Warriors of Rock was meh IMO, and next to the awesome RB3 it was awful. That fucking single player campaign had the stupidest gimmicks. I still don't think I ever understood that shit where you had to get like 70 stars in one song or whatever. The setlist was good I guess but I like 3's, WT's, and every single RB's better. These games did temporarily go out on a good note with RB3 though.
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"Guitar Hero Live" Announced
- Thread starter killercow
- Start date
Warriors of Rock was meh IMO, and next to the awesome RB3 it was awful. That fucking single player campaign had the stupidest gimmicks. I still don't think I ever understood that shit where you had to get like 70 stars in one song or whatever. The setlist was good I guess but I like 3's, WT's, and every single RB's better. These games did temporarily go out on a good note with RB3 though.
WTs setlist was pretty shit. I didn't bother with WoR because I was playing RB3 but I'll give Acti credit for listening to the few remaining GH fans and giving them some challenging stuff they've been asking for.
matrixman92
Member
so will they have to record new footage for every dlc track that comes out?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Having the fret buttons in two rows ("strings" if you will) instead of one should make it a tiny bit more like playing a real guitar, although having only three of them per row seems like it would make it a bit easy. The more challenging parts in these games are usually when you have to quickly change your grip position back and forth between the lower four and top four buttons. Here you just have the one position, although your individual fingers will move more instead. Could be kind of cool, but I do wish it was 2x5 buttons.
The POV I really don't give a crap about, that stuff is just background noise while you're looking at what actually matters.
The POV I really don't give a crap about, that stuff is just background noise while you're looking at what actually matters.
In the "Making Of" article on Polygon they mentioned that having to move your hand up and down the neck of the guitar was a huge barrier for some people because they would lose their place and just play a long string of bad notes. A lot of people were never really able to play above Normal difficulty because of the extra button that they couldn't reach. So it created this situation where people could do songs on Normal 100% perfect, but couldn't really perform at all when they wanted to bump up the difficulty.
So that's why the long string of buttons got removed.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Wasn't that the point of having a ridge on the middle fret? So you can keep track of where you are?
Sounds like bullshit reasoning to me
Agreed. Moving up and down the fret board was the one thing that made it feel like playing an actual guitar. Now it's just going to feel like typing on a keyboard. Bah.
5x2 would've been great. 3x2 is big yawn.
toymachine
Member
No, because DLC are music videos
While I wasn't terrible at 5-button difficulties, I spent my entire time dreading and flopsweating over when that 5th button was going to come up, and pretty frequently lost combos over it. Half of this was probably due to the difficulty of shifting my hand, but part of it was just due to my anxiety over dealing with the extra button.
Even if you can accurately track your hand's position, moving your hand around adds an extra delay that makes things more unpredictable.....especially when you have to press the 1st button, then the 5th button, then go back to the 1st button in quick sequence.
If I'm playing a rhythm game, I want my finger on every button all the time. That's why you play Frequency/Amplitude with the shoulder buttons rather than fidgeting around with the face buttons.
So suffice it to say, I'm not exactly mourning the loss of the 5 fret guitar, though a more elegant solution would have been just to restrict 5-button play to the Expert Modes and let people have a Hard Mode that only needs 4 buttons. I will be curious to see how Rock Band deals with this issue.
You just have to practice.
iirc some rock band charts used the 5th fret even on normal difficulty so that people would get used to switching positions earlier.
I've been playing Expert since GH3 so I'm not 100% sure on that and maybe someone else could confirm, but I think I saw it when others were playing
And that's the better approach imo. Ease the players into using all buttons instead of giving them complicated 3/4 fret charts, because that'll only make it harder to add an additional one to the mix.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I dunno man, I don't even see why this is an issue. Either you practice to the point where you're comfortable, or you don't play. I can understand why at the beginning seeing that you have to quickly hit the fifth fret is daunting, because it is. But just like playing a real instrument, you practice so you get better. It wasn't like people got super good at RB and GH in SPITE of the controls, they just learned how to play
RB isn't going to deal with the issue because it's not an issue. There's a ridge on the third fret to solve for not looking at your hands. Legitimate question: can you type on a keyboard without staring at it?
It isn't any different, I guess. For some reason, it just seems comical to have the Hardcore Vs Casuls discussion over a game like GH and RB. It's probably just me.
I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I assure you that I'm not one of those people. I played most of the GH and RB games (I think I missed the last GH one, though) and comments like that really annoyed me too.
