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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

JCreasy

Member
I finally finished Callisto Protocol last night, thanks, in part, to the stills from this thread.

It gets so much right visually for me. Hard to believe it’s cross-gen, Unreal Engine 4. When it originally came out, I believed it was the clearest signal of where next-gen visuals were going.

I have a new controversial opinion.

I love Insomniac. LOVE THEM.

And . . . I wish Striking Distance Studios was working on Wolverine.
 

Nafeken

Member
There were few games that gave me a real next-gen feeling. Yes there are a lot of tech demos that look very impressive to show what is possible with today's engines but ultimately I want to play games. On PC, I was particularly taken by Alan Wake 2, Cyberpunk 2077, RoboCop and Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, the latter especially because I was very impressed by the overall composition of details, the size of the world and the technology such as Real Time Global Illumination.

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CamHostage

Member
This is impressive to me:


These kind of animations that have "physicality" applied to them and react to the world in a meaningful way will always be better and more impressive than ones that are just animations IMHO.

It's cool to look at, sure. Once you have to play with these kinds of animations in a videogame like LittleBigPlanet however, you realize why they only use these systems sparingly when players are in control (or design whole games around just that type of movement mechanics, as in Storror Parkour Pro.) Otherwise, they blend in a ton of hand-crafted or mocapped animation into the animation routines where physical animation systems are used, or just cheat the physics out for the animation they want, so that the game is responsive to play. A game like GTA4, for example, it's got the cool (old) Euphoria "ragdoll stuntman" system in it, but it still took a crew of ace animators to make most of the movement you see in the game, as well as transitional animations to blend from ragdoll to working avatar.

There's way more physical and computer-assisted animation systems in games than most people understand. Look at Ubisoft's breakthrough work in machine-learned motion-matching, or UE's modern IK systems, or some of the advances in face movement representation. But first rule of game design is, it's gotta be fun to play.

Why random guy on the web can do these kind of animations and quadruple A studio are stuck with PS2 ones? (Like the new Star Wars Outlaws trailer when she jumps)

Although I have a lot of questions about that jumping shot in the Star Wars Outlaws trailer, (primarily, why'd they include it, why'd they retain that angle of view, why pick such a barren and flatly-lit area to show an action moment in such a short trailer, etc.), but basically the answer appears to be that this is a gameplay jump, not a cutscene jump. If a jumping move is in the director's hands, they can make it realistic, they can make it exciting, they can make it look fun from the angle they choose; if a jump is in the player's hands, those factors have to play backseat to whether it works in gameplay. You want a character to be able to jump twice their height and a full long jump pit from either foot in a sprint because when players press that A button, they expect the character to jump a chasm and survive. When viewed from a gameplay perspective, the cheats needed to make a gameplay jump seem authentic-enough in the moment work; when viewed from other angles as in this trailer, gameplay animations can look stupid.

(The Outlaws gameplay jump is still something I hope gets cleaned up further, I'm a little surprised what it is and is not doing given Ubi/Massive's general animation systems. However, I would imagine you won't notice this goofiness we're stuck on in the trailer for the most part.)

For comparison, from the same trailer, the jumping animation below is pretty clearly fully-animated, with proper momentum leading into the jump, arms swinging to balance and the takeoff foot planted then extended and the knees cycling to reach out and throw body weight forward, plus the overall height of the jump being barely waist-high despite her running and jumping with all her might.

giphy.gif


...versus the iffy leap sequence from the trailer. She leaps 8 feet in the air, she makes the jump from what almost looks like a stutter-step of the push-off foot, she doesn't wheel much in the air to maintain balance, and she just looks like a video game character. Which, she is.


SZoLh.gif


(An animator could add more of that physicality into the jump animation, but then that could either affect the timing of responsiveness or make it difficult to blend shooting or other actions into a jump. More realistic can mean less playable, and animators have to strike a balance.)
 
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CamHostage

Member

good news

Project Awakening is Not Cancelled; Developer is “Working Hard Behind the Scenes”​



Yikes, it's been a while... this was originally announced as a PS4 game. (Technically, on the official Project Awakening page, it's still a PS4 game, no PS5 listed.)

Sourcing for this news seems to be coming from an X page for Project Awakening, but this is not verified as an official account (I see some say it actually is not official; it is not linked to from the CyberGames page for the game. So be careful taking this as fact...)



Still, would be good to see it. They also did a short tech look on this two years ago. It's a custom engine called Cyllista Game Engine. "Let's take a look at a brief teaser demonstrating how the engine builds the game's open world and then some clips of the terrain and foliage system in action. "
 
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H . R . 2

Member
I finally finished Callisto Protocol last night, thanks, in part, to the stills from this thread.

