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[Stinkles]

Crawford makes an interesting point on this:



The main reason that the cops pulling up on Rice so quickly looks so bad is because we assume they know where he is. But if they were focused on the swingset, rather than the gazebo further ahead, they may have concluded that the person they were looking for had left (or that the call was bogus) when they didn't see him at the swings, and so sped up after they passed the swings. In that scenario, they could have been surprised upon suddenly seeing a person matching the description as they passed the gazebo, and so put on the brakes. The focus on the swingset would also explain why they decided to enter the park from 99th St. rather than try to survey the park from the parking lot adjacent to the gazebo--as you can see below, there is a line of trees between that parking lot and the swingset (the diagram on the left is from the Ohio Highway Patrol report):

As you can see from the above, the decision to enter the park was made well before the police knew where Rice was, and likely because it offered the only clear view of the swingset. We don't know how fast the car was driving as it passed the swingset, which is where the police would have expected Rice to be based on the dispatcher's description. The Highway Patrol report estimates they were traveling at 19 mph before braking by the gazebo, where they might not have expected to see Rice.

That said, all that is just speculation. I still think it matters a great deal whether they intentionally pulled up right next to Rice or stopped when they saw him unexpectedly. Unfortunately, as the reports point out, the two cops involved aren't talking. (I assume this is why the prosecutor complains about the police union being uncooperative with his investigation at the webpage where he posted the reports.)

Weirdly what you're describing is that they kept driving till they saw a black human and immediately shot him.

 

[NeoGold123]

First thing you do as an officer is assess the situation, regardless of what you heard from dispatch (has a gun or no weapons reported), the officer on site should be assessing the threat for himself. First thing he did incorrectly was vehicle placement. Should've been parked on the street, dashcam facing incident and doors open and available for cover. Second was no verbal warning to the assailant (IE lay your weapon down slowly). No attempt to properly arrest was made, they fully brought any danger upon themselves and should be held accountable in all of these poor judgements that led to a very avoidable fatality.

 

[Dead Man]

For fucks sake. Poor fucking family.

First thing you do as an officer is assess the situation, regardless of what you heard from dispatch (has a gun or no weapons reported), the officer on site should be assessing the threat for himself. First thing he did incorrectly was vehicle placement. Should've been parked on the street, dashcam facing incident and doors open and available for cover. Second was no verbal warning to the assailant (IE lay your weapon down slowly). No attempt to properly arrest was made, they fully brought any danger upon themselves and should be held accountable in all of these poor judgements that led to a very avoidable fatality.

And yet none of that will matter. Fuckers worried more about defending criminals wearing blue than preventing future killings.

 

[dejay]

This isn't the first time that shitheads calling 911 giving shit information has lead to police going all in. The guy in the Walmart comes to mind. But honestly, police shouldn't just rely on caller statements and should establish what's going on for themselves. This situation is disgusting even moreso since we all pretty much knew this was how it would play out. Our policing policies need to be gutted and rebuilt from the bottom up and everyone needs to be retrained or booted.

Also, fuck that prosecutor.

Pretty much sums it all up.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

For fucks sake. Poor fucking family.

Its hard to imagine how I would be feeling or what I might do had this been my little brother.

 

[Christopher]

First thing you do as an officer is assess the situation, regardless of what you heard from dispatch (has a gun or no weapons reported), the officer on site should be assessing the threat for himself. First thing he did incorrectly was vehicle placement. Should've been parked on the street, dashcam facing incident and doors open and available for cover. Second was no verbal warning to the assailant (IE lay your weapon down slowly). No attempt to properly arrest was made, they fully brought any danger upon themselves and should be held accountable in all of these poor judgements that led to a very avoidable fatality.

You're a cop?

Can you imagine...12? Wow you're whole life ahead of you I can't even imagine what Ms. Rice must be feeling

 

[adamsappel]

Would he have INSTANTLY shot a 12 year old white kid with a pellet gun?

The answer is no. Mostly because a local shithead would not have called the cops, but the black people are time lords thread also contains some horrifying science.

Doesn't the time-dilation only happen if you're not a racist? To a bigot, blacks move at a faster pace.

On the day of the Million Man march no less...