The Lone Courier
Member
I think its pretty cool. I got tired of the cartoony look they had going.
I bought Guitar Hero 1 at launch when it was a PS2 exclusive, and played guitar games up until Rock Band Beatles but never really got over the 5th button. I certainly improved over time, but it was just too weirdly disruptive for me. I wouldn't have really cared but it just created this situation where you were stuck either playing on a mode that was way too easy to be interesting, or a harder difficulty where I felt like I was going to be forever handicapped. It was the worst in Rock Band 1 where you pretty much had to grind songs at higher difficulties to get the currency to progress and unlock stuff in career mode.....we'd just pick the 4-5 songs that were easiest in Hard and play them again and again ("Say It Ain't So"!!).
It doesn't really surprise me that they identified the 5 frets as a stumbling block for a lot of people. Rock Band solved the progression problem by letting you progress no matter what difficulty you were performing on.
Well yeah, of course. On a keyboard your hands are in the same position on the home row almost the entire time. And obviously you don't have to hit keys in a particular rhythm, which is the real issue. I'm generally pretty good with Typing of the Dead actually.....probably because you can vary up your rhythm depending on the difficulty of each button press, speeding up or slowing down to maintain accuracy.
This. I used to suck at them but eventually you get used to it. If it helps, I usually just have the four fingers on button 2,3,4 and 5 and then use my index finger to hit green notes if necessary. That said, I think you're thinking too much that the game is just reflexively hitting the notes (in which case reflexively expecting 5 notes is pretty difficult). Learning the songs and notes is part of it too and that makes it easier to deal with 5 notes
Still, I kinda agree with border's point though and even until recently I struggled with playing 5 notes (and I've had GH for ages). A four-note hard mode and five note hard mode would have been nicer than to have (and easier to get into) than suddenly getting used to a fifth note with added difficulty
PachinkoChampBruh
Member
if you fail a song do you get kicked off the band.
New DLC, Street Corner Hero! All your favourite songs, badly played so you feel sorry for them and throw pocket change at them.
Visualante2
Member
I think Edge's next month cover makes sense now. 6 lines on the teaser page = guitar strings. They have a history of Rock Band covers but I wouldn't rule out a general "return of the music game" thing that covers both.
The game is mimicking playing a real guitar. When playing a real guitar do you have your fingers on all the strings all the time? Nope, and that's where the practicing/skill is involved.
matrixman92
Member
that sounds very limiting
I don't think I'm actually making a point, other than "Yeah this element of the game that was hard for me was identified as something that was hard for other people."
I do think people forget that this was a game played at parties by a lot of non-gamers and casual gamers and kids. The concept of "Just practice and you'll get better" doesn't really apply.
But at any rate, here's the full take from the Polygon article:
When playing a real guitar do you have your finger on the same single string all the time? To have only 1 button per fret means you are only simulating 1 string per fret.
The compromise here is that now you aren't sliding your hand up and down the neck like a "real guitar player", but you are sliding your fingers up and down within the frets to simulate playing different strings....just like a "real guitar player". Whether that's a decent tradeoff remains to be seen.
They should've just looked how Harmonix fixed this. They started using the fifth fret on easy and medium somewhere around the RB3 launch, which worked amazing. My friends and my mom who were before stuck on medium because if the issue Polygon pointed out, slowly got used to the fifth note because every difficulty now had you playing it. That's a much better solution IMO than just removing two frets and adding a second layer, which forces everyone to relearn the entire game.I don't think I'm actually making a point, other than "Yeah this element of the game that was hard for me was identified as something that was hard for other people."
I do think people forget that this was a game played at parties by a lot of non-gamers and casual gamers and kids. The concept of "Just practice and you'll get better" doesn't really apply.
But at any rate, here's the full take from the Polygon article
Yep. 100% agree. I remember my friend being surprised at the "new buttons" he had to use when we played Rock Band 3 together for the first time.
Dirtyshubb
Member
This 100%
I remember when I first got GH3 (My first entry) and for ages I just couldnt get used to hard and the extra button but I kept at it and suddenly it just clicked and I didnt have a problem switch over anymore. Of course it doesnt mean that I was perfect because I then had to master hammer ons and the sheer number of extra notes on certain songs but overall I became rather good.
As for this new guitar and the button layout, I would like to give it a go before I write it off but at face value im not 100% sold on it being better but we shall see. The sad part of course is that I will need a new guitar if I decide to buy it, already having 3 is enough for me so another isnt ideal.