It gets so much right visually for me. Hard to believe it’s cross-gen, Unreal Engine 4. When it originally came out, I believed it was the clearest signal of where next-gen visuals were going.

I have a new controversial opinion.

I love Insomniac. LOVE THEM.

And . . . I wish Striking Distance Studios was working on Wolverine.
this warms my heart, I am glad you did
 

SABRE220

Member
FF16 DLC looks amazing. Sadly the resolution takes a massive hit and it screams 1080p to me. Maybe its the thousands of trees it has to render in realtime, but game looks very jaggied in motion. standing still, it looks amazing.

screens credit to @Perfo
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Damn that looks gorgeous dare i say it next gen, but it seems like its got too much detail for the resolution. Frs 1.0 is also butchering the image quality, cant wait for the ps5pro version to really show off the detail.
 
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Thats because most of us were gaming on CRTs back then. I bought a tiny 720p LCD tv for my ps3 a year in, and if a game had decent AA, you didnt see shimmering or aliasing.

it's only when my brother bought a 1080p tv and castlevania came out with the shittiest of IQ with shimmering everywhere did i realize what AA was even for. It was an eye sore on larger tvs. Sony first party games did not have that issue on 1080p tvs despite being only 720p because they mostly used MLAA which was excellent.

The problem has exacerbated in recent years because of the fact that we had a huge 4x jump in pixels plus tvs went from 32 inch to 65-75 inch in size while the resolutions have remained the same as PS3 era in 60 fps modes for games like Alan Wake, Avatar, FF16, Star Wars, Immortals etc, and PS4 era in the case of FF16's DLC's 30 fps mode im playing right now.

I honestly thought we were done with shimmering and aliasing in 2016 when the PS4 pro came out. Even base PS4 games like Batman AK and DriveClub which look like shit today on 4k tvs looked fantastic on 1080p tvs because they were native res on those tvs. bigger and better tvs are basically a double edged sword.

One of the things I miss about my previous Panasonic 4K TV was that it had a specific picture mode for 1080p that would use 4 pixels of the panel per 1 of the 1080 signal. Simulated a 1080p display extremely well. You'd lose upscaling etc but it generally looked more pleasing to the eye even on a 50" TV
 

JCreasy

Member
this warms my heart, I am glad you did

It's pretty wild how fruitful all their custom tech was. The lighting and translucent flesh materials were absolutely amazing! What an incredibly talented team.

And the asset quality. OMG. I studied all that mechanical gear stuck to the walls throughout the environment. All the hardware. Every pipe and rivet. THIS is what I want for gen 9 games. Why can't all developers be as ambitious as Striking Distance!?

Also, I would be profoundly happy to hear that they are transitioning their talents to Unreal Engine 5.

That's me saying I hope we see a fully realized, gen 9, Callisto Protocol 2. And maybe they use 3Lateral this time around? I'm not sure Sony PlayStation Visual Arts is still around to support their face capturing needs.

Yes, the gameplay may need some restructuring. Drop the dodge and give me a block and parry mechanic.
 
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H . R . 2

Member
couldn't agree more. this is peak UE4 for me.
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I really can't wrap my head around the fact that CP is an UE4 game. [or AK was a heavily modified UE3 game],
goes to show that talent, passion, and vision are what sets a studio like SD apart from the others
The lighting and translucent flesh materials were absolutely amazing! What an incredibly talented team.
7D41t8F.jpeg


so good !!

the voice acting for the protaginist BLEW ME AWAY! it was the most realistic and grounded voice-acting performance since Days Gone's Deacon
Callisto-Protocol-actor-f52283e.jpg

Josh Duhamel
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
couldn't agree more. this is peak UE4 for me.
I really can't wrap my head around the fact that CP is an UE4 game. [or AK was a heavily modified UE3 game],
goes to show that talent, passion, and vision are what sets a studio like SD apart from the others

7D41t8F.jpeg


so good !!
I love this whole scene. The way its lit and shot. upside down. I swear it felt like a movie at first.

OoqOvOa.gif


57sgkRA.gif


That's me saying I hope we see a fully realized, gen 9, Callisto Protocol 2. And maybe they use 3Lateral this time around? I'm not sure Sony PlayStation Visual Arts is still around to support their face capturing needs.
Not happening. The DLC all but confirms it.

It gets so much right visually for me. Hard to believe it’s cross-gen, Unreal Engine 4. When it originally came out, I believed it was the clearest signal of where next-gen visuals were going.
I dismissed it too as cross gen trash in 2022. Big mistake. This is one of those games that came across as lame on youtube. On my tv with hdr on, you really get to appreciate the visual fidelity.

BTW, this is what the game looks like on last gen consoles. it was clearly built on next gen consoles and ported down.

