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[Metaphoreus]

Here are links to the reports released today:

1. Sims report on use of deadly force
2. Crawford report on use of deadly force
3. Ohio Highway Patrol Reconstruction Report

Source

 

[forgeforsaken]

A shit caller giving bad information should never be an excuse for an officer failing to properly evaluate a situation on their own. We have no control over what random idiots do, we need to expect more from the police that we pay and train to protect us. Using the police as a free hitman service should not be possible or acceptable.

The 911 caller said it was "probably fake". This is more on dispatch and the cops.

 

[Boke1879]

We all saw the video. The cop didn't give the kid a chance to react. Tamir looks NOTHING like a man. So that is bullshit.

 

[PhoenixDark]

We live in a country where open-carry is permissible in many states(including Ohio), so no, just having a gun should never be what is justifiable in the use of deadly force. That should only be an option when there's no other option.

There's a difference between someone openly carrying and pointing a gun, real or fake, at people. The cops' response was ridiculous though.

 

[Kettch]

The 911 caller said it was "probably fake". This is more on dispatch and the cops.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. They still used the call as the primary excuse for the officer's actions though. Just because the dispatcher messed up this time, doesn't change that they shouldn't take that information as 100% accurate and be allowed to do anything they want because of it. We saw how that went with the John Crawford case.

 

[Nelo Ice]

Not only will this continue, it will be cheered on by many Americans.

It still boils my blood that this will happen. Like how I still get annoyed every time I see gun violence and police brutality topics. I am reminded I know someone that will defend murder with a straight face and say everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

 

[RefigeKru]

What makes me laugh so much about the 2nd amendment is that it's worded to supposedly to prevent a "tyrannical" government, yet the fear now intrinsic in American culture maintains a tyranny doled out exclusively by paranoid trigger happy police officers seemily untouchable by law or the public.

And there's sooooo many people okay with it. The same people who would fight tooth and nail to keep things the way they are for supposed freedoms.

It's actually amazing.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Ohio is Open Carry so if they thought Tamir Rice was an adult they had no legal right to stop him. Its like the John Crawford case John Crawford had every legal right to be where he was with with what he had was thought to be a weapon the police officers had no right to shoot him. Yet a grand jury of his peers( which just happen to be 5/6 white) thought the officers did nothing wrong which is absolute bs. The only reason Tamir Rice and John Crawford are dead today is because their skin is few shades too dark for some people and it makes those people uncomfortable and afraid.

Also I would not be surprised if the prosecutor in this case is pulling the same bs the prosecutor in the Mike Brown case pulled.

 

[DY_nasty]

bwaha

okay, america. okay.

 

[Dan]

I must have missed this bit back when this happened. When the officers called in the shooting, "urn, black male, maybe 20." Even up close and holding him down, they think he's an adult.

 

[LionPride]

Jesus Christ, I'm only a few years older than Rice and I fear that some trigger happy cop can shoot me and likely not get in any trouble.

 

[hey_monkey]

I wish I was surprised. I wish I was, but I'm not.

But leaping from the car and immediately murdering someone just doesn't sound like a good reaction in any situation. I understand the cops want to stay safe. I get that. But for fuck's sake, is there really nothing we can do except continue shooting the fuck out of (black) people? IS THERE NO OTHER POSSIBLE METHOD OF POLICING? If only we had some model, somewhere, of how things could go.

 

[PopeReal]

Open carry is not for black people. It is pretty obvious who this law is for.

 

[Kettch]

Ohio is Open Carry so if they thought Tamir Rice was an adult they had no legal right to stop him. Its like the John Crawford case John Crawford had every legal right to be where he was with with what he had was thought to be a weapon the police officers had no right to shoot him. Yet a grand jury of his peers( which just happen to be 5/6 white) thought the officers did nothing wrong which is absolute bs. The only reason Tamir Rice and John Crawford are dead today is because their skin is few shades too dark for some people and it makes those people uncomfortable and afraid.

Also I would not be surprised if the prosecutor in this case is pulling the same bs the prosecutor in the Mike Brown case pulled.

You should have heard the prosecutor in the Crawford case when he was explaining the grand jury's decision. He was 100% behind it. The prosecutor, with not a hint of disappointment at his failure.

 

[Kusagari]

The cops clearly fucked up but why are people bringing up open carry?

Open carry does not allow you to wave a gun around willy-nilly.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

I wish I was surprised. I wish I was, but I'm not.

