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[driver116]

I suspect the MP was native 1080p at the start and they implemented this technique to get it to 60FPS.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Sometimes its best to just look at what you see on the screen and decide whether you think it looks good or not.

It looks good to me, most next gen stuff does.

 

[darkwing]

Sometimes I despair of this place.

It couldn't be a clearer explanation. and the technique itself is very impressive.

yeah, very interesting technique , "history pixels"

 

[Marvel]

Good answers and the game looks fucking fine.

 

[Radec]

Im surprised they even had to explain this stuff to the public.

 

[stryke]

interesting to hear them discuss this at GDC, is this the first game using this technique?

Very interesting stuff would love to see the tech talk for GDC .
Hope they put it online so everyone can see it .

The presentation slides will be shared on the Guerrilla Games Publications page after the conference.

.

 

[darkwing]

.

can't wait to see the slides!

 

[perineumlick]

It still sounds like they were being intentionally misleading, but I found the explanation fascinating. That's some neat tech. They probably should have just came out with this before the game launched.

They probably had no idea that The Resolution Wars would lead to so much bloodshed.

 

[III-V]

Hopefully they have some slides to show off at GDC explaining the % benefit verses native 1080p, and possibly images upscaled from lower resolution.

Like the article states, the idea has been around, but I think this application is a first. I imagine this technique will get more advanced from here, possibly randomly selecting the predicted pixels instead of the vertical interlace style. This would eliminate the thin lines they mentioned.

 

[Sweep14]

How about you both read the first paragraph in my quote.
"KILLZONE SHADOW FALL’s single and multiplayer modes both run at 1080p."

Ans this is correct...!

 

[EL CUCO]

What sorcery is this?

Appreciate GG explaining it. I'd love to see how this technique advances.

Im surprised they even had to explain this stuff to the public.

Seems like they're really listening. I know I asked Michiel v.d. Leeuw on twitter if they could elaborate on their technique, I'm sure I wasn't the only one. He replied this morning with the link to this on their page.

That deserves respect.

 

[m@cross]

Refreshing approach to this type of PR situation, good job GG.

 

[djplaeskool]

Actually looking forward to the info from GDC.
I suspect it will be on par with last year's FOX Engine presentation

 

[GHG]

Im surprised they even had to explain this stuff to the public.

The thing is, they shouldn't have to if not for the over-obsessive pixel counting ninjas out there. The fact that it took the community this long to figure out they were using unorthodox methods is testament to their work here.

 

[stryke]

can't wait to see the slides!

lol I actually didn't intend to quote you but whatever

 

[madmackem]

Good read, wonder if it will be a technique used in the future, maybe on xboxone if they are still struggling with 1080p as this looks way better than 720 p being up scaled.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Guerilla going beyond Remedy's Alan Wake explanations.

 

[Alienous]

Sometimes I despair of this place.

It couldn't be a clearer explanation. and the technique itself is very impressive.

Sad that they can pull this off (reminds me if Wipeout dynamic rez) but all the warriors want to do is take potshots from the bushes misterxmedia style.

It's native 1080p on a technicality, it seems.

Calling it "native 1080p" even after the processing seems purposefully misleading. "Well, it's technically 1080p, even if it doesn't achieve the same quality").

 

[Igo]

The game is not scaled and they are applying post-processing to a 1080p framebuffer which is then projected to your screen. They have every right to define their game as native 1080p if they wish.

That's fine, but people will still be curious as to why the IQ is noticeably worse in the multiplayer when the resolutions are supposedly the same.

 

[CouchMaster]

The vertical resolution isn't even defined in a 1080p image, because of different aspect ratios. When you say 1080p by convention it's implied that you talk about 1920x1080.

I ask because PD said GT5 is native 1080p, which is true since it displays 1080 horizontal lines per frame without upscaling, but its not 1920x1080. Same with Wipeout which drops horizontal res to maintain 60fps, but you can still call it 1080p60fps.

 

[blastprocessor]

I'm sure a similar technique is also used on TV's to generate extra frames for 120hz TV's. It's also uses motion vectors to predict where the pixel from the previous frame might be on the next frame.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Surprisingly easy to follow... And at the same time I can't say I've ever really seen this before. Including the frank explanation. Cool.

 

[perineumlick]

The main point here is that we rightfully give developers shit if they don't give us enough information or even mislead us. Conversely, we should appreciate when they respond to Internet outrage, because this encourages them to take notice and to respond to the community in the future.

Exactly. Now of course some won't be satisfied with this, and will keep the storm brewing, but in my eyes they've been properly taken to task, and explained themselves in a concise, straightforward manner that effectively ends the debate.

 

[Terbinator]

The thing is, they shouldn't have to if not for the over-obsessive pixel counting ninjas out there. The fact that it took the community this long to figure out they were using unorthodox methods is testament to their work here.

Why do people keep saying this? The community knew there was something off from the get-go between SP & MP. The only thing is you can't keep beating a dead-horse if the dev is telling you 1080p as you then look like a sore Xbot.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

They should add "PS: get the fuck over it already"

 

[Leb]

As someone with a strong interest in the computer sciences, this is a pretty fascinating technique and I am very much looking forward to their talk at GDC.

As a gamer, though, it's hard to ignore the impact this technique has on the IQ and it's disappointing that this kind of technical trickery is already proving necessary so early in the lifetime of the console, and it's further disappointing that even with the technique, they're still falling short of 60 fps.

 

[stryke]

Quite nice of them to do that. I hope to see more of these kind of techniques be applied in games focusing on performance in the future.