EywW1Ei.jpeg


The detail is completely absent on around half of the assets in the world. Sometimes, the other half that do look somewhat comparable to next gen versions fail to load for up to 15 seconds every time you enter a room. to make matters worse, the xbox one version runs at 21 fps during combat sections. thats the average. the ps4 version at least manages 30 fps more consistently. this is one of those games you see side by side and think, ok another cross gen trash, but you dont realize just how much detail youtube is stripping out of the next gen versions. youtube also hides the lower resolutions of these games.

i think callisto, alan wake 2, avatar and to a lesser extent spiderman 2 all suffered from poor youtube compression. it leaves out half of the volumetric effects and hides most of the texture detail.

Anyway, insomniac will hit it out of the park with wolverine. they are taking 3 full years in between games which hopefully means the team wont be sidetracked by other titles. that said, i did see venom in the leaked docs slated for 2025 so you never know. But insomniac is just a better studio when it comes to combat, bosses and level design. these guys did an ok job with their first game's combat and encounter design, but insomniac has them beat.
 

JCreasy

Member
Oof! Last gen looks rough AF!

Also playing Final Transmission now. Started it up after completing the main campaign.

I saw Striking Distance is working on some Rogue-like cel shaded thing right now. I won't say it was demoralizing to see, but I was upset by that.

I want them swinging for the fences! If they're dropping Callisto Protocol, they need to pick up another IP that's just as visually ambitious. Or tell another story in the Callisto Protocol world, so we get the same art direction.

Or they can get started on an X-23 game that plays like Stellar Blade. Actually . . . give me THAT!
 
some more shots in defense of CP
[all taken in/mid-game in photo mode except for the cutscene shots]

one of the best snow deformations out there:
the storm covers your tracks after a few minutes
pyMxebW.jpeg
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sSoZ5yK.jpeg


the lighting in this game, seriously! every room and scene is photo-mode worthy:
nlXVwIn.jpeg
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iOK72Pq.jpeg
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facial animations mid-combat make the characters come alive
yvaSgYt.jpeg
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17rBXYA.jpeg

the combat, although a tad repetitive, is very smooth and robust

I understand the criticism but this game is clearly underrated and underappreciated
Everytime a game pushes the limits in graphics its hated or attacked, its weird. It’s like an agenda that doesn’t want gaming to push boundaries or advance past “its just a video game” in any direction. TLOU 2 attacked, The Order 1886 attacked, Callisto Protocol, HFW attacked. All pushed boundaries, especially TLOU 2.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Everytime a game pushes the limits in graphics its hated or attacked, its weird. It’s like an agenda that doesn’t want gaming to push boundaries or advance past “its just a video game” in any direction. TLOU 2 attacked, The Order 1886 attacked, Callisto Protocol, HFW attacked. All pushed boundaries, especially TLOU 2.
Hating something is way more popular and enticing than appreciating and celebrating something. I was actually just reading comments around when avatar came out, and while I wont name names, I will anonymously quote several posts that were downplaying the shit out of the game.

That Avatar game looks like absolute ass.
It looks like that king kong game from 360. What are you all on about?
really don't find anything next gen or impressive about it.

NGL, I myself love shitting on stuff, but I try to celebrate their achievements. I have no problems discussing the flaws of spiderman 2, forza and starfield, but lets also give these games their due. The way this thread gets hard for trashing the few games that are trying to push the bar is bizarre.

P.S People were talking about the GTA6 trailer that had just come out a day before Avatar, and people were wondering if RTGI was in the trailer because it looked so good. Meanwhile Avatar came out a few hours later with RTGI, RT reflections and RT shadows on consoles even in the 60 fps mode. That alone is a remarkable achievement.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here is a great comparison of RTGI on and off in the Matrix demo. The dusk time colors disappear, the shadows disappear and even the roads which are supposed to still have rt reflections on, dont get that GI bounce lighting from the sun.

It goes from looking good to next gen when you turn on Lumen GI which could be either hardware accelerated or software lumen, but still, huge difference. I have to wonder why i dont see this big of a difference in cyberpunk when turning RT on and off. i wonder if they are using some kind of hybrid solution there.

LVeChT3.gif
 

Emet_bp

Member
Tlou2 and tlou1 dont have rt either.
In fact no Sony studio other than Insomniac has added rt this Gen. No one has come close to that.

It’s probably a photo scan.
Polyphony did in GT7. Not during racing but other than that it is everywhere. Also in cutscenes and photo mode RT is applied to the whole scene (cars + surroundings), but then framerate can go way below 30fps. They could give us another graphics mode with RT during race at dynamic resolution (probably 1200-1440p) to stay close to 60fps.
 