I think I got used to the 5th button because I played Frets On Fire and many charts were with expert only, so I HAD to get used to it. Being a Metal fan didn't help, I guess.
Although in the beginning I played on a keyboard, which might have made me bad at chords - until I changed my controls a bit, my keyboard wouldn't work with certain key combinations at all.
Although in the beginning I played on a keyboard, which might have made me bad at chords - until I changed my controls a bit, my keyboard wouldn't work with certain key combinations at all.
ohboyherewego.jpg
RandyBobandy
Banned
Looks way too easy. Why aren't they showing the expert songs? Showing these piss easy songs ain't doing nothing for me
No you don't, but you also don't keep your fingers on the first 3 frets for an entire song (except for very rare exceptions) . You're constantly moving up and down, some songs make use of the entire range of the fretboard. Movement up and down the neck is a better imitation of playing a real guitar IMO, 2 "strings" are no more realistic than 1 at the end of the day. You'd have a point if there were 5 "strings" but it seems like you're limited to only being able to play single notes, 2 string bars and double stops with the new configuration. You can't play 3 frets on the same string, that's just nonsense.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, in no way is this new system a better representation of playing a real guitar. Maybe if it was 5x2, but the 3 fret thing is made to try to make the game more accessible. Nothing wrong with that, but you're losing something without the moving up and down the board.
This is a straight up drive-by troll post. Every time. So obnoxious.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Agreed. Honestly this is really the only huge mistake I see this game making right now as an appeal to the mainstream. I think most of the mainstream popularity of Rock Band came from the fact that it was basically karaoke where more people could participate (thus a party activity). Without that aspect, I don't know. It would make sense if they were leaning in to the hardcore crowd, but judging by the guitar redesign and track list, I don't think that's the case.
What year is it?
Delusibeta
Banned
It's fascinating how Guitar Hero, which was always the more "hardcore" (for want of a better phrase) guitar game compared to Rock Band, has now decided to throw it all away and attempt to aim at the more party audience without the thing that made Rock Band more popular with parties (multi-instrument multiplayer). Add in the tracklist looking decidedly duff and no backwards compatibility with previous DLC or guitars and you've got a game that looks like it's going to be DOA.
aygomyownroad
Member
"Why would they come to our concert just to boo us?"
Didn't expect this pic but glad its here. Has made me happier in this thread.
So many complaints from me. With only 3 buttons (6 if you include the top 3) your hand doesn't need to travel down the neck at all. Just keep your fingers on the buttons and release as you need to. Seems like there will be little challenge on higher difficulties (I will wait until it is released to see).
Not a fan of the FMV, is this the MegaCD? I was expecting a Rock Band type of creator, I spend hours making a band to call my own...
In fact just seen some of the tracklist.. I don't think I will bother now..
I will wait for Rock Band at this point, but hope they don't follow this route as I am not exactly blown away
My first one was GH3 and I was terrible, it seemed like I could never play expert and most of the people playing were already on that level, luckily it was so much fun that practicing wasnt a chore for me, I eventually got good enough on hard and then good enough to pass expert then good enough to 5 star expert songs and then good enough to 100% expert songs. It really just takes a TON of practice if you wanna get there, imo it was worth it, I went from being terrible to being one of the best if not the best in my town.
jamesinclair
Banned
No shit. They fucked up by not making a PS2 version.
Take a dump on your fans and don't be confused when they don't come running back.
I saw open strums in one of the videos
The video in the OP shows there are open strums, which is denoted by a long line. Just like the bass open strum notes in the previous Guitar Hero games.
toymachine
Member
your ps2 gimmick trolling is so old, don't reply to me please
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Rockband and Rocksmith it is.
Those janky Guitar Hero note tracks are back, LoL.
Those janky Guitar Hero note tracks are back, LoL.
I'm actually glad they aren't trying to do something that tries to mimic what Rock Band is doing. If they would have just released another full band game, I likely wouldn't have bought it and only gotten Rock Band. But since they changed up the controller with two rows and went with this FMV thing, I might actually give it a shot.
Ok, cool.
Also, my "3 fret, 2-string guitar" model doesn't really work. I forgot that you play "chords" by holding down multiple frets on the same "string".
OnionPowder
Member
Good thing Death Grips has music videos
Based on the setlist so far it seems like the music they're going for will have music videos.
The guitar is designed as 3 fret and 2 stringed but it's actually 3 stringed and 2 frets based on the gameplay video. Think of the strings as going across horizontally instead of vertically.