While the technique is quite novel, it appears it didn't really fulfill what they were supposed to achieve, which was consistent 60fps. But as you said, hopefully in the future it can accomplish this.

 

[Paz]

Sounds like a slippery explanation.

I would be keen to understand why you think this, not a jab just very curious. I thought it was one of the most literal & clear explanations of how rendering works, and how their specific pipeline works.

 

[Saty]

Is it still better than native 900p? I can see people seeing this technique as a move to cling to saying a game still technically runs at '1080' and that it can promote laziness by devs that wish to target 1080p.

 

[velociraptor]

I just played a few games of KZSF MP.

Yep, looks 1080p to me.

Whatever they've done is certainly better than dropping the entire resolution to 720p simply to gain 60FPS.

If they had no told us about this resolution fiasco I would have been non the wiser.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Honestly, I thought the game looked gorgeous in mp and thought it was 1080p. Hell, seems like everyone did.

I honestly don't have a huge problem with this method if it saves devs hardware power that they could put into frames or up the res that they wouldnt be able to get otherwise.

 

[Man]

Everyone knows what to expect when people ask 'native resolution' so original statements from last year were sneaky.

But this is a quality answer.

 

[Y2Kev]

They should have said

They are giving us super HDR lighting so it's like TWO frame buffers so it's really like 2160p

 

[Stare-Bear]

Look, they could have done it the Microsoft way and put a sharpening filter and crushed blacks on a 720p image and call it a day...

 

[Bundy]

As someone with a strong interest in the computer sciences, this is a pretty fascinating technique and I am very much looking forward to their talk at GDC.

Yeah, can't wait to see their next IP (open-world RPG maybe), without the urge to release the game at the console launch. Game will look awesome ^_^

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Sounds very complicated.

 

[benny_a]

Everyone knows what to expect when people ask 'native resolution' so original statements from last year were sneaky.

But this is a quality answer.

Yup. When I hear native 1080p, I think of the engine rendering every pixel of the 1920x1080px. This temporal re-projection is still cool, but it's not what I consider native.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

As someone with a strong interest in the computer sciences, this is a pretty fascinating technique and I am very much looking forward to their talk at GDC.

As a gamer, though, it's hard to ignore the impact this technique has on the IQ and it's disappointing that this kind of technical trickery is already proving necessary so early in the lifetime of the console, and it's further disappointing that even with the technique, they're still falling short of 60 fps.

Well real time gfx is all about technical trickery .
To me this technique looks better than normal upscaling so if devs have to start dropoing res would love for them to use this technique since it has better IQ .

 

[zzz79]

Still calling it native 1080p, did GG had some lessons from MS at spinning?

This!

So The Order devs could also say the game is native 1080p including balck bars ...

 

[rvy]

GDC will be very interesting. Guerrila seem to have some new tricks up their sleeve. Seeing as Sony studios seem to share tech, I wouldn't be surprised if more games end up using this technique.

 

[GHG]

That's fine, but people will still be curious as to why the IQ is noticeably worse in the multiplayer when the resolutions are supposedly the same.

Its explained in the OP.

In most cases, MP IQ will look worse than SP, especially where 60fps is being targeted. Some devs chose to drop the resolution and scale it, some chose to drop the resolution of textures, some chose to drop the resolution of other aspects within the rendering pipeline. Some will even do all of the above.

 

[ElTorro]

Is it still better than native 900p?

Depends on the situation. When the scene is static, the resulting image looks exactly the same as a natively rendered 1080p image. When things are moving on screen, the technique will lead to ghosting and blur, probably depending on the speed of movement (and thus the degree of difference between two frames). It also demands more computational effort. However, textures look crisper compared to upscaling.

 

[Seanspeed]

Look, they could have done it the Microsoft way and put a sharpening filter and crushed blacks on a 720p image and call it a day...

Was this really necessary?

 

[benny_a]

So The Order devs could also say the game is native 1080p including balck bars ...

They could. As long as they include what aspect ratio it uses, just as the majority of Blu-ray movies does.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Sounds very complicated.

Technology often is.

 

[velociraptor]

Is it still better than native 900p? I can see people seeing this technique as a move to cling to saying a game still technically runs at '1080' and that it can promote laziness by devs that wish to target 1080p.

With 900p you're upscaling the entire image. I imagine it would look worse.

 

[Alienous]

I would be keen to understand why you think this, not a jab just very curious. I thought it was one of the most literal & clear explanations of how rendering works, and how their specific pipeline works.

Specifically referring to it as, still, native 1080p. According to their explanation it abides by the definition, but it's evident that it doesn't give the same quality as what we typically refer to as 'native 1080p'.

So I have no doubt they were being slippery when they were asked if the multiplayer was 1080p. Like when food manufacturers can put the minumum possible amount of meat into a product to call it that meat. It comes across, to me, as a loophole that they exploited to mislead people, on purpose.

 

[JonathanPower]

It's native 1080p on a technicality, it seems.

Calling it "native 1080p" even after the processing seems purposefully misleading. "Well, it's technically 1080p, even if it doesn't achieve the same quality").

Only the multiplayer thought. The single player is indeed native 1080p.

 

[UnrealEck]

As a gamer, though, it's hard to ignore the impact this technique has on the IQ and it's disappointing that this kind of technical trickery is already proving necessary so early in the lifetime of the console, and it's further disappointing that even with the technique, they're still falling short of 60 fps.

I agree with you on both points and some people are perhaps overlooking these, especially the second point.

 

[chadskin]

This!

So The Order devs could also say the game is native 1080p including balck bars ...

As long as it's internally rendered at 1080p including black bars (which I think The Order is), then yes, The Order is native 1080p.