H . R . 2

Member
I love this whole scene. The way its lit and shot. upside down. I swear it felt like a movie at first.
TLOU1/TLOU2 inspirations were obvious in that particular scene and many others
they did a best-in-class job with the mo-cap and facial expressions too

In another news:
assassins-creed-codename-hexe-1-1024x576.jpg

Assassin’s Creed Codename Hexe Will be Linear with Open World Elements – Rumour​



I don't have high hopes for RED in terms of visuals. it's reportedly another pseudo-RPG that will probably only build slightly on their already outdated engine.
but this, this is music to my ears, hopefully, Ubi will push the visuals with HEXE or switch entirely to Snowdrop
 
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mrqs

Member
I'm trying to remember of a game that was announced pre-ps5/xbox series, and see if anyone can help me out finding what it was because I'm curious I haven't seen anything about it again.

I think it was from Square Enix/Capcom/Some big publisher from Asia.

It was about a western-looking warrior fighting against a dragon in some ruin-like place, with some grass and brown-ish tones.

It looked really good, and I'm pretty sure it was announced in 2019/2020 because I remember thinking it looked like a next-gen game.

Does anyone have any idea?
 

Rheon

Member
I'm trying to remember of a game that was announced pre-ps5/xbox series, and see if anyone can help me out finding what it was because I'm curious I haven't seen anything about it again.

I think it was from Square Enix/Capcom/Some big publisher from Asia.

It was about a western-looking warrior fighting against a dragon in some ruin-like place, with some grass and brown-ish tones.

It looked really good, and I'm pretty sure it was announced in 2019/2020 because I remember thinking it looked like a next-gen game.

Does anyone have any idea?

Sounds like Project Awakening.



It's funny because it was mentioned on just the last page.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Stellar Blade is a great example of how we have been treating next gen games so far. Games that do the bare minimum but hold 60 fps like Stellar Blade are praised while games that push visual fidelity at the cost of framerate and resolution are blasted.

Sorry, but this looks so dated. The lighting especially just feels dead. It reminds me of those PS4 era Japanese games like DMCV, Nier Automata and that Xbox One exclusive whose name i cant remember. Its like the lighting just gets absorbed by the world and has no bounce to it. you dont need ray tracing for this. plenty of games last gen had better lighting than this.



Anyway, at least DF calls it out. Wish gamers were able to see the difference in quality between games like this and Callisto/AW2/Avatar/Star wars etc.
 

JCreasy

Member
Crazy enough, I keep thinking about Stellar Blade 2, even though the first one isn't out yet.

It would be great to see them jump to Unreal Engine 5 and push the visuals. Stellar Blade 1 can be that foundational piece that establishes the franchise. Now they can challenge themselves.

Think of the visual leap between Hellblade 1 & 2. It's a compelling opportunity that Shift Up has to be considering. Early signals are that this thing is going to sell well.
 

Fbh

Member
Stellar Blade is a great example of how we have been treating next gen games so far. Games that do the bare minimum but hold 60 fps like Stellar Blade are praised while games that push visual fidelity at the cost of framerate and resolution are blasted.

Sorry, but this looks so dated. The lighting especially just feels dead. It reminds me of those PS4 era Japanese games like DMCV, Nier Automata and that Xbox One exclusive whose name i cant remember. Its like the lighting just gets absorbed by the world and has no bounce to it. you dont need ray tracing for this. plenty of games last gen had better lighting than this.



Anyway, at least DF calls it out. Wish gamers were able to see the difference in quality between games like this and Callisto/AW2/Avatar/Star wars etc.


I think it looks great, I particularly agree with the point he makes around the 5 min mark in the video where he basically says how this is a good example of how good art direction can elevate the presentation without the need to push the technical side of things to a point that affects performance. Also the animations seem pretty nice too for the most part.

It's not that I don't see how AW2 or Avatar look better, I just don't think the difference is big enough to give up 60fps (or play at 60fps with horrible IQ).
Go play the demo of this in performance or balanced mode, then play it in the quality mode. I don't see how the game would be better if it had ray traced lighting but was limited to 30fps (and probably worse IQ than the current quality mode)
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think it looks great, I particularly agree with the point he makes around the 5 min mark in the video where he basically says how this is a good example of how good art direction can elevate the presentation without the need to push the technical side of things to a point that affects performance. Also the animations seem pretty nice too for the most part.

It's not that I don't see how AW2 or Avatar look better, I just don't think the difference is big enough to give up 60fps (or play at 60fps with horrible IQ).
Go play the demo of this in performance or balanced mode, then play it in the quality mode. I don't see how the game would be better if it had ray traced lighting but was limited to 30fps (and probably worse IQ than the current quality mode)
I think art direction is a great excuse for people who dont want to closely scrutinize why a game doesnt look as good as it should. I said the game looks like a japanese ps4 era game because it looks dated. everything about it looks dated. The flat lighting. the low res buildings. the barren worlds.

