plenty of other games. I'm also glad they are scaling back the car numbers to 'realistic' numbers considering the detail/time involved in this these days.

Will engine sounds, damage, and sense of speed in 'low end' cars be improved? Who knows. Sound at this point is holding back the series in a big way. Damage not so much, but I feel it would discourage bumper cars or wall/barrier riding in a similar way that this proposed 'online racing reputation' thing will. Also no point in having these'speed oval' tracks they insist on without the potential for damage. I reckon sense of speed with lower end cars would be somewhat fixed by just improving the sounds, but they could perhaps adjust the FOV or move/shake the camera just a tad more without breaking the 'sim/realism' rule.

But all these delays, combined with less than stellar reports of anyone seeing it in reality are giving me a serious case of deja vu. Focus on car history and photo-mode locations bewilders me. But I'm holding strong, I'm checking this thread and GTplanet every so often. And of course, this latest delay won't be the last, I know that for sure :-/
 

nasanu

Banned
I mean Kaz has gone a bit Kutaragi in recent years but lowering him to "asshole tier" seems a bit... unfair?

Its super unfair. He is actually a really nice guy. You see him at the events making time for whatever crazy fan wants to talk to him. I watched him talk to one bunch of otaku for about 15mins being polite and taking selfies.

He is softly spoken and personable.
 

Sayad

Member
Your right especially when you only response is that. Did you try reading any of those reviews from the games press? Or are you avoiding talking about that because it doesn't suit your narrative?
You might want to go back and reread my post again(not that I think rereading will help in this case), because none of the reviews mentions the things I specifically asked about, unless of course you have links to those that did!
 

Mascot

Member
Its super unfair. He is actually a really nice guy. You see him at the events making time for whatever crazy fan wants to talk to him. I watched him talk to one bunch of otaku for about 15mins being polite and taking selfies.

He is softly spoken and personable.

The Queen Mother was apparently a lovely old lady, always ready with a warm smile and generously handing out Eccles cakes to orphans and cripples. I wouldn't want her in charge of delivering a triple-A racing game on time and on spec though. She didn't have a fucking clue how to manage resources properly and was always too interested in jetting around the world having tea parties.
 

Gestault

Member
I do think this cult of personality that forms around developers is bad in general. Giving more credence to a game because someone's personable, and by extension, because of bullet points for what they try to do doesn't help a game when it's in front of you. Doubly-so for a simulation (as opposed to an art piece). I can't relate to people who give an unqualified "it's great" to the last generation's worth of GT games. It tells me they've forgotten how truly distinct GT was from the market for its first several titles, and frankly it tells me they may have low standards for the genre now. I can't really put that more gently without diluting my meaning. There are things that GTP/GT5/GT6 do incredibly well, but that's not what I'm seeing brought up when these conversation take this direction.

This is a series that needs focus. I honestly assume GTS is that change. They aren't trying too much, they aren't going overboard with a selection of cars that make production impractical. Fan enthusiasm is great, but hoo boy, this is not a point I think the series needs enthusiasm about the idea of the game at the expense of the actual game.
 

Servbot24

Banned
I don't hold PD to this, but it would have been cool if they specified the cause of the delay. Now I'm going to be speculating whether they are fixing issues or adding new features...

Its super unfair. He is actually a really nice guy. You see him at the events making time for whatever crazy fan wants to talk to him. I watched him talk to one bunch of otaku for about 15mins being polite and taking selfies.

He is softly spoken and personable.

he ASSHOLE me want game NOW
 
I would like to believe that this is so they can take advantage of Neo from day one, or that they really are adding enough content to back Kaz's talk that GTS could be called GT7 because it is so fully featured (nothing they have shown or talked about backs this claim) but the long time GT fanboy knows this is just probably a good ol fashion Kaz and crew delay which is more about their dated practices than actually polishing or adding meaningful content.
 

eifer

Member
Wow, first FFXV and now this.... I didn't see that one coming.
"While we cannot confirm a new release date at this time..." :(
Still though, I'd rather see it delayed than released unfinished.
...you didn't see a gran turismo game getting delayed lol?
 

thelastword

Banned
This is getting sad.
Sure is, but I guess I'm just too dense......;)

They are fixing GT Sport because it is in a bad state.

That´s it.
They are not fixing GT sport because it's in a bad state. Assetto Corsa is a released game, that's in a bad state. Many people have played GTS, there was a tournament and many enjoyed the improved physics. People, mostly forum-goers complained about the graphics more than anything, but that has improved a million fold, just mere days and weeks after that event.

Some people really have no idea how game development works, they want to see games early but fail to realize that everytime you do it's work in progress, especially for a game like GT which does most of it's graphics and framerate polish in the end. I'd rather a game not have any of the polish features like good shadows, good af or filtering, aa at an early reveal than to be missing many of these features when it releases with awful tearing and framerate to boot when it hits the store shelves.

At the very least, if your game looks phenomenal we can understand why it may drop frames, but if you have a bland looking racer that's dropping frames everywhere whilst having fullscreen tearing up the wazoo, then it's no excuse. I'm pretty sure GTS is being delayed for more content, more features and extra polish, not because what the guys played of it so far was unplayable or some 15fps slideshow. It's as if people put GTS in the same bracket as Ark Survival on the XB1 in it's initial phase or even now for crying out loud.......'Not in a good state" is such a disingenuous statement to make, it's baffling tbh.
 

cooldawn

Member
I can't agree with this at all, not one bit. You're acting like PD failing to achieve the fundamentals of a racing game is something we should praise. Being "too ambitious for their own good" is not a positive trait when they neglect the most important feature of all in the actual racing for extra eye candy/useless stuff. I'd rather have a "bland" looking game that runs at 60FPS because at the end of the day they focused on the core gameplay, so the game feels good to race versus the moon buggy simulator that chugs along at 45-55FPS with horrid tearing.
By this measure GT would look and feel like all the other racing games. Not good.

The point is his personal experiences and creative direction leads to genre developments and historical partnerships. Just a quick and easy here but GT5 had a tonne of gameplay changing features and his work with the FIA means we get an official eSports championship. Those things don't come together over-night.

I have absolutely no doubt Kaz has a bucket-list of achievements for Gran Turismo..a long-term plan that will take the franchise well beyond what we know now for years to come. That's the type of ambition we are talking about.

Remember the damage in GT5. It got panned by gamers...but it was the right way to go. Gamers should be ashamed of themselves for that because now damage is just like every other racing game. Crap. Still, none of it's main competitors come close to the breadth and depth of GT5.

Thank god for KazYam.
 

nasanu

Banned
I wouldn't want her in charge of delivering a triple-A racing game on time and on spec though. She didn't have a fucking clue how to manage resources properly and was always too interested in jetting around the world having tea parties.

And that has what to do with his personality?
 
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