If I was in any position to "announce" anything, I would always do a what-happened-on-this-date search.

Though it's something of a separate issue, I think all toy guns should be colorful to help prevent this kind of thing. But I suppose if someone is going to go to the trouble to remove the orange tips, they'd probably have no trouble spray painting an all orange toy gun to look more real.

The thing is, a gun that looks like a toy is probably the real thing, but marketed to kids.

 

[Christopher]

Why is this being sold as s pellet gun????

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What makes me laugh so much about the 2nd amendment is that it's worded to supposedly to prevent a "tyrannical" government, yet the fear now intrinsic in American culture maintains a tyranny doled out exclusively by paranoid trigger happy police officers seemily untouchable by law or the public.

And there's sooooo many people okay with it. The same people who would fight tooth and nail to keep things the way they are for supposed freedoms.

It's actually amazing.

The people most into the 2nd amendment who would support behavior like this are shitty ass conservative white people, because they understand the whole system is set up to protect them. They know Tamir Rice would never happen to them.

Their fear is actually people recognizing just how much power and privilege they have and that it would all be taken away so that they would have to live like everyone else. They might not even know this is what they're afraid of, because that privilege has been invisibly there for them their whole lives. It's exactly why they're also afraid of the day in the 2040s when white people are the minority in America, because they know minorities here get treated like fucking shit. Why else be afraid of it?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Please god let there be massive protests. Fuck this bullshit.

Why? What's the point? It'll just be explained away. Read up a bit..you'll see it..

 

[TheFakeMccoy]

I have said this before, but at what point can someone shoot a cop and claim they feared for their lives? It use to be a ridiculous question but now not so much.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I have said this before, but at what point can someone shoot a cop and claim they feared for their lives? It use to be a ridiculous question but now not so much.

For too many reasons to list, that's ridiculous. I understand the question, but yeah..no.

 

[Byakuya769]

Tamir was a child playing on his own in a park. If the justice system don't see his murder by the police as a reality check that the methods employed are endangering every citizen in the US and should be changed then I don't know what will? And innocent people, including children, will continue to be murdered by police.

*black kid, +7 to age stat.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

The people most into the 2nd amendment who would support behavior like this are shitty ass conservative white people, because they understand the whole system is set up to protect them. They know Tamir Rice would never happen to them.

Their fear is actually people recognizing just how much power and privilege they have and that it would all be taken away so that they would have to live like everyone else. They might not even know this is what they're afraid of, because that privilege has been invisibly there for them their whole lives. It's exactly why they're also afraid of the day in the 2040s when white people are the minority in America, because they know minorities here get treated like fucking shit. Why else be afraid of it?

It really does seem that way, just look at Fox News Facebook quotes. Nothing is being taken away it's just that the push is to make everyone equal, they act like there is outrage from the left but actually most of the outrage is from them.

 

[cdyhybrid]

No, it's working as intended.

You're right.

Broken compared to how it should be if you have a conscience though =\

 

[TheFakeMccoy]

For too many reasons to list, that's ridiculous. I understand the question, but yeah..no.

How is this a ridiculous question? Its the same thing that get's cop's out of trouble and even what separates self defense from murder charges.

 

[Rootbeer]

Thing is people call the cops all the time and EXAGGERATE on purpose to get the response they most want out of the police.

I'm guilty of it in the past as well: In my 20s I worked as a nightwatchman for a while and I couldn't get the police to respond to a goddamn thing when we had robbery attempts so I learned that to get them to actually respond to shit you had to exaggerate the details sometimes. I didn't like doing it but the people I worked for wanted results and I did what I needed to do. (not race related, just exaggerate the suspect's actions)

But, the flip side of this is responders and police should be VERY aware that people are going to exaggerate and that should be in their minds when responding to these kinds of reports. When this cop was rolling up on this kid how could he not have noticed the person's size and NOT have had second thoughts... just baffles me.

 

[NeoGold123]

You're a cop?

Can you imagine...12? Wow you're whole life ahead of you I can't even imagine what Ms. Rice must be feeling

Not yet, unfortunately. Dad was a cop for 15 years, older sister was dispatch, brother-in-law police detective and high ranking army official, a lot of police work is just called common sense in our family.