If devs want to make a 60 fps game with dated visuals. Thats perfectly fine. If gamers want to play last gen looking titles at 60 fps. thats also fine. I dont even have issues with DF waving away the dated look tbh. he finds the game attractive. Good for him.

I was mostly talking about how we simply dont understand that next gen effects come at a cost. And from the existential crisis this board goes through every few weeks in the form of constant threads about how this gen hasnt really started or how graphics have stagnated, it's clear that gamers on this very board want the medium pushed. But in the same breath they also want 60 fps games. Then they celebrate this game which is polished but completely underwhelming in every other area.

I feel bad for devs who go out of their way to research tech like RTGI, nanite, mesh shaders, and artists who painstakingly build insanely detailed models and textures aimed at extracting the most out of these $400 consoles, and are trashed because they had to settle for 30 fps.

I think we are sending the wrong message to these devs after complaining about 3 years of cross gen games.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont like how the FF16 DLC doesnt have a lot of expensive looking cutscenes. The budget has clearly been cut but there are still moments where it looks damn near CG in cutscenes. Granted FF7 Rebirth also looks amazing in cutscenes thanks to incredibly high quality hero lighting on every character, but there is just something about how FF16 lights its scenes. They also use hero lighting which goes away after the cutscene ends, but its not overly bright like in FF7 Rebirth, and it just adds this very moody look you would see in a ridley scott or a david fincher movie.

This is one game that has incredible art direction while also pushing visual fidelity.

GL4OMy-XMAA6FX0


GL4OMy9XMAAklXf


This scene reminded me of this gorgeously lit scene at night from the base game. So many other games would just hero lighting everywhere and while these guys also added hero lighting, they made sure to use the light from that lamp instead of artificial lighting with the moon doubling as a sun. What a beautiful looking game.

F2An-WsWUAIU6UO
 

Flabagast

Member
I dont like how the FF16 DLC doesnt have a lot of expensive looking cutscenes. The budget has clearly been cut but there are still moments where it looks damn near CG in cutscenes. Granted FF7 Rebirth also looks amazing in cutscenes thanks to incredibly high quality hero lighting on every character, but there is just something about how FF16 lights its scenes. They also use hero lighting which goes away after the cutscene ends, but its not overly bright like in FF7 Rebirth, and it just adds this very moody look you would see in a ridley scott or a david fincher movie.

This is one game that has incredible art direction while also pushing visual fidelity.

GL4OMy-XMAA6FX0


GL4OMy9XMAAklXf


This scene reminded me of this gorgeously lit scene at night from the base game. So many other games would just hero lighting everywhere and while these guys also added hero lighting, they made sure to use the light from that lamp instead of artificial lighting with the moon doubling as a sun. What a beautiful looking game.

F2An-WsWUAIU6UO
Lighting and material quality must be in the top 3 of games ever released, I hope they'll stick with this engine
 

Fbh

Member
I was mostly talking about how we simply dont understand that next gen effects come at a cost. And from the existential crisis this board goes through every few weeks in the form of constant threads about how this gen hasnt really started or how graphics have stagnated, it's clear that gamers on this very board want the medium pushed. But in the same breath they also want 60 fps games. Then they celebrate this game which is polished but completely underwhelming in every other area.

I feel bad for devs who go out of their way to research tech like RTGI, nanite, mesh shaders, and artists who painstakingly build insanely detailed models and textures aimed at extracting the most out of these $400 consoles, and are trashed because they had to settle for 30 fps.

I think we are sending the wrong message to these devs after complaining about 3 years of cross gen games.

I agree some people are ignorant or unrealistic in their expectations. Some people want insane next gen graphics but also 60fps at high resolutions which is unrealistic to expect from these 3+ years old $400-500 boxes.
It comes down to personal preference but I think a game focusing on providing good performance while maintaining decent IQ is just as valid and next gen as a game focusing entirely on graphics at 30fps. Better graphics isn't pushing the medium forward anymore than normalizing decent performance IMO.