But leaping from the car and immediately murdering someone just doesn't sound like a good reaction in any situation. I understand the cops want to stay safe. I get that. But for fuck's sake, is there really nothing we can do except continue shooting the fuck out of (black) people? IS THERE NO OTHER POSSIBLE METHOD OF POLICING? If only we had some model, somewhere, of how things could go.

Of course there is a better way. That people have to wonder if things can be better is a symptom of how bad things are, but there is absolutely a better way. The police in this country need to be reformed from top to bottom.

 

[birthday-suit]

Open carry is not for black people. It is pretty obvious who this law is for.

Yes.

 

[not psycho]

Black Boys Viewed as Older, Less Innocent Than Whites, Research Finds

The sequence of events for a 12-year-old Black boy with a toy gun.

1. 911: there's a man waving and pointing a gun, probably fake
2. Dispatch: there's a man waving and pointing a gun!
3. Officers crazily rush in
4. Officers immediately shoot the kid, giving him no time to react

Every one of these events is awful. First he is a "man waving and pointing a gun" because he is seen as older and less innocent. Then the officers don't hear the part where it is probably fake. Then the officers rush in right next to him, which I still don't understand. They had to check out what was going on, but instead they came in so fast and so close that if it was a dangerous man with a gun they'd both be dead. Nevertheless, they immediately shoot him, with no time for him to comprehend what was happening (they had plenty of time to comprehend everything before and during rushing up to him).

On top of this, when they got there he was not waving or pointing a gun. He was not making threats, nor were they told that he had been. So all of their previous actions of stupidity are more than enough to get them kicked off the force forever and convicted of manslaughter... but that's before getting to the question of why they had to shoot him. Someone not waving, not pointing, not threatening, when guns are legal, even if we assume they genuinely saw him as 20 years old.

 

[bucyou55]

The only reason Tamir Rice and John Crawford are dead today is because their skin is few shades too dark for some people and it makes those people uncomfortable and afraid.

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

 

[ahoyhoy]

The sequence of events for a 12-year-old Black boy with a toy gun.

1. 911: there's a man waving and pointing a gun, probably fake
2. Dispatch: there's a man waving and pointing a gun!
3. Officers crazily rush in
4. Officers immediately shoot the kid, giving him no time to react

Every one of these events is awful. First he is a "man waving and pointing a gun" because he is seen as older and less innocent. Then the officers don't hear the part where it is probably fake. Then the officers rush in right next to him, which I still don't understand. They had to check out what was going on, but instead they came in so fast and so close that if it was a dangerous man with a gun they'd both be dead. Nevertheless, they immediately shoot him, with no time for him to comprehend what was happening (they had plenty of time to comprehend everything before and during rushing up to him).

On top of this, when they got there he was not waving or pointing a gun. He was not making threats, nor were they told that he had been. So all of their previous actions of stupidity are more than enough to get them kicked off the force forever and convicted of manslaughter... but that's before getting to the question of why they had to shoot him. Someone not waving, not pointing, not threatening, when guns are legal, even if we assume they genuinely saw him as 20 years old.

I think the best-case scenario for the officers was that they were just fucking dumbasses who decided to drive directly up to an "armed suspect" and confront him. When they step out of the car, they immediately realize how fucking stupid they were to just drive up and give an "armed suspect" an opportunity to open fire one them, so they decide the best course of action is to shoot first before the "armed suspect" has any time to react.

So, basically, the cops are either
1) Racist ass fucks who really felt like they were justified killing any black person regardless of age or threat level
2) Ill-trained dumbasses who put themselves into a situation in which they immediately felt fearful of their lives and therefore drew their weapons inappropriately.
3) Somewhere in between.

 

[Dougieflesh]

Can't even get justice for a 12 year old boy with visual evidence. RIP Tamir

 

[hey_monkey]

Of course there is a better way. That people have to wonder if things can be better is a symptom of how bad things are, but there is absolutely a better way. The police in this country need to be reformed from top to bottom.

Yeah, it was sarcastic. Of course they do. The testing is shit, the training is shit, the behavior is shit.

eta: everyone, I do not recommend reading #TamirRice on twitter; smugly crowing racists are out in force.

 

[Kusagari]

I think the best-case scenario for the officers was that they were just fucking dumbasses who decided to drive directly up to an "armed suspect" and confront him. When they step out of the car, they immediately realize how fucking stupid they were to just drive up and give an "armed suspect" an opportunity to open fire one them, so they decide the best course of action is to shoot first before the "armed suspect" has any time to react.