To see these shameful actions though, with no accountability to the officers, is deplorable and blood boiling and just an insult to all the fine officers that do their job properly with everyone in the community at heart.

I do feel like Tamir was placing himself in danger with his own actions pointing a gun at random strangers should've been something his parents cautioned him about, no matter how realistic or fake a gun looks, you're pointing what could be conceived as a weapon at people and this is dangerous. Something I was taught at a similar age with my bright orange rubber dart gun. But, this is not to say it wasn't on the officers to de-escalate the situation.

 

[KHarvey16]

I have said this before, but at what point can someone shoot a cop and claim they feared for their lives? It use to be a ridiculous question but now not so much.

In most states, as far as I know, unlawful arrest or unlawful force used during an arrest is considered a form of assault and battery. I think there are exceptions when a person is resisting and the force is due to that resistance but, in general, in such cases a person can use proportional and reasonable force to defend themselves.

 

[TheFakeMccoy]

Not yet, unfortunately. Dad was a cop for 15 years, older sister was dispatch, brother-in-law police detective and high ranking army official, a lot of police work is just called common sense in our family.

To see these shameful actions though, with no accountability to the officers, is deplorable and blood boiling and just an insult to all the fine officers that do their job properly with everyone in the community at heart.

I do feel like Tamir was placing himself in danger with his own actions pointing a gun at random strangers should've been something his parents cautioned him about, no matter how realistic or fake a gun looks, you're pointing what could be conceived as a weapon at people and this is dangerous. Something I was taught at a similar age with my bright orange rubber dart gun. But, this is not to say it wasn't on the officers to de-escalate the situation.

Yes how dare that 12 year old child not know that playing with a toy gun in a public park would get him gunned down in 2 seconds with no warning issued. Damn kids these day.
/s

 

[Stinkles]

Not yet, unfortunately. Dad was a cop for 15 years, older sister was dispatch, brother-in-law police detective and high ranking army official, a lot of police work is just called common sense in our family.

To see these shameful actions though, with no accountability to the officers, is deplorable and blood boiling and just an insult to all the fine officers that do their job properly with everyone in the community at heart.

I do feel like Tamir was placing himself in danger with his own actions pointing a gun at random strangers should've been something his parents cautioned him about, no matter how realistic or fake a gun looks, you're pointing what could be conceived as a weapon at people and this is dangerous. Something I was taught at a similar age with my bright orange rubber dart gun. But, this is not to say it wasn't on the officers to de-escalate the situation.

Our country is broken. Not Tamir. Let's fix the country. Because Tamir is irreparable.

 

[JDSN]

I see minorities's status in America remain firmly in "Aint shit" territory. "Go back to Africa" is sounding less like a racist comment and more like an actual friendly advice.

 

[timetokill]

Man, it's really trivial to effectively put out a hit on a black male in America today. Totally legal, highly effective, and completely free!

 

[SolarMystic]

First, why the fuck would they not inform the officers that the caller said the gun may be a fake??

Second, they should have stayed in the car or gone behind it and demand the kid to drop the gun. Last time I checked, this country has crazy open gun laws that allow people to carry firearms.

 

[NeoGold123]

Yes how dare that 12 year old child not know that playing with a toy gun in a public park would get him gunned down in 2 seconds with no warning issued. Damn kids these day.
/s

Did you read my previous post or get past the "I do feel like Tamir" bit or just go straight for the snark? I'm on your side.

Our country is broken. Not Tamir. Let's fix the country. Because Tamir is irreparable.

Very, very, very much agreed, which is why I put that last part about it being on the police to de-escalate. We see it in the news too often and there needs to be a change.

 

[Vicetrailia]

The courts are wrong. A simple fact. This is broken injustice, tyranny of injustice.

 

[Messofanego]

First thing you do as an officer is assess the situation, regardless of what you heard from dispatch (has a gun or no weapons reported), the officer on site should be assessing the threat for himself. First thing he did incorrectly was vehicle placement. Should've been parked on the street, dashcam facing incident and doors open and available for cover. Second was no verbal warning to the assailant (IE lay your weapon down slowly). No attempt to properly arrest was made, they fully brought any danger upon themselves and should be held accountable in all of these poor judgements that led to a very avoidable fatality.