That's why I celebrate a game like Stellar Blade, because it does exactly what I want. It looks like a good looking last gen game while running with solid performance and decent IQ. I'll take something like this any day over something like FFXVI or Alan Wake 2 which makes you choose between horrible IQ or 30fps while not providing any new or "next gen" gameplay either.
I mean fuck the town they show in the digital Foundry video at 8:22 already looks more expansive and interesting than any town in FFXVI which mostly relies on small Ps3 era locations with a few NPC's standing around
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I agree some people are ignorant or unrealistic in their expectations. Some people want insane next gen graphics but also 60fps at high resolutions which is unrealistic to expect from these 3+ years old $400-500 boxes.
It comes down to personal preference but I think a game focusing on providing good performance while maintaining decent IQ is just as valid and next gen as a game focusing entirely on graphics at 30fps. Better graphics isn't pushing the medium forward anymore than normalizing decent performance IMO.
The problem with pushing performance over graphics is stuff like this:


This was posted earlier today mere hours after i posted about gaf constantly having an existential crisis over graphics not improving. Clearly people want more than just 60 fps with last gen graphics. But unlike you, they dont realize that comes at a cost.
That's why I celebrate a game like Stellar Blade, because it does exactly what I want. It looks like a good looking last gen game while running with solid performance and decent IQ. I'll take something like this any day over something like FFXVI or Alan Wake 2 which makes you choose between horrible IQ or 30fps while not providing any new or "next gen" gameplay either.
I mean fuck the town they show in the digital Foundry video at 8:22 already looks more expansive and interesting than any town in FFXVI which mostly relies on small Ps3 era locations with a few NPC's standing around
Regarding Alan Wake 2, the game has very little combat and relies upon its atmosphere and setting to tell the story. If the game was combat heavy like the first then sure, i would understand the need for 60 fps, but 90% of the time you are just exploring the world and id argue that is where the next gen-ness comes from for what is effectively an adventure game.

FF16's towns look like PS3 towns but the next gen gameplay comes in the form of Eikon battles. I have hated how devs simply left those big epic setpieces behind when they moved from the PS3 to the PS4 and it was great to see a dev finally go back to those big setpieces and then take em up a notch or 2. Even the GOW3's Cronos fight doesnt hold a candle to some of the shit you see in FF16's titan battles.
 

Lethal01

Member
Everytime a game pushes the limits in graphics its hated or attacked, its weird. It’s like an agenda that doesn’t want gaming to push boundaries or advance past “its just a video game” in any direction. TLOU 2 attacked, The Order 1886 attacked, Callisto Protocol, HFW attacked. All pushed boundaries, especially TLOU 2.

Nah sadly games that pusnh graphics often happen to be lacking compared to those taht don't, Sad trend. Games that push graphics are mostly neat little previws of thee kind of graphics you will get from worthwhile gmaes in 3~8 years
 
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H . R . 2

Member
GOTHIC REMAKE
[source: DSOgaming]

looks good [except for the muddy ground textures ] but nothing beats/matches BP remakes' level of quality and fidelity

Gothic-1-Remake-new-screenshots-2.jpg
Gothic-1-Remake-new-screenshots-1.jpg


Gothic-1-Remake-new-screenshots-3.jpg
Gothic-1-Remake-new-screenshots-4.jpg
Gothic-1-Remake-new-screenshots-6.jpg
 
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GymWolf

Member
Everytime a game pushes the limits in graphics its hated or attacked, its weird. It’s like an agenda that doesn’t want gaming to push boundaries or advance past “its just a video game” in any direction. TLOU 2 attacked, The Order 1886 attacked, Callisto Protocol, HFW attacked. All pushed boundaries, especially TLOU 2.
Nah, callisto and the order are just bad games, especially callisto, don't put it together with tlou and horizon, cmon.

The trashing and bashing was super deserved.

We can still praise them for the graphic in this topic if they deserve.
 
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H . R . 2

Member
Nah, callisto and the order are just bad games, especially callisto, don't put it together with tlou and horizon, cmon.

The trashing and bashing was super deserved.

We can still praise them for the graphic in this topic if they deserve.


the combat or level design in those 2 games might have been rather limited and even at times rather repetitive and static,
but what these two games lack in the variety of those combat mechanics they make up in quality.

the shooting in the Order 1886 or the CQC in CP are best-in-class and second to none. the level of quality and polish in the animation department is undeniable.
playing down and disparaging the level of quality studios such as SD or RAD or Evolution achieved with their games is exactly the kind of
hypocritical consumer behaviour that leads to the closure of these talented studios, studios that we might never have the likes of in the future, especially in the current state of the industry and under poor managements.

the reason I have always supported these studios is that gameplay is something that can always be fixed with proper feedback from the players.
However, the kind of visual fidelity, technical prowess and art direction you see in games like DC, AK, The Order, Ryse, Crysis, and Callisto Protocol
is not something that a studio can achieve by accident, it requires a great deal of passion and talent, a clear vision, great art directors
and cinematographers ... animators, that's why many studios like 343 are not capable of saving their games' art direction
and visuals/animations / mechanics even after receiving massive amounts of feedback from the players
 