So, basically, the cops are either
1) Racist ass fucks who really felt like they were justified killing any black person regardless of age or threat level
2) Ill-trained dumbasses who put themselves into a situation in which they immediately felt fearful of their lives and therefore drew their weapons inappropriately.
3) Somewhere in between.

This is the main reason the cops are obviously at fault. They pull up like they're auditioning for a new Die Hard movie.

The Sims review actually says this nugget: "As they arrived, Officer Garmback drove the patrol car to the gazebo where one party was located. He approached and stopped in such fashion that Officer Loehmann was in a position of great peril-he was within feet of a gunman who had stood up, was approaching the police car and reaching toward his waistband. The officers did not create the violent situation-they were responding to a situation fraught with the potential for violence to citizens."

Somehow Garmback's dumbass parking right in front of what they assumed was an armed gunman didn't create the violent situation.

Right...

 

[Angelus Errare]

The cops clearly fucked up but why are people bringing up open carry?

Open carry does not allow you to wave a gun around willy-nilly.

Watch the video

 

[Jmanunknown]

You should have heard the prosecutor in the Crawford case when he was explaining the grand jury's decision. He was 100% behind it. The prosecutor, with not a hint of disappointment at his failure.

I remember that guy Mark Piepmeier. I was really disgusted with his fake sincerity. I bet he actually did let the racist guy who called the cops on John Crawford actually see the surveillance videos they had before he decided to release them so he could change his story to try to fit what ever bs narrative they wanted to craft problem is the dummy had told his story to any media outlet that would listen though its not like it would have mattered anyway.

 

[Kusagari]

Watch the video

I know he wasn't waving it around when the cops showed up. But to the cops knowledge he had been waving and "pointing" it previously. So, to their knowledge he had already violated open carry laws.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

Do you have an..alternative reason, buckaroo?

I know he wasn't waving it around when the cops showed up. But to the cops knowledge he had been waving and "pointing" it previously. So, to their knowledge he had already violated open carry laws.

So..shoot first. Yeah. That's why they get away with it..people agree that the behavior is ok..

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

Oh, that's adorable.

 

[RefigeKru]

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

 

[RedSwirl]

I still can't get over how one of the cops said "black male down, looks 20," after Rice went down and they had a chance to look at him.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I still can't get over how one of the cops said "black male down, looks 20," after Rice went down and they had a chance to look at him.

Black 12 is the new 20-25..classic mistake.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I know he wasn't waving it around when the cops showed up. But to the cops knowledge he had been waving and "pointing" it previously. So, to their knowledge he had already violated open carry laws.

Their information is second hand and flimsy and should have been treated as such. "Waving a gun around" 20 minutes before you arrive on the scene does not give justification in any state to kill someone. It's the same law that prevents a cop from giving you a ticket for speeding 30 minutes before he decides to pull you over for said offense.

 

[MWS Natural]

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

Bullshit generalizations? Really? Come out of your Fox News hole sometime and sample reality every once in awhile. As long as people like you exist unarmed black kids will continue to die "justifiably" at the hands of police. Because there will always be an asshole like you who will play as many mental gymnastics as needed to make it justified.

 

[cdyhybrid]

System is broken.

 

[Angelus Errare]

System is broken.

No, it's working as intended.

 

[hey_monkey]

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

Oh yeah, let's compare photos of white dudes chilling on their phones after actual shootings, or being fed fast food after actual shootings, etc., etc., to pictures of bodies with fake guns and no real threat.

Yeah, total conspiracy, hur hur, let's make some fucking jokes while we wait around to see what ridiculous bullshit goes down next.

 

[bishoptl]

Forget your tin foil hat today?


See, anyone can make bullshit generalisations!

Kindly go piss up a rope.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Fuck these piece of shit cops.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I know he wasn't waving it around when the cops showed up. But to the cops knowledge he had been waving and "pointing" it previously. So, to their knowledge he had already violated open carry laws.

Open Carry laws should apply to everyone but in reality they do not. White people get arrested people of color get killed that is how it generally goes in open carry situations. Here are some situations with white people open carrying and literally pointing the gun at people and threatening police officers yet not being killed.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/joseph-houseman-open-carry_n_5501883.html


http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local...leads-not-guilty-to-gun-charge-272083281.html


http://www.timesnews.net/article/90...ugust-arrested-again-for-road-rage-with-a-gun

http://www.wmur.com/news/police-man-arrested-after-shooting-bb-gun-at-officers/28219706

http://www.wfmj.com/story/27753282/...er-pointing-gun-at-new-castle-police-officers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy6EVbrBpOY

 

[ryutaro's mama]

No, it's working as intended.