I wish the defendants get to raise up the incompetent policing at work. This cop didn't follow any protocols, deserves jail.

 

[Symphonia]

A retired FBI agent and a Denver prosecutor both found the rookie patrolman who shot Tamir Rice exercised a reasonable use of force because he had reason to perceive the boy — described in a 911 call as man waving and pointing a gun — as a serious threat.

This is some serious bullshit.

He was twelve years old.

Twelve.

Let's be honest, the only reason they considered him a 'serious threat' and shot him was because he was black.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I have said this before, but at what point can someone shoot a cop and claim they feared for their lives? It use to be a ridiculous question but now not so much.

during a no knock home invasion at the wrong address while you're white. that's pretty much it.

 

[YourMaster]

I keep finding this strange,... in a country where 'open carry' permits are a thing, isn't the only course of action from the police saying 'goodday sir, could you please show me your identification and permit for your firearm?'.

 

[Siegcram]

Oh well, if you say so. Not like we have a drive-by on video or anything.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If ever there was a good judge of police conduct (or lack thereof), it's two people who probably spent their careers covering up the misconduct of police officers.

I keep finding this strange,... in a country where 'open carry' permits are a thing, isn't the only course of action from the police saying 'goodday sir, could you please show me your identification and permit for your firearm?'.

An exception is made when the person with the firearm is perceived as being lesser.

I wish the defendants get to raise up the incompetent policing at work. This cop didn't follow any protocols, deserves prison.

FTFY

Murderers shouldn't go to jail

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

This is why I feel like other departments need to be just as accessible as the police. They shouldn't be called for everything, and definitely not allowed to do THIS.

But the American culture of fear built this system. Caused this death.

 

[hey_monkey]

I do feel like Tamir was placing himself in danger with his own actions pointing a gun at random strangers should've been something his parents cautioned him about, no matter how realistic or fake a gun looks, you're pointing what could be conceived as a weapon at people and this is dangerous. Something I was taught at a similar age with my bright orange rubber dart gun. But, this is not to say it wasn't on the officers to de-escalate the situation.

I understand what you're saying, and why, and the last part is particularly important. But we have got to stop blaming children in any capacity. This was a child, and he is dead for playing. Full stop. Saying he should have been aware or should have been taught better or anything doesn't change the reality. Black parents cannot possibly teach their children to not do everything that might put them at risk (standing, running, using their eyes, trying to catch the bus, etc.), but even without that, we cannot put that onus on children.

 

[_illmatic_]

Cops don't roll up on white kids open carrying with real guns with quarter of the force they use when they get call of a "black male with a gun"

 

[cameron]

"We are not reaching any conclusions from these reports," Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty said in a statement. "The gathering of evidence continues, and the grand jury will evaluate it all."

That's nice.

Lamar Sims, the chief deputy district attorney in Denver, also concluded that Loehmann's actions were reasonable based on statements from witnesses and a reconstruction of what happened that day.

Sims said the officers had no idea if the pellet gun was a real gun when they arrived, and that Loehmann was in a position of great peril because he was within feet of Tamir as the boy approached the cruiser and reached toward his waistband.

"The officers did not create the violent situation," Sims wrote in his review. "They were responding to a situation fraught with the potential for violence to citizens."

This is the type of "expert" nonsense the prosecutor is going to present to the grand jury.

 

[Mr. X]

How can this be justified when the cop who shot was fired before for being mentally unstable?

 

[A Link to the Past]

That's nice.


This is the type of "expert" nonsense the prosecutor is going to present to the grand jury.

"Approached the cruiser"? The cruiser approached him! It sped up to him and the officer shot within seconds of arrival. I guess black kids should be blamed for being alarmed by a vehicle blazing towards them.

 

[Wilsongt]

So if you're a black, 12-year old kid minding your own business in the park and some white person calls the cops, it's perfectly okay for the cops to roll up and gun you down like a drive by.

Got it.

Fuck those people.

 

[Blader]

Fucking shit. How do you type up a report saying "Murder of 12-year-old boy was justified" and sleep at night.