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GymWolf

Member
the combat or level design in those 2 games might have been rather limited and even at times rather repetitive and static,
but what these two games lack in the variety of those combat mechanics they make up in quality.

the shooting in the Order 1886 or the CQC in CP are best-in-class and second to none. the level of quality and polish in the animation department is undeniable.
playing down and disparaging the level of quality studios such as SD or RAD or Evolution achieved with their games is exactly the kind of
hypocritical consumer behaviour that leads to the closure of these talented studios, studios that we might never have the likes of in the future, especially in the current state of the industry and under poor managements.

the reason I have always supported these studios is that gameplay is something that can always be fixed with proper feedback from the players.
However, the kind of visual fidelity, technical prowess and art direction you see in games like DC, AK, The Order, Ryse, Crysis, and Callisto Protocol
is not something that a studio can achieve by accident, it requires a great deal of passion and talent, a clear vision, great art directors
and cinematographers ... animators, that's why many studios like 343 are not capable of saving their games' art direction
and visuals/animations / mechanics even after receiving massive amounts of feedback from the players
Lmao no, it's fucking not and it's not even close, and i'm a dude that can play and praise a genre that i fucking hate if the gunplay is good enough, darktide and helldivers 2 being the last 2 recent examples.

The order had good shooting but the shooting in callisto is really whatever, same for the gore compared to the best.

The games were bad and they deserve the trashing, especially callisto, full stop.


Post all the pics you want, the graphic is the only salvageable point of these trash ass games.
 
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H . R . 2

Member
Lmao no, it's fucking not and it's not even close, and i'm a dude that can play and praise a genre that i fucking hate if the gunplay is good enough, darktide and helldivers 2 being the last 2 recent examples.

The order had good shooting but the shooting in callisto is really whatever, same for the gore compared to the best.

The games were bad and they deserve the trashing, especially callisto, full stop.


Post all the pics you want, the graphic is the only salvageable point of these trash ass games.
the "full stop" really convinced me

it's ok, it's your opinion against mine
 

GymWolf

Member
the "full stop" really convinced me

it's ok, it's your opinion against mine


We probably have different meanings of what constitute good gunplay, hell lately i saw many gaffers saying that fucking fallout 4 has good gunplay because they are so used to dogshit combat in bethesda titles so fuck me sideways dude :lollipop_squinting:
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Another day another thread on gaf about next gen. They are all as obsessed with next gen graphics as we are lol.


So, what do you guys think? Has anything wowed you yet this generation?

  • Returnal was the first moment for me. Mostly because of the audio design and dual sense implementation mixed with the insane atmosphere. Just thick with fog and particle effects. At least the first couple of levels, the rest felt comfortably last gen.
  • Ratchet had some wow moments. The first city, the portal setpieces and blizar prime.
  • Aloy in horizon FW still blows me away every time i go back to it. The way she's lit is so beautiful. the clouds in the DLC were a legit wow moment.
  • Spiderman 2 when sandman throws you half way across the city.
  • The zipping setpiece in Star Wars jedi survivor was very holy shit worthy.
  • Every single Eikon Fight in FF16. Especially the titan and bahamut fights.
  • Lastly, Avatar's opening shot when you first enter pandora. Probably the only time ive said wow out loud instead of just thinking it. it was my KZSF moment of this gen. So glad they kept it till the game's release. Amazing to experience it in 4k hdr instead of youtube compressed feeds.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
We probably have different meanings of what constitute good gunplay, hell lately i saw many gaffers saying that fucking fallout 4 has good gunplay because they are so used to dogshit combat in bethesda titles so fuck me sideways dude :lollipop_squinting:
I played Fallout 4 exclusively in VATS lol id say it has great gunplay for a turn based shooter. But yeah, the realtime stuff didnt do much for me. I was coming off of Destiny and i was like wtf is this clunky trash and switched to VATS only and created a build around it. Had a blast seeing enemies die in unique ways thanks to different perks and VATS systems.

I will give realtime shooting a shot this weekend, just bought it. But i do remember coming up some insane weapon designs and i suspect it might be fun to shoot them. Sometimes it just comes down to weapon variety, something so many modern shooters, including starfield, lack. So maybe thats where people found the fun. Compared to the Order it has a lot more guns and variety for sure.
 

GymWolf

Member
My nextgen stardards are super high so no.

But if i have to say something with a gun pointed to my dick:

Zelda tokt giving you the power to break the game, some people love to have classic puzzles with a fixed solution but bending the game systems and the game still works? Impressive.

Hfw for having all the npcs as detailed as the main protagonist, best digital acting compared to any open world games (by a landslide) and 80% of more focused games, and having the best chitchat tech in the business (when you ask question to npcs), and nothing of that detracted the devs from also putting a fuckload of new content in the game, yes i'm looking at you zelda tokt and dogma2.