You tell no lies.

 

[Future]

Is it standard practice for police who believe someone has a gun to zoom right up to the person without warning? If the police were in a "position of great peril" I would argue they willingly put themselves there.

That's my question. Even if you know someone has a concealed weapon, you are authorized to pull up and shoot first and ask questions later? Or is that in the appendix titled: "if the perp is black..."

 

[The Faceless Master]

... and then people get upset when you say Black Lives Matter

Spoiler

because THEY know that's a lie

 

[Armaros]

I know he wasn't waving it around when the cops showed up. But to the cops knowledge he had been waving and "pointing" it previously. So, to their knowledge he had already violated open carry laws.

So why dont we hear instances of similar things happening across the nation regarding open carry?

With how politicized open carry is, the media would zero-in on any conflict between open carry and police. And yet a 12 year old boy gets instantly shot holding a toy gun in an open carry state.

How odd.

 

[Stinkles]

We have too many guns.

We have deeply ingrained institutional racism.

We have very poorly organized multiplicative and arbitrarily controlled police departments.


And that's why a 12 year old boy is dead. And his killers are right now being defended by racists, fence sitters and even good people.

 

[Metaphoreus]

This is the main reason the cops are obviously at fault. They pull up like they're auditioning for a new Die Hard movie.

The Sims review actually says this nugget: "As they arrived, Officer Garmback drove the patrol car to the gazebo where one party was located. He approached and stopped in such fashion that Officer Loehmann was in a position of great peril-he was within feet of a gunman who had stood up, was approaching the police car and reaching toward his waistband. The officers did not create the violent situation-they were responding to a situation fraught with the potential for violence to citizens."

Somehow Garmback's dumbass parking right in front of what they assumed was an armed gunman didn't create the violent situation.

Right...

Crawford makes an interesting point on this:

t is significant to note that Officers Garmback and Loehmann received information that there was an armed individual sitting on the swings in the park outside a recreation center. Considering this an obvious risk to the community, the officers quickly proceeded to the park in a manner that would take them to the swings. However, when they arrived at the park and observed there was no one on the swings, it is likely that they continued on until they spotted an individual matching the 911 callers description. At that time, they were within a few feet of the pavilion where Rice was located.

The main reason that the cops pulling up on Rice so quickly looks so bad is because we assume they know where he is. But if they were focused on the swingset, rather than the gazebo further ahead, they may have concluded that the person they were looking for had left (or that the call was bogus) when they didn't see him at the swings, and so sped up after they passed the swings. In that scenario, they could have been surprised upon suddenly seeing a person matching the description as they passed the gazebo, and so put on the brakes. The focus on the swingset would also explain why they decided to enter the park from 99th St. rather than try to survey the park from the parking lot adjacent to the gazebo--as you can see below, there is a line of trees between that parking lot and the swingset (the diagram on the left is from the Ohio Highway Patrol report):

As you can see from the above, the decision to enter the park was made well before the police knew where Rice was, and likely because it offered the only clear view of the swingset. We don't know how fast the car was driving as it passed the swingset, which is where the police would have expected Rice to be based on the dispatcher's description. The Highway Patrol report estimates they were traveling at 19 mph before braking by the gazebo, where they might not have expected to see Rice.

That said, all that is just speculation. I still think it matters a great deal whether they intentionally pulled up right next to Rice or stopped when they saw him unexpectedly. Unfortunately, as the reports point out, the two cops involved aren't talking. (I assume this is why the prosecutor complains about the police union being uncooperative with his investigation at the webpage where he posted the reports.)

 

[Big Baybee]

Please god let there be massive protests. Fuck this bullshit.

 

[Juice]

Why doesn't the US just ban toy guns?

We managed to ban candy cigarettes.

 

[Nothing1016]

Why doesn't the US just ban toy guns?

We managed to ban candy cigarettes.

Gotta get them excited for guns while they are young.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Why doesn't the US just ban toy guns?

We managed to ban candy cigarettes.

Well that's because cigarettes are dangerous!

 

[PopeReal]

Please god let there be massive protests. Fuck this bullshit.

Then we can see the hand wringing and concern by many members here. Protest the right way, don't bother me, blah blah blah.