 

[Bodacious]

Ohio is Open Carry so if they thought Tamir Rice was an adult they had no legal right to stop him. Its like the John Crawford case John Crawford had every legal right to be where he was with with what he had was thought to be a weapon the police officers had no right to shoot him. Yet a grand jury of his peers( which just happen to be 5/6 white) thought the officers did nothing wrong which is absolute bs. The only reason Tamir Rice and John Crawford are dead today is because their skin is few shades too dark for some people and it makes those people uncomfortable and afraid.

Also I would not be surprised if the prosecutor in this case is pulling the same bs the prosecutor in the Mike Brown case pulled.

No, he's on video pointing the gun at people, before the cops got there. There was cause to stop him and investigate, and probably detain him (i.e. juvenile detention). But they fucked it all up and killed him when it didn't have to be that way.

Why is this being sold as s pellet gun????

I assume it's an airsoft gun. It should have an orange tip on the barrel or slide, and it's illegal to remove it, but it wouldn't have changed anything in this case. I hate that airsoft shit. Not accurate, no defensible purpose for existing (a legit air gun is at least accurate and useful for pest control), and made to look as much like a specific real firearm as possible. How stupid and pointless, yet dangerous, is that?

Ironically it's Japan that makes the best airsoft stuff AFAIK. Insanely popular there because (mostly) no real guns allowed.

 

[Big Baybee]

It's impossible for police to police themselves. We know this. Now, what's going to be done about it?

 

[Lashley]

Pathetic.

Absolutely and truly pathetic.

 

[Walpurgis]

Why is this being sold as s pellet gun????

I don't understand why that suddenly matters in a country where people walk in Walmart carrying assault rifles.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

It's time to start holding citizens just as responsible as the police, especially if their misinformation leads to these types of completely preventable deaths and tragedies.

A country is only as good as its citizen's abilities to look after their fellows; treating some of those fellows as criminals just because of what they look like is not the pillar on which a strong nation stands on.

Eventually the weight will come crashing down on everybody.

Not yet, unfortunately. Dad was a cop for 15 years, older sister was dispatch, brother-in-law police detective and high ranking army official, a lot of police work is just called common sense in our family.

To see these shameful actions though, with no accountability to the officers, is deplorable and blood boiling and just an insult to all the fine officers that do their job properly with everyone in the community at heart.

I do feel like Tamir was placing himself in danger with his own actions pointing a gun at random strangers should've been something his parents cautioned him about, no matter how realistic or fake a gun looks, you're pointing what could be conceived as a weapon at people and this is dangerous. Something I was taught at a similar age with my bright orange rubber dart gun. But, this is not to say it wasn't on the officers to de-escalate the situation.

I'm going to be 100% honest with you for a moment...find another career path. Even if you turn out to be one of the few good cops, your reputation will be tarnished and ruined by the bad cops pulling episodes like this out of their ass, negating any good efforts you put forth. And you may not believe it now but you'll find yourself going by the "no snitching" rule prominent w/ cops just to make by in your unit and district, otherwise your other cops will treat you like shit.

I'm not a cop, I just know a little something about it is all. There are other ways you can serve to protect the public without being associated with something seen as innately negative by a growing segment of the population, especially with the black and Latino groups you're (hopefully) wanting to be seen as a positive model cop with. At the very least, try and become a detective; kind of in the same line of thing as cops, but not marred by all the problems and bureaucracy of them.

 

[Toxi]

It's time to start holding citizens just as responsible as the police

So not holding them responsible at all?

 

[PopeReal]

How come cops don't roll up and kill white guys walking around with guns? There must be something stopping them.

 

[DarthWoo]

It's time to start holding citizens just as responsible as the police, especially if their misinformation leads to these types of completely preventable deaths and tragedies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not sure how many callers there were, but didn't the first caller specifically say that the gun was "probably a toy?"

 

[Jmanunknown]

I find it odd that some people want to deflect from a 12 year kid being shot on site by a police officer talking about airsoft guns and orange tips when when people in ohio are allowed to walk around legally with enough power to take down a couple of predators. .

 

[googleplex]

If that murderer in blue gets off. Riots would be completely justified.

And no I'm not kidding.