The gore system in dead island 2, still not perfect but eons better than everything else unless you absolutely love the more realistic, gritty style of tlou2\rdr2 (more realistic but way more limited).
Honorable mention for the gore in dead space remake, another game that absolutely massacre callisto, it was such a palate cleanser.

I played Fallout 4 exclusively in VATS lol id say it has great gunplay for a turn based shooter. But yeah, the realtime stuff didnt do much for me. I was coming off of Destiny and i was like wtf is this clunky trash and switched to VATS only and created a build around it. Had a blast seeing enemies die in unique ways thanks to different perks and VATS systems.

I will give realtime shooting a shot this weekend, just bought it. But i do remember coming up some insane weapon designs and i suspect it might be fun to shoot them. Sometimes it just comes down to weapon variety, something so many modern shooters, including starfield, lack. So maybe thats where people found the fun. Compared to the Order it has a lot more guns and variety for sure.
Vats is the only way to enjoy the shooting in that game, yes, but i would not say it has great gunplay even in that case, it is just fun to have infinite bullet time with decent gore (btw the game doesn't turn into a turn based shooter just because you use vats, it still remain a real time shooter exactly like max payne doesn't turn into another genre when you use bullet time)

In real time enemies don't react to being hit except for the killing hit, i'm gonna sideeye whoever enjoy shooting in real time in that game almost as much as i sideeye people thinking that callisto is pinnacle of anything.
But you have so many redflags already that one more or less is trivial in the overall count:lollipop_squinting:

Stiff is the word that better describe fallout gunplay.

The order gunplay absolutely massacre fallout gunplay and even if it has less weapons, one of the good things about the order was that every single weapon felt unique to use, fallout has so many samey weapons and 384842737383958 different type of ammo that everything blur after a while.

I would buy a sequel of the order made by a capable team.
 
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Fbh

Member
The problem with pushing performance over graphics is stuff like this:


This was posted earlier today mere hours after i posted about gaf constantly having an existential crisis over graphics not improving. Clearly people want more than just 60 fps with last gen graphics. But unlike you, they dont realize that comes at a cost.

Regarding Alan Wake 2, the game has very little combat and relies upon its atmosphere and setting to tell the story. If the game was combat heavy like the first then sure, i would understand the need for 60 fps, but 90% of the time you are just exploring the world and id argue that is where the next gen-ness comes from for what is effectively an adventure game.

FF16's towns look like PS3 towns but the next gen gameplay comes in the form of Eikon battles. I have hated how devs simply left those big epic setpieces behind when they moved from the PS3 to the PS4 and it was great to see a dev finally go back to those big setpieces and then take em up a notch or 2. Even the GOW3's Cronos fight doesnt hold a candle to some of the shit you see in FF16's titan battles.

There will always be people complaining because not everyone has the same priorities. The moment we move away from 60fps into most games being graphics focused 30fps experiences you'll see threads popping up complaining about performance. There's a pretty even split in preferences on GAF (and I'm sure the performance mode would have convinced some more people if Square didn't somehow get 1150p to look like 800p).

As for Alan Wake 2 I guess I can see the point. It's indeed more of an atmospheric story heavy game so pushing visuals as much as possible at 30fps can make sense. The 30fps will still make it look a bit choppy but it's not really a game where you need super responsive controls.

FF16 I don't know, nothing about it felt next gen to me. Devs moving away from the big style over substance boss fights on Ps4 felt more like a design decision than some technical limitation. The one studio that consistently makes these sort of fights, Platinum, has mostly been stuck on ancient Nintendo hardware and they don't have FF budget anyway.
The parts of the Eikon battles where you actually fight are nothing special, they are like any boss fight in DMCV or Bayonetta 2 except with better graphics and worse combat. The rest is just cool looking QTE's and on rails shooting sequences.
I thought the boss battles in 7 remake did a much better job of looking cool while still actually being interesting to fight.
 

GymWolf

Member
Is it just me or does Stalker have a very last gen Metro exodus look to it?

Doesnt look anywhere close to unrecord and other UE5 bodycam shooter games we have seen from indie devs with similar settings. This is supposed to be a UE5 game with nanite and lumen.


The game has been in a downgrade spiral for a while dude.

Poor dudes probably have their mind on the war more than getting on par with the reveal.

And i wasn't even that impressed with the reveal tbh.
 

Lethal01

Member
The game has been in a downgrade spiral for a while dude.

Poor dudes probably have their mind on the war more than getting on par with the reveal.

And i wasn't even that impressed with the reveal tbh.

So, what you are saying is this is another case of those gosh damn lazy devs